CAP 9 CAP 9 - Part 15a - Movepool Discussion/Submissions

[The Other Doug]

I worked as hard as possible to make a great movepool for our Evil Narwhal so here's my Final Submission:
(I've Bolded the most notable competitive moves.)
Level Up Moves:

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Heart Scale: Megahorn
Heart Scale: Moonlight
4. Present
7. Horn Attack
11. Pursuit
14. Rapid Spin
17. Fake Out
21. Bubblebeam
27. Stockpile
27. Spit Up
31. Encore
34. Dive
37. Bone Rush
46. Drill Peck
54. Crunch
62. Horn Drill

Level Up Explanation:

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Crunch and Pursuit are Colossoil's main STAB moves, Bone Rush can break through Substitute, Moonlight is an OK method of healing on a weather team, Stockpile can be used to raise Colossoil's defense, and Fake Out, Encore, and Rapid Spin help Colossoil "stop the secondary." Megahorn & Drill Peck can help Colossoil against bulky grass types as well as bulky fighting types.

Egg Moves:

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Egg Group (Mineral)
Rock Blast (Steelix, Golem)
Fire Blast (Steelix, Golem)
Ice Beam (Glalie, Froslass)
Disable (Glaie, Froslass)
Slam (Steelix, Sudowoodo)
Magnet Bomb (Probopass)
Fire Fang (Steelix)
Magnitude (Golem, Probopass, Sudowoodo)
Rock Slide (Golem Steelix, Suddowoodo, Probopass)
Ice Shard (Glalie, Froslass))
Stone Edge (Golem Steelix, Suddowoodo, Probopass)
Self Destruct (Golem, Sudowoodo)

Legal combinations (all others are illegal):
Fire Blast + Rock Blast
Fire Blast + Fire Fang
Fire Blast + Self Destruct
Rock Blast + Self Destruct
Ice Beam + Ice Shard
Ice Beam + Disable
Ice Shard + Disable
Magnitude + Fire Blast
Magnitude + Self Destruct
Rock Slide/Stone Edge + Fire Fang
Rock Slide/Stone Edge + Rock Blast
Rock Slide/Stone Edge + Magnitude
Rock Slide/Stone Edge + Self Destruct

TMs/HMs

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TM01: Focus Punch
TM02: Dragon Claw
TM03: Water Pulse
TM04: Calm Mind
TM05: Roar
TM06: Toxic
TM10: Hidden Power
TM11: Sunny Day
TM12: Taunt
TM15: Hyper Beam
TM17: Protect
TM18: Rain Dance
TM20: Safeguard
TM21: Frustration
TM23: Iron Tail
TM26: Earthquake
TM27: Return
TM28: Dig
TM29: Psychic
TM30: Shadow Ball
TM31: Brick Break
TM32: Double Team
TM36: Sludge Bomb
TM37: Sandstorm
TM40: Aerial Ace
TM41: Torment
TM42: Facade
TM43: Secret Power
TM44: Rest
TM45: Attract
TM46: Thief
TM49: Snatch
TM52: Focus Blast
TM54: False Swipe
TM56: Fling
TM58: Endure
TM60: Drain Punch
TM63: Embargo
TM65: Shadow Claw
TM66: Payback
TM67: Recycle
TM68: Giga Impact
TM77: Psych Up
TM79: Dark Pulse
TM82: Sleep Talk
TM83: Natural Gift
TM84: Poison Jab
TM87: Swagger
TM89: U-Turn
TM90: Substitute
HM01: Cut
HM03: Surf
HM04: Strength
HM05: Whirlpool
HM06: Rock Smash
HM08: Rock Climb

Move Tutor Moves:

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Headbutt
Gastro Acid
Gunk Shot
Mud-Slap
Ancientpower
Aqua Tail
Earth Power
Iron Head
Signal Beam
Outrage
Superpower
Fury Cutter
Knock Off
Sucker Punch
Vacuum Wave
Zen Headbutt
Block
Gravity
Magic Coat
Snore
Helping Hand
Spite
Heal Bell
Uproar

TMs/Tutor moves explanation:

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Earthquake needs no explanation. Sucker Punch is a powerful priority move perfect for destroying Starmie & Latias. Safeguard & Heal Bell both stop status, while Taunt & Magic Coat prevent secondary effects in general. Superpower can be a good filer move on a Choice Band set, Zen Headbutt & Psychic can deal with bulky fighting types, and Surf & Aqua Tail can be used to hit bulky ground types. Gravity can be used so that Colossoil can smash Skarmony & Bronzong with STAB ground type moves, and it also can increase the accuracy of moves like Stone Edge. Knock Off & Embargo can get rid of your opponent's items. With some good prediction, you can use Spite to lower the PP of a secondary move. And with great prediction you can use Gastro Acid to remove the secondary effects of an opponent's ability.

