CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 1 (Main type)

[latinoheat]

auto rain dance teams are really overpowered thats why, notice how auto rain dance teams are among the best teams you can have in the fucking uber tier. Not to mention the amount of water pokemon in OU

There is a whole 2 good fire types(ape,heatran), by my count (though not overall as high quality) there are probably 4 good electric pokemon(zapdos,vire,raikou,magnezone)

 

[AJC]

Fire REALLY needs something that can show off the second most numerous resists in the game without being crap like magcargo or dirt slow like Torkoal

 

[gorm]

You're taking the sympathy vote. That's sorta sad. The idea of the CAP is to balance and improve the metagame. We have got enough good fire types; we don't have enough electric ones.

"hey dont vote for fire because it's a sympathy vote

also vote electric there aren't enough good ones"


._. let people vote what they want, especially with this kind of reasoning.

 

[Dane]

You're taking the sympathy vote. That's sorta sad. The idea of the CAP is to balance and improve the metagame. We have got enough good fire types; we don't have enough electric ones.

And that's not just trying to garner a sympathy vote for electric? I don't disagree with your statement, just saying it's rather hypocritical to denounce a sympathy vote and then make a claim that sounds similar to asking for sympathy votes. =P

And why not? We have auto-sandstorm in two already awesome pokémon, and auto-hail in a surprisingly useful (yet not amazing at all) one. Another way of negating SS or Hail would be good. And if Fire wins, I'd seriously consider Drought as an ability, if it fits.

Having all the weathers on OU would be great.

The number of Pokemon affected by auto-rain and auto-sun are much greater than those affected by auto-hail, and the impact is much greater than those affected by auto-sand. Honestly I'd love them in OU, since my favorite type is fire and I like swift swimmers, but it would shift the metagame into a completely new zone, ESPECIALLY if we don't implement both a drizzler and droughter at the same time.

there are probably 4 good electric pokemon(zapdos,vire,raikou,magnezone)

Holy crap I forgot Magnezone was electric. I keep thinking he's mono-steel for some reason.

 

[Karrot]

Unresisted(except by Heatran) STAB moves, the possibility of Levitate(though unlikely, as that may make it a bit too strong), and rediculous potential(The new SpecsMence but better - Fire Blast, Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, and HP ground/Earth Power/HP fight) sucks? Please explain to me, I don't understand. It is a somewhat common type combo in fakemons, but why does that mean it sucks and we shouldn't use it?

My useage of the word "suck" was meant to be playful (as I would never use that word in a righteous argument), but that's besides the point.

You pretty much summed up why I dislike the typing in a way that I could just ask you to read your post again. But:

Fire/Dragon is one of the best (if not, the best) attacking combination in the game. Add to the fact that nearly every Pokemon, except for novelty Pokemon like Wobbuffet, can obtain Hidden Power means that you can deal massive damage to every typing in the game.

It has "ridiculous potential," and that only means it can too easily sway itself to the uber tier and beyond.

I think there's good logic behind why Gamefreak have stayed away from it for four generations.

I also said it has high potential to become a fan-boy Pokemon, which you literally explained by stating its existence in "Fakemons," which are created by fanboys of all kinds.

 

[User 12783]

Fire

This is my vote and to explain it, I will say that I used the process of elimination. You have 4 types gone right off the bat because of previous CAPs, and these are Ice, Bug, Ghost, and Fighting.

We also have enough Dragon, Steel, Ground, Water, Psychic and Flying.

This leaves us with the options of Dark, Electric, Fire, Grass, Normal, Poison, and Rock. Out of these Fire needs more Pokemon, and an expansion in its category. This means it's array of Pokemon are limited and this number has to increase.

 

[Dane]

While I agree with Karrot that Fire/Dragon is ridiculously powerful typing, if we made it like Kingdra it wouldn't be too bad. On the other hand, it wouldn't be too good either. >_>

 

[Mystica]

I see alot of Fire and Electric votes! But, I like Dark pokemon for some reason. I would like to see some more Darks in OU, rather than the ever so common Tyranitar and Weavile. Something like /ground has no 4x resistances, has immunity to 2 common move types and gets STAB on a good attacking combination with EQ and Crunch, or even Earth power and Dark pulse. Or even Dark/Steel with levitate would be kinda cool hehe

And I'm not sure why you guys want more Fire pokemon... I mean Infernape, Heatran, Charizard, Moltres. Fire is kinda weak typing if you think about it. All of the pure Fire types like Arcanine and Typhlosion are just decent at best. And what Fire typing wouldn't be "crappy typing?" So far, steel works really well. I cant think of another besides lol/dragon

 

[SgtWoodsy]

Fire in the hole.

In all seriousness, I'd like to see a good Fire-type that isn't Infernape/Heatran. Hopefully we can make one.

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

I want a Steel/Dragon not named Dialga!

For that reason I choice Steel

 

[Aki]

And that's not just trying to garner a sympathy vote for electric? I don't disagree with your statement, just saying it's rather hypocritical to denounce a sympathy vote and then make a claim that sounds similar to asking for sympathy votes. =P

If the idea of the CAP is to balance and improve the metagame we need a metagame not rules by one role of pokemon. There are more competitive/good fires than electrics. I'm not sympathy voting, i'm voting with the idea that electric needs the most improveing, like Syclant with bug and Revenankh with Ghost. (Mind you, revenankh was Physical ghosts). You cannot vote with your heart in this.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

And I'm not sure why you guys want more Fire pokemon... I mean Infernape, Heatran, Charizard, Moltres.

Charizard and Moltres aren't used in OU due to their Stealth Rock weakness. Most people are probably voting for fire because they want a good fire type that isn't SR weak.

