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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Part 1 (Concept Poll 1)
- Thread starter Sunday
- Start date
- Status
I was thinking a lot about this last night. I came within a hairs breadth of simply not including it, and in some ways regretted including it. But the bottom line is my job was to rule out anything that didn't fit with the rules, wasn't viable or was simply a clone. In the end a Garchomp counter is none of these. If people wanted a Garchomp counter, than I'm more than happy enough to moderate over it's creation.
Gliscor is the Heracross counter. I'm quite sure I don't even have to ask you to look at the Gliscor analysis to point out it has other options. Even within the set specifically for countering Heracross is has a ton of support options it's capable of running. It would be the same as this Pokemon (if Garchomp Counter wins the current poll). There's no way it would end up being a deadweight to the team once Garchomp was eliminated, I'm sure it would have ended up with alternate sets to run and they would have been more than enough for me to support the concept.
But it's Flying type, and it can't counter itself :P
(Well it can but no matter what one Zapdos is going to be left standing)
1. Me First
There are lots of Pokemon out there that would be ruined by a fast Me First User. A Garchomp locked into Outrage would be screwed over quite easily, for example.
2. I know what you're doing and I'm not going to allow it!
I like the idea of a Pokemon that can scout the enemy's team quickly. It would be something that could actually use anticipation effectively
There are lots of Pokemon out there that would be ruined by a fast Me First User. A Garchomp locked into Outrage would be screwed over quite easily, for example.
2. I know what you're doing and I'm not going to allow it!
I like the idea of a Pokemon that can scout the enemy's team quickly. It would be something that could actually use anticipation effectively
1. Pure Utility
Obviously, Pyroak, Revenankth, and Syclant could not be called "team players", and I think the game doesn't really have enough viable utility pokemon to choose from, so this should be interesting.
2. Great Lead Pokemon
I also think that there are not enough viable "great lead" pokemon. I am personally tired of seeing the same Gengar/Bronzong/Zapdos leads, so it would be nice to see something a little different.
Obviously, Pyroak, Revenankth, and Syclant could not be called "team players", and I think the game doesn't really have enough viable utility pokemon to choose from, so this should be interesting.
2. Great Lead Pokemon
I also think that there are not enough viable "great lead" pokemon. I am personally tired of seeing the same Gengar/Bronzong/Zapdos leads, so it would be nice to see something a little different.
The Ultimate Weather Abuser- because hailteams really do need a better option than frosslass and walrein
true Garchomp counter- he may just be the cheapest pokemon in any generation, especially this one with his ability and SR resistance
ps I almost voted for anti ghost RS but is it really necessary? Its not like there is an abundance of anti RS ghosts out there. Gengar is too wimpy to switch in too often, meaning dusknoir is really the only thing this will be stopping, and i dont think we need to stop dusknoir as much as garchomp.
true Garchomp counter- he may just be the cheapest pokemon in any generation, especially this one with his ability and SR resistance
ps I almost voted for anti ghost RS but is it really necessary? Its not like there is an abundance of anti RS ghosts out there. Gengar is too wimpy to switch in too often, meaning dusknoir is really the only thing this will be stopping, and i dont think we need to stop dusknoir as much as garchomp.
1. Anti-Ghost Rapid Spin
I want to see Vespiqueen get some use. Bug 90 BP 100 acc is nothing to laugh at.
2. Stat Buster
This looks like the best possibliy for a Garchomp counter. However, to go after Garchomp specifically, I think the best way to shake things up is to create an ability that resists dragon rather than hoping to fix steel.
I want to see Vespiqueen get some use. Bug 90 BP 100 acc is nothing to laugh at.
2. Stat Buster
This looks like the best possibliy for a Garchomp counter. However, to go after Garchomp specifically, I think the best way to shake things up is to create an ability that resists dragon rather than hoping to fix steel.
Honestly the problem with True Garchomp counter is that you either need an impossibly broken floaty steel with great SDef. Think Bronzong only yet more bulky and with Ice Punch/Ice Beam.
Or something nuetral with Steelix-esque defense and Ice Beam, like some kind of supercharged bulky water.
Or a Steel/Fire with Levitate, which is probably more feasible. Heatran spawned a floater @_@.
Levitate:
Steel / Fire
Steel / Water
Steel / Rock
Heatproof:
Steel / Flying
So quite restrictive.
In fact, if Steel/Fire or Steel/Rock were made, Garchomp would probably just run a mixed set using Surf (yeah, he gets it), depending on it's special defense. Could also use Stone Edge / Rock Slide for neutral against Steel / Flying and Steel / Fire. Brick Break is it's best fighting attack, but it would be SE against all but Steel / Flying, x4 against Steel / Rock. Plus there's always HP Electric against Steel / Water and Steel / Flying.
In other words, it's ridiculously restrictive to try and counter Garchomp, though at least it would force him to change his moveset.
Steel / Fire
Steel / Water
Steel / Rock
Heatproof:
Steel / Flying
So quite restrictive.
In fact, if Steel/Fire or Steel/Rock were made, Garchomp would probably just run a mixed set using Surf (yeah, he gets it), depending on it's special defense. Could also use Stone Edge / Rock Slide for neutral against Steel / Flying and Steel / Fire. Brick Break is it's best fighting attack, but it would be SE against all but Steel / Flying, x4 against Steel / Rock. Plus there's always HP Electric against Steel / Water and Steel / Flying.
In other words, it's ridiculously restrictive to try and counter Garchomp, though at least it would force him to change his moveset.
