CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 3 (Secondary Typing Poll 3)

[Sunday]

Well, just like last time the typing poll comes right down to the wire. I'm wanting to avoid all the hubub we had least time with a clicky poll with complaints of people wanting to change their vote and that all the people with a postcount of zero were voting for the first option, so another bold poll will be used.


For your vote to count in this threat they must:
- Be bolded
- Be near the top of your post / not be buried in a wall of text.
- You have a single vote each. Use it wisely. Thread will close ~24 Hours from now. Type with the most votes wins, full stop.


Pure Utility Pokemon

Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.

Primary Typing: Poison

Options are:
Dragon
Ground

Example:

Poison / Ground
<reasoning>

Thanks GT

Poison/Ground
Neutral: Steel, Dark, Normal, Flying, Ghost, Fire, Grass, Dragon
Resistances: Fighting, Bug, Rock, Poison(4x)
Immunities: Electric
Weakness: Psychic, Ground, Ice, Water

Poison/Dragon
Neutral: Dark, Steel, Normal, Flying, Ghost,Rock
Resistances: Fighting, Bug, Water, Fire, Grass(4x), Electric, Poison
Weakness: Ice, Ground, Psychic, Dragon

Where both types have the same effectiveness they have been reduced in font. The more important differences have been bolded. Now vote wisely!

 

[X-Act]

I'll vote for Poison/Dragon.

Well, since it has come down to this, I simply chose the typing having more resistances. Dragon and Water moves are about equally common, although Dragon moves tend to be more powerful. I hope that having more resistances amply compensates for this.

 

[linton]

Poison/Ground
Chose this since it hits more types harder and Poison hurts the types that resist it. Both STABs (Dragon and Ground) with the combo with Poison can't hurt Skarm but with Gravity it can hit Bronzong and Skar super effective.

 

[Zonik]

Poison/Dragon

I agree with X-Act and I'm voting the type that has more resistances. In fact, I don't really like so much that the Pure Utility Pokémon is going to be weak to Ground and Ice... these are a very common moves and this will reduce too much the durability in the battle of the Pokémon, in my opinion. Anyway, in this point I have no other choice to vote Dragon or Ground sadly.

 

[X-Act]

Umm, this thing will not be hurting things much. It's a pure utility Pokemon...

 

[Aldaron]

Poison / Ground

I thought about it, and I figure it like this:

1.) Ground has the advantage over Dragon in that a Water weakness is less of an issue than a Dragon weakness.

2.) Dragon has more useful resistance with the Water, Fire and Grass as opposed to Ground's Rock, though Ground is immune to Electric and therefore Thunder Wave.

At this juncture, it was slight advantage Dragon, since the resistances advantage seemed to be more than the weaknesses disadvantage. Then I thought that, well, this thing is going to be switching in a lot...so...

3.) Ground's Stealth Rock resistance. Only a difference of 6.25% here, but coupled with the fact that it is immune to Sandstorm as well means that this thing can switch in more easily and also utilize Leftovers more efficiently than the Dragon version. This point is HUGE because it means it is much more efficient at switching in and being a utility type (ignoring resistances, obviously). I find taking minimum Stealth Rock damage and being able to use Leftovers as efficiently as possible two huge benefits for a utility Pokemon, and its ability to use Wish, Encore and Haze will be drastically improved.

At this point, Ground pulled up right next to Dragon, and I was unsure where to go.

4.) What did it for me is the fact that this gets STAB on arguably the most powerful move in the game while in Gravity...Earthquake. This may not seem huge, but humor me for a bit. A Gravity + Roar Pokemon can wreak havoc on the opponent, Toxic Spiking its Flyers / Levitators and hitting the Bronzong, Skarmory and Weezing all for SE damage with Earthquake.

It isn't a stretch at all to assume this will get Gravity, since Gravity was emphasized in the concept submission. With this in mind, think of how subtly useful a Gravity + Roar + STAB Earthquake Pokemon could be.

Yea, that sold me.

Poison / Ground

!!!

 

[Sunday]

Poison / Ground
I wonder if anyone has noticed how frequently I misspell Poison?

As a support Pokemon, Ground is a pretty nice type. Immunity to all Status not named "You need an ability to get around me (sleep)" or "Insta-dead (freeze)" makes switching in and acting as a semi-status counter possible.