Fire is kinda weak typing if you think about it.

Weak in the sense of offensively or defensively?

 

[darkie]

Hopefully, we can make an Electric type with a bigger movepool than Substitute, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power.

 

[SirRaven]

We have little to no usable Poison types apart from Weezing. Game Freak's just showing no love for the poor guys.

I weep for the Arbok. :'[

 

[Dane]

If the idea of the CAP is to balance and improve the metagame we need a metagame not rules by one role of pokemon. There are more competitive/good fires than electrics. I'm not sympathy voting, i'm voting with the idea that electric needs the most improveing, like Syclant with bug and Revenankh with Ghost. (Mind you, revenankh was Physical ghosts). You cannot vote with your heart in this.

Metagame != Type

You can improve the metagame without having to improve a specific type, unless that type alone would assist in fixing the metagame (similar to Bug and Ice assisting in fixing it). Zapdos and Magnezone are still good electric Pokemon, and used quite a bit. Electivire was seen as extremely powerful for quite a while, and is still OU I believe. If I'm not mistaken, there's also Jolteon. That's four OU Electrics to Fire's two.

OU List

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

^Dane's got a point there. All 4 of them are in the top 40 most used Pokemon for Shoddy

 

[Magmortified]

Hopefully, we can make an Electric type with a bigger movepool than Substitute, Thunderbolt, Hidden Power.

^^ This. Right here.

Electric types have had a similar mold over the generations. I think the CAP can break that, and do so effectively. If you want to make a Fire type, sure. Go for it. But, personally, I want to see the CAP project move in the "Benefactor of the poor saps Nintendo cheated" direction this time - even if it's just once or so. Fire and Electric seem like good places to start, I just feel that, since Electric seems even more monotonous than Fire...

Boy, considering my name is Magmortified, I just commited high treason.

 

[Karrot]

You cannot vote with your heart in this.

This is false! I voted for Fire with a lot of heart (I've been longing for this project to put together a Fire/Grass type for a long time!), and I still provided valid reasons why I wanted it!

 

[Admiral_Stalfos19]

Now I feel like a black sheep. No-one else voted for Steel

 

[latinoheat]

is there going to be a 2nd poll when electric/fire end up being nearly tied for votes or is it most voted type goes through no matter what.

 

[flygon493]

My useage of the word "suck" was meant to be playful (as I would never use that word in a righteous argument), but that's besides the point.

You pretty much summed up why I dislike the typing in a way that I could just ask you to read your post again.

Misread, sorry, I actually thought you meant it was bad, but you mean it's too good. I was actually thinking that we could lower its stats(like kingdra), so it wouldn't be so overpowering.

Fire/Dragon is one of the best (if not, the best) attacking combination in the game. Add to the fact that nearly every Pokemon, except for novelty Pokemon like Wobbuffet, can obtain Hidden Power means that you can deal massive damage to every typing in the game.

You mean like Revanankh's Ghost/Fighting combo(although that's different in that it is used defensively, and this would be used purely for attacking purposes)? It had base 105 attack if I'm not mistaken, decent enough to be a threat, and has bulk up to increase the damage from its ghost type attacks. Seriously, If we just down its offensive stats(not too low, but not like base 120, maybe like base 90-100), it won't be doing too much to cause mass chaos.

It has "ridiculous potential," and that only means it can too easily sway itself to the uber tier and beyond.

I thought that's where Syclant was heading, too, but we found a way to curve it(bad defences and horrible defensive typing).

I think there's good logic behind why Gamefreak have stayed away from it for four generations.

Yet this generation they give us Garchomp, the most threatening Pokemon in the OU metagame. I understand that it has a big Ice weakness, but there are many ways it has around that(Sand Veil, yache berry, its bulky defenses). And, this will be SR weak, so it has 4 chances to inflict damage before it dies. If we give it the weaker Offenses(90-100), it will almost rely on Specs(much like Starmie) to inflict massive damage, as it won't be scoring many SEs on its foes with its main attack type(dragon only hits dragon, and I assume it would be mainly using Dragon Pulse).

I also said it has high potential to become a fan-boy Pokemon, which you literally explained by stating its existence in "Fakemons," which are created by fanboys of all kinds.

Well, aren't all CAP pokes technically "Fakemon?" And if we curve it by lowering its stats or giving it an unfavorable trait to weaken it, then it more than likely won't become the all powerful fanboy creation you are fearing.

 

[Dane]

is there going to be a 2nd poll when electric/fire end up being nearly tied for votes or is it most voted type goes through no matter what.

Should be a One-Day spillover/run-off poll.

 

[Karrot]

Well, I won't respond to most of that post, flygon493, because I have already made my strongest points, and you can counter them but they still remain strong.

I will say, however, that Ghost/Fighting is different from Fire/Dragon in that there is a typing that can completely wall it without having a weakness to another type, whilst Fire/Dragon can hit everything neutral off STAB attacks and hit super effective those that resist it.

Also, the greatest difference between Smogon's "Fakemons" and others is that we are inspired competitively, whilst others are not.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

is there going to be a 2nd poll when electric/fire end up being nearly tied for votes or is it most voted type goes through no matter what.

Like what Dane said, they're will be a spillover thread for the top two to four types.

 

[Chaos Wolf]

My vote goes to Poison. Most of the reasons that the others have stated seem reasonable. Besides, I figure a Fire/Poison will be the outcome if either of these two are the winner.

I have been watching the CAP project since about when Syclant was wrapping up, I didn't have an account when Revenankh started. I am amazed at how well this has been going, and would like to help out in the "Concept Art" Section more than anything else.