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CAP 2 Smogon "Create a Pokemon" Part Deux: Poll 3
- Thread starter Hyra
- Start date
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Says the guy who wants Levitate. Okay, yah, sure. First of all, most Pokemon can have up to 545 BST. Second of all, 580 means it is a legendary trio Pokemon, aka not a Banette evo, aka has an extremely limited movepool. 600 BST may mean that, or it may also mean almost broken like any other 600 BST. By the way, Infernape has 535 BST; Lucario has 525 BST. BST =/= broken or not.
togekiss is the only pokemon that has 545 BST
and about the ghost/steel levitate thing. simply don't give it that good of a movepool, just like you said about 600 bst. I guess I'm contradicting myself a bit, but alot of people will try to give it a good movepool regardless because we will most likely only have 1 600 bst out of all the ones we make.
seriously it's not that hard to balance out a pokemon if you can do whatever the hell you want with it's stats and movepool. I'm fucking tired of hearing ZOMG GHOST/STEEL W1TH LEVITATE UBERZ 1IMPOSSIBLE 2 COUNTERZ!!11!!!11
Then why don't you want it to have more BST if we can balance it with movepool?
Also, Blissey has 545 BST. I know there are more than Togekiss. Unfortunately, I don't know where there is a BST list, and I don't feel like adding all the numbers up from serebii.
600 bst isn't nessesary. we already made one with 555. not all of our pokemon need to have 555+ bst regardless of a lackluster movepool or not.
blissey has 540 Bst. along with electivire and magmortar, and maybe a few others.
We could make the options 550, 525, 500, and anything less. Nice and even numbers to work with!
Togekiss is the only Pokemon with 545 BST, but that's relativly superflous. Anything with over 555 (arcanine, highest non legendary, non retarded trait, non base 600 BST) BST and we would have to make this thing legendary. Personly I'd go for options like Uber, 600, 555-535, 535-515, 515-500, >500.
But really, do we need a poll? Between 545 and 500 seems to be the way to go here!
But really, do we need a poll? Between 545 and 500 seems to be the way to go here!
Straight from Serebii, here's the 535-545 crew. Pretty good pokes, methinks.
45 / 100 #468 Togekiss 545
46 / 100 #130 Gyarados 540
47 / 100 #143 Snorlax 540
48 / 100 #230 Kingdra 540
49 / 100 #242 Blissey 540
50 / 100 #350 Milotic 540
51 / 100 #466 Electivire 540
52 / 100 #467 Magmortar 540
53 / 100 #131 Lapras 535
54 / 100 #169 Crobat 535
55 / 100 #260 Swampert 535
56 / 100 #462 Magnezone 535
57 / 100 #464 Rhyperior 535
58 / 100 #465 Tangrowth 535
59 / 100 #474 Porygon-Z 535
45 / 100 #468 Togekiss 545
46 / 100 #130 Gyarados 540
47 / 100 #143 Snorlax 540
48 / 100 #230 Kingdra 540
49 / 100 #242 Blissey 540
50 / 100 #350 Milotic 540
51 / 100 #466 Electivire 540
52 / 100 #467 Magmortar 540
53 / 100 #131 Lapras 535
54 / 100 #169 Crobat 535
55 / 100 #260 Swampert 535
56 / 100 #462 Magnezone 535
57 / 100 #464 Rhyperior 535
58 / 100 #465 Tangrowth 535
59 / 100 #474 Porygon-Z 535
Anyways, I agree that 600 BST is overkill. That doesn't stop it from being a valid option. It was an option last time, and lost. Most people here are aiming for 520-530 BST. Maybe if you read the thread, you would get this.
Edit:
Oh wow. I thought a lot of the Pokemon that had 540 BST were 545 BST. I guess I got them mixed up.
Here ya go Hyra
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/file/925602/48581
I still think we go 545-500 and skip the BST poll.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/portable/ds/file/925602/48581
I still think we go 545-500 and skip the BST poll.
A BST level doesn't guarantee anything - you can cripple it with its movepool (Flareon) or give it great typing (Forretress at 465).
Maybe ask the people you want to design stats what three options they would like to see in the 545-500 range. They probably have at least one or two BSTs in mind already.
Maybe ask the people you want to design stats what three options they would like to see in the 545-500 range. They probably have at least one or two BSTs in mind already.
Medium. Because i want it to be more defensive based, but would still be able to try and outrun everything if need be.
EDIT: I still stick with this stat spread as my preferred: 75/100/90/80/95/85 (BST: 525). It makes for a nice Blissey counter as it resists Seismic Toss, and will be able to take an Ice Beam and hit back with a STAB Focus Punch/Superpower/Close Combat/Cross Chop/whatever. It wont be doing too much to many other walls, however (except maybe Regice).
EDIT: I still stick with this stat spread as my preferred: 75/100/90/80/95/85 (BST: 525). It makes for a nice Blissey counter as it resists Seismic Toss, and will be able to take an Ice Beam and hit back with a STAB Focus Punch/Superpower/Close Combat/Cross Chop/whatever. It wont be doing too much to many other walls, however (except maybe Regice).
ZING!
525 does seem pretty popular. With Lower speed, a higher BST is just gonna end up in a kinda unbalanced atk/spatk/hp
We've already given this thing great typing. if we give him a 600 BST then he's going to have to have the movepool of a Wobba not to be OU, unless he gets an incredibly shitty ability.
