CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 3 - Secondary Type Discussion

[cyberzero]

With our Main Type chosen, Electric, we'll have to decide on a Secondary Type for CAP8. Here's the Concept once again:

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

The discussion here would be revolved around offsetting any issues in regards to the Electric typing we've chosen. Once again, please don't bring up abilities because typing and bias choose the Ability, not the other way around. Happy discussing!

This is not a vote.
Do not tell us what you are voting for because it does not matter in this thread. Discuss what possible Secondary Type we can give our new Pokemon. No votes.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

Obligatory mention of Dragon, although EM's Poison is certainly not without merits.

Also, Bug is a cool type worth consideration here. Fighting as well. Even Psychic would be pretty cool when you think about it. (Ultimate Arghonaut counter, anyone? )

EDIT: What resistances does Ground provide? Poison and Rock? Dragon has excellent resistances in Fire, Water, and Grass.

 

[zarator]

I would want to mention Fighting

Yes, you lose Flying resistance, but you buy a Rock (and so SR) resistance, along with resistance to Bug and Dark. Resisting Tyranitar and Scizor's STABs is neat.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I don't normally consider Grass a good type because of the Fire and Ice weaknesses, but Levi makes a good point. Would Poison moves become viable on Pokemon like Gengar and Fidgit?

 

[ferron]

i wouldn't mind seeing an electric/bug type. i would remove the ground weakness (EQ being the most popular move in the game) while adding a crucial fighting resistance.
this typing only has 2 weaknesses (fire and rock) and 4 resistances (electric, steel, grass, fighting).

 

[polelover44]

Grass. Grass nullifies Electric's only weakness, and electric nullifies Flying, giving it a total 4 weaknesses. Resistance to steel and double resistance to electric will help when facing Kit, Metagross, and Zapdos (A common Argho counter.) On the other hand, it has four weaknesses (Poison, Bug, Ice, Fire), two of which are common in the meta. This helps balance it out, so it isn't broken or overcentralizing, but is good enough to make OU.

 

[Tint]

Am I crazy for saying Water? It gives it a nice set of resistances, and a wonderful dual-stab, plus x4 resistance to Steel is always good. And this typing doesn't have to be unique everyone. It always seems to go that way in CAP polls.

 

[Umbreon Dan]

I big part of the point of CAP is to explore unique concepts. Sure, we could make another Electric/Water, but why would we when it could instead be Dragon, Grass, Bug, Poison, Fighting or Psychic?

 

[zarator]

Am I crazy for saying Water? It gives it a nice set of resistances, and a wonderful dual-stab, plus x4 resistance to Steel is always good. And this typing doesn't have to be unique everyone. It always seems to go that way in CAP polls.

Well, we had 3 out of 7 CAPs which have no-unique typing (Argo, Strata and Fidgit)

 

[jagged_angel]

I dont see how Dragon has a multitude of resistances - it adds Fire, Water and Grass but Electric already resists itself.

Electric/Dragon is also an excellent sweeping type combo and I Really don't want another Dragon sweeper. It seems like it would be wasted on a defensive poke. Also, being weak to Both ends of Boltbeam is pretty bad from a defensive perspective.

Electric/Fighting on the other hand adds a great SR resist and resists three additional types, Rock, Bug and Dark. It's a great sweeping combo - off the top of my head only Rotom and Claydol resist it.

Electric/Bug is also a decent typing as Bug makes Electric neutral to Ground, and resists Grass and Fighting. Electric also neutralises Bug's Flying weakness. Only 2 weaknesses is pretty good but the downside is the SR weakness.

Electric/Grass is an ok combo since it's neutral to Ground and Flying, but I don't like the Fire and Ice weaknesses of Grass.

 

[SEO]

I like to second Grass as its secondary typing because of the nice resistances it provides: Electric, Steel, Water, and Grass along with neutrality to Electric's most glaring weakness Ground and Grass's Flying. This typing though will still leaves it to some weaknesses in Ice, Poison, and Fire. This typing would allow it to have good resistances yet not being comletely overpowering. Sometimes it feels that CaP's have incredible typing that sometimes makes it hard to handle, this typing would not make it overpowering but remain resonably good.

