CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 10 (Movepool Discussion)

[Hyra]

Luck.... most of the stuff you listen takes neutral from Fire or Grass, or both, or is hit SE by one (Regirock, TTar has better SDef and starts Sandstorm).

I would vote no on everything in the current discussion besides Zap Cannon, Charge Beam, and maybe Brick Break. A Physical set with Rock Slide + Swords Dance takes out Salamence (Intimidate helps a little) and Dragonite too easily. AncientPower because it allows him to run other HP types mainly, and the potential stat boosts might be overpowering (not much of a factor though).

Also, saying no Dragon moves, just to be safe and redudant.

 

[Lil Ant]

You would rather have Curse over Dragon Dance? You would rather it gain Defense than gain Speed? So much for me trying to give it some offense without making it broken or even more bulky.

 

[Lil Ant]

I think the R/S/E fossil Pokemon are the only safe checks in my opinion. Both under sandstorm of course.

 

[User 12783]

If we gave it DD it would be special-based TTar

 

[Karrot]

Honestly, I would include neither of those (Curse and Dragon Dance). Curse simply makes it bulkier, and with superior move choices than Snorlax it may be too powerful. As for Dragon Dance, it should be within reason if it can only get a single physical STAB (either Flare Blitz or Seed Bomb/Woodhammer), but then it would lack the proper physical attacks to be useful.

Dragon Dance + Physical Rock move is, obviously, overpowed.

 

[Luck]

Luck.... most of the stuff you listen takes neutral from Fire or Grass, or both, or is hit SE by one (Regirock, TTar has better SDef and starts Sandstorm).

That could not be avoid.Frankly Poison,Rock,Fire competitive types are not that good.Flying has the best pokes among the counter but best counters have 4x weakness that woodman can take advantage.The list could have revenge killers but i didn't put any.I want to list solid defensive pokes that could multiple hits while hitting back with a stab attacks.

I try to find counters don't that take neutral dam but they aren't that much you can depend on in the metagame.

 

[Lil Ant]

Honestly, I would include neither of those (Curse and Dragon Dance). Curse simply makes it bulkier, and with superior move choices than Snorlax it may be too powerful. As for Dragon Dance, it should be within reason if it can only get a single physical STAB (either Flare Blitz or Seed Bomb/Woodhammer), but then it would lack the proper physical attacks to be useful.

Dragon Dance + Physical Rock move is, obviously, overpowed.

If you look at me and Dane's movepool you would see we have no physical Rock moves. Dragon Dance seems to give it a viable reason to be offensive without making it over powering. You guys don't mind giving it all these defensive options but soon as a balanced offensive option comes its way you all second guess it. I do agree only one or the other should be able to get chosen, not Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer though.

 

[Hyra]

This is a Special based Pokemon. The Physical STAB is already arguable better than the special STAB. Dragon Dance is arguable the best stat-up move. Giving it these and then no compensation on the Special side makes this physical. Howl should suffice in place of Dragon Dance, it's not like this guy needs speed. And if it gets Howl, it should get Growth to keep both sides equal.

 

[Luck]

If you look at me and Dane's movepool you would see we have no physical Rock moves. Dragon Dance seems to give it a viable reason to be offensive without making it over powering. You guys don't mind giving it all these defensive options but soon as a balanced offensive option comes its way you all second guess it. I do agree only one or the other should be able to get chosen, not Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer though.

I do admit i am impressed with your movepool.I try to make moveset with dragon dance and other flare blitz i had only U-turn,Return,Iron tail to work it.Thats the only movepool i could see dd as a choice.

 

[Lil Ant]

This is a Special based Pokemon. The Physical STAB is already arguable better than the special STAB. Dragon Dance is arguable the best stat-up move. Giving it these and then no compensation on the Special side makes this physical. Howl should suffice in place of Dragon Dance, it's not like this guy needs speed. And if it gets Howl, it should get Growth to keep both sides equal.

Thank you! the guy doesn't need speed, Dragon Dance boost it's Attack and Speed, no one would use Howl, but people would use Dragon Dance. YOu act like boosting it's speed would make it broken, boosting it's speed just makes the attack boost worth it. Without the speed boost no one would use the +1 attack stat up.

