CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 5 (Build)

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Type: [COLOR=Red]Fire[/COLOR]/[COLOR=YellowGreen]Grass[/COLOR]
New Species or Evolution: New
Style: Balanced
Well it looks like Balanced has once again triumphed over the other two selections and with that I bring you the Build poll. In this poll we will discuss the specifics of this monster’s offensive and defensive stats which are what Build means in reference to a Pokémon. As well as discussion about it's Build, well will discussion about it's speed placement since I felt it needed to be decided upon soon.

The following poll is a bold one but with a little twist added to it. The twist is that you’re casting three votes, one for its offensive stats, one for its defensive stats, and one for how fast and/or slow this thing will become. Now the way it suppose to look is like this:

Voter said:
Offensive: [insert your vote/choice]
Defensive: [insert your vote/choice]
Speed: [insert your vote/choice]
Offensive&Defensive have three choices to choose from: Physical, Special, and Mixed. Speed has about four choices to choose from: Slow, Medium, Fast, and Very Fast*. All of them in bold though I don't need to remind everyone this, now do I? Now if you still don't understand here's a example, If I vote for:

Offensive: Special
Defensive: Physical
Speed: Fast

Then that means that it's strongest offensive stat is special attack, while being geared towards taking physical attacks better. It would also mean that it would have a speed of around 90-110 when overall stats come around.

Important things:
----------------------
Speed Tier(lol)
Slow: 60 and below
Medium: 60-85
Fast: 90-110
Very Fast: 115 and up

Build: Refers to the specialization of the main stats. Can be physical, special, or mixed.

Balanced
- Physical: A pokémon is considered physical if its special stats are lower than the physical stats by 30%.
- Special: A pokémon is considered special if its physical stats are lower than the special stats by 30%.
- Mixed: If the stats don't fulfill the requisites for being physical or special, they are considered mixed.
* Originally was going to be called "OMFG, It's the Flash D:" but felt it was stupid.

Major Edit:Poll is Closed. Final Score here: Is it that hard to do some resource and view the second before last page? =/
 

KoA

Sorry, I thought anteaters were real
is an Artist
Wouldn't this be casting 3 votes, not 2? ;p

Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast
 
Offensive: Special
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Medium


Hmm, speed I'm torn on. I like fast, but that means it would likely take a hit somewhere else. Going with medium, misread first time. I want between 60 and 70.
 
Offensive: Mixed
Defensive: Mixed
Speed: Fast

I really want to see what Sunny Day can do to this guy. Here's my vote.
 

tennisace

not quite too old for this, apparently
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Offense: Special
Defense: Mixed
Speed: Fast

Hmmm... a physical fire type would be nice but theres too many special moves to pass up.
 
Offensive: Physical
Defensive: Special
Speed: Medium


I really think it should only be fast under sun. Medium would allow that while forcing non-sun sets to use a different strategy.
 
Offensive: Mixed
Defensive: Special
Speed: Medium


Really does not need to be fast unless we go for a really high BST its gonna take too much of a hit in the other stats. I agree with chrono it should be slow and defensive but also be able to hit hard, and then turn into a fast sweeper once sun is up.
 
For some reason, I can't delete threads made by me in the case I need to redo a thread title.

I really think it should only be fast under sun. Medium would allow that while forcing non-sun sets to use a different strategy.
This somewhat make me think I should have asked about speed after the ability(ies) were chosen, but on the other half, speed would also determine if it gets Chlorophyll or not.
 
Well, considering that Heatran focuses completely on Special attack, and Infernape is a mixed attacker typically. However, that doesn't change the fact that both Fire and Grass have much, much better special move pools than physical ones. Therefore, I'd like Offense: Special.

Defense: Mixed. If we're focusing on a Sub-Seeder who can get beaten up easily on either side, that's just not going to work. Also, I'd just like mixed defenses more than focusing on one side. It always seems better. Plus, it allows for more options, depending on natures and EVs.

Speed is the hardest one to pick. Is there anywhere I can find the list of "speed tiers" so that I know what tiers would make this faster or slower than certain Pokemon? I really don't want it to be slower than a lot of grass types, but I'm not quite sure where that is.

Edit: Changing my opinion. Speed: Medium fits what I'm looking for.
 
Speed is the hardest one to pick. Is there anywhere I can find the list of "speed tiers" so that I know what tiers would make this faster or slower than certain pokemon? I really don't want it to be slower than a lot of grass types, but I'm not quite sure where that is.
Not that I know of, but marriland has a tool that lets you search for all Pokemon between, less than, or greater than a certain speed. That's always useful.
 
I know this isn't the ability poll yet, but this poll is too directly related.

If we make this pokemon fast, we absolutely can not give it chlorophyll. It would get up to 180 Spd (i.e. Deoxys-S, 10 base faster than Swift Swim Kingdra) in the Sun at least. We might not want to give it Chlorophyll, but we essentially are making that decision now.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
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Remember guys, we are trying to emphasize (EMPHASIZE) creativity, which directly implies originality.

