CAP 10 CAP 10 - Concept Assessment

[Akusu]

And in that you would be mistaken. The idea is not coverage, as a matter of fact if you read the concept it's the exact opposite. It doesn't need coverage, it needs very specific moves to counter specific threats as needed by the user. Tinted Lens lets its STAB options, whatever they might be, become superior to all other options - even when resisted. This makes it too powerful against too broad a spectrum of Pokemon, which is what we must be careful to not let it become.

Bibarel has already been converted into Arghonaut effectively, and Arghonaut already has Taunt to boot.

I still think that Tinted Lens translates to high attack power, impossible to resist and would lead to sweeping with it because in order to be powerful enough to be a counter it would be relying on STAB instead of SE.

Arghonaut is missing Super Fang which is just as important to that strategy and why I used Bibarel as an example. Don't be distracted by the fact that they borrowed his ability, they're still very different mons. The only defensive pokemon that strategy would not work against is ghosts, because even if it could hit them Pain Split would make that difficult. I'm not worried about using Unaware, and I don't want to make another Arghonaut.

I'm not sure but I haven't seen any comments from anyone referring directly to experience using Arceus on their team. I'd like to see someone weigh in on the advantages/disadvantages of multitype that way. I know I've seen at least one way you can use him as a tank, by giving him something else and dealing with him as a normal pokemon.

Also, if we use Multitype, we end up with a counter to trick mons, since it prevents the item from getting taken.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I still think that Tinted Lens translates to high attack power, impossible to resist and would lead to sweeping with it because in order to be powerful enough to be a counter it would be relying on STAB instead of SE.

I agree. That's basically what I said in fewer words. :p

Arghonaut is missing Super Fang which is just as important to that strategy and why I used Bibarel as an example. Don't be distracted by the fact that they borrowed his ability, they're still very different mons. The only defensive pokemon that strategy would not work against is ghosts, because even if it could hit them Pain Split would make that difficult. I'm not worried about using Unaware, and I don't want to make another Arghonaut.

Super Fang is irrelevant here, though, since it is too broad and lets CAP10 handle more than just specific threats. (bar ghosts) Furthermore, the idea is to switch-in and immediately threaten the enemy out, and against threats like Gyarados or Lucario you're better off just using a super effective attack to OHKO them as opposed to chipping off a predictable 50% of their current HP.

If it could learn Ice beam and Earth power etc, 1 is to conter dragons and the other is to conter Heatran etc. What stops you from running both and counter both Heatran and Dragons?

Nothing, but you're taking the concept too literally now. It's okay to counter a few Pokemon, but they are specific Pokemon. You run Ice Beam and EQ specifically to beat the threats those beat. You make his attack stat mediocre enough so that anything not 4x weak to those moves don't get OHKO'd and immediately threaten CAP10 back. Furthermore, as intended, by choosing Ice Beam and EQ, you run the risk of not beating LO Starmie, Scizor, etc. Finally, because Ice Beam is special and EQ is physical, you lack actual specific coverage in that you'll have to split EVs and worry about defensive-reducing natures to not neuter your own attacks.

I though, "What if CAP10's main attack would be a super effective Hidden Power?" It could have a good Sp.Atk but a very limited Special Movepool. This should prevent it from any atempts of sweeping. Good defensive stats are still very usefull so it can take atleast 2 hits and survive from what itäs suposed to counter.

This is interesting, actually. I think we would do well to discuss this a bit more. Hidden Power as the primary special option backed by great SpA could work rather well. (Limited type-coverage, but you pick a move that beats a specific threat)

I still think Trace is an amazing ability for it.
*Trace Scizors Technician and respond with a 60 base power HP fire.
*Trace Salamence Intimidate to nullify the effect of dragon dance on the switch, or to be able to take a hit from EQ after switching in on a Draco meteor and respond with HP Ice. Same works with Gyra but HP electric.
* Trace Heatrans Flash fire to take away its STAB and possibly absorb a hit on the switch and HP ground.

