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CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 2 - Main Typing Poll
- Thread starter Fuzznip
- Start date
- Status
I like Ground/Fighting
Steel gives fire and fighting weaknesses that are not easily dispelled, electric doesn't give a much needed rock resist.
Ground or fighting gives x2 against stealth rock, and powerful stabs against togekiss's weaknesses.
Ground is my vote because electric immunity comes first.
I had a far better post but fuzznip closed the thread too soon. Blame him if this is below standard!
Steel gives fire and fighting weaknesses that are not easily dispelled, electric doesn't give a much needed rock resist.
Ground or fighting gives x2 against stealth rock, and powerful stabs against togekiss's weaknesses.
Ground is my vote because electric immunity comes first.
I had a far better post but fuzznip closed the thread too soon. Blame him if this is below standard!
I voted for Fighting because it, while it not only had typing synergy with Togekiss, resisting Rock. Also, the Fighting type is only weak to Psychic and Flying, both uncommon in the current OU metagame. Also, Fighting types by rule lure in Ghost types. If one were so to choose, they could run Payback to take care of them if that Ghost runs Electric-type moves, or let Togekiss come in for free.
Also, Fighting-type provides nice offensive synergy with Togekiss. Togekiss lures in Tyranitar and Blissey, letting the Fighting-type come in and kill them. Also, Fighting-types lure in Skarmory, Hippodown, Swampert and other such physical walls, letting Togekiss come in for free as well and either take them out or use them as set-up fodder.
Also, Fighting-type provides nice offensive synergy with Togekiss. Togekiss lures in Tyranitar and Blissey, letting the Fighting-type come in and kill them. Also, Fighting-types lure in Skarmory, Hippodown, Swampert and other such physical walls, letting Togekiss come in for free as well and either take them out or use them as set-up fodder.
I Voted for Fighting, because we should be careful to focus on Togekiss add it's the type that has the most specific synergy with it. Typewise, it resists Rock, Togekiss' greatest weakness, while being neutral to its minor weaknesses, but that's not where it really shine. Fighting has the single best synergy with Flying, can make a great bulky, all-around neutral supporter (like Hariyama in UU) and become very dangerous when passed a Nasty Plot, as not even Blissey can take boosted STAB Aura Spheres (or STAB Close Combats even from a low Atk, should we take an Electivire-like mixed route)
Ground might be better defensively, but it also help every Flying-type out there, especially Gyarados. Any further improvement directed toward Togekiss would also help other Flying types just as much, and we'd end up with Gyarados' perfect mate. However, Fighting only synergizes well with Togekiss' unique Flying STAB and Nasty Passing, as well as dealing with TTar/snorlax/Blissey that don't bother Gyarados at all. Therefore, we can improve CAP11's unique bond with Togekiss as much as we want without risking to help someone else.
We really don't want this CAP to become Gyarados' perfect mate, and that will probably happen if Ground is choosen as the main typing. We can improve a Fighting pokemon's synergy with Togekiss easily through stat spread, ability and movepool, but we can't remove Ground's innate synergy without removing the very things it can offer to Togekiss. As CAP11 will need to remove Rotom-A, Gengar and Zapdos, we really can't give it any other reason to partner with Gyarados, so Electric Immunity is the worse choice we could make.
If defensive synergy is such a concern, I would rather have, for example, Fighting/Electric resisting both Rock and Electric with a welcome Ground weakness than needing to cancel out the Ice weakness with Ground/Steel (Fighting weak), Ground/Fire (lose rock resist), Ground/Water (welcome our brand-new TWave Swampert) or Ground/Ice (lol).
Ground might be better defensively, but it also help every Flying-type out there, especially Gyarados. Any further improvement directed toward Togekiss would also help other Flying types just as much, and we'd end up with Gyarados' perfect mate. However, Fighting only synergizes well with Togekiss' unique Flying STAB and Nasty Passing, as well as dealing with TTar/snorlax/Blissey that don't bother Gyarados at all. Therefore, we can improve CAP11's unique bond with Togekiss as much as we want without risking to help someone else.