I'll make my votes at the end of this, but I'll break down each specific stat for the Fire type.

format is HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe

Charizard: 78 / 84 / 78 / 109 / 85 / 100
Ninetales: 73 / 76 / 75 / 81 / 100 / 100
Arcanine: 90 / 110 / 80 / 100 / 80 / 95
Rapidash: 65 / 100 / 70 / 80 / 80 / 105
Flareon: 65 / 130 / 60 / 95 / 110 / 65
Moltres: 90 / 110 / 90 / 125 / 85 / 90
Typhlosion: 78 / 84 / 78 / 109 / 85 / 100
Magcargo: 50 / 50 / 120 / 80 / 80 / 30
Houndoom: 70 / 90 / 50 / 110 / 80 / 95
Entei: 115 / 115 / 85 / 90 / 75 / 100
Blaziken: 80 / 120 / 70 / 110 / 70 / 80
Camerupt: 70 / 100 / 70 / 105 / 75 / 40
Torkoal: 70 / 85 / 140 / 85 / 70 / 20
Infernape: 76 / 104 / 71 / 104 / 71 / 108
Magmortar: 75 / 95 / 67 / 125 / 95 / 83
Heatran: 91 / 90 / 106 / 130 / 106 / 77

HP: 77.25 average. Note that only one fire has HP above 100, and that one (Entei) isn't even OU viable.

Atk: 96.4375 average. Note that while there is a relative balance between high attack and low attack Pokemon, the only Pokemon that take advantage of Atk in OU are Charizard, Arcanine, Blaziken and Infernape, three of which are BL and one that is OU yet has its special attack emphasized more often.

Def: 81.875 average. Note only three Pokemon have Defense higher than 100, and only one of which is viable for OU.

SpA: 102.375 average. The best and most commonly high stat for Fires. At least 9 Pokemon can use this stat effectively in OU, though within those 9, only Heatran and Infernape are OU. Still, this doesn't mean anything...because only Heatran and Infernape are OU among the Fires anyway, lol.

SpD: 84.1875 average. Again, only 3 Pokemon have this stat at 100 or higher, and only one is OU viable. Still, the Pokemon you might more commonly see in OU, such as Heatran (restalk set is special defense), Infernape (I believe most Apes carry Hasty, though I might be mistaken), Ninetales, Arcanine (even), Typhlosion, Houndoom, Blaziken (even), and Magmortar, all have higher Special Defense than Defense, with some cases being even. The only three Pokemon that consistently have higher Defense are Moltres, Torkoal and Magcargo, only one of which is really viable in OU.

Spe: 80.5 average. All over the place here. Nothing especially noteworthy.


The important factors to consider, at least when viewing from the creativity perspective, are that HP is rarely high for Fires, Special Attack trumps Attack for Fires in the standard metagame, Special Defense trumps Defense for Fires in the standard metagame, Offense generally trumps Defense, and Speed is all over the place.

That's why I am SERIOUSLY recommended our Pokemon have high HP, with the Defensive stats being higher than the Offensive stats, the Attack stat higher than the Special Attack stat, and the Defense stat higher than the Special Defense stat.

4 factors to emphasize creativity, in order of absolute importance to creativity:

1.) High HP (most important)
2.) Defense > Offense, generally speaking.
3.) This is a physically offensive Pokemon
4.) This is a mixed defensive Pokemon, though emphasizing physical over special.

Here is my vote:

Offensive: Physical
Defense: Mixed
(High HP, High Defense, Medium Special Defense)
Speed: Medium
(It doesn't matter any which way, I would prefer to have lower Speed however so that we can emphasize the other stats.)


To recap: Creativity should be the most significant factor when determining our Pokemon! Don't let your personal bias affect what you "think" a Fire / Grass should be! Look at the standard metagame, and look at the common trends for Fires, and then make your judgments!

Also, for the people claiming that special has a more diverse movepool than physical....while this may be true, there is nothing saying that we cannot make moves (as hesitant as we are to do this), and it isn't by too much.

Special Fire moves viable in OU: Overheat, Fire Blast, Flamethrower, Lava Plume, Heat Wave.

Physical Fire moves viable in OU: Flare Blitz, Blaze Kick, Fire Punch, Fire Fang.

Special Grass moves viable in OU: Solarbeam, Grass Knot, Energy Ball, Leaf Storm, Giga Drain, Magical Leaf, Seed Flare.

Physical Grass moves viable in OU: Power Whip, Leaf Blade. Seed Bomb, Wood Hammer, Razor Leaf.

That's basically 12 special attacking moves (11 most likely since we will not be giving this thing Shaymin's signature move), and 9 physical attacking moves. The gap isn't as large as some people are claiming.
 
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