 

[Hyra]

Thank you! the guy doesn't need speed, Dragon Dance boost it's Attack and Speed, no one would use Howl, but people would use Dragon Dance. YOu act like boosting it's speed would make it broken, boosting it's speed just makes the attack boost worth it. Without the speed boost no one would use the +1 attack stat up.

I meant more it can sweep without speed, adding on speed is only overkill and makes this a better sweeper than it should be. I was saying Dragon Dance is too useful because of the speed.

 

[Lil Ant]

I do admit i am impressed with your movepool.I try to make moveset with dragon dance and other flare blitz i had only U-turn,Return,Iron tail to work it.Thats the only movepool i could see dd as a choice.

See!!! If you would use my movepool the here are the sets i would recommend

Dragon Dance
Flare Blitz
Seed Bomb
Double Edge

which still loses to
Armaldo
Cradilly
Gyarados
Salamence
Garchomp
Heatran
Arcanine
Crobat
Togekiss
Cresselia
Dusknoir
Weezing
Gliscor
Dragonite
Charizard
Moltres


meh probably more. i'm getting lazy = P

 

[Lil Ant]

I meant more it can sweep without speed, adding on speed is only overkill and makes this a better sweeper than it should be. I was saying Dragon Dance is too useful because of the speed.

Useful /= over powering

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Alright, since we have to decide on a level-up list of moves, I decided to mess around with one of the movepools submitted.

[B]Level-Up Moves:[/B]
- Wood Hammer (Heart Scale) 
- Flare Blitz (Heart Scale) 
- Leer 
- Growl 
- Pound 
5. Bullet Seed (Cannon) 
9. Focus Energy 
13. Ember (Cannon) 
17. Growth 
21. Leech Seed (Cannon) 
25. [B]Stun Spore[/B] 
29. [B]Ancient Power[/B] (Cannon) 
37. Energy Ball (Cannon) 
45. Will-o-Wisp
51. Flamethrower (Cannon) 
57. [B]Zap Cannon[/B] 
63. Flash Cannon (Cannon)
68. Hyper Beam (Cannon)

I mostly didn't want to change it around so much. Removed some move off the list so drop the number of attacks and added a replacement for Seed Bomb. The attacks in bold are debatable.

I've been look around the others, mostly Lil Ant since he constant talks about his ;P. In the meantime you can throw your opinions/suggestions on this one, but please make suggestions in a civilized manner.

 

[Lil Ant]

I've been look around the others, mostly Lil Ant since he constant talks about his ;P. In the meantime you can throw your opinions/suggestions on this one, but please make suggestions in a civilized manner.

= D i will bitch, rant, fuss, bicker, hell, i will do anything to promote justice for this Pokemon. I will try to make it as balanced but at the same time as versatile as ever! I should have been around when Syclant was being made, maybe some of the controversy wouldn't be going on now.

 

[Lil Ant]

Please remove Zap Cannon, throw in Tri Attack or something. Zap Cannon really and i mean really is pushing it.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Please remove Zap Cannon, throw in Tri Attack or something. Zap Cannon really and i mean really is pushing it.

Most people around seem to think Zap Cannon isn't so bad, but if I do remove it I'll replace it with Aurora Beam. Why you must ask, well it's because seeing this thing shoot some "taste the rainbow" colored, seizure inducing laser beam is probably funny and WTF enough to deserve a spot on a movepool.

 

[Lil Ant]

Most people around seem to think Zap Cannon isn't so bad, but if I do remove it I'll replace it with Aurora Beam. Why you must ask, well it's because seeing this thing shoot some "taste the rainbow" colored, seizure inducing laser beam is probably funny and WTF enough to deserve a spot on a movepool.

I actually see nothing wrong with Aurora Beam either for some reason. It seems fitting for him is a strange sense. The reason why i say Zap Cannon is so bad because it cripples and damages most of his checks. He has enough durability to spout off Zap Cannons left and right. Then Gyarados, Crobat, Charizard and company all lose the free will of switching in because the paralysis chance plus the damage from Zap Cannon just leaves them in too much debt to crawl back out of. Crobat, Charizard and Gyarados are all mostly counter because they out speed. If Zap Cannon hits them they lose the speed factor.