Ice and Ground weaks are inevitable anyway but many of the Pokemon that are going to be carrying an Ice move are Bulky Waters and Bulky Grounds, all of which would much rather hit you with STAB. Being weak to Dragon opens up a whole new can of worms against the Dragon types. (Although admitadly most of them can hit you for SE some otehr way).

Residual damage poses absolutly no threat to a Ground / Poison. This gives it longevity despite slightly less resistances. It also lets it get into stall wars 1-1 and come out on top. Plus it gets a nicer STAB that works well with Gravity. Ground typing even opens up the possibility of it getting Spikes, another very rare and valuable support move with only two (iirc) viable OU users. It's actually rarer than Toxic Spikes with a total of 10 users compared to 13.

 

[Mr Escalator]

POISON/GROUND

A few points Ground has in it's favor...

1. This typing allows it to ignore most entry hazards. Toxic Spikes are abosrbed, It resists Steal Rock, and Spikes is quite uncommon. It can also switch in on Thunder Waves, making it mostly immune to paralysis.
2. Ignores the damaging effect of Sandstorm, which seems to be a more common weather, opposed to hail.
3. Gives a strong STAB move to work with that hurts a common taunter, Skarmory, while Gravity is in affect. This STAB has incredibly nice synergy with Gravity, hurting Bronzong and Gengar for SE.
4. On that note, Ground seems more apt to get a move like Gravity, for stylistic reasons. It would also be more apt to be able to set up Spikes + Stealth Rocks, and it just seems like a more likely choice to Rapid Spin.
5. While Dragon may have more resistances, they arent the most common attacking types, with the exception of electric, yet Ground has this as an immunity.

Now, theres very little Dragon offers over ground except some extra added on resistances.

To quote myself from the previous poll, those this may be considered Poll Jumping, I thought of a way to cover a utility pokemon's inability to stay in on it's weaknesses without being incredibly bulky or having an ability like Thick Fat or Filter, all the while fitting in flavor-wise with ground perfectly.

It looks like Dark will not get enough votes to move on, despite it being an amazing typing and no real reason not to pick this. I've kept an eye on this, and there are only two combinations competing on to the next Part; Dragon and Ground. I've stated my dislike of the dragon concept, so theres no chance of me going for that. I noted that Ground was a good choice save for the crippling weakness's, yet... I've done some thinking ahead and I see how this can certainly work out. Try and bear with me.

The original concept I had for the Poison/Dark was a burrowing spider (think of a Wolf Spider/Funnel Web Spider/Trap Door Spider). This would have access to a lot of flavour utility moves, like the screens as the defense, being able to pull down it's prey with "gravity", and hopefully some way to fit trick room in there. I thought a move similar to Mean Look, Spider Web, could be used to trap the foe, but something else could be done.

The idea of a burrowing spider fits quite well with it being Poison/Ground; It being a venomous being, living in the earth. This transfers over, and I do love this concept. Anyways, this set has a crippling weakness in Ice and Ground type moves. Theres no real way to remove this crippling feature, I thought, without the aid of Filter or something of the like. Well, keeping with the trapping nature of such a spider like pokemon...

Arena Trap.

This would allow it to switch into something that wouldn't threaten it with SE damage. The main issue with a Utility pokemon is that it needs to be relatively bulky to survive switch in's to set up, else it will usually be forced out and that would compromise it's role. Trapping the foe would be a great way to eliminate this weakness in utility pokemon, also allowing us to make this less bulky. We'd have to make sure it couldn't threaten the opponent's pokemon with much offense, so that would be low.

I love the design. An Ant Lion and mole can trap the opponent, so why not a trap door spider?

I know thats jumping ahead a lot, but what do you guys think of it?
So, I'll be changing my original post to redirect to this one.
I hope Dragon doesnt win.

Overall, I think a Ground type would be much more workable to fill the utility role, and ground provides access to a lot of usable support moves. I also don't like the argument that because the Nido's share the same typing that this wouldn't work without overshadowing those two. I don't see the issue, I really don't; they fill different niches than this pure utility would fit in. If anything, they serve as good indicators of how this typing can be molded into a support build.

So thats my vote.

 

[X_Presumptuous]

Ground

Despite all of Dragon's resistances, Pokemon that use them as attacking types often also use Dragon's weaknesses as secondary attacks. I think people heard this enough.
Ground has more/better Utility moves, that's been outlined well by the posts before me ( and let's not forget all those lovely Ground abilities like Sand Veil and Arena Trap ).
...all this explaining feels really redundant after four threads. Yeah. That's my vote.