 

[Tint]

Well, we had 3 out of 7 CAPs which have no-unique typing (Argo, Strata and Fidgit)

I know this, it just seems to me that every type poll voters don't vote for types that already exist. Idk maybe I'm being paranoid.

Electic/Steel is good, actually great, having 13 resistances, but no one wants x4 ground weak. SR resist though.

 

[zarator]

I like to second Grass as its secondary typing because of the nice resistances it provides: Electric, Steel, Water, and Grass along with neutrality to Electric's most glaring weakness Ground and Grass's Flying. This typing though will still leaves it to some weaknesses in Ice, Poison, and Fire. This typing would allow it to have good resistances yet not being comletely overpowering. Sometimes it feels that CaP's have incredible typing that sometimes makes it hard to handle, this typing would not make it overpowering but remain resonably good.

You forgot Bug

EDIT: Electric/Steel, in my opinion, is too prone to Heatran

 

[Elevator Music]

Poison. If you've been on the server you've probably heard me lobbying for Elec/Poison and here's why:

- Electric/Poison has good resistances: Steel, Fighting, and Flying resistances are really cool to me and I wanted them on this CaP badly. On top of that you have an Electric resistance and a Bug resistance (as well as a Grass and Poison resist). And if you've noticed, most of these types (bar Steel), are not paired offensiely with types that Electric/Poison is weak to.

- Neutrality to Stealth Rock: I would have pushed for Electric/Bug or Electric/Flying, but I decided that a neutrality to Stealth Rock and less weaknesses made Electric/Poison a much better typing defensively, even though the above two weren't 4x Ground weak and still resisted Fighting.

- Not Pursuit-weak: Uggh I hate Pursuit-weak defensive pokemon. I would have liked Electric/Ghost or Electric/Psychic (as they also had excellent resistances), but they were Pursuit weak and overall that made me want Electric/Poison more.

- Look past the 4x Ground weakness! You shouldn't be fighting any pokemon with Ground moves anyways. We picked an Electric-type pokemon, so unless we make it insanely bulky it won't be able to withstand more than one Earthquake regardless. Also, keep in mind a lot of the types that Electric/Poison has resistances to rarely (if ever) pack Ground type attacks. The only type that does is Steel (because Bronzong and Metagross and the rare Forretress run Earthquake). Fighting types generally don't because it's bad coverage. Flying types don't because they generally don't have access to EQ. Heracross, Syclant, Yanmega, and Scizor (the only commonish Bug pokemon) don't run EQ. It won't be an issue. Electric/Poison-mon will still have plenty of pokemon to wall.

Of course, the Psychic weakness is also pretty irrelevant since again, most of the types that Electric/Poison resists don't pack Psychic-type attacks either (except the rare Zen Headbutt Jirachi and Metagross).


Electric/Poison is an excellent defensive typing, and if you want a defensive ability/pokemon then it's a fine choice to pick for CaP8!

 

[Elegy]

I agree that Electric / Grass is a nice combination, only weak to Ice and Fire while retaining a neutrality to Stealth Rock. Could end up as a bulky water counter with its STAB and resistances.

What about Electric / Ice? I know it may not be the best of types, but it does keep the STAB boltbeam.

And Poison was going to be my idea, but Em is too fast and too smart. I could never provide that much info. =/ Now he has 666 posts, too.

 

[Magmortified]

I'm not very enthusiastic about Grass. It doesn't really keep up offensively and the typing benefits are kind of mehish for the added weaknesses onto this thing. Your resistance to Steel is now somewhat canceled out by the fact that Scizor is seriously going to mess you up with U-Turn. Fire and Ice have a big presence in the game too, so... blargh. I don't think EQ neutrality is worth all of the extra issues and rather minor benefits Grass could add on here. So if we're weak to Earthquake - we're weak to Earthquake. I'm fine with that. We shouldn't encourage the mindset of adding typing solely to cover up a weakness. The same applies here for Electric/Bug. What Bug seems to have been tacked on for EQ neutrality and maybe Fighting resist at the cost of SR weakness, Fire weakness, Rock weakness, etc. ._.

I would actually like to lobby for No Secondary Typing. Electric is versatile enough of a typing on its own. It doesn't incur crippling new weaknesses like some typing suggestions. Most importantly, it helps keep our options open for when we make decisions. It doesn't commit itself specifically to Offense or Defense, like a lot of typing suggestions seem to do, and can easily work on its own if backed by a strong movepool and/or stats.

