CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 5 (Build)

[chronostrike]

Unfortunately, it doesn't have all those HPs at once.

Garchomp doesn't always have Fire Blast. Does that mean it's okay to switch in Skarmory? It doesn't always have Crunch. Is it okay to switch in Cresselia? Fire Fang->Bronzong?

Toxic Stall Cresslia might work.

Sure, that sounds fair.

If you predict correctly (or even if you don't, since only HP rock and Overheat do much of anything), the Pokemon itself functions as a perfectly viable counter to itself. Bring it in on Leaf Storm, Leech Seed, or HP not Rock and then force it out with Toxic/HP Rock/Whatever we end up giving this Pokemon.

This doesn't work on speed centered pokemon. Toxic vs Toxic will just hurt both of you, HP rock vs HP rock is a speed gamble, and HP rock vs Toxic is a gamble on exactly how bulky this pokemon is.
More importantly, if the premier counter for this pokemon is this pokemon, that's just even more reason to use it, driving up its usage and centralizing the metagame. A pokemon should never be considered a counter for itself even if it can.

Also, who said we're giving this Pokemon both Leaf Storm and Overheat?

Deck Knight and Helios

----------

I have finished rough versions of my concept art for this pokemon if anyone is interested.
Pre-evo:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/Toy_Box/Plantlioncub.png
Female:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/Toy_Box/Plantlioness.png
Male:
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa79/Toy_Box/Plantlion.png

 

[Dane]

Which post did you edit? I'm not sure which you're talking about, and why it would be a "nice try". As for going back and correcting myself, you mean like you did about explaining why the spread is better, which you didn't do until after I called you on not explaining it? It goes both ways.

I never called you uncivilized or disrespectful. I said you were acting like an ass, which I admit might've been a little much and I apologize for that, but go back and read some of those posts you made. You came off as very arrogant. I don't see why you felt yourself a victim then (now that others have jumped in I can see, but back then?), since you started by acting arrogant, stating I was spreading false information (a non arrogant way to state this is just to say "This is wrong and here's why"), and even calling Deck Knight "so dense it's amazing". Do you not see that statement as being arrogant, and somewhat of an ass?

As for your explaination, I agree you were being perfectly civilized at that point. I had no problems with it, it explained it very well, and I understood it. It was a few posts afterwards when you stated that it was common knowledge and that I essentially didn't know Pokemon because I didn't know it that I got insulted again.

And you can't expect people to do their own research to learn the reasoning behind your spreads. That's why you're supposed to stat the reasoning with your spreads, because you're trying to convince others, they aren't supposed to take your spreads and convince themselves in your place. Posting spreads does not explain why one thing is better. It just shows what you're comparing, but not why they work that way.


@chrono: It could use more fire, and I'm not sure how much I like the color scheme.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Do we really want a pokemon who relies on sunny day for it's ability to sweep?

Hell no. Sure having the power to outspeed almost everyone is great in all, but I don't want it to rely on it 100% of the time to do anything. I prefer to have enough speed to work well without the sun being over it's head 24/7.

 

[Mekkah]

Guys, debate is what it's all about. But let's not get personal here. Not only is this just Pokemon, it is debating a Pokemon that doesn't exist (even less so than Digimon!). I'm not going to individually call people out but you guys know to which it applies. In the end, it's a democracy and everyone has the same voting power. You don't have to convince each other and you don't have to put all your money on one horse to try and get it right. If a debate is running stale and it starts to get personal, it might be better to just drop it.

 

[Dane]

(even less so than Digimon!)

This reminds me, why isn't there an angel Pokemon? I demand an Angemon!

As for the rest of Mekkah's post, I agree and will no longer respond to that general subject as it's gone too far for too long.

 

[chronostrike]

Bigger fire or more places on the picture?

 

[Dane]

More places. Remember, it's a fire pokemon first and foremost. The male version only having a fire mane and the female having no fire just doesn't work.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

There will likely be a one day Base Stat Total poll. Either during or after, GT can either have people submit their spreads or ask specific people for their ideas. Up to him.

I have like five specific people I going to be asking for spreads already in mind. Two of them have little badge(es) above their names. *coughAldaron&Mekkahcough*

 

[Hyra]

yeah....

style and build definitely need to be one day long. You guys spent over a page arguing over a very minute detail.

/start new thread? wait.... this has only barely been open for one day. Ack... you guys get way too personal.

 

[Metallic]

I think it should be:

Offensive: Physical (Preferably with Power Whip and Flare Blitz)
Defensive: Special (Decent HP in the ~90 range, Defense in the ~80 range, Sp Def in the ~100 range)
Speed: Fast (Higher than 90, preferably)

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Thank goodness for not having a definite timetable for this poll xD. The only thing that seem truly a tough call is speed. Fast and Medium are like 4 point between them lol

 

[Dane]

Could always just leave that open on the bst then, with bottom of medium being one edge and top of fast being the other. That or a run-off thread that goes on while art/bs_total goes on.