We really don't want this CAP to become Gyarados' perfect mate, and that will probably happen if Ground is choosen as the main typing. We can improve a Fighting pokemon's synergy with Togekiss easily through stat spread, ability and movepool, but we can't remove Ground's innate synergy without removing the very things it can offer to Togekiss. As CAP11 will need to remove Rotom-A, Gengar and Zapdos, we really can't give it any other reason to partner with Gyarados, so Electric Immunity is the worse choice we could make.
If defensive synergy is such a concern, I would rather have, for example, Fighting/Electric resisting both Rock and Electric with a welcome Ground weakness than needing to cancel out the Ice weakness with Ground/Steel (Fighting weak), Ground/Fire (lose rock resist), Ground/Water (welcome our brand-new TWave Swampert) or Ground/Ice (lol).
I voted for Ground as the primary typing. I think Ground is a really good typing to compliment Togekiss because it is immune To Electric attacks and strong agains Rock and Stealth Rocks, and Togekiss doesn't really care about non-STAB Ice Beams:
LO Starmie Ice Beam vs 252/0 Togekiss: 53.5% - 63.1%, meaning you can T-wave and Roost.
I also think Steel would be a poor type. It simply has too many crippling weaknesses, coupled with the fact Magnezone can trap you (although Baton pass will probably be part of its moveset). In addition, Steel is a really poor offensive type.
Electric is a good offensive typing, but poor for defensive synergy. It does lure Earthquakes, but many Pokemon that commonly carry Earthquake carry things like Stone Edge, which Togekiss doesn't really like. In addition, the only type it resists that helps Togekiss is Electric, but Groudon is immune to it and resists Rock too.
Fighting, in my opinion, is a good offensive typing, but Ground has more advantages over it when paired alongside Togekiss. And it only resists Rock (not ice...)
LO Starmie Ice Beam vs 252/0 Togekiss: 53.5% - 63.1%, meaning you can T-wave and Roost.
I also think Steel would be a poor type. It simply has too many crippling weaknesses, coupled with the fact Magnezone can trap you (although Baton pass will probably be part of its moveset). In addition, Steel is a really poor offensive type.
Electric is a good offensive typing, but poor for defensive synergy. It does lure Earthquakes, but many Pokemon that commonly carry Earthquake carry things like Stone Edge, which Togekiss doesn't really like. In addition, the only type it resists that helps Togekiss is Electric, but Groudon is immune to it and resists Rock too.
Fighting, in my opinion, is a good offensive typing, but Ground has more advantages over it when paired alongside Togekiss. And it only resists Rock (not ice...)
Voting Ground. It offers more than anything else up there: resisting electric, rock and paralysis, and luring grass. It fails as a stab against some of kiss's counters, and doesn't lure ground, but that can be remedied with a secondary stab.
Ground is also a generally excellent offensive type that can be supported well by kiss, be it through wish or heal bell, or even nasty plot with boosted earth powers.
I don't know why Fighting is doing well, the rock resistance is all it really has and offensively it can't beat kiss's main counters, when kiss generally carries aura sphere anyway. Ground can't either, but it brings much more to the table defensively than fighting.
Ground is also a generally excellent offensive type that can be supported well by kiss, be it through wish or heal bell, or even nasty plot with boosted earth powers.
I don't know why Fighting is doing well, the rock resistance is all it really has and offensively it can't beat kiss's main counters, when kiss generally carries aura sphere anyway. Ground can't either, but it brings much more to the table defensively than fighting.
Aww I missed the discussion. Oh, well. I'm voting for Ground.
Since this isn't the actual discussion thread, I'll try to keep this short. I decided that the first type should resist Rock because there's no better way to reduce Rock-type damage. I took a look at each of the OU Rock resisting types and the usages of resistances to their STAB, and I tallied up roughly how likely it would be for Togekiss and each type to encounter a resistance to either one's STAB. Through this, I determined that Togekiss paired with the Ground type would provide the best offensive synergy by minimizing the need to switch due to being walled and/or outsped. The shared Ice weakness made me consider picking Steel instead, but the secondary type or Thick Fat can cancel that out if it's that worrying. Plus, it's immune to Electric.
Quick edit: Yes, there are some obvious flaws and factors that I've blatantly overlooked. We do have the rest of the process to address these, though. One step at a time...
OK I feel a bit of a need to defend my stance from a philosophical point of view.
