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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 3)
- Thread starter Sunday
- Start date
- Status
GROUND
I think Latinoheat and Aldaron have great points.
That is all.
I think Latinoheat and Aldaron have great points.
That is all.
Ground.
I'm really glad I wasn't around for the last poll; watching Electric fall down the tubes to Dragon would've been seriously depressing. I already had some pretty sweet concept art for Poison/Electric started.
The Stealth Rock resistance and Thunderwave/Sandstorm immunity is what sold me. Not to mention Dragon seems really fanboyish, and the flavor just doesn't work for me. Everything that comes to mind (Basilisk, etc.) just screams sweeper build.
I'm really glad I wasn't around for the last poll; watching Electric fall down the tubes to Dragon would've been seriously depressing. I already had some pretty sweet concept art for Poison/Electric started.
The Stealth Rock resistance and Thunderwave/Sandstorm immunity is what sold me. Not to mention Dragon seems really fanboyish, and the flavor just doesn't work for me. Everything that comes to mind (Basilisk, etc.) just screams sweeper build.
Dragon.
A Water weakness is going to hurt Ground because it's less common than a Dragon weakness. Not only that, but the value of Dragon's resistances is too great. Fire, Water, Electric, (not so much) Grass? Versus....Rock? An immunity to Electric (I like that actually...), doubling Poison? (oooooh!).
Dragon's usually have high stats, though I doubt that means anything considering we aren't bound to unwritten rules like that. I think a Dragon stab is more useful because most if not all Dragons can use Fire attacks, meaning only Heatran will be a problem in the offensive mindset. Plus, only STAB Dragon move will likely be used. And the majority of Pokemon we use is Water, so we'll see lot more STAB surfs and such.
A Water weakness is going to hurt Ground because it's less common than a Dragon weakness. Not only that, but the value of Dragon's resistances is too great. Fire, Water, Electric, (not so much) Grass? Versus....Rock? An immunity to Electric (I like that actually...), doubling Poison? (oooooh!).
Dragon's usually have high stats, though I doubt that means anything considering we aren't bound to unwritten rules like that. I think a Dragon stab is more useful because most if not all Dragons can use Fire attacks, meaning only Heatran will be a problem in the offensive mindset. Plus, only STAB Dragon move will likely be used. And the majority of Pokemon we use is Water, so we'll see lot more STAB surfs and such.
I really don't want to theorymon another pokemon into oblivion like Pyroak, so I'm really not sure what to vote. I'll just talk about what I feel sure of.
Art-concept-wise ground wins, just stop talking about it. You have so many other options PLUS you can make a dragon looking pokemon part ground. Game freak is more than happy to make dragon pokemon who aren't actually dragon types (Gyarados comes to mind). The reverse holds true too with altaria and kingdra though...
Type-wise, I'm not sure what weakness would actually hurt more. Pokemon who have dragon-type moves tend to be packing STAB and attack power to back it up, but water can show up on a greater variety of pokemon and still could hurt. Gyarados really doesn't matter unless he's the rare variety who doesn't pack earthquake. Garchomp... well... he'll hurt one way or the other.
Ground has a nice immunity, dragon has more resistances. Ground is immune to sandstorm, dragons have a lot of support moves. Ground resists SR. Ground seems like a better STAB so this guy isn't heatran bait (not that Heatran would shut down this guy's utility).
I'm just thinking out loud... Feel free to point out my logical flaws.
Art-concept-wise ground wins, just stop talking about it. You have so many other options PLUS you can make a dragon looking pokemon part ground. Game freak is more than happy to make dragon pokemon who aren't actually dragon types (Gyarados comes to mind). The reverse holds true too with altaria and kingdra though...
Type-wise, I'm not sure what weakness would actually hurt more. Pokemon who have dragon-type moves tend to be packing STAB and attack power to back it up, but water can show up on a greater variety of pokemon and still could hurt. Gyarados really doesn't matter unless he's the rare variety who doesn't pack earthquake. Garchomp... well... he'll hurt one way or the other.
Ground has a nice immunity, dragon has more resistances. Ground is immune to sandstorm, dragons have a lot of support moves. Ground resists SR. Ground seems like a better STAB so this guy isn't heatran bait (not that Heatran would shut down this guy's utility).
I'm just thinking out loud... Feel free to point out my logical flaws.
I guess changing my vote didn't do squat.
Oh well, back to Poison/Ground.
Already have all the reasons.
Mostly, Immunity to TOXIC and THUNDER WAVE, two incredibly common status moves. Also, Sandstorm and SR mean nothing to it. Important aspects of a pokemon who wants to get in easily.
Oh well, back to Poison/Ground.
Already have all the reasons.
Mostly, Immunity to TOXIC and THUNDER WAVE, two incredibly common status moves. Also, Sandstorm and SR mean nothing to it. Important aspects of a pokemon who wants to get in easily.
Not to nitpick, but Will-o-Wisp and Stun Spore say hi. <_<;
Anyway, Poison/Ground for me. Mostly because I see no real advantages gained by a Dragon typing. Sandstorm immunity and Stealth Rock resistance are both very nice. This thing will probably be switching in and out a lot, and being only vulnerable to one of the 3 varieties of Spikes and immune to the most common source of residual damage would be a major asset.