We're not going to change this into a Banette evolution. We voted on New Pokemon, and we're going to stick with that.
It should be an option. Based on the Syclant poll, I don't think many people will vote for it.
Hyra -- Here's some range suggestions for the poll. Just a suggestion...
580+
550-579
526-549
500-525
Lumping 580+ into one category is for fairness to all those that want a huge BST. To fracture this into a bunch of different votes is guaranteeing a big BST won't win. I don't want a legendary BST, but I also don't like steering polls.
The 550-579 range is pretty worthless, since no existing pokemon really fit into this category. But, it's the next logical range of numbers.
The next two are key. I split the range into "High OU" (526-549) and "OU" (500-525). I specifically changed the split number at 525, with it in the lower range. I think most people arguing for OU, seem to be capping at 525. Everyone endorsing High OU, seem to start at about 530. If the 525 number is not included in the lower range, people who want 525 MAXIMUM, might be encouraged to bump their vote up to High OU.
I'm listing this out because I recall the Syclant BST polls had some key BST numbers in the "wrong" ranges, IMO. I remember having trouble voting because of the exact dividing number. Also, the ranges were too spread out into too many little ranges. Based on discussions, it seems like we can divide everyone into three "camps" (Legendary, High OU, and OU). The ranges I'm suggesting are to give each camp a fair chance.
This set is not based around Trick room gimmick, i only mentioned it as a possible way for this pokemon to function. Spiritomb's speed is about as bad as this, and yet it's OU. Dusknoir's speed is barely better that this, and people still use it.
Besides, this set was based off of Swampert. I understand how great of a pokemon Swampert is, and my set is sort of a Swampert with more defenses and less SpA and Spd. It also functions like a Swampert, defensive tank with offensive capabilities. It's a Swampert in disguise, that's what it is.
Although you do have a point with the speed part, i just kept it low cuz i needed a couple of stats to nerf in order to keep it under the 525 mark (Which apparently if you went over, people would scream BROKEN!!! then proceed to flame you to hell. Although from this reply, it seems that people on Smogon are just waiting to flame someone to hell anyways.)
It might have been the "LOL your spreads are condemning this to BL, here, see my superior spread (in which I nerf speed and SA to add to other stats) to see how it's done" that got you a much deserved hazing. Don't barge in here pretending to be an expert and blasting other people's work and then whine when you get brought down a notch.
As it stands your spread does fall within the lines of the spreads, e.g. balanced offensive-defensive and physical leaning, but it's attacking other spreads instead of promoting discussion that got you in trouble.
Even still, I don't particularly like spreads that are particularly gerrymandered around ignoring an offense and speed to boost the other stats, it doesn't come accross well from a conceptual perspective.
Hmm...
I prefered my take which leaned more towards defense (but still had competent offense), but it strikes me as a bit odd to have so much more HP than either defense. The only real exception to this among ghosts is Drifblim. It's rather the same with fighting, the exception there being Hariyama. (Both of them have massive HP and meh defenses.)
It just doesn't "feel" like a Ghost or Fighting type spread.
It'd "feel" more like a Ghost or Fighting if you moved 25 BST from HP and distributed 5 each to Attack SA, and SD, and 10 to Speed, leaving 85/100/90/80/75/95.
I grant that this is much less durable than your original spread, but it seems more purposeful in that with a +Speed nature it can at least be non-speed base 105s, and it has a bit more offensive prowess.
Other than my weird "feelings" and general observations about Ghost and Fighting pokemon spreads, there's nothing specifically wrong with it, but it just seems to be unfocused in purpose. It ties with Hera in base speed but doesn't seem to do anything particularly well offensively.
Alternatively you could swap your HP and Defense (90/95/110/75/70/85) bases and you'd arive at something more in line with general Ghost or Fighting spreads. They inevitably have about equal HP and Defenses, except among a few Ghosts that have high defenses and crap HP. Fighters usually have more attack than HP, except in the case of Hariyama, which still has a massive attack stat.
Just reposting this since it seems much more relavent now. With such great resistances, this pokemon really doesn't need massive defenses (at least in my opinion). As long as he has adequate defenses to really utilize his resistances to their fullest extent, he can be very effective in taking resisted hits. I like the whole Swampert archetype, but I think a slightly more offensive aproach would be a little better. Basically - a pokemon that is very useful in filling defensive holes on your team, but can also be threatening enough offensively, similar to the pokemon I already mentioned like Scizor, Gallade, and Heatran (to a lesser extent).
So yeah I'm proposing something like 85 / 120 / 105 / 70 / 80 / 65 - a BST of 525, give or take 5 in any stat I guess. It has adequate defensive for taking resisted hits very well, and enough attack to be an offensive threat. I don't know, this kind of set just seems to me like it would be more effective than something like 100 / 90 / 100 / 80 / 95 / 70 like most people are suggesting. To me that isn't balanced, that's just bad defensive. This typing has so much potential that it seems like a waste to make such a middling pokemon. I mean even Swampert has that nice 110 attack to work with if he feels like it.
As for the BST, I think 525 - 535 seems like enough, considering the great typing, but it really depends on how it gets spread. Anyway, that's just my take on the matter - think whatever you want of it.
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