CAP 6 CAP 6 - Part 5 - Ability Discussion

[User 12783]

I am supporting Unaware and Pure Power.

Pure Power will give it some ability to actually damage the opponent as it is going to be defensive somewhat, or well I hope so it is now... Pure Power will allow it to be more of an attacker too, which is good if it gets some physical moves, such as Waterfall / Aqua Jet or Brick Break / Mach Punch. Unaware will allow it to actually defeat Revenankh which will be a pain in the ass if not, and it will also help defeat all the boosting sweepers such Stratagem, and others such as SDLuke, DDTar, and Scizor.

 

[Deck Knight]

Here's an original thought:

How about a new ability that gives an extra 20% damage on Super-Effective hits. Kind of like Expert Belt for an ability.

Tentative
Ability Name: Poseidon
Ability Effect: Increases damage 20% on Super-Effective hits.

The way I see it, it would help alleviate the stress on balancing offensive and defensive, and let you use more reliable attacks.

And it wouldn't boost moves categorically like Pure Power, only when you would hit SE. Would make using Aqua Jet, Mach Punch, and perhaps Ice Shard much easier without throwing Technician on another pokemon.

The funny thing is everyone thought Technician would see no use on Stratagem. LOL.

 

[diinbong]

As far as defensive abilities go, Rough Skin is a more interesting and lesser-used Intimdate. It would also open up some interesting design options.

 

[Gothic Togekiss]

re: No Guard guys wouldn't Compound Eyes do more or less the same without Deck's concerns and being a remake of Machamp.

Why being a remake of Machamp be a bigger problem than what Deck Knight explained? While the name "Compound Eyes" doesn't suit a Water/Fighting pokemon flavor wise, It's effect worth more than some flavor issue. Compound Eyes allows Cross Chop and Hydro Pump become 100% accurate moves while making Blizzard nearly as accurate.

BTW, If the name CompoundEyes bug you so damn much, you can always call it something like "Marksmen" or something.

Pure Power will give it some ability to actually damage the opponent as it is going to be defensive somewhat, or well I hope so it is now... Pure Power will allow it to be more of an attacker too, which is good if it gets some physical moves, such as Waterfall / Aqua Jet or Brick Break / Mach Punch.

Ironically enough, I had an idea about using Pure Power in a defensive matter. The idea was with Pure Power boosting your attack stat to respectable levels, one could focus more on your defensive stats. The problem came from the fact people would instinctively invest EVs onto attack despite not being part of the plan. This would lead to it having it's attack stat lowered to crazy levels in order to counterbalance it. They're many other things that cause problem towards that plan that I won't go into at the moment.

 

[sbc]

How can any of you justify Volt Absorb again? Just to check Zapdos? Sorry man but there are no Electrivires on the CAP Server, you're more likely to find a Rotom form or HP Electric (Bulky Water). It seems tacked on and arbitrary to me, not unlike Mountaineer on Syclant, which I am still vehemently against.

Again let's not aim to counter every pokemon particularly zapdos who will decrease in popularity if we check rev and scizor and we already have pyroak to beat it.

Why being a remake of Machamp be a bigger problem than what Deck Knight explained? While the name "Compound Eyes" doesn't suit a Water/Fighting pokemon flavor wise, It's effect worth more than some flavor issue. Compound Eyes allows Cross Chop and Hydro Pump become 100% accurate moves while making Blizzard nearly as accurate.

BTW, If the name CompoundEyes bug you so damn much, you can always call it something like "Marksmen" or something.

I never said nor implied that in my post. I never said anything about flavour either I just personally don't like CAP Pokemon to take the mantle of existing pokemon already - I can guarantee you that if that happened we'd end up with a Dynamic Punch abusing Pokemon which makes Machamp almost obsolete. That was probably my own quirk with Fidgit too about how it crapped over Nidoqueen completely with Toxic Spikes on it.

 

[dmlaw]

I would say that the big question as to how much use No Guard would be is what it would allow it to OHKO that it wouldn't otherwise. If a 100% accurate Hydro Pump could KO Tyranitar when nothing else could, then it would have some merits, albeit with the substantial downside that Deck Knight pointed out.

I would certainly support Unaware as an ability for the reasons already pointed out.

 

[tennisace]

Again let's not aim to counter every pokemon particularly zapdos who will decrease in popularity if we check rev and scizor and we already have pyroak to beat it.

Exactly my point: Zapdos is pretty much a lost cause with the typing.

 

[SgtWoodsy]

I heartily support Unaware / Demoralize.

 

[Buckles]

Fully supporting Unaware. If this is going to be defensive and still check Revenankh, it needs to get past those Bulk Ups. It's not getting STAB Psychic or Shadow Ball, and it seems to be leaning towards a physical bias, so Unaware is this thing's only hope.

 

[Nasty Pass]

I believe giving this guy Pure Power would be overdoing it. Yes, Slightly Defensive is currently winning the ODB Poll. No, CAP 6 will not be doing nothing offensively. The majority of the attack stats being tossed around in the submission thread are in the 90s and 100s!

I myself am tossing out my support for Unaware and Trace. Unaware lets this guy laugh at Rev's Bulk Ups, Strata's Calm Minds, and Syclant's Tail glows. Trace lols at Heatran's Fire Blasts, Blissey's status moves, and Gyara & Salamence (iff it's not a special variant, at least).

 

[Ellington]

Unaware sounds good with a name change.

 

[tennisace]

Unaware could just mean that it doesn't care about the stat-ups because it's so focused on fighting the enemy.