Trace lets it counter too many threats dynamically as the game progresses. It could switch into Vaporeon or Mence or Gyarados or Heatran and threaten them all with their own abilities. This makes it too broad of a counter, and not really a specific counter. I don't think Trace will work. (By the way, tracing Scizor's Technician and specifically using a weaker Hidden Power for that case is a terrible idea)

 

[Gir!]

Another good way to keep the idea at its purest form would be a really well thought out Egg move selection, in a way that to defeat a threat, it loses the moves to deal with another, it would be a bit tough for the Movepool builders though

 

[Str0ngbad]

I like the egg move idea the best but it does seem a little too complicated. Not as bad as making different forms but in that same direction.

 

[Mattman324]

:O I missed the Concept threads! I had a good idea to... a well, there's always CAP11.

To what extent should this Pokemon be addressing threats? Should it be able to wall everything they use, or should it just be able to take hits well enough to be able to force them out with an attack or status?

It should be able to counter specific sets, but not a pokemon as a whole. Many people have elaborated, so I don't need to.

• 
  

Should this Pokemon be addressing threats offensively or defensively? Could this also be customized per threat by the user?

Defensively + hitting super effectively is the best way to counter in the Fourth gen. Resisting common attacking types helps, if Porygon2 did it would probubly be OU. Yeah, this thing should be like Porygon2. It's similar in value in the metagame.

What kind of stats will facilitate a Pokemon that can be tailored to counter any threat? Should it be a primarily defensive Pokemon, offensive or balanced between the two?

Defensive with a large movepool. As I said earlier, defensive + hitting super effectively is what I believe this should be.

Just how limited should the Pokemon be in regard to dealing with threats that it isn’t specifically designed to counter? If the opponent doesn’t carry the threat that a particular CAP10 was customized to counter, will it become dead weight during that battle.

This is one of the main issues that keeps Porygon2 out of OU. I think that, with a decent supporting movepool (Maybe Spikes, Baton Pass and Howl or such stuffs), it will be able to help out anyway. Also, it's stats should be good enough to handle such things as DD Sala OR DD Gyara OR DD Tar with one set (Aura Sphere + Thunderbolt + Ice Beam + Recover I think would do that), and that makes it more likely to help out.

Will it still be less useful if your opponent doesn't carry any of those? Yeah, but if those are your teams main problem, then you shouldn't care, you should be sweeping.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Another good way to keep the idea at its purest form would be a really well thought out Egg move selection, in a way that to defeat a threat, it loses the moves to deal with another, it would be a bit tough for the Movepool builders though

I am sure that this will indeed play a significant role in the move pool of CAP10. Recall, though, that a Pokemon can only be a member of 2 egg groups, so the movepool won't be only determined by those.

 

[Gir!]

I know so, but what I meant is (and this is a random example, considering I absolutely SUCK at egg moves) make it so that if he wants Ice Shard as an egg move to counter Salamence, he loses say, Seed Bomb to counter Swampert, stuff like that, that would give it versatility but would force you to choose the actual threats to counter

 

[Akusu]

I am sure that this will indeed play a significant role in the move pool of CAP10. Recall, though, that a Pokemon can only be a member of 2 egg groups, so the movepool won't be only determined by those.

>_< I can't believe I didn't think of that. This is something that someone should definitely work on, because if we have a clear idea of what kind of moves we can split that way, it would help alot when we're deciding other factors.

 

[Seizen]

There's still the problem of making it so it won't counter multiple things at once.

There is a simple solution to this: provided we do not make a sweeper or a tank, it will be impossible to counter multiple Pkmn of varying types at once. If it does not have the EVs to use EQ and I.Beam on the same moveset, no-one will run it. That's why the stats should be balanced and not be on legendary levels - after all, what would be the point in recreating a legendary?

This is one of the main issues that keeps Porygon2 out of OU. I think that, with a decent supporting movepool (Maybe Spikes, Baton Pass and Howl or such stuffs), it will be able to help out anyway. Also, it's stats should be good enough to handle such things as DD Sala OR DD Gyara OR DD Tar with one set (Aura Sphere + Thunderbolt + Ice Beam + Recover I think would do that), and that makes it more likely to help out.