The first argument that I want to address is this strange desire to achieve everything with just this one typing. Did I miss something about this being a monotype? I want to stress that this poll is about one of two types that will most definitely be on this Pokémon, and I do not believe that this will do as much to define CAP 11 as people seem to be thinking. But maybe I'm wrong, and previous CAPs that I didn't follow were determined almost entirely from the "main typing". If I'm right, though, I don't see the point of expecting so much from one type.
The other argument is really a category of arguments relating to other CAPs, other existing Pokémon, etc. Personally, I care only about making the best possible partner for Togekiss. Other desires that are irrelevant to this goal should not be allowed to detract from it. If this partner also happens to be a great partner for another more popular Pokémon, then I daresay that we may have already failed by choosing Togekiss in the first place. The same sentiment applies if we end up making a minor variant of another CAP. But I'm going to assume that we have not failed by choosing Togekiss.
Since this isn't the actual discussion thread, I'll try to keep this short. I decided that the first type should resist Rock because there's no better way to reduce Rock-type damage. I took a look at each of the OU Rock resisting types and the usages of resistances to their STAB, and I tallied up roughly how likely it would be for Togekiss and each type to encounter a resistance to either one's STAB. Through this, I determined that Togekiss paired with the Ground type would provide the best offensive synergy by minimizing the need to switch due to being walled and/or outsped. The shared Ice weakness made me consider picking Steel instead, but the secondary type or Thick Fat can cancel that out if it's that worrying. Plus, it's immune to Electric.
Quick edit: Yes, there are some obvious flaws and factors that I've blatantly overlooked. We do have the rest of the process to address these, though. One step at a time...
OK I feel a bit of a need to defend my stance from a philosophical point of view.
The first argument that I want to address is this strange desire to achieve everything with just this one typing. Did I miss something about this being a monotype? I want to stress that this poll is about one of two types that will most definitely be on this Pokémon, and I do not believe that this will do as much to define CAP 11 as people seem to be thinking. But maybe I'm wrong, and previous CAPs that I didn't follow were determined almost entirely from the "main typing". If I'm right, though, I don't see the point of expecting so much from one type.
The other argument is really a category of arguments relating to other CAPs, other existing Pokémon, etc. Personally, I care only about making the best possible partner for Togekiss. Other desires that are irrelevant to this goal should not be allowed to detract from it. If this partner also happens to be a great partner for another more popular Pokémon, then I daresay that we may have already failed by choosing Togekiss in the first place. The same sentiment applies if we end up making a minor variant of another CAP. But I'm going to assume that we have not failed by choosing Togekiss.
No Rock? I'm a sad bunny.
Electric is the best choice left. It lures Ground-type moves for Togekiss and takes Electric attacks, but without the shared weakness of Ground. It also helps to marmalise Zapdos and bulky Water-types as a STAB. It also shifts the metaphase to an orientation that Togekiss can take advantage of - specifically, because it encourages the use of bulky Ground- and Grass-types whom Togekiss can come in on (Of the four Dragons in OU, three take neutral damage from TBolt, and the other's a Ground-type, so that's okay from a theorymon standpoint). If I may also draw your attention, Fuzznip made it clear that this should be a primarily offensive partnership, and Electric does both offensive and defensive adequately. It is an excellent choice for CAP11, even if it is not my personal favourite.
I didn't actually see that much support for Fighting in the discussion thread, and I can't help wondering what it does for Togekiss that no other type does better. SR resistance, Pursuit resistance and U-turn resistance are all good, but I don't like it. It has no defensive synergy and, while it has reasonable offensive synergy, does not promote a desirable metagame for Togekiss. People may be confusing Fighting/Flying coverage with offensive synergy, which is not the case. Togekiss can deal with most of the targets of Fighting attacks through Aura Sphere or Flamethrower.
Steel... just no. No synergy, no thought, just mindless resistances. I don't really know what I can say to add to that, aside from the way it doesn't help Togekiss that much compared to others, doesn't provide any offensive support and doesn't promote a desirable circumstance.
