CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 9 (Main Ability Discussion)

[Dane]

rapid spin... that would certainly give it a purpose. we can't give it a healing move if we do that because think about it: this thing is forretress and togekiss combined!

It could still very easily have a healing move. Just have to be careful and make it an egg move.

I dont really see the problem with number 1 as those other Spinners are clearly not capable of doing their job... would it really be a shame to outclass our already sub-par spinners?

Outclassing is one thing. Making them obsolete is another.

The only commonly used entry hazard is SR which is by far one of the most broken moves in the game. Making an easy way to remove them is the only way to balance it out. It takes two turns to remove the SR in most cases, and only one to set it up.

Have you been on the CaP server? Every entry hazard is being thrown around there. Spikes not so much, but they do come up. Toxic Spikes and Stealth Rock are shown in hordes though.

RS also makes Life Orb/Choice items almost non-viable (there goes our monsters LO unless you want to waste 10% spinning once), so that could help balance our creature out as it won't be a super powerful sweeper without a boosting item/move.

The spinner set would be like Tentacruel, except able to hit without breaking it's leg!


And yes, GT, add Scrappy to the list.

 

[Aldaron]

Tentacruel absorbs T.Spikes though, something very handy when you don't have time to Rapid Spin (only to switch in).

Anyway, I also find it hilarious that some people are claiming that this Pokemon cannot do anything very well...Seems like it utilizes its offensive STAB potential backed by decent Special Attack to effectively become arguably the best mixed wall in the game...yes, even better than Cresselia. Leech Seed + Fire STAB is such an awesome combination that even with inferior defensive stats, I think this can surpass Cresselia in mixed walling.

That isn't to say, however, that Cresselia is in any way outclassed. It is not, at all. Cresselia still keeps its niche (mixed wall immune to Toxic Spikes / Spikes + CM), but this thing for sure surpasses it in other areas.

After the "let's just throw moves arbitrarily on Syclant" mixed sweeping fanboyism and after the "let's create a Pokemon with the best offensive STAB in the game...plus let's make it Specially Defensive with Bulk Up, a STAB priority move and potential one turn Full Restore" fanboyism of Revenankh, I think all the input from the community for this project is allowing us to create a more balanced (I don't mean in terms of stats, think about it for a second) "creation."

 

[Kira]

Actually to be honest I have not been on the CAP server at all. Though you just gave the the idea of using my TS/S/SR team there.

I had no idea entry hazards were so common.

Also we would not be making those other spinners obsolete as our creature cannot switch into T-spikes

 

[Dane]

Actually to be honest I have not been on the CAP server at all. Though you just gave the the idea of using my TS/S/SR team there.

I had no idea entry hazards were so common.

Also we would not be making those other spinners obsolete as our creature cannot switch into T-spikes

Some would become obsolete. Not all, I admit, but many. But yea, ever since Revenankh (perhaps before?), hazards have been very common. I guess having a good, bulky ghost will do that.

 

[Notty]

I like the idea of Scrappy spinning, but I can't help but feel kind of irritated that all the CaP Pokemon keep getting some sort of way to deal with entry hazards.

Scylant - Mountaineer
Revanankh - Shed Skin for Poison Spikes and lolGhost

And now Scrappy spinning maybe for Woodman. I know that entry hazards are a huge part of the metagame, but geez.

 

[yoshi!]

I'd say the one that burns you with a physical attack would be good on this one.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

I like the idea of Scrappy spinning, but I can't help but feel kind of irritated that all the CaP Pokemon keep getting some sort of way to deal with entry hazards.

It's because people hate entry hazards so very much.

BTW, I know it's late and all but Rampardos doesn't have Rock Head as an ability and everything about him justify Rock Head. Seem having a head of rock doesn't alway means you can get Rock Head.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

I'm changing my vote from Battle Armour/Sniper to Battle Armour/Scrappy, and giving it Rapid Spin.

That was a good idea.