 

[CardsOfTheHeart]

Since I have a 100/75/79/115/94/82 spread in mind (Wait, I don't have to keep emphasizing that):

Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium

This is my vote.

 

[Kingdrom]

Here is my vote:

Offense: Mixed, leaning towards physical
Defense: Physical
Speed: Fast

This is the spread in mind I used when voting:
(in the format of HP/ATK/DEF/SP. ATK/SP. DEF/SPD)

85/98/111/90/80/106

BST: 570

Base 85 HP yields 374 HP level 100. 369 HP is good enough as it allows near perfect leftovers recovery and 4 switches into stealth rock. Base 98 attack yields 324 level max. It isn't much, but it is enough for people to use a move like Flare Blitz or Power Whip effectively.

Base 111 defense allows it to take random STAB hits (Garchomp Outrage, maybe?). I didn't have a particular reason for this, it can be toyed with if nessecary. Base 90 sp. atk is an important number, as it reaches just enough to OHKO the Dragons with HP Ice all the time with Life Orb. It also seperates itself from Heatran with a lower special attack.

Base 80 special defense allows it to switch into some weak hits with its decent resistances. The most important number is probably speed: At Base 106, it comfortably outspeeds Chomp. It also outspeeds neutral nature Alakazam and other base 120's with a +nature.

With this spread, this pokemon would be an effective subseeder, creating powerful subs that can still be replenished relatively quickly (yes it is a compromise). His great speed allows him to put up a sub before the enemy attacks.

 

[Boingo]

Sorry, off topic question, but: The artwork thread is next, right? I just want to know whether I have to hurry up with my design.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

Could always just leave that open on the bst then, with bottom of medium being one edge and top of fast being the other.

Or I could just randomly pick a speed placement for it and call it a day? Aslo I though we decided to get rid of the BST poll for some reason?

That or a run-off thread that goes on while art/bs_total goes on.

Almost forgot about the art poll, may as well open it up now.

 

[chronostrike]

@Kingdrom
That BST is really high. The only pokemon with higher base stats than that that aren't legendaries are mence, chomp, nite, gross, tar, and slaking.

 

[Dane]

Aslo I though we decided to get rid of the BST poll for some reason?

This post sums it up pretty well.

 

[Friction]

I like the idea of this new pokémon being a mean special wall as it has amazing potential for support, reliable recovery, and a few powerful attacking moves with it as well.

My vote goes too

Offensive: Physical
Although i say physical i don't think it should be overly powerful. I'm envisioning torterra esque in most aspects here. Also potential STAB power whip and flare blitz would be very messy in OU running off a high base attack.

Defensive: Mixed
High in all with a preference for special to slow down power houses such as heatran and azelf, possibly gengar too.

Speed: Slow
The only reason i vote slow is because a wall doesn't need speed too much and this leaves more room for investment into the defensive stats.

 

[Tsukikage]

Offensive: Mixed Toward Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast

I just did about 30 minutes worth of math averaging out all of the Grass and Fire Pokes, once for all and once for OU/BL only. Both results (though the OU and BL were higher numbers) gave me that type of spread except for the average of all speed. I'm not one to break tradition, so I say we keep this pattern.
Total number of Pokes with Primary Fire or Grass: 36 (16 F, 20 G)
Total number of Pokes with Secondary Fire or Grass: 7 (1 F, 6 G)
Total OU/BL: 20
Averages 77 89 80 90 81 68 = 485
Av OU/BL 91 108 92 112 91 93 = 587

Feel free to check my math at all expenses, but it is at most 1 point off. Those are very awkward numbers, and they are rounded off by the decimal, so they are not exact either, so in no way is this a Base Spread, but I would vote for something near this spread if one arises.

 

[JimBob]

I've said a few things in this thread and from the community response, I can conclude that I'm on everyone's ignore list :)

But the heated debates are slowing down a bit so I'll think through them and come up with my vote

Offensive Physical
Defensive Special
Speed Fast

 

[bluedolphin359]

Offensive: Special
Defensive: Special
Speed: Medium

 

[Meta_ridley]

OFFENSE: Special (Preferably reeeaaally special; you'll see why)
DEFENSE: Mixed
SPEED: Medium (85 would rock, look down)

This would be the most ironic thing ever:

Kingdra used Rain Dance!
It started raining!
[pokemon] used Sunny Day!
The sun intensified! (kinda forgot the exact wording)
----------------
[pokemon] used SolarBeam!
A critical hit!
Kingdra took 102% damage.
Kingdra fainted!

Ironic. Yes, I did just pull the 102% out of thin air.

 

[DougJustDoug]

Please open the art submission thread. According to the calendar, I think it should already be open.

 

[Pombo]

OFFENSE: SPECIAL
DEFENSE:SPECIAL
SPEED:FAST