Crobat is a huge counter to the a bunch of Leonin sets and is probably the best counter to any non choiced itemed set. He can Haze off his stat boost. He can Whirldwind them as well. Crobat can even Taunt Leonin if he attempts to Leech Seed him. The biggest up side to Crobat being a counter is it out speeds him after a Dragon Dance and can Brave Bird Leonin back to the bits. Zap Cannon eliminates most of the Flying switch ins. 50 percent accuracy isn't lovely but it damn sure isn't worth the risk off switching into it. Just ask the Gyarados who thinks it can counter Forretress, who then Zap Cannon's Gyarados while he Taunts.

 

[The.Lost.Hylian]

I approve of Aurora Beam

 

[Urza]

yeah, an ice attack on a fire/grass type. that makes sense...how?

also, zap cannon is fine for two reasons. one, 50% accuracy. don't give it lock on, and that doesn't change. and two, 8 pp max. so even throwing around zap cannons left and right will only get you so far...i'm just sayin....

and throwing in my two cents on stat ups. curse...meh. not too worrisome to me personally. and howl, sure thing. swords dance...

as much as i dearly want this thing to be a great physical attacker...i'd say it's too much. but if people want it...then yay!! and i'm glad so many of us have recognized it should have been physical all along...

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Yeah, an ice attack on a fire/grass type. That makes sense...how?

It's a beam of multi-colored light, why it's classified as an Ice attack? Maybe it has to do with phenomenon known as "Aurora", which happens around the North and South Pole area. Gamefreak decided to slap a general statment that "Aurora Lighting = Ice" and thus that's how Aurora Beam was born.

Edit: BTW, I was merely suggesting an alternative to Zap Cannon since Lil Ant asked for it to be removed.

 

[Lil Ant]

yeah, an ice attack on a fire/grass type. that makes sense...how?

This Fire/Grass type is also a Dragon. So from there, you can ask Dragonite why Dragons get Ice type moves.

also, zap cannon is fine for two reasons. one, 50% accuracy. don't give it lock on, and that doesn't change. and two, 8 pp max. so even throwing around zap cannons left and right will only get you so far...i'm just sayin....

No, firing them left and right if you use all 8, will probably get you 3-4 hit on your counter list. 3-4 times to many to risk all those damage. 240 or 360 base power plus the paralysis.

and throwing in my two cents on stat ups. curse...meh. not too worrisome to me personally. and howl, sure thing. swords dance...

Curse isn't to worrisome? hahaha you must be joking right? Raising it's defense and attack which in turn makes it the best tank in the Metagame right now. Thanks to one, 120 Base Power moves, hell, even one of the two moves are too much to handle while raising defense, especially when Stone Edge/Rock Slide or Brave Bird/Aerial Ace are physical. The only thing reliant is probably Air Slash and Sludge Bomb.

as much as i dearly want this thing to be a great physical attacker...i'd say it's too much. but if people want it...then yay!! and i'm glad so many of us have recognized it should have been physical all along...

It won't be a pure physical attacker, it will just be a versatile Pokemon. If you want to use it as a physical attacker like me, than my hat off is to you. If you want to use it as a defensive Pokemon like Aldaron and Mekkah, my hat is off to you as well. Regardless of how much i bitch and fuss, i just want my favorite typing of Pokemon to be used in a potent way, but not to be overpowering.

 

[the_artic_one]

Flavor-wise, I really don't like aurora beam, everything that learns it currently is either water or ice.

It also breaks the tradition of "no fire type can learn ice moves".

 

[shdw_strkr]

It's a beam of multi-colored light, why it's classified as an Ice attack? Maybe it has to do with Northern Lights which are found in the polar regions of the world, thus Gamefreak slapping a general statment that "Aurora Lighting = Ice"

The Aurora phenomenon also accurs in the antarctic, so calling it the nortern lights isn't very acurate.

Anyway, on topic, i don't think it quite fits on him, and i keep thinking of the movie "Little Nicky" when I think about it.

 

[Lil Ant]

Leonin's exclusive move so many people can stop ranting about Energy Ball
[ Chloor - Ray ]
Chloray \ Grass Type \ 100 ATT \ 95 ACC \ 20 PP \ 20% Effect
Fires away a ray of heated grass. Can also stun, burn or confuse.