 

[Hazmat]

Why do we have to put scrappyspin on this guy when we could easily make a better-thought-out scrappy spinner on our next CAP? Everything is going pretty fast, and the flavor is being compromised. Either that, or have people design the art AFTER you give him a movelist.

 

[latinoheat]

What the fuck do people want from this thing though a physical attacker, a sunny day abuser, an anti wall, a rapid spinner i don't know about everyone else but id rather make it really good at one thing at most two then competent in all of them but outclassed by various pokemon.

I think this typing and spread has much better ways of supporting a team mainly Screens,Leech Seed,Aroma,Sleep Absorber. Do we really need something that can do so many different support aspects, it overcentralises things if one pokemon can do a host of things really well.

 

[Dane]

Why do we have to put scrappyspin on this guy when we could easily make a better-thought-out scrappy spinner on our next CAP? Everything is going pretty fast, and the flavor is being compromised. Either that, or have people design the art AFTER you give him a movelist.

If Kabutops can spin, this can too. I can imagine it expelling steam from it's cannons to create propulsion and spinning in such a way. It's more than I can say for Kabutops and his "I gotz sickles" mantra.

As for flavor... what flavor? That's the problem that brough Mekkah to declare a spinner. It had no flavor, outside of beasty STABs.

 

[Notty]

It's because people hate entry hazards so very much.

BTW, I know it's late and all but Rampardos doesn't have Rock Head as an ability and everything about him justify Rock Head. Seem having a head of rock doesn't alway means you can get Rock Head.

Rampardos not getting Rock Head is like Aerodactyl not getting Head Smash.

Rampardos/Aerodactyl + Rock Head + STAB Head Smash = Over-fucking-powered.

 

[Hazmat]

I guess spinning would work, considering pokemon's other array of conceptually-challenged rapid spinners. Dunno, it just seems to me that everyone is grasping at straws for what to make this guy into sometimes.
"Sunny day sweeper?"
"Nah, too bulky"
"Leeching tank killer?"
"Meh"
"Tank?"
"Meh"
"Umm... Scrappy spinner?"
"Yeah!"
I don't mean to shoot anything down (my mistake on the spinning, in the pokemon world damn near anything can rapid spin I suppose), I'm just hoping that excellent artistic vision most people agreed upon isn't thrown to the wayside.

 

[Bluekikatana]

I don't think this should get scrappy spin, as great as that sounds. I think the next CAP will end up being poison, which will focus on toxic spikes, and more on spinning. I say give that one scrappy spin. This one is already powerful enough, and being weak to stealth rocks does help its power issue, even just a bit.

 

[Karrot]

Wait on the Rapid Spinner, guys. We don't want to clutter this Pokemon with every single "good" strategy we can think of. Besides, this Pokemon is already suffering from not being able to use more than four moves.

---

Now, I'm going to refresh everyone on the ideas I proposed in Part 5:
Lava Plume/Grass Knot/Leech Seed/Rest - The ideal set. Pressure compliments this set perfectly! A defensive Pokemon with Leech Seeding, Burning, and PP Stalling potential? I love it.

(P.S. "Subseeding" is STILL horrible!)

If everybody wants a Drought Pokemon, wait until the next Pokemon and build it around that idea. Giving this Drought (or an ability much like it) would only make it lose its flavor, because it was not originally built with that in mind.

With everything in mind (and ignoring the possible addition of a 5-turn Drought or something), I think people should realize this should have a Sunny Day set up for it, because this Pokemon's move slots are so precious that it would be a waste to have it set up Sunny Day for itself.

To be honest, with its stats, this Pokemon is quite a mediocre attacker unless you are running it for support. The attacking sets (all of them) are worse than everyone is imagining, and as such I am now willing to test Growth on this Pokemon. Only, however, if its Ability reflects that it may be a powerful Pokemon with Growth.

However, it is definitely a better "wall" than Cresselia because of a support movepool and has a little "umph" to its attacks, so don't even compare it to the Space Duck!