Will it still be less useful if your opponent doesn't carry any of those? Yeah, but if those are your teams main problem, then you shouldn't care, you should be sweeping.

But you see, if it needs to do ALL those things, then you ought to redesign your team a bit. It isn't going to take all the hits in the world, both Physical and Special, as well as eat up status effects. Nor should it have to. If you are weak to Dragon-Dancers in general, which is what you have suggested, then run Arghonaut.
CAP 10 is about countering the team's main problem, not sweeping it away. A status effect such as paralysis is much more dangerous to a DDancer than an attack, as it causes a guaranteed loss in speed and a potential free move every so often. A counter can also potentially sweep, but a sweeper cannot counter save on that rare occasion.

Now, about abilities: our main problem is that until Beej chooses the direction the project is going in, Utility Counter is just another phrase. Nonetheless, the general consensus appears to be balanced stats at mid-range, possibly leaning to defence, and a large movepool. That still leaves a lot to be worked out.

Oh, and on a final note, just because Bibarel has Unaware + Super Fang does not make him a useful Pokemon. He has a gimmick which makes him playable, and excellent for catching Pokemon in the games. Similarly, Pure Power is excellent, but it is an ability on a sub-par Pokemon.
An ability ought to compliment the Pokemon using it, not give it something to make up for it's general poor playability.
Therefore, on a Utility Counter, Intimidate is a good choice - it rewards the opponent with twice the normal PP-loss, and it means we need not worry about the ability affecting the Base Stats or visa versa.

 

[Zystral]

@ Hidden Power being the primary option; the only thing I fear with this is, without a reliable secondary attack it would be slightly easily walled itself, especially with the likes of HP Ground, Elec, Water and Fire.
The other thing would be the argument of using STAB over SE; if (and this is a big IF) CAP10 is given Multitype, that would turn the HP into STAB, potentially depending on if you treat countering (as switching in) or checking (as in forcing out or killing) as the higher priority.

In regards to Ability, I'd rather opt for two out of many immunity abilities (Levitate, Motor Drive, Flash Fire, Water Absorb, etc.). The whole point of this counter is that it must switch into the designated threat with little to no impunity. Doing this would primarily revolve around rendering the foe helpless against you - if they can't even touch you, how will they expect to kill you?
The typing would also likely center itself on things such as immunities and resistances.
Howeer, as discussed, giving it a set typing does hinder it immensely, as it wouldn't be able to counter another specific threat otherwise. As a result of this, I would think that Multitype seems to be the way forward in order for it to defeat what it has been customized to. And what's more customize-y than changing your typing completely?

The only roadblocks I can see with regards to Multitype would be the lack of leftovers recover, and the fact that Multitype overrides your typing completely, so if CAP10 were a dual-typed Pokémon by nature, then it would become mono-typed upon being given a plate. This is technically a double-edged sword, as you become weak to new things but resistant (and immune, in some cases) to others. That will be a discussion for another time.
However, with Multitype comes the sheer versatility CAP10 requires in order to counter 'virtually anything.' The Trick immunity is an added plus.

The talk of Porygon2-but-better is also a bit of an odd subject for me. I tend to agree with Rising_Dusk on the subject of Trace. Sure, switching into Heatran stops it, depending on your type. Switching into Salamence/Gyarados gives you a little security while it DD's or hits you softer to do...things. However, not everything is good with Trace either - Tyranitar, you're rendered useless against. Rotom - it doesn't care. Similarly with the likes of Latias. Blissey laughs at you. Skarmory moreso. Heracross doesn't pack status anyway. Infernape could probably kill you before your boost activates, and that's if you have a Fire-move at all. Lucario doesn't have flinching moves outside of Bite and Astonish so LOL.
Also I'd rather have Multitype or an Immunity-Ability over Trace any day.
Porygon2's movepool however, is a different story; it has just enough of what it needs to do what it needs. Discharge, Ice Beam, Toxic, Recover, etc.
It doesn't waste time with Taunt, Spikes, Rapid Spin, Roar or any of that rubbish. It comes in and makes your opponent think 'crap.' and that's a mission successful.