 

[cyberzero]

I do like Poison, but I feel that it overcentralizes Metagross and Jirachi even MORE than they already are. Metagross was the most used Pokemon last time the stats came out and will most likely be most used this time around. Metagross can 2HKO or OHKO every CAP except the not-so-common Pyroak and this would just add to the list. I feel that if we have Grass, it would be a pretty good defensive typing. It would resist both EQ and Zen Headbutt which would be a major plus.

EDIT: After reading Mag's post, it seems that Grass is inferior to Poison, but I haven't made up my mind yet. Water does seem interesting though, we could go for an OU revamp of Lanturn!

 

[Plus]

No Secondary Typing

I honestly think that one weakness is fine enough. Something I just really don't like about most of our CaPs is the dual ability/dual typing thing we tend to do a lot. Electric is a fine type alone, and I will stand by that. There aren't many options that I like that are displayed with Electric, so I'm supporting No Secondary Typing.

 

[Veedrock]

Rallying against Dragon; "cool" never gets very far, and when we make a Dragon CAP it needs to be a concept that isn't so vague because it will be easy to over do it (Dragon is effin' nuts). As for fighting, we have 2 fight CAPs, we don't need another. Fighting is cool but enough is enough (Poison still gives you your Psychic weakness).

Mono-Electric is pretty bad; resistances are needed badly for any pokemon, who cares if it has a weakness here or there. Bug has a nasty SR weakness and the only notable resist is Fighting (neutral to ground). Psychic sounds pretty cool actually, but I like Jirachi anyways, so it likely won't get my vote. Fire would be pretty good and might help slice Metagross usage, but then again that glaring Ground weakness is there, topped by SR weakness. So no go.

So as of now I have no nominations, just wanted to down some already out there =)

EDIT: Oh yes, I was going to suggest Rock. I forget why >_> So if I choose to nominate it I will later.

 

[Tint]

I'm either pulling for No Second Typing or Water. All the other typings, as Mag said, either push too much for offense of defense.

Electric by itself has only one weakness, and a very good neutral STAB. It also gives a very open slate for almost all abilities.

Water/Electric is also very good at many things. It has a x4 resistance to BP, no SR weak, great STAB if we go offensive, other useful resistances (Fire, Ice, Water, Flying) making it very capable of being defensive, with no x4 weakness.

 

[Magmortified]

Mono-Electric is pretty bad.

Could you please elaborate?

 

[jagged_angel]

Elec/Grass won't resist EQ OR Zen Headbutt cyber!

I'm leaning more strongly towards Elec/Bug or Elec/Fighting, both have only 2 weaknesses and pretty decent STAB synergy. As offensive type combos, they are quite high up.

Elec/Poison isn't a bad defensive typing, and defensive types always love a Poison immunity. However, it's still 4x weak to the most common move in the metagame. Its resists - Fighting, Bug, Grass, Poison - are similar to Bug's - Fighting, Grass, Ground - but Bug has the benefit of EQ neutrality which is IMO makes it a better defensive typing than Elec/Poison.

Actually, Electric/Bug is just as good a defensive type combo as pure Electric. Electric has 1 weakness and 3 resists, whereas Elec/Bug has 2 weaknesses and 4 resists. Since Earthquake is such a common move, and Fighting moves are alot more common than Flying moves, I think Bug benefits Electric's defence more than hinders it. Rock and Fire are common move types, but not as common as Ground.

 

[Veedrock]

Could you please elaborate?

I did in my edit (I edit a lot, sorry). Basically the only reason I say that is because there are are few resistances to work off of, with Electric's lone resistances not being enough to do much with. Hence I want a second typing, to add resistances. Yes it adds weakness but every pokemon has them (except Spiritomb and Sableye, but you get the point). I'm not fond of monotypes for the reason above (normal somehow gets away with it).

 

[Elegy]

When did we decide it was a defensive pokemon?
I like Ice because of the offensive STAB boltbeam, but that is IMO.

 

[Tint]

When did we decide it was a defensive pokemon?
I like Ice because of the offensive STAB boltbeam, but that is IMO.

Offensive pokemon enjoy resistances too. When did you decide it was offensive?