CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 3 - Secondary Type Discussion

[Plus]

The people supporting a Defensive Dragon are constantly saying that Electric/Dragon "only has 3 weaknesses", and has lots of resistances. Yes, it only has 3 weaknesses, but the weaknesses it DOES have are all dangerously common offensive types.

Even if it turns out offensive, it's not really too much of a difference. Offensive or defensive, no Pokemon loves exploitable weaknesses.
THAT'S why many People are choosing Bug.



Conversely, a lot of people are choosing Dragon because Bug has a Stealth Rock weakness.
That's really the only mentioned complaint.

I'd say Fire and Rock are common as well. Stratagem, Stone Edge, and SR are all common Rocks. And to be honest, STAB Bug moves aren't exactly the best STAB there is.

And yeah, I'm voting Dragon because Bug has a Stealth Rock weakness, and doesn't have much to back up it's resistances. Even Fighting. I think having an SR weak is infact a valid point unlike being afraid of Dragon type moves.

Offensive and defensively, Dragon outclasses Bug in both offense and defense. Don't factor in Electric here, I'm just saying that Dragon is overall a better type than Bug. That being the case, I believe people vote bug because they like the resistances they have to offer more than Dragon, although I do not.

I'm not supporting any type of defense/offense bias just yet. This pokemon can go either way. Weaknesses and resistances are surprisingly used in both offense and defense.

 

[m190049]

I'd say Fire and Rock are common as well. Stratagem, Stone Edge, and SR are all common Rocks.

I'm aware. But not everyone thinKs about that, and there's the fact that it only has two weaknesses, compared to three. Many may just think of that and make a rash decision.

And... While still common, they are slightly less common...

 

[cyberzero]

Useless discussion. Change the topic, please. Support moves and what something should or should not get means nothing because movepools do not consider what is considered "common" ingame.

 

[Princess_power]

Perhaps this is because Salamence has immense offenses and mediocre defenses more than its Dragon typing.

I agree with that.

Butterfree learns a metric ton of status moves but none of them are Bug type and only 1 (the questionably useful Tailwind) is Flying type. Somehow Butterfree remains a pokemon heavily focused on support moves.

Yet, it gets most of the Powders from being Bug. I guess I'm arguing flavor now, so I apologize. Most Dragons in the current game are offensive, because they're good at it. I guess CAP 8 can/might break that stereotype? Which would be neat.

From the way I see it, there are two main reasons people are voting Bug. They either:

-Are afraid of Dragons ripping up CaP

-Like the resistances more than Dragon

I'd definitely go with the first one, but if you can stomp me into the ground in a discussion like this, I really don't think there's anything to fear.

 

[Plus]

I'm aware. But not everyone thinKs about that, and there's the fact that it only has two weaknesses, compared to three. Many may just think of that and make a rash decision.

And... While still common, they are slightly less common...

I'm talking about why I'm voting for Dragon here, not everybody, really. I've seen some really retarded reasons as to why people have voted Dragon. I honestly just wanted to voice my opinion in this topic. However I'm always up for a good argument on why I made the choice I have made.

Common is common. Heatran, Infernape, Salamence, Flygon, just to name a few, all carry Fire type moves. Seeing as how all 4 are in the top 20, I'd say Electric/Bug simply doesn't have any business with them. Also, something I disliked about Electric Bug was it's attempt to neutralize it's weakness with ground. As a result, Electric/Bug lost it's Flying resistance. Scarf Togekiss, in particular, is quite the common thing in today's metagame. Losing a resistance to that isn't too fun, is it? I've playtested a bit against Scarf Togekiss in CaP, and I can definitely say having a Flying resist helps.

EDIT: Princess Power: A type alone is nothing. The reason I said that many people were afraid of Dragons in CaP is because OU in Platinum revolves around Dragons and Steels. It's not that different in CaP, but a pokemon is not a pokemon simply by type. Movepool and Stats are both large factors in determining the centralization in pokemon.

 

[m190049]

Electric Bug was it's attempt to neutralize it's weakness with ground.

People keep saying this all the time;
That was mostly just a nice niche that came along with it.