So in a similar vein, CAP10 doesn't need a movepool full of support. It just needs a reliable recovery, enough attacks to be able to hit back at whatever it is you're gearing it for.
However, I stand by my point that risking so much to counter a certain threat must have its repercussions if you don't have anything to counter. Okay, if not, you still have a reasonably bulky status-er, but that won't really achieve or help as much as it should, like if it were all-out shutting down one of your team's big threats.

With regards to stats; I'm no numbers whiz (well okay, yes I am) but something with average speed and obviously good bulk is necessary.
Deck has been talking about Base 90 Speed; which I'm agreeing with. +Ve nature and some speed allows it to deal with neutral Base 100's and the like.

Some people are losing sight of what CAP10 is supposed to do; be customized to 'soft counter' just about anything imaginable. The words 'customize' and 'counter' should really be defining how we go about this.

 

[Akusu]

One other thing that I just realized about the egg groups is the way that egg moves work. If we made it so that it could only learn 1 egg move at a time, that would further limit it so that it couldn't counter more than one thing at one (on a customization basis only).

As an example:

If it can only get Ice Shard from egg moves, and it can also only get Vacuum Wave from egg moves, and it can only choose one either because of an egg group split, no parent that has both, or an egg move limit of 1, then it can only counter dragons such as Salamence or Tyranitar, but not both.

It would take some analysis, but we could accomplish this if we tried.

 

[Chomper The Sharptooth]

I think one idea that has gone to the wayside (though has been mentioned) is a special bias and basing CAP10's typing off of its hidden power (like multitype but without the plates). It could even have good stats if its best attacking options are lower base power moves (especially those lower than hidden power). This would give CAP10 enough versatility to fill a certain hole but not be an overpowering force by himself. It could also explore some lesser used moves as a bonus, though that is just as likely irrelevant.

 

[Banryu]

...hmm... Well, I'm pretty new to the CAP project, so I dunno if I'm gonna be in over my head here if I try to discuss anything... But I am interested in this and would like to get involved, so I guess I'll throw my thoughts in. =0

I think that having multiple immunity abilities sounds like it would be the best way to go, and it feels like this thing should be able to fill a unique niche within the metagame... I feel inclined to suggest Motor Drive as one of the main abilities because of this, but then there's not really all that much stuff that consistently uses Electric moves anyway, outside of Magnezone, Electivire (not all that common nowadays anyway) and Zapdos, barring the occasional Vaporeon or other bulky Water packing HP 'Lectric. I never used Electivire myself, but the ability seems in and of itself just slightly too situational to be reliably effective.

I think Levitate is definitely a good option for the ability, but I worry that the thing'll become Steel-type and just become like Bronzong. =0 The only other defensive types that come to mind are Water, Poison, Ghost... hmm... Come to think of it, a Water-type with Levitate and Motor Drive might be interesting.

Also, I like the idea of it being like Porygon2 in that it can tank, attack, screw with status and heal itself-- not exactly 'Porygon2 but better', because as ZyrstaL discussed, Trace isn't really the ideal ability for a Pokemon like this, but I think the basic idea of what Porygon2 does fits the concept pretty well if done right with typing and ability and stuff.

...well, I hope that helps. Not really sure if I contributed anything useful. =0 I guess I'll stick around and continue to discuss it in here.

 

[Universal Berry]

I'm not really involved with CAP, I'm just getting started. Just posting ideas around.

I think Multitype would be a great ability to start from (although the art process will be long if we have to make various colors) because It could then counter various offensive threats without being able to counter them all. A small yet effective movepool or average offensive stats could balance the thing.

Trace is a good idea too, but Porygon2 is already there. Learning both Ice Beam and Thunder Bolt to counter various threats, I don't see how CAP 10 could be different.

 

[ShravanP]

To what extent should this Pokemon be addressing threats? Should it be able to wall everything they use, or should it just be able to take hits well enough to be able to force them out with an attack or status?

