CAP 5 CAP 5 - Concept Submissions

[DougJustDoug]

Name: Mailman
Description: Rain, Hail, Sun or Sandstorm, this Pokemon will still deliver in a timely manner.

This Pokemon would get acess to Thunder, Solarbeam and Blizzard (and maybe a singature move that works for sandstorm?) and be immune to damage from Hail and Sandstorm (either by typing or ability). Giving the ability to come in on any weather affect and abuse it would be great in any tier. It would need to be reasonably fast with high special defense, and useable special attack.

Giving it an ability, that makes him ignore the negative effects of the Weather, and get the bonuses to?(SpDef bonus in Sandstorm, Snow Cloak in hail, Chlorophyll in Sun, Swift Swim in rain?) Weather ball would be a good attack for it, but that would make him like an Evo for Castform, whit a better ability.

You should edit your post like I did in the Quote, as that part does not go to the Description.

Lots of people should heed your advice, LightWolf. As it stands, there are a LOT of posts in this thread that are violating this rule from the OP:

Concept descriptions should be short. A sentence or two is normal. Long descriptions are invariably too specific or too convoluted. Keep it short. Do NOT include your explanation of the concept in the Description.

A great many people make no distinction between explanation and official description in their submissions, despite the fact that the proper submission format is stipulated very clearly in the OP. As such, unless their descriptions are brief, to the point, and contain no specific design points -- their submissions will be completely ignored. I am not going to interpret people's posts like you kindly did for Master of Six Kings. There are way too many submissions for me to clean up every one of them. But, posts like that will not be presented to the TL for consideration.

 

[LightWolf]

@Doug

Yep all should follow the rules! I did read them all and tried to make my idea like that in the OP.

All should do it!

 

[Master of the Six Kings]

Thank you light wolf, I have edited the post to your style. I will make sure to re-read the rules before posting ._.

 

[Syprus]

Everyone needs to read the rules... Don't be lazy ppl!

 

[billymills]

I've honestly never seen a max sp def/hp togekiss with a +Sp.Def nature. It's either I haven't been playing a lot of pokemon lately, or it's just a minor exception of people who play this sort of thing. Heck, not even everybody uses Togekiss at CaP. I've only seen about 3 people use it when I laddered. >_>

My original team that i used at CAP included a max Hp Max+ Sp. Def. It worked great. it can come in on 3/4 of the current CAPs and scare them off.

 

[BARILLIAN]

My official suggestion is as follows.

Name: Mew in OU
Description A Pokemon that can take upon itself several different roles depending on a team's needs. It pays the cost of unpredictability by not doing any of its roles as effective as specialized Pokemon of that role.

So it should be able to, for example, both be a potent offensive force and a good wall (or a good baton passer, or good team support, whatever) but it shouldn't be able to attack as well as Azelf neither should it wall like Uxie or Cresselia. While I'm not explicitly saying it in the concept description, I believe it's quite obvious we're looking at a wide movepool here.

I am aware of a previous concept suggestion that advocates a mediocre Pokemon with surprise moves. I am open to comments about how similar those two ideas here and can change my concept if need be.

Now, my other point.
The existance of a Pokemon with a similar role does not disqualify a concept. Here is a perfectly legit concept:

Name: Sweeper
Description: This Pokemon should be capable of swiftly knocking out a wide variety of opposing Pokemon.

Yet I'm seeing posts like "Pyroak does what you want", "Bibarel does what you want", "Clefable does what you want". CaP project, if enough members want it, can create an exact duplicate of Clefable. I ask of the community to stop posting existing Pokemon fulfilling a certain concept as though their existance nulls the concept suggestion.

[Edit:] Oh hey. All my arguments will be from this post until I get permission to pull off something I probably won't be allowed to.