I wonder if anyone has noticed how frequently I misspell Poison?

Ooh, I noticed: I totally hyperfocus on mispellings like that.
There was a guy who kept saying "Poisen" and another who repeatedly typed it as "Posion"; I'm guessing you were the "Posion" guy?

 

[DoubleUnderscore]

Dragon

Purely for it having more resistances.

 

[Frosty]

Oh God. So we will end up having a pokemon weak to ice after all. Oh well...


I will go with Poison/Ground.

I don't buy the "and the nidos?" argument, TBH. Nidoking and Nidoqueen are both UU and they aren't really "utility pokes" (the first is quite offensive and the second is more of a wall).

That being said, I feel that ground is a better option because it gives this poke a quite useful resistance to rock (read: stealth rocks) and sandstorm, incresing its longevity (which is good, since you will want it to be around for a while), and the combination of Gravity + STAB Earthquake is also quite nice, since it makes Gravity a much more viable option (which is part of the concept).

Because of that and the other reasons already stated before, I will go with Ground. Sure, I don't really like any of the options, so I guess I should go with the lesser evil.

 

[Hairyama]

Poison/Dragon

More resistances, makes more sense for the use of moves like gravity (unless it was really fat, why would a ground type use gravity?), and cooler concept art.

 

[Wyverii]

Poison/Ground

The lesser of two evils in my opinion. ;p Just kidding but it seems far more interesting than poison/dragon despite the fact that two pokes have the same typing already.

 

[Time Mage]

Poison/Ground

Both Ground and Dragon offer distinct and useful advantages, but I feel that Ground is more helpful to a support pokémon, for the reasons stated before this post several times.

 

[TAY]

Dragon

Though I think that both ground and dragon are great options and will be happy either way, I am sticking with my choice of Dragon. I think that the additional resists will be a bit more usable than the electric immunity; but really all my reasons for initially wanting Dragon apply to both types. At this point I really just want to see a support dragon, and I think that the Poison/Dragon concept art has a lot of potential.

 

[Atlas]

dragon

 

[FinnRagetti]

Poison/Ground

 

[latinoheat]

Poison/Ground

The extra resistances that Dragon bring arn't really that helpful when just about everything that uses those type of moves consistantly combines with another move that hits super effective. Predicition and choiced hits would be an arguement if not for the fact that just about everyone one of these pokemon are never choiced and faster, or just takes no damage fron your stabs.

Fire

Azelf- Probably faster so just stops you with Psychic
Heatran- Doesn't take shit from your stabs and has either Dragon Pulse or Land power
Pyroak- OK
Infernape- Mixape is hardly a safe switch in, seen as even if you predict in, its still probably faster. Theother variations its safe against.
Garchomp-Good luck

Water

Outside of maybe Stone edge/Taunt Gyarados is there any water pokemon that doesn't carry ice beam.
Electric

Raikou and Zapdos are common with HP Ice, this is a weakness for both.

 

[Mecha Dunsparce]

Poison/Ground
Seconding Mr Esc points, Ground seems like the better choice for a utility pokemon.

 

[JimBob]

Poison/Ground

with all the people talking about how much it would rule to have a gravity unit, why didn't you vote for mekkah's gravity unit idea?

Regardless, I think Stealth Rock and Sandstorm resistance is more important than a couple extra type resistances.

 

[Mr Escalator]

I wasn't around for the concept voting, but I would of probably gone with the weather abuser set. Though, I still like the idea of a utility poke. I'm going to assume that this was picked because it covered the other sets; anti ghost rapid spinner, gravity unit, etc. The other options were sort of overwhelmed by the openness of this choice.

I guess thats why.

 

[Tsukikage]

Poison/Ground

Ground makes this thing good in weather teams as well, and since they're both weak to Ice anyway, I went with the Stealth Rocks resist.

 

[darkjjak]

Ground

Compared to Dragon, the only thing that worries me is the Water weak compared to the Dragon Weak. I'm sure that Ground will give it more benefits.

I still want to see a Poison/Dragon however.

 

[Buckles]

Poison/Ground

SR resist, Gravity, EQ STAB, it's been said. Not to mention, it owns Heracross with Bug, Fight and Rock resists.

 

[Amelia]

Dragon.

I've stuck with it all this time.