No matter where we turn, this Pokemon will always be good at something. This is quite a hard Pokemon to work with.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

*snip*

I think you're missing the point. It's the fact that a Pokemon, known to have a freakishly hard head doesn't even get the ability at all. If that monster doesn't get Rock Head and he has justification for it out the wazoo, then why can't this thing get it?

Edit: Ability Poll is up.

 

[Notty]

But I'm saying the reason Rampardos didn't get Rock Head has nothing to do with the art. He didn't get it for balance reasons. Apparently, in Nintendo's eyes, game balance trumps art.

 

[Aki]

This thing was to be a Wall breaker. Once the Bulky Steels/Grounds/Waters are gone, then you can have a T-tar/Chomp sweep.

Just for clarification.

 

[Hazmat]

Wait on the Rapid Spinner, guys. We don't want to clutter this Pokemon with every single "good" strategy we can think of. Besides, this Pokemon is already suffering from not being able to use more than four moves.

---

Now, I'm going to refresh everyone on the ideas I proposed in Part 5:
Lava Plume/Grass Knot/Leech Seed/Rest - The ideal set. Pressure compliments this set perfectly! A defensive Pokemon with Leech Seeding, Burning, and PP Stalling potential? I love it.

(P.S. "Subseeding" is STILL horrible!)

If everybody wants a Drought Pokemon, wait until the next Pokemon and build it around that idea. Giving this Drought (or an ability much like it) would only make it lose its flavor, because it was not originally built with that in mind.

With everything in mind (and ignoring the possible addition of a 5-turn Drought or something), I think people should realize this should have a Sunny Day set up for it, because this Pokemon's move slots are so precious that it would be a waste to have it set up Sunny Day for itself.

To be honest, with its stats, this Pokemon is quite a mediocre attacker unless you are running it for support. The attacking sets (all of them) are worse than everyone is imagining, and as such I am now willing to test Growth on this Pokemon. Only, however, if its Ability reflects that it may be a powerful Pokemon with Growth.

However, it is definitely a better "wall" than Cresselia because of a support movepool and has a little "umph" to its attacks, so don't even compare it to the Space Duck!

No matter where we turn, this Pokemon will always be good at something. This is quite a hard Pokemon to work with.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Luck]

Shall I add Scrappy into the list of abilities on the poll? Also I like to say that they're won't be any name change towards abilities. I think that we're all man enough to suck it up and accept it.

Edit: BTW If I remember correctly they were enough talk about Intimidate/Flash Fire in a few threads before this. Going to add them as option too since they got a good deal of attention.

Being one of the main name whiners let me say i have would no choice to suck it up, you are the mod of this cap process you have to final say but trait is suppose reflect the poke you are giving it to and you are in theory giving poke a rock head which has historically been given to pokes who are rocks or heads are as hard rock.I see the woodsman mask as a wooden batman mask or like a witch doctor mask basically masks don't protect just and are there for an effect.You guys see the mask as helmet.People mainly want the ability because of the effect of no recoil, then rationalize the mask as helmet fit the pokemon imo.

Suck it up fine cool ok, but please be real by saying (the people who want the ability)you want the ability because of effect not because it fits the intent of the pokemon who have rock head which are pokemon with a rock hard head.

Not every pokemon with hard head has rock head and you could make arguments for many pokemon with out should have it.Ironically i saw your Rampy post after i start to type this.Every time i look at rock head list on serebi i expect to see it there.If they was ever a poke that should have Rock head then this it.It is Rock poke with huge strong head used to bash stuff but for the same reason our poke if it gets rock head won't get head smash.Rampy probably does not get Rock head,Head Smash with out recoil is bit crazy and something with 165 attack would be ridiculous.So give the designer a little credit for using common sense.

Speaking of common sense changing the name is a solution that would avoid the syclant text entry situation.Where the two pieces of text don't support each other and it look pretty stupid to an outside person who was not a part of polling process .So avoid people with my thinking who see the Woodman mask/helmet from my point view just change the name and eliminate that possible confusion.

I don't even why i am waste my time complain about rock head, i am pretty sure more of the silent minority who vote in polls will vote chlorophyll,solar power,green house,drought,etc before they vote rock head.