Notes:

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-Colossoil can't use Ice type moves & Fire type moves on the same set.
-Colossoil also can't use both Rock Type moves & Ice type moves on the same set.
-Has Self Destruct, but it can't be used with Ice Attacks.
-He doesn't have any grass or electric attacks at all. That way, bulky waters can be solid checks/counters to Colossoil
-Can use Calm Mind for a gimmicky set, the way that Cyclohm can use Dragon Dance for a gimmicky set.
-Has a variety of different non-attacking moves like Encore, Stockpile, Moonlight, Taunt, Disable, Block, Gravity, Gastro Acid, Snatch, and Magic Coat.
-Colossoil can use Bone Rush and/or Rock Blast to break through one of the most common secondary moves in the current metagame: Substitute.
-Doesn't have Flamethrower or Fire Punch. If you want a Fire type move, you must choose between the weak Fire Fang, or the inaccurate Fire Blast.
-Stupid "Flavor" moves: Horn Attack, Horn Drill, Present, (Colossoil might have a bag of dirty tricks in his hole) Bubblebeam, and Magnitude.

Good Luck to all members who posted a movepool!

 

[familyguyman]

Why not Swallow? It is my understanding that the 3 are always available together, no?

 

[Vividsketch]

Final Submission

On the off chance that Plus decides to allow this through...

[size=+1]Final Submission[/size]

LEVEL UP:

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hs - Fire Fang
hs - Ice Fang
hs - Thunder Fang
– Peck
– Withdraw
06 – Bite
10 - Magnitude
14 - Screech
20 - Drill Peck
26 – Punishment
31 - Dig
38 - Scary Face
42 - Crunch
49 - Earthquake
55 - Megahorn
61 - Fissure

Basically it's based on the Level Up list of Hippowdon, Dugtrio, Rhyperior and a little Tyranitar. Because, let's face it, Collosoil is being modeled on them rather a bit (at least flavor wise). I think it has a strong consistancy, and the progression of the moves or realist as the levels go up.

EGG MOVES: (ground group)

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- Horn Drill
- Double-edge
- Skull Bash
- Revenge
- Pursuit
- Fake Out
- Rapid Spin
- Encore
- Amnesia
- Stock Pile
- Spit Up
- Swallow

Again based loosely on Egg Pools of Hippowdon, Rhyperior and friends. With a few additions for the sake of competitive value. Obviously Smeargle makes all move combo's possible, though all moves can be learnt from other pokemon anyway.

TUTOR MOVES:

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Sucker Punch
Knock Off
Aqua Tail
Super Power
Seed Bomb
Heal Bell
Outrage
Zen Headbutt
Block
Iron Head
Iron Defense
Earth Power
Ancientpower
Headbutt
Gastro Acid
Magic Coat
Snore
Mud Slap
Twister

TM MOVES:

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TM01 - Focus Punch
TM02 - Dragon Claw
TM05 - Roar
TM06 – Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM11 - Sunny Day
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 – Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 – Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 – Earthquake
TM27 – Return
TM28 – Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM35 - Flamethrower
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM38 - Fire Blast
TM39 - Rock Tomb
TM40 - Aerial Ace
TM41 - Torment
TM42 – Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 – Rest
TM45 – Attract
TM46 - Thief
TM49 - Snatch
TM56 - Fling
TM58 – Endure
TM63 - Embargo
TM65 - Shadow Claw
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM71 - Stone Edge
TM72 - Avalanche
TM74 - Gyro Ball
TM78 – Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM80 - Rock Slide
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM90 – Substitute
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash

NOTEABEL EXCLUSIONS:

Selfdestruct, Moonlight, Ice Shard

NOTEABLE INCLUSIONS:

Sucker Punch, Fake Out, Encore, Knock Off, Elemental Fangs, Aqua Tail, Fire Blast, Heal Bell, Seed Bomb and Super Power.


It has pretty much everything most of us wanted competitively, a good amount of flavor, and it all fits together with out looking untidy or forced. I think it looks like a realistic and plausable Game Freak move pool.

 

[Mattman324]

Why not Swallow? It is my understanding that the 3 are always available together, no?

No, sometimes one of the moves are missing. I think that Snorlax doesn't get Spit Up, for instance.

 

[The Other Doug]

Why not Swallow? It is my understanding that the 3 are always available together, no?

Munchlax only has Stockpile & Swallow, he doesn't have Spit Up. Also, Quilfish only has Stockpile & Spit Up, he doesn't have Swallow. So not every pokemon has all three Stockpile related moves.

 

[Objection]

OK, since nobody has had anything bad to say about my movepool, I am just going to make this my final version (not an actual submission until Plus gives permission). I am going to change the text formatting so that the competitive moves are bolded and the non-competitive ones are not.

Objection's first ever movepool - final version

For explanations regarding my move choices, click here and here.