For this, I agree with what reachzero had originally posted. We should be able to custom-tailor CAP10 to "Soft Counter" any threat that we see to our team. One thing to keep in mind is that we won't be going around mindlessly countering things for the sake of it. The way I see this being used is as a final pokemon to plug any weaknesses you foresee in your team. It can indeed go beyond that (maybe used for mindgames if u wish), but its main purpose will be to address those specific threats to your specific teams. I think it is enough that this pokemon takes a hit well enough and forces its target out (sort of like how Swampert treats Jirachi).

Should this Pokemon be addressing threats offensively or defensively? Could this also be customized per threat by the user?

I think it should be able to accomplish both, but depending on the Pokemon. I can see it working out both ways here. Let's take the example of Salamence. CAP10 can switch into any of its moves with ease, take a hit (and still have enough to survive more), and threaten it immediately with an OHKO. But it can also work out that it switches in, takes a hit, and threatens to completely cripple it. It should have the option to do both, up to the choice of the user. Obviously it won't be able to accomplish this for every threat, but I don't see the option as being overpowering.

What kind of stats will facilitate a Pokemon that can be tailored to counter any threat? Should it be a primarily defensive Pokemon, offensive or balanced between the two?

I like the previously mentioned idea that we could just take one of the Fairies and tweak them. I envision this as being primarily defensive with passable attacking stats. CAP10 should have a fair amount of bulk, or it simply cannot switch in otherwise. For offense (stats+movepool together), it should have just enough to seriously threaten its target. I'm sort of undecided on whether to give it sub-par attacking stats and a decent movepool or give it high attacking stats with a shitty movepool. I'm slightly leaning towards the former, however.

Just how limited should the Pokemon be in regard to dealing with threats that it isn’t specifically designed to counter? If the opponent doesn’t carry the threat that a particular CAP10 was customized to counter, will it become dead weight during that battle?

It shouldn't become so specialized that it's absolutely useless if your opponent doesn't carry its target. It should be able to at least stand up to a few things (maybe not threaten them). In fact, if you can switch it into something else first and act as if it's a counter, you could end up surprising your opponent when the real target comes into play. If it's totally useless against everything that it's not meant to handle, then CAP 10 is really not worth making IMO. I also feel that it's good enough that, EVEN IF CAP10 can handle more than one threat effectively, tailoring it to one thing will open out some glaring weaknesses that other pokemon can exploit. That is, we don't have to be too Draconian regarding how little it should cover.

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There are certainly a few things in regards to ability and movepool that work here. One set of moves that holds a lot of merit is the bunch of priority moves. Ice shard, bullet punch, and mach punch all deal with some of the premier threats beautifully. They achieve exactly what we want: force the opponent to switch in fear of death. Of course, we do need to prevent it from running multiples of these at once, but it's still a possibility.

For ability, I really like both schools of thought: Multitype AND immunity-based. The main argument against Multitype (strangely enough) is that people seem to find it too weak. Granted, against Salamence specifically, it will not offer you much, and the loss of item usage and ability is a bummer. But it still offers a lot of advantage against some of the other big threats out there. Mono-ghost shuts down most of Lucario's arsenal (barring crunch), Mono-fighting takes out both of Ttar's STAB's, and Specially defensive Mono-steel will comprehensively shut down every variant of Latias (including trick!). There are many, many such options open. And Multitype has enough limitations that it leaves CAP10 with a bunch of glaring weakness to exploit.

That's not to say that good type combo + immunity ability is not an equally viable route. It trades away a degree of unpredictability for item versatility and better staying power. Coverage can be left up to the movepool, and it also opens up the option to use type-resisting berries and other handy items.

 

[Oddish On Fire]

DK stated my opinion on Multitype perfectly. If we give it multitype, it will not be able to counter Pokemon like Salamence in the slightest, considering that EQ, Fire Blast, and Outrage are near impossible to wall without two different typings. The current coverage by the OU sweepers is to vast to wall without two typings. We could hypothetically give it one main typing and then give it a secondary type ability, where you can choose a plate to change its second type. Then, we can also give it offensive capabilities by simply choosing to not utilize its ability, and instead opting to give it an item like Choice Scarf, Leftovers, or Life Orb.