Where is no miss on the list?
EDIT- Nevermind, found it. Damn, tallying votes is hard.
EDIT- Nevermind, found it. Damn, tallying votes is hard.
1.True Garchomp Counter
2. Pure Utility Pokemon
2. Pure Utility Pokemon
I figure resist dragon and ground and neutral to fire is good enough. This allows bug/water, grass/water, and flying/(not weak to fire) as acceptable types as long as we add an ability that grants resistance to dragon (a la heatproof or thick fat). The ability could even be called dragonslayer (or somesuch) and grant resistance to fire and dragon. Draco Meteor down to BP 105 (Outrage 90, Dragon Claw 60), Earthquake at 75 or 0, and Fire Blast could be down to 60.
Even if the garchomp counter is very bulky it's not like we can't make its offensive abilities overly retarded to the point where things not weak to its attacks easily set up on it. Cress with a base special attack of 70 can get a guaranteed OHKO on (non-yache berry) garchomp with some EV investment.
It's not like we have to give it something like hypnosis either or even stealth rock.
It's not like we have to give it something like hypnosis either or even stealth rock.
It's not like this hasn't been stated before:
If Revenankh is the only reason for wanting a anti-ghost rapid spinner then it would just make more sense to weaken/nerf revenankh. In the future, we WILL have the opportunity to vote on this I am sure as Doug does want a revisions process (to the best of my knowledge). You should just be patient until then.
I have a feeling that I'll going to regret saying this someday.
If Revenankh is the only reason for wanting a anti-ghost rapid spinner then it would just make more sense to weaken/nerf revenankh. In the future, we WILL have the opportunity to vote on this I am sure as Doug does want a revisions process (to the best of my knowledge). You should just be patient until then.
I have a feeling that I'll going to regret saying this someday.
Well I do have other reasons for wanting an anti-ghost spinner. So many pokemon can become usable once again if we can finally remove SR with ease. I mean right now all our spinning options are shit. A useful spinner that can do more than just spin is ideal. Also not having 1-2 members of your team slaughtered by SR simply because your opponent has a ghost type is ideal.
We will have a revision process. I know I've been saying that for a LONG time, but it will happen. So many other things have taken priority though. Now that Sunday has taken this latest CAP, I'd like to write up my proposal for revision.
I will be working hard on "another programming project" (wink, wink), but I can't code continuously for days on end. I prefer to break it up with writing posts and other documents. The CAP revision process is my #1 non-coding project now. Keep your eye on the Policy Review thread for the details.
With that in mind, I agree with others that said we should not make a pokemon just to counter Revenankh. However, I still like the idea of a perfect spinner.
Meteorologist + Ultimate Weather Abuser
I had an interesting idea for a new pokemon.
In order for a pokemon to set-up rain, hail, sand, or sun without being locked into using a all four moves in their movepools, they would need one of two things. First, it could be an ability the pokemon has. Second, it could be a single move that can create the weather. My idea runs off the first.
Think about this:
What if there was a pokemon who created weather when it uses a certain move? Even more interesting, if it could use multiple moves and create multiple types of weather. An ability, that when using a certain attribute move would create a corresponding form of weather.
When it uses flamethrower, the sun shines brightly. When the pokemon uses surf, it begins raining. When the pokemon earthquakes, sand is whipped up. When the pokemon uses blizzard, it doesn't stop. Finally, when it uses a normal attribute move, the weather fades.
This could lead to all kinds of possibilities.
1. A weather controller. This could be a set designed to negate sandstream from tyrannitar or hippowdon using moves which are super-effective. This not only sets up weather, but it sets up the team as well.
2. A choice sweeper. Once a certain move is used, such as flamethrower, the corresponding sunny day increases the power. This is the same for rain. This could make choice band/specs/scarf very viable. The first attack strengthens the second one.
I really like this idea, and it would create a more weather-based metagame, and give all sorts of weather utility to any team. This could be used to take away sand-veil from garchomp while hitting it with a super-effective attack.
Gravity Unit
Since my first choice overlaps, I think I can count it as one. If not, ignore this.
I had an interesting idea for a new pokemon.
In order for a pokemon to set-up rain, hail, sand, or sun without being locked into using a all four moves in their movepools, they would need one of two things. First, it could be an ability the pokemon has. Second, it could be a single move that can create the weather. My idea runs off the first.
Think about this:
What if there was a pokemon who created weather when it uses a certain move? Even more interesting, if it could use multiple moves and create multiple types of weather. An ability, that when using a certain attribute move would create a corresponding form of weather.
When it uses flamethrower, the sun shines brightly. When the pokemon uses surf, it begins raining. When the pokemon earthquakes, sand is whipped up. When the pokemon uses blizzard, it doesn't stop. Finally, when it uses a normal attribute move, the weather fades.
This could lead to all kinds of possibilities.
1. A weather controller. This could be a set designed to negate sandstream from tyrannitar or hippowdon using moves which are super-effective. This not only sets up weather, but it sets up the team as well.
2. A choice sweeper. Once a certain move is used, such as flamethrower, the corresponding sunny day increases the power. This is the same for rain. This could make choice band/specs/scarf very viable. The first attack strengthens the second one.
I really like this idea, and it would create a more weather-based metagame, and give all sorts of weather utility to any team. This could be used to take away sand-veil from garchomp while hitting it with a super-effective attack.
Gravity Unit
Since my first choice overlaps, I think I can count it as one. If not, ignore this.
1. Fast Tank
2. Stat Buster
2. Stat Buster
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