Ground I do not like in the slightest. The shared weakness of Ice, the lack of defensive synergy, and the fact that it does not really promote a metagame that Togekiss can take advantage of. In point of fact, Ground-types could probably be good partners for Togekiss, but not in the way that the concept stated. There is no symbiosis, no mutual benefit, there is only the hulking Colossoil-esque figurine mowing down everything, rebounding and coming back while its teammates look on. This should be a partnership, and neither should be more important than the other. For a partnership of this kind to exist, they have to be more or less equal individually. To be successful our Ground-type would have to have monstrous stats in all areas, and almost certainly more successful itself. This defeats the concept, and hence I simply cannot accept Ground.
I'll be blunt, I don't really like any of these. But as this is the TL's decision, I have to vote Electric.
Electric is the best choice left. It lures Ground-type moves for Togekiss and takes Electric attacks, but without the shared weakness of Ground. It also helps to marmalise Zapdos and bulky Water-types as a STAB. It also shifts the metaphase to an orientation that Togekiss can take advantage of - specifically, because it encourages the use of bulky Ground- and Grass-types whom Togekiss can come in on (Of the four Dragons in OU, three take neutral damage from TBolt, and the other's a Ground-type, so that's okay from a theorymon standpoint). If I may also draw your attention, Fuzznip made it clear that this should be a primarily offensive partnership, and Electric does both offensive and defensive adequately. It is an excellent choice for CAP11, even if it is not my personal favourite.
I didn't actually see that much support for Fighting in the discussion thread, and I can't help wondering what it does for Togekiss that no other type does better. SR resistance, Pursuit resistance and U-turn resistance are all good, but I don't like it. It has no defensive synergy and, while it has reasonable offensive synergy, does not promote a desirable metagame for Togekiss. People may be confusing Fighting/Flying coverage with offensive synergy, which is not the case. Togekiss can deal with most of the targets of Fighting attacks through Aura Sphere or Flamethrower.
Steel... just no. No synergy, no thought, just mindless resistances. I don't really know what I can say to add to that, aside from the way it doesn't help Togekiss that much compared to others, doesn't provide any offensive support and doesn't promote a desirable circumstance.
Ground I do not like in the slightest. The shared weakness of Ice, the lack of defensive synergy, and the fact that it does not really promote a metagame that Togekiss can take advantage of. In point of fact, Ground-types could probably be good partners for Togekiss, but not in the way that the concept stated. There is no symbiosis, no mutual benefit, there is only the hulking Colossoil-esque figurine mowing down everything, rebounding and coming back while its teammates look on. This should be a partnership, and neither should be more important than the other. For a partnership of this kind to exist, they have to be more or less equal individually. To be successful our Ground-type would have to have monstrous stats in all areas, and almost certainly more successful itself. This defeats the concept, and hence I simply cannot accept Ground.
I'll be blunt, I don't really like any of these. But as this is the TL's decision, I have to vote Electric.
Voted Fighting. The Rock resist is far more important than the Electric immunity or resist, IMO. Ground's shared Ice weakness is going to pose a huge problem down the line, and, besides, we already have 'Soil. Electric was a close second for me, but Fighting has a better offensive synergy with a flier than Electric does.
I said in the very first page of the typing thread that these are the best choices, so I am very glad to see them here. I am confident that any of them would result in a good partner for Togekiss.
In the end, though, Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Ground resists Rock and is immune to Electric. It shares a weakness to Ice, but Ice attacks tend to come unSTABbed and special - something Togekiss is good at soaking up. Ground's other weaknesses are Grass and Water: Togekiss resists Grass, and Water is another type that tends to run off the special stat.
So, between Water and Ice, this type isn't perfect... but it's reasonably solid, and an excellent start before we consider secondary typings. And it gets better! Ground is one of the best types for STAB.
Otherwise, I still like Electric and Fighting, and of course Steel gives us lots of options for the secondary typing. I view this as being a poll between four good options.
In the end, though, Keep It Simple, Stupid!
Ground resists Rock and is immune to Electric. It shares a weakness to Ice, but Ice attacks tend to come unSTABbed and special - something Togekiss is good at soaking up. Ground's other weaknesses are Grass and Water: Togekiss resists Grass, and Water is another type that tends to run off the special stat.
So, between Water and Ice, this type isn't perfect... but it's reasonably solid, and an excellent start before we consider secondary typings. And it gets better! Ground is one of the best types for STAB.
Otherwise, I still like Electric and Fighting, and of course Steel gives us lots of options for the secondary typing. I view this as being a poll between four good options.