 

[ShravanP]

DK stated my opinion on Multitype perfectly. If we give it multitype, it will not be able to counter Pokemon like Salamence in the slightest, considering that EQ, Fire Blast, and Outrage are near impossible to wall without two different typings. The current coverage by the OU sweepers is to vast to wall without two typings. We could hypothetically give it one main typing and then give it a secondary type ability, where you can choose a plate to change its second type. Then, we can also give it offensive capabilities by simply choosing to not utilize its ability, and instead opting to give it an item like Choice Scarf, Leftovers, or Life Orb.

This is a cool idea, but I would like to avoid the use of custom abilities to the best that we can. If we find that we simply cannot accomplish what the concept set out to do without a custom one, then we can consider it. I think this pokemon can be done quite elegantly with what we already have. It's part of the challenge. :)

 

[ZagZag]

• To what extent should this Pokemon be addressing threats?

It should be able to switch in to the target and then cripple it with status or SE moves. It should not be able to wall anything that comes in or it is not living up to the original concept

• Should this Pokemon be addressing threats offensively or defensively?

I would say that a "counter" can cripple the target in many ways, especially with status moves. This would be facilitated by being defensive.

• What kind of stats will facilitate a Pokemon that can be tailored to counter any threat?

Cap10 needs enough defence to allow it to switch in, however it's attacking stats need not be that high if it is to counter the threat through status. It could have a wide movepool for many SE hits but have poor offensive stats. If it wer given an ability like multitype then with only a single type it could come in on a predicted resisted move then have very high speed, to outrunn and status the target before they can touch it in return. This would get around the problems of only having a single type.

• Just how limited should the Pokemon be in regard to dealing with threats that it isn’t specifically designed to counter?

It should be able to survive a switch in against a powerful opponent and cripple them, but not do too much more. This should prevent it from surviving too long against anything it is not designed to counter.

 

[Zcythe]

Just going to throw an idea up in the wind here, a possiblilty that would allow it to counter almost every single pokemon yet only a select few at a time would be an increadibly fast pokemon with Wonder Guard and a series of moves that would allow it to change it's current type.

For example, lets say your opponent send out a DD salamance and gets a DD set up. He uses a move that hopefuly CAP10 is not weak to and you switch into CAP10 unharmed. Next turn you use your type changing move to switch into a type that DD salamance has no super effective move's against and procede from their to eliminate him.

The problem with this is that using two/three type changing moves that cover each others weakness's would be broken.

To solve this you could either make it so that you can only have one type changing move (I don't know how you would do that) or have it so every time you use a type changing move you face a penalty, such as Paralyasis or harshly lowering his speed.

To another note, this pokemon would have to have around 17 to allow it to effectivly counter T-tar and Abomasnow, and still alow it to switch in on entry hazards.

 

[Seizen]

Just going to throw an idea up in the wind here, a possiblilty that would allow it to counter almost every single pokemon yet only a select few at a time would be an increadibly fast pokemon with Wonder Guard and a series of moves that would allow it to change it's current type.

For example, lets say your opponent send out a DD salamance and gets a DD set up. He uses a move that hopefuly CAP10 is not weak to and you switch into CAP10 unharmed. Next turn you use your type changing move to switch into a type that DD salamance has no super effective move's against and procede from their to eliminate him.

The problem with this is that using two/three type changing moves that cover each others weakness's would be broken.

To solve this you could either make it so that you can only have one type changing move (I don't know how you would do that) or have it so every time you use a type changing move you face a penalty, such as Paralyasis or harshly lowering his speed.

To another note, this pokemon would have to have around 17 to allow it to effectivly counter T-tar and Abomasnow, and still alow it to switch in on entry hazards.

It's a good idea in and of itself, but the fact of the matter is that the core of subject was supposed to be "soft counter", generally meaning status/ resisting all moves with the potential with the perfect match-up of getting that illusive OHKO.