 

[Scoopapa]

I think Unaware is going to rape the metagame. A pokemon with good defenses and Unaware is going to counter a shit ton of stat uppers, not just the ones we are trying to counter. Nerfing so many stat uppers would completely change the metagame. Also, Close Combat/Superpower and Unaware together have potential to be broken also. If we choose unaware, maybe we should give it an unbalanced Def/SpD spread to make sure it doesn't get too OP.

 

[Scoopapa]

Marvel Scale seems like a cool idea. With the likely EV spread being somewhat defensive, this could be what Milotic was in ADV.

 

[tennisace]

Also, Close Combat/Superpower and Unaware together have potential to be broken also. If we choose unaware, maybe we should give it an unbalanced Def/SpD spread to make sure it doesn't get too OP.

Unaware Ignores stat boosts on other Pokémon.

From the Smogon Pokedex.

 

[dmlaw]

I think Unaware is going to rape the metagame. A pokemon with good defenses and Unaware is going to counter a shit ton of stat uppers, not just the ones we are trying to counter. Nerfing so many stat uppers would completely change the metagame. Also, Close Combat/Superpower and Unaware together have potential to be broken also. If we choose unaware, maybe we should give it an unbalanced Def/SpD spread to make sure it doesn't get too OP.

As was mentioned earlier, Unaware only affects the opponents stat changes, so Close Combat and Superpower should still have their negative effects on CAP6.

 

[Scoopapa]

And one final thought, using a decent stat total in a defensive spread along with the ability pure power = using a huge/uber/broken stat total in a well rounded, kicks everything's ass kinda way.

As was mentioned earlier, Unaware only affects the opponents stat changes, so Close Combat and Superpower should still have their negative effects on CAP6.

Oh, my B. That is kind of an afterthought compared to my other statements though, which are still very valid.

 

[Naxte]

I think Unaware is going to rape the metagame. A pokemon with good defenses and Unaware is going to counter a shit ton of stat uppers, not just the ones we are trying to counter. Nerfing so many stat uppers would completely change the metagame. Also, Close Combat/Superpower and Unaware together have potential to be broken also. If we choose unaware, maybe we should give it an unbalanced Def/SpD spread to make sure it doesn't get too OP.

Hardly. All it means is that Pokemon like Revy won't be able to KO it simply by stat-upping; Pokemon like Togekiss and especially Zapdos will still handle it. Stat-upping helps them beat it of course, but it isn't needed. Unaware is a very powerful ability, but it won't break CAP6.

As for Pure Power, if it's chosen, the stat spreads will end up being revised to give it a more Azumarill-level attack stat. While I don't particularly like the idea of Pure Power/Huge Power, that isn't really a reason to be against it.

 

[billymills]

Unaware is easily the best ability. Helping with stratagem, rev, t-tar, syclant, and pyroak.

Ideally, the second ability would give it immunity to a certain status. Likely either burn or paralysis, but sleep could also be an option. Even if Unaware is used, opponents would be careful in using status, giving CAP6 a pseudo-resist.

 

[tennisace]

Oh, my B. That is kind of an afterthought compared to my other statements though, which are still very valid.

Exactly which Stat-uppers are used in CAP frequently?

CM Stratagem
BU Revenankh
TG Syclant
DD Salamence
SD Scizor
DD Tyranitar (CB Tar is way more common)
SD Lucario

It's made to counter Scizor, but in the process takes down Lucario anyway. The only one it isn't "designed" to take down is Salamence, but it has intimidate and resists Fighting, but almost all water types get Ice attacks so it's a toss-up.

7 isn't a "shitload", considering there are only 2 that aren't in the top 10, and one is so much like another that they'll both be countered at the same time.

 

[Solstice]

Unaware is easily the best ability. Helping with stratagem, rev, t-tar, syclant, and pyroak.

Ideally, the second ability would give it immunity to a certain status. Likely either burn or paralysis, but sleep could also be an option. Even if Unaware is used, opponents would be careful in using status, giving CAP6 a pseudo-resist.

This is exactly why I support Marvel Scale as a secondary ability, or a special version of it. It helps with status, so the Pokemon could either be bulkier with status, or with Unaware, able to switch in easily on stat ups and be bulkier that way.

 

[tennisace]

This is exactly why I support Marvel Scale as a secondary ability, or a special version of it. It helps with status, so the Pokemon could either be bulkier with status, or with Unaware, able to switch in easily on stat ups and be bulkier that way.

I think one great ability is plenty, if we were to put another ability besides Unaware make it something retarded, like Illuminate or Keen Eye.

 

[Naxte]

Not really sure how great Marvel Scale is... With Burn or Poison, you're loosing 12% of your health each turn, so it kind of evens out, with Paralysis, you risk being unable to move, and with Freeze and Sleep (without Sleep Talk), you can't move. Marvel Scale might be useful on a RestTalk set, and maybe a bit with Toxic Orb if you're quickly going to switch it back out, but other than that, it's not really worth it.

If you're concerned with status, I'd much rather use something like Natural Cure, Limber, or Immunity as an ability. Guts is also a good option.

 

[Legacy Raider]

I think that Unaware is such a good ability that it is pointless to give it another. If it does end up getting another ability, then most likely it will never be chosen because of the overwhelming benefits that Unaware brings.

It will be like Magnet Pull / Sturdy Magnezone, Arena Trap / Sand Veil Dugtrio, Natural Cure / Illuminate Starmie, etc.

Just what I think.

LR.

 

[haterguy]

Please no Pure Power.
It means the base would be around like 60 atk, and waste ability to increase it's attack yet alone.

We need something to help it out like Unaware or Marvel Scale

Unaware makes the most sense. And Marvel Scale will boost its def and it will help it because fighting types are usually good on the sp def side, slapped in with water it is going to be real bulky on the sp def side.

Iron Fist is my idea, but I'd like to just throw it out there.