I'm so relieved this is between Ground and Dragon.
My personal preference has already been stated as being toward Dragon, but I wouldn't mind a Ground type either.
This is going to be a good Pokemon, of course.
My personal preference has already been stated as being toward Dragon, but I wouldn't mind a Ground type either.
This is going to be a good Pokemon, of course.
Ground. I've supported it since the first thread. (If only Electric, my other choice, had gotten through...
Dragon
poison/Dragon
I recognize that both these types would make a good Utility pokemon. In typing alone they are quite balanced. Dragon has more resists. Ground has some immunities. They have similar common weaknesses and are both justifiably ready to do support.
There is an advantage I see for Dragon however. It doesn't really effect the types performance but...
1) It seems that a dragon makes sense when giving this thing the right moves. The mystical quality that everyone has brought up works, and I just don't see ground getting these moves and it making sense.
2) Dragon combined with poison for Utility is a fresh combo and idea. A defensive Dragon makes sense (same with electric which is what I wanted). It has plenty of unique resists and deserves to exploit them instead of being a monstrous sweeper.
Poison/Ground however, has been done and I'd like to see a fresh perspective of the Dragon type
I recognize that both these types would make a good Utility pokemon. In typing alone they are quite balanced. Dragon has more resists. Ground has some immunities. They have similar common weaknesses and are both justifiably ready to do support.
There is an advantage I see for Dragon however. It doesn't really effect the types performance but...
1) It seems that a dragon makes sense when giving this thing the right moves. The mystical quality that everyone has brought up works, and I just don't see ground getting these moves and it making sense.
2) Dragon combined with poison for Utility is a fresh combo and idea. A defensive Dragon makes sense (same with electric which is what I wanted). It has plenty of unique resists and deserves to exploit them instead of being a monstrous sweeper.
Poison/Ground however, has been done and I'd like to see a fresh perspective of the Dragon type
Just like last poll, I'm conflicted. I've decided to run a comparison of the top 25 most-used pokemon, and see which type has the advantage against each one (just like last poll where I compared Electric and Dragon).
Here's the tally:
Dragon is preferable against 15 of 25
Ground is preferable against 7 of 25
3 of 25 are even
Based on that, I'll likely go with Dragon. But, I'm going to wait a bit and see if something convinces me otherwise.
Here's the breakdown, with a quick analysis of each:
--------------------------------------------------
1 Garchomp
Dragon hits Chomp SE, but gets hit SE in return. Since most Chomps are used in SS, Ground would be helpful.
Advantage: Even
2 Gengar
Gengar is immune to Ground, but Ground could come in damage-free on frequent Gengar Tbolts. Dragon resists Tbolt and is neutral offensively.
Advantage: Dragon
3 Blissey
No typing advantages on offense or defense. Ground is immune to frequent Twaves from the pink whore.
Advantage: Ground
4 Gyarados
Waterfall is Gyarados' move of choice, and hits Ground SE. Dragon resists Waterfall.
Advantage: Dragon
5 Tyranitar
Ground gets stab to prey on Tar's weakness. Ground is immune to Tar's everpresent Sandstream. Dragon brings nothing to the table here.
Advantage: Ground
6 Bronzong
All Zongs are Levitators and are immune to Ground. Zong resists Dragon. Defensively, both types are the same.
Advantage: Dragon
7 Lucario
Luke resists Dragon and is hit SE by Ground.
Advantage: Ground
8 Heatran
Dragon resists Heatran's fire stab, but Heatran's commonly carry Dragon Pulse. Heatran is 4x weak to Ground.
Advantage: Ground
9 Infernape
Dragon completely walls Infernape. Ground hits Infernape SE. Infernape is a hit-and-run artist, so the walling factor is more important.
Advantage: Dragon
10 Salamence
Dragon hits Mence SE, but is hit SE in return. Mence is immune to Ground.
Advantage: Dragon
11 Metagross
Ground hits Meta SE, and Dragon is resisted.
Advantage: Ground
12 Starmie
Most Stamie's carry Surf, which hits Ground SE and is resisted by Dragon.
Advantage: Dragon
13 Gliscor
Gliscor is immune to Ground. Dragon is neutral all around.
Advantage: Dragon
14 Celebi
Dragon resists Celebi Grass Knots, Poison/Ground is neutral. Celebi resists Ground.
Advantage: Dragon
15 Swampert
Dragon resists Swampert's Water STAB, and Ground is hit SE.
Advantage: Dragon
16 Weavile
Both types are the same versus Vile.
Advantage: Even
17 Skarmory
Skarmory resists Dragon and is immune to Ground. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
18 Forretress
Forry resists Dragon and is neutral to Ground. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Ground
19 Heracross
Hera resists Ground and is neutral to Dragon. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
20 Vaporeon
Vappy's STAB is resisted by Dragon and hits Ground SE.
Advantage: Dragon
21 Zapdos
Ground is immune to Zapdos' always-used Electric STAB, Dragon resists it. However, Zapdos is immune to Ground attacks and Dragon hits Zappy neutral.