I voted fighting, as it provides the needed resistances to help Togekiss, and only has uncommon weaknesses. It also makes for an extremely powerful offensive aid. Ground helps other flying types to much, and if we want this to be tailored only to Togekiss Ground won't work. It also bait ghost for Togekiss to switch in on. The only other type that should be noted would be Electric which I would vote for as the secondary typing.
I chose steel here because it resists 2/3 of 'kisses weaknesses, and the rest of the synergy can be added later if it feels necessary at the time.
One of the major problems with togekiss is that it doesn't really counter much of anything, so a steel type with many useful resistances that also pairs well with togekiss would go a long way toward making up for this deficit.
One of the major problems with togekiss is that it doesn't really counter much of anything, so a steel type with many useful resistances that also pairs well with togekiss would go a long way toward making up for this deficit.
I thought I would be voting Ground, however my vote will go to Fighting for a few reasons.
Ground is definitely a great typing for Togekiss to be paired with, however the thing that really turns me off from Ground is that I fear it will be paired commonly with other Flying types as well. Who's to say that CAP 11 won't be paired with Gyarados because it covers a Rock and Electric weakness? If we want CAP 11 to beat Rotom-a because Togekiss is weak to Rotom-a, why not use it in tandem with Gyarados, who also suffers a weakness to it as well? I feel that Fighting is sufficient enough to get the rock resist down as well as have a nice STAB to use against pokemon like Blissey which Togekiss has trouble with, but not necessarily other Flyers in OU.
I fear that should we make this CAP Ground type, there is nothing really stopping it from using it in combination with something like Zapdos and succeeding even more than if it was paired with Togekiss. Zapdos has very similar synergy to Togekiss in that it is a special flyer who loses to things like Tyranitar and Blissey, also defensive variants of Rotom-a. We must be careful not to make this a perfect mate for both kinds of pokemon, and I feel Fighting will help with that. Fighting keeps the nice SR and Rock resist that will give a backbone to Togekiss, and not shift the attention away from Togekiss and onto something that would LOVE ground type perfect partners more, such as Gyarados.
Guys, vote what you really want to win, not for what the most popular choices are ~_~
Ground is definitely a great typing for Togekiss to be paired with, however the thing that really turns me off from Ground is that I fear it will be paired commonly with other Flying types as well. Who's to say that CAP 11 won't be paired with Gyarados because it covers a Rock and Electric weakness? If we want CAP 11 to beat Rotom-a because Togekiss is weak to Rotom-a, why not use it in tandem with Gyarados, who also suffers a weakness to it as well? I feel that Fighting is sufficient enough to get the rock resist down as well as have a nice STAB to use against pokemon like Blissey which Togekiss has trouble with, but not necessarily other Flyers in OU.
I fear that should we make this CAP Ground type, there is nothing really stopping it from using it in combination with something like Zapdos and succeeding even more than if it was paired with Togekiss. Zapdos has very similar synergy to Togekiss in that it is a special flyer who loses to things like Tyranitar and Blissey, also defensive variants of Rotom-a. We must be careful not to make this a perfect mate for both kinds of pokemon, and I feel Fighting will help with that. Fighting keeps the nice SR and Rock resist that will give a backbone to Togekiss, and not shift the attention away from Togekiss and onto something that would LOVE ground type perfect partners more, such as Gyarados.
Guys, vote what you really want to win, not for what the most popular choices are ~_~
I voted Fighting, because it is a typing that would benefit Togekiss more than most other flying types. Since Togekiss lives on as one of the only Specially offensive based Flying types in OU, it really needs a reliable partner to break through special walls such as Blissey, and a fighting type user packs the STAB attacks to blast through them. If CAP11 was a fighting type, it would probably be paired with Togekiss over other Flying types such as Salamence, Gyarados, and Dragonite since they don't need a way to beat Special Walls.
Fighting's resistance to the ever-common Stealth Rock is also incredibly useful as it means CAP11 can repeatedly switch-in to support Togekiss without worrying about residual damage.
On top of this, we all know how potent the Fighting + Flying Offensive Combination is.
Vote Fighting!
Fighting's resistance to the ever-common Stealth Rock is also incredibly useful as it means CAP11 can repeatedly switch-in to support Togekiss without worrying about residual damage.