There were more reasons that that to chose Bug over Dragon. =/

 

[Not Scicky]

Where did I say that.


Anyway, make a top 10 for Dragon, Ground, and Ice too.
Post the results. I want to see them.

Yeah I suppose that was uncalled for...

I'll go a little more in depth actually...

Dragon:
Weak (In the top 10):
Metagross Earthquakes
Latias Draco Meteors
Salamence Outrages/Earthquakes
Starmie Ice Beams
Tyranitar Earthquakes
Heatran Dragon Pulses/Earth Powers

Resistant (In the top 10):
Metagross Meteor Mashes/Bullet Punches
Latias Surfs/Thunderbolts
Scizor Bullet Punches
Jirachi Iron Heads
Starmie Hydro Pumps/Thunderbolts
Tyranitar Aqua Tails
Heatran Fire Blasts/HP Grass/Electric
Infernape Fire Blasts
Zapdos Heat Waves/Thunderbolts/HP Grass (Pretty much anything it can throw around)

Bug:
Weak (In the top 10):
Salamence Stone Edges/Fire Blasts
Tyranitar Stone Edges
Heatran Fire Blasts
Infernape Fire Blasts (Stone Edge if any actually use it >>)
Zapdos Heat Waves

Resistant (In the top 10):
Metagross Meteor Mashes/Bullet Punches
Latias Thunderbolts
Scizor Bullet Punches/Super Powers
Jirachi Iron Heads
Starmie Thunderbolts
Heatran HP Grass/Electric
Infernape Close Combats
Zapdos HP Grass

4x resistances are italicized

Elec/Dragon also hits 3 of its weaknesses for SE, bug hits tyranitar :l

Neither are bad choices, but dragon has more appeal to me =/

 

[Plus]

There were more reasons that that to chose Bug over Dragon. =/

I'm definitely aware that there are more reasons to choose bug that were already presented, rather than the monotonous OMG IT NEUTRALIZES GROUND reasoning. Weaknesses are weaknesses, and just about every pokemon has them.

I don't think it's even a niche at all. Infact, I am pretty sure that the majority of voters here who voted bug want exactly that. I bet I could sift through the poll topic to prove that people want to neutralize just another weakness. You lose a weakness, you gain a weakness. Yay.

In all, I really thought that reason was a bunch of hype, but I still don't think people caught on to it yet. With a weakness comes another.

 

[m190049]

@Atyroki
Dragon has both one more weakness, and one more resist.
I'd say that balances each other out...

 

[Veedrock]

I'd much rather deal with a Ground weakness than a Rock weakness, especially if the rock weakness doesn't even grant Ground immunity (like Flying types). It's easy to pack an immunity or 2 for ground on your team that'll take advantage for the free switch. If this Electric/Bug was immune to Ground, that'd be another story. But for simple neutrality, no way.

Oh, I didn't vote.

 

[Coronis]

Ok, both types are decent choices, but I haven't seen any useful discussion in the last few pages, in my opinion just stupid posts and responses.

I don't see the point of this thread still being open.

 

[Plus]

@Atyroki
Dragon has both one more weakness, and one more resist.
I'd say that balances each other out...

Lol, although you weren't talking to me I just wanted to point out that gaining one weakness and losing another doesn't balance things out. It depends on the type weakness that is gained and the weakness that is lost. I would trade my poison resistance for a dragon resistance any day. In theory, it is a balanced trade. But hell, that's actually a great deal.

Depending on the pokemon that 'one resist' could mean the world. What happened if Gyarados gained a resistance to Rock and gained a 4x weakness to Poison? That's not balancing anything out at all.

 

[Ketamine]

Hmm, Electric/Dragon. This is going to be a good one. But I would of rather have seen a Electric/Bug, like an Illuminate, w/e that little beatle thing is called.

 

[m190049]

Hmm, Electric/Dragon. This is going to be a good one. But I would of rather have seen a Electric/Bug, like an Illuminate, w/e that little beatle thing is called.

You mean Illumise? I think your referring to the insect known as the Firefly, also known as the lightning bug.

 

[cyberzero]

Since the Secondary Type has been chosen, Dragon, I think that it's time to close this thread, if a mod would be so kind as to do so.