Hopefully, Beej will wrap this up soon, as we've covered pretty much everything we believe a counter can do. Then we can actually look into some of our more suggestions in more depth.

 

[hydrolphin]

I think one idea that has gone to the wayside (though has been mentioned) is a special bias and basing CAP10's typing off of its hidden power (like multitype but without the plates). It could even have good stats if its best attacking options are lower base power moves (especially those lower than hidden power). This would give CAP10 enough versatility to fill a certain hole but not be an overpowering force by himself. It could also explore some lesser used moves as a bonus, though that is just as likely irrelevant.

This gave me an intresting idea... what about Technitian+Hidden Power? It would give CAP10 access to a BP 90 move of any type, but it only gets one. Now it could still recieve stuff like Ice Beam and T-bolt to make sure it can fill its movepool well, and also give it options incase you want to use a secondary ability, like Trace or Water Absorb or whatever. And don't say that Stratagem already can do the special Technitian thing-can it switch in on Salamence, T-Tar, or even Heatran consistantly?

It would still keep the customability of a Multitype pokemon, where it could be specified to beat certain pokemon, but it doesn't lock it into a single typing like Steel or Water. It also prevents the "counter everyting with one set" mentality if we give it every single possible 90 BP coverage move. It gets one good powered move of ANY type, plus what ever else we decide to give it. CAP10 could also use things like Icy Wind, which the speed drop from could shut down stuff like Latias.

 

[SJCrew]

This gave me an intresting idea... what about Technitian+Hidden Power?

Hidden Power isn't 60 or below BP.

 

[viol and bass]

It is if you make it 60 or below.

Edit: Like this. http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/technician_hidden_powers

 

[Akusu]

Hidden Power isn't 60 or below BP.

Hidden power's power and type is based on the IVs used. You can manipulate IVs to end up with a 60 BP Hidden Power.

That being said. I hate Hidden Power with a passion. The fact that every pokemon suddenly has access to a special version of each type that they need to fill coverage holes makes alot of pokemon more viable, but it also pushes alot of them over the edge with answers to opposing pokemon that they just shouldn't have. It's frustrating.

Not to mention, it would greatly unsettle me to have a pokemon (even in a simulator!) that would only be viable by mass, chain breeding until you got the *perfect* hidden power type. Over and over again for each customization made to counter a specific pokemon. It's fairly unrealistic, and it warps Shoddy statistics and strategies to be able to count on it.

If we went this route.... yeah. No.

 

[Elegy]

This gave me an intresting idea... what about Technitian+Hidden Power? It would give CAP10 access to a BP 90 move of any type, but it only gets one. Now it could still recieve stuff like Ice Beam and T-bolt to make sure it can fill its movepool well, and also give it options incase you want to use a secondary ability, like Trace or Water Absorb or whatever. And don't say that Stratagem already can do the special Technitian thing-can it switch in on Salamence, T-Tar, or even Heatran consistantly?

Technician only boosts attacks of base power 60 or less, and the maximum Hidden Power can reach is 70. What this means is that our Pokemon would actually need to weaken itself to find appropriate Hidden Power Base Power. But in weakening itself, it can provide a truly stronger Hidden Power.

This sounds interesting, but I think it may get a bit risky. Considering our Pokemon itself needs to switch in safely, we cannot (and as Reachzero had said) have an offensive ability such as technician ruining our opportunities. Also, I wouldn't use technician just for Hidden Power.

I propose something (and I apologize for this eyesore): an ability that changes the Pokemon's type based on its Hidden Power type. This would not only allow freedom of items (Good or Bad; i.e. Choice Band, Life Orb) but still create that presence of choice among the Pokemon. A mini-judgement if you will. The Pokemon may use its constant STAB Hidden Power to it's advantage. But I disgress to the fact (Deck Knight's post, to be exact) that it wouldn't allow the ever important 4x resist.

Thoughts?

edit: and I see some of you have already posted yours...

edit2: Never mind, it's really a bad idea compared to the other possibilities; consider it merely a suggestion.