How is Fidgit capable of doing whatever my team wants it to? Kindly write down the roles Fidgit can effectively take on a team without wasting its potential. As I can see, its attacking options are rather limited and it doesn't get Baton Pass. CaP 4 must have went entirely wrong if a Pokemon supposed to have a "pure utility" role can fulfill a "jack of all trades, master of none" concept (Which, obviously, would be in part my own fault as well as the whole community's. )

Regarding your second point, let us take a look at the "Sweeper" concept. It can include Garchomp, Scylant, Tyranitar, Azelf and Lucario, all vastly different Pokemon that affected the metagame in different ways. If you rule out a concept as "-Pokemon- already fulfills -role-" you are in fact limiting the amount of new wind we may bring to the Pokemon metagame instead of increasing the diversity.

[Other edit:]

Alright, let's look over roles Fidgit can fulfill.

Team support
Team support
Team support
Team support
Quite important team support the metagame truly needed
Spiker
Team support

Yep, CaP4 was good. Fidgit works as intended. You're not listing Fidgit's roles. You're listing how Fidgit does its intended role - does it Encore a stat boost and enable a Tyranitar Dragon Dance, or does it set up Gravity or Tail Wind for the same Tyranitar? What of Trick Room for a Curse one?

Regarding my Sweeper point, you are right on that there are already existing sweepers (Other than boredom issues, I don't care what CaP did and did not make in the past when concerning new CaP projects and I don't think anyone should. ) but I was merely using it as an example. I would, for example, support a Pokemon that can ignore stat boosts (Either via fast Haze or Unaware) despite Bibarel already ignoring them.

[Next edit:]

My comment is to be taken as "CaP Pokemon must be taken as a part of the current metagame and not any differently than "official" Pokemon. " Regarding your Bibarel comment, one must note that people were even listing largely unviable Pokemon like Clefable and Bibarel.

Regarding your other point, funny how I was planning to use Doug's posts to support my own point - because that's what his posts do.

In Deck Knight's example, he refers to a "Special Wall to counteract Togekiss". Could that be construed as a general role pokemon play in the competitive metagame? No. "Special Wall"? Yes. "Special Wall to counteract Togekiss?" No. Togekiss is not a big enough threat to warrant an entire category of pokemon to counter it.

Most of what you listed either increases the efficiency of another Pokemon, ensures that Pokemon gets in safely, softens the team for it or any combination of the three. Does "Bulky U-turner" not sound a bit like "Special Wall that defeats Togekiss" ? How many players would use Fidgit in their team simply because it has a bulky U-turn and not because it is a good team support Pokemon?

 

[tennisace]

My official suggestion is as follows.



So it should be able to, for example, both be a potent offensive force and a good wall (or a good baton passer, or good team support, whatever) but it shouldn't be able to attack as well as Azelf neither should it wall like Uxie or Cresselia. While I'm not explicitly saying it in the concept description, I believe it's quite obvious we're looking at a wide movepool here.

I am aware of a previous concept suggestion that advocates a mediocre Pokemon with surprise moves. I am open to comments about how similar those two ideas here and can change my concept if need be.

Fidgit is exactly that.

Now, my other point.
The existance of a Pokemon with a similar role does not disqualify a concept. Here is a perfectly legit concept:

Name: Sweeper
Description: This Pokemon should be capable of swiftly knocking out a wide variety of opposing Pokemon.

Yet I'm seeing posts like "Pyroak does what you want", "Bibarel does what you want", "Clefable does what you want". CaP project, if enough members want it, can create an exact duplicate of Clefable. I ask of the community to stop posting existing Pokemon fulfilling a certain concept as though their existance nulls the concept suggestion.

My understanding of the CAP project is to explore NEW metagame ideas, not rehash old ones. I get miffed when people suggest these concepts that have been done by us because it shows that people don't look at previous projects.

 

[Vinyacoire]

Fidgit is exactly that.

My understanding of the CAP project is to explore NEW metagame ideas, not rehash old ones. I get miffed when people suggest these concepts that have been done by us because it shows that people don't look at previous projects.

The ideas are similar not 'exactly that'. Unless I've looked at the movepool wrong, Fidget is a pretty crappy Baton Passer. And unless your opponent doesn't have very good defenses, I don't think he makes a very good attacker either (but I haven't been able to get on Shoddy since the program randomly screwed up). The idea may be similar in that he can help a team a few ways, but they are not the same idea.

According to the mission statement, the purpose is to explore NEW metagame ideas, but that shouldn't exclude doing something in a new way. Anything is new as long as it has some aspect that is unutilized. So far, all of the typings are new and that alone makes the CAP guys unique; as long as the TL guides the project decently, it will be new. Everything has been done in the game one way or another (unless we divert to making up abilities and moves, etc.).

 

[Legacy Raider]

Note, Fidgit's typing isn't new. Nidoking and queen share the same typing as it.

 

[tennisace]

The ideas are similar not 'exactly that'. Unless I've looked at the movepool wrong, Fidget is a pretty crappy Baton Passer. And unless your opponent doesn't have very good defenses, I don't think he makes a very good attacker either (but I haven't been able to get on Shoddy since the program randomly screwed up). The idea may be similar in that he can help a team a few ways, but they are not the same idea.

According to the mission statement, the purpose is to explore NEW metagame ideas, but that shouldn't exclude doing something in a new way. Anything is new as long as it has some aspect that is unutilized. So far, all of the typings are new and that alone makes the CAP guys unique; as long as the TL guides the project decently, it will be new. Everything has been done in the game one way or another (unless we divert to making up abilities and moves, etc.).

The problem is people aren't suggesting new ways, they're suggesting already existing concepts because they want a new one.

Note, Fidgit's typing isn't new. Nidoking and queen share the same typing as it.

Typing =/= Concept. What other Pokemon has Gravity, Trick Room, Tailwind, U-turn, Wish, Rapid Spin, and Encore? Or was that directed at Vinny?

Edit:

[Edit:] Oh hey. All my arguments will be from this post until I get permission to pull off something I probably won't be allowed to.

How is Fidgit capable of doing whatever my team wants it to? Kindly write down the roles Fidgit can effectively take on a team without wasting its potential. As I can see, its attacking options are rather limited and it doesn't get Baton Pass. CaP 4 must have went entirely wrong if a Pokemon supposed to have a "pure utility" role can fulfill a "jack of all trades, master of none" concept (Which, obviously, would be in part my own fault as well as the whole community's. )

Regarding your second point, let us take a look at the "Sweeper" concept. It can include Garchomp, Scylant, Tyranitar, Azelf and Lucario, all vastly different Pokemon that affected the metagame in different ways. If you rule out a concept as "-Pokemon- already fulfills -role-" you are in fact limiting the amount of new wind we may bring to the Pokemon metagame instead of increasing the diversity.

Lets go over the list of roles Fidgit can fill:

Suicide Lead
Encore/Wisher
TR -> Slow U-turn
Tailwind for 5 turns
Gravity set up
Rapid Spinner
Spiker
Bulky U-turner

Need I go on?

Secondly, You're right to say that there are different kinds of sweepers. However, I don't think that we need to make another sweeper at this moment, considering how we made one already. It's not limiting to say we're not going to make a bunch of sweepers and ignore other concepts, rather it expands it by allowing new ideas to form in the metagame.

 

[UberMunch]

Loving Ubermunch's idea Hax abusser FTW.If we do go with this don't make it broken,please?

Of course we won't make it broken. That is the whole point of this project: to generate discussion that explores certain parts of the metagame through theorymon and testing and decide what would be broken or not (to an extent). I am confident this community could create something that fits quite nicely into the metagame, and possibly learn a thing or two along the way.

And I'm glad you like the idea. :)

 

[Deck Knight]

Why do Hax Abuser and Anti-CAP pokemon all sound so much like Togekiss >_>

 

[tennisace]

Why do Hax Abuser and Anti-CAP pokemon all sound so much like Togekiss >_>

Because that's what they are in a nutshell.

Edit@Alper: What do you mean you don't care about past projects? Past projects are our FOUNDATION. If you don't know the past, you can't make the future. Also, if you look at Doug's proposed definition of role: you can put any of my "roles" in an RMT, and it'll make sense. I listed completely viable roles. @Unawaremon, thats fine if you want to make it because Bibarel sucks. In the future EVO projects, we could also just evolve it, and do it that way, since it fills a hole in the metagame.

 

[UberMunch]

Actually, a crucial part of my concept was the ability to STOP hax. I recognize that Togekiss has become very popular on the server, and I tried to incorporate the idea of a togekiss check in the concept.

 

[tennisace]

Actually, a crucial part of my concept was the ability to STOP hax. I recognize that Togekiss has become very popular on the server, and I tried to incorporate the idea of a togekiss check in the concept.

How exactly do you "stop" hax? Battle Armor/Inner Focus/Vital Spirit/Limber on a Fire/Poison/Ice Type? You'd need an ability to stop hax, and you really can't have an ability in a concept.

 

[HD]

Hax comes in many different forms, and you can't "stop" all of them. Critical hits, misses and status to name a few.

 

[UberMunch]

That's up to the community to figure out. If I was going to specify an ability and plan out the entire project, I wouldn't have posted a concept. It's illegal.

 

[tennisace]

Hax comes in many different forms, and you can't "stop" all of them. Critical hits, misses and status to name a few.

What do you need to stop them? Abilities, Never-miss moves/ability, and abilities/typing respectively. The funny thing is, thats against the rules.

 

[Plus]

My original team that i used at CAP included a max Hp Max+ Sp. Def. It worked great. it can come in on 3/4 of the current CAPs and scare them off.

I want more people to say what you have said, so I am proven that not only a minority uses this kind of Togekiss.

 

[UberMunch]

What do you need to stop them? Abilities, Never-miss moves/ability, and abilities/typing respectively. The funny thing is, thats against the rules.

What do you need to be a wall? Good defensive stats and HP, a decent typing with resistances, and possibly a defense minded ability. That's also against the rules.

The point is, as long as you don't specify those things, the decision is still up to the community. There are always multiple ways to go about something.

 

[tennisace]

What do you need to be a wall? Good defensive stats and HP, a decent typing with resistances, and possibly a defense minded ability. That's also against the rules.

The point is, as long as you don't specify those things, the decision is still up to the community. There are always multiple ways to go about something.

A wall is more open to interpretation. It can be physical, special, or a combination. It can have any type, and really any ability. When you say, "I want to control hax", you limit yourself to a few select choices, or it doesn't accomplish that.

 

[Not Scicky]

@Ubermunch: Not really, blissey has slightly above average sp.def and terrible defense, it's still an amazing wall =/

 

[DarthVader317]

Name: Switcher
Description: The pokemon relys on switching in order to benefit itself or the team or harm the opponent.


What I was thinking is that switching is key. It could use moves like Whirlwind or Roar to force the opponent to switch, or use stuff like U-Turn or Baton Pass. Or perhaps it has an ability that activates only when switched out, like Intimidate, and switching would make the best use of it.

 

[UberMunch]

I didn't mean all its stats had to be amazing, just that it was defensively built.

And the wall example was only to show that even the most broad and unspecific of concepts will effect some polls. Honestly, I think the more specific the concept (without actually determining any future outcomes) the better. The whole point of this part of the process is to narrow the focus on the type of pokemon we want to create.

Hence my submission. Every poll still has options, even if some stand out at first. If someone were to come up with a fresh and unique way to achieve the concept (like your Air Lock idea), it would be all the better. It would provide more insight to the competitive metagme which is the point of this project.

 

[Selphimist]

Name: Bench Damage
Description: Like damaging Pokemon on the Bench in the TCG version of Pokemon, Bench Damage Pokemon damage opposing Pokemon not in battle.