Advantage: Even
22 Azelf
Azelf levitates and is immune to Ground. Dragon hits the pixie neutral. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
23 Togekiss
Togekiss is immune to Ground. Dragon hits it neutral. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
24 Cresselia
Cressy levitates and is immune to Ground. Dragon hits it neutral. Defensively, Ground is immune to frequent Cressy Charge Beams, Dragon resists it.
Advantage: Dragon
25 Magnezone
Magnezone resists Dragon, but has a massive 4x weakness to Ground. Ground is immune to Magnezone's primary STAB, Dragon resists.
Advantage: Ground
Here's the tally:
Dragon is preferable against 15 of 25
Ground is preferable against 7 of 25
3 of 25 are even
Based on that, I'll likely go with Dragon. But, I'm going to wait a bit and see if something convinces me otherwise.
Here's the breakdown, with a quick analysis of each:
--------------------------------------------------
1 Garchomp
Dragon hits Chomp SE, but gets hit SE in return. Since most Chomps are used in SS, Ground would be helpful.
Advantage: Even
2 Gengar
Gengar is immune to Ground, but Ground could come in damage-free on frequent Gengar Tbolts. Dragon resists Tbolt and is neutral offensively.
Advantage: Dragon
3 Blissey
No typing advantages on offense or defense. Ground is immune to frequent Twaves from the pink whore.
Advantage: Ground
4 Gyarados
Waterfall is Gyarados' move of choice, and hits Ground SE. Dragon resists Waterfall.
Advantage: Dragon
5 Tyranitar
Ground gets stab to prey on Tar's weakness. Ground is immune to Tar's everpresent Sandstream. Dragon brings nothing to the table here.
Advantage: Ground
6 Bronzong
All Zongs are Levitators and are immune to Ground. Zong resists Dragon. Defensively, both types are the same.
Advantage: Dragon
7 Lucario
Luke resists Dragon and is hit SE by Ground.
Advantage: Ground
8 Heatran
Dragon resists Heatran's fire stab, but Heatran's commonly carry Dragon Pulse. Heatran is 4x weak to Ground.
Advantage: Ground
9 Infernape
Dragon completely walls Infernape. Ground hits Infernape SE. Infernape is a hit-and-run artist, so the walling factor is more important.
Advantage: Dragon
10 Salamence
Dragon hits Mence SE, but is hit SE in return. Mence is immune to Ground.
Advantage: Dragon
11 Metagross
Ground hits Meta SE, and Dragon is resisted.
Advantage: Ground
12 Starmie
Most Stamie's carry Surf, which hits Ground SE and is resisted by Dragon.
Advantage: Dragon
13 Gliscor
Gliscor is immune to Ground. Dragon is neutral all around.
Advantage: Dragon
14 Celebi
Dragon resists Celebi Grass Knots, Poison/Ground is neutral. Celebi resists Ground.
Advantage: Dragon
15 Swampert
Dragon resists Swampert's Water STAB, and Ground is hit SE.
Advantage: Dragon
16 Weavile
Both types are the same versus Vile.
Advantage: Even
17 Skarmory
Skarmory resists Dragon and is immune to Ground. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
18 Forretress
Forry resists Dragon and is neutral to Ground. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Ground
19 Heracross
Hera resists Ground and is neutral to Dragon. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
20 Vaporeon
Vappy's STAB is resisted by Dragon and hits Ground SE.
Advantage: Dragon
21 Zapdos
Ground is immune to Zapdos' always-used Electric STAB, Dragon resists it. However, Zapdos is immune to Ground attacks and Dragon hits Zappy neutral.
Advantage: Even
22 Azelf
Azelf levitates and is immune to Ground. Dragon hits the pixie neutral. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
23 Togekiss
Togekiss is immune to Ground. Dragon hits it neutral. Defensively, both types are the same here.
Advantage: Dragon
24 Cresselia
Cressy levitates and is immune to Ground. Dragon hits it neutral. Defensively, Ground is immune to frequent Cressy Charge Beams, Dragon resists it.
Advantage: Dragon
25 Magnezone
Magnezone resists Dragon, but has a massive 4x weakness to Ground. Ground is immune to Magnezone's primary STAB, Dragon resists.
Advantage: Ground
Poison/Ground
Seriously, do we need another dragon in the meta-game??
Seriously, do we need another dragon in the meta-game??
Posion/Ground here
Ground: I've looked at possilbe egg moves for this Pokemon and found that if it is Bug (the trap door spider would obviously be in this egg group), then it can get more utilities then a Dragon/Monster (the most probable egg groups for a basilisk) would be able to. Plus this would easily be able to get Rapid Spin, Toxic Spikes, and Spikes all from Forretress. It can also get Baton Pass and Spider Web from Ariados. The only move Dragon won was Me First.
Neither of them would easily be able to get Gravity, Wish, Memento, Psycho Shift, Magic Coat, or Tailwind as egg moves.
Neither of them would easily be able to get Gravity, Wish, Memento, Psycho Shift, Magic Coat, or Tailwind as egg moves.
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