Level up moves

H. Roar
H. Hammer Arm
H. Pursuit
1. Horn Attack
1. Growl
4. Sand Attack
8. Peck
13. Dig
17. Headbutt
21. Beat up
24. Fury Attack
30. Magnitude
35. Rapid Spin
42. Drill Peck
50. Horn Drill
56. Fissure

TM moves

TM05 - Roar
TM06 - Toxic
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM12 - Taunt
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM20 - Safeguard
TM21 - Frustration
TM23 - Iron Tail
TM26 - Earthquake
TM27 - Return
TM28 - Dig
TM31 - Brick Break
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM41 - Torment
TM42 - Facade
TM43 - Secret Power
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM58 - Endure
TM66 - Payback
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM78 - Captivate
TM79 - Dark Pulse
TM82 - Sleep Talk
TM83 - Natural Gift
TM84 - Poison Jab
TM87 - Swagger
TM90 - Substitute
HM04 - Strength
HM06 - Rock Smash
HM08 - Rock Climb

Egg moves (Water 2)

Crunch - Carvanha, Sharpedo
Sucker Punch - Chinchou, Lanturn
Aqua Jet - Carvanha, Sharpedo
Stone Edge - Gyarados, Relicanth, Whiscash
Body Slam - Gyarados, Relicanth, Wailmer, Wailord
Tail Whip - Goldeen, Seaking
Revenge - Qwilfish

Tutor moves (HG/SS only)

Dive
Earth Power
Gastro Acid
Gunk Shot
Heal Bell
Helping Hand
Knock Off
Mud-Slap
Zen Headbutt

Here is one statement I had in mind when making this movepool: CAP9 should have at least one pokemon that always counters its most viable sets. I may be mistaken about this next bit, but I believe Suicune is a counter to the most viable sets this movepool allows for and Gyarados is the counter to the #1 set (EQ/Crunch/Aqua Jet/Taunt or Rapid Spin). Agree or disagree with either or both statements at will.

EDIT: In response to Admiral Korski's post:

I don't feel CAP9 needs amazing coverage to do a good job, nor does it need special attacks to beat Skarmory and Hippowdon, just like Heatran doesn't need Explosion to beat Blissey. In both of these examples, the move Taunt prevents them from using recovery moves, thereby reducing their walling capabilities. As well as this, I said that a lot of pokemon can run sets that beat their supposed counters simply by changing one superfluous move. I don't want CAP9 to get this luxury. I feel that, if CAP9 can beat its counters by changing one superfluous move, that makes it into a slightly lesser Garchomp thanks to Guts, and lesser only because of the lower base speed and Dark STAB over Dragon STAB. That's why I put Stone Edge in egg moves and not in TM moves and it is why I made a combination of Stone Edge and Crunch/Sucker Punch illegal.

As I said above, I also want CAP9 to be actually counterable and not have only checks. One of the reasons I opposed any move that increases attack is that, after +1 attack and Guts, CAP9 2HKOs all of its identified responses. Besides, even if I wanted to add stuff like Fire Fang and Ice Fang, I am limited as to how many competitive non-TM moves I am allowed to have in the level up list and egg moves list (maximum is six between the two lists). That's why I picked Aqua Jet: it is not considered competitive.

Furthermore, I can justify three of the six Fighting-type moves: Revenge (because Taunt forces opponents to attack and CAP9 has decent bulk, Revenge becomes a powerful move but is generally not that useful compared to other options), Hammer Arm (the speed reduction boosts Payback's power to 100, giving CAP9 a more powerful Dark-type move than Crunch and allowing a combination of a strong Dark-type move and Stone Edge) and Brick Break (Reflect and Light Screen are secondary effects, are they not? Brick Break removes them, thus helping CAP9 fulfil the concept). I will remove Focus Punch, Superpower and Drain Punch though.

As for the most viable set issue, I deduced that that would be CAP9's most viable set because, in terms of the attacks used, it is arguably similar to SD Lucario (powerful STAB move that gets good coverage, Dark-type attack to hit Ghost-types with, and a priority move). With an instant attack boost from Guts and 95 base speed, CAP9 also has the stats to sweep in a similar manner to SD Lucario, only without the ability to further boost its attack. Instead, CAP9 gets the move Taunt to shut down the more wallish counters like Skarmory and Hippowdon.

 

[Korski]

@ Objection: Why do you have 6 "notable" Fighting moves, more than any other type, even its main Typings, in your movepool (Hammer Arm, Drain Punch, Superpower, Focus Punch, Brick Break, Revenge)? Why did you give Hydro Cannon, a decidedly flavorful move, to a non-starter, thus without precedence? What makes you think Colossoil will ever run Hidden Power, ever? Off of that, why didn't you give it any viable special coverage moves outside its own worthless STABs? On the physical side, the only viable coverage moves here are Stone Edge and those Fighting moves I mentioned. Why did you make the attacking movepool of a generally offensive pokemon so small? What is the competitive reasoning behind Aqua Jet over, say, Ice Shard or Fake Out? How do you know what its most viable set is already?

 

[HeavyOctillery]

Before I put up my final draft, I need to figure out some damage calculations just to make sure I can get away with some of the moves. Wasn't there some damage calculation program thing available here? I couldn't find it on the main site. It'd be a big help.

 

[Naxte]

Before I put up my final draft, I need to figure out some damage calculations just to make sure I can get away with some of the moves. Wasn't there some damage calculation program thing available here? I couldn't find it on the main site. It'd be a big help.

Libelldra has a good damage calculator:
http://libelldra.com/competitive/damage/