 

[latinoheat]

so if this does get greenhouse, can we just already put heatran in garchomp's place. Fuck with Fire Blast+Sunny Day Boost+130 base special. It could probably sweep teams with just choice scarf, its not like much is switching in to fire blast, including blissey.
If this gets greenhouse we basically end up with a fire version of Kyorge that has slightly worse defences but two immunitys and a shit load of resistance.

Fuck leaf guard is too much as well, Sunny Day,Rest,Grass Knot,Fire Blast good look taking that down unless your one of three pokemon.

If you want auto Sunny Day you give it to a pokemon that has a huge risk factor(Abomasnow= shitty stats, 7 weakness), not something that is basically guarenteed OU already. Unless you want tyranitar version 2 whose weather is even better then sandstorm.

 

[Dane]

so if this does get greenhouse, can we just already put heatran in garchomp's place. Fuck with Fire Blast+Sunny Day Boost+130 base special. It could probably sweep teams with just choice scarf, its not like much is switching in to fire blast, including blissey.
If this gets greenhouse we basically end up with a fire version of Kyorge that has slightly worse defences but two immunitys and a shit load of resistance.

I agree. This is why I wanted it to be more like a combination of Air Lock's timer (only while he's in play) and Sunny Day's priority (so it doesn't override incoming weather).

Fuck leaf guard is too much as well, Sunny Day,Rest,Grass Knot,Fire Blast good look taking that down unless your one of three pokemon.

Pretty sure Leaf Guard doesn't protect you against your own status effects.

If you want auto Sunny Day you give it to a pokemon that has a huge risk factor(Abomasnow= shitty stats, 7 weakness), not something that is basically guarenteed OU already. Unless you want tyranitar version 2 whose weather is even better then sandstorm.

As stated above, I agree. I want the ability, but only while Woodman is in play.

 

[latinoheat]

basically would you give a bulkier swampert auto rain.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Being one of the main name whiners let me say i have would no choice to suck it up, you are the mod of this cap process you have to final say but trait is suppose reflect the poke you are giving it to and you are in theory giving poke a rock head which has historically been given to pokes who are rocks or heads are as hard rock. I see the woodsman mask as a wooden batman mask or like a witch doctor mask basically masks don't protect just and are there for an effect.You guys see the mask as helmet.People mainly want the ability because of the effect of no recoil, then rationalize the mask as helmet fit the Pokemon imo.

I wouldn't trying to point people out so don't take what I said too personal here. Yes people want the ability for it's effect only, it's really easy to see. The real reason why I'm against a forced name change is because it's not 100% needed. Rock Head just implies you have a really hard head right? A wooden mask/helmet is somewhat a stretch you can pull a PokeDex entry on it and say something that connect having a hard head with it's mask, which is probably hard already since its an Ironwood tree lizard.

Not every pokemon with hard head has rock head and you could make arguments for many pokemon with out should have it. Ironically i saw your Rampy post after i start to type this. Every time i look at rock head list on serebii I expect to see it there. If they was ever a poke that should have Rock head then this it. It is Rock poke with huge strong head used to bash stuff but for the same reason our poke if it gets rock head won't get head smash. Rampy probably does not get Rock head,Head Smash with out recoil is bit crazy and something with 165 attack would be ridiculous. So give the designer a little credit for using common sense.

Okay, technically I could have given the creator some credit when it comes to making very important involving Rampy and Rock Head. This feel weird the fact that Rampy doesn't have Rock Head when he's made for it.

Speaking of common sense changing the name is a solution that would avoid the syclant text entry situation.Where the two pieces of text don't support each other and it look pretty stupid to an outside person who was not a part of polling process. So avoid people with my thinking who see the Woodman mask/helmet from my point view just change the name and eliminate that possible confusion.

Changing the name to something like Petrified Wood or something is still confusing in sense. Petrified Wood imply it's that his helmet/mask is now stone and not wood.

 

[Dane]

basically would you give a bulkier swampert auto rain.

If it was only available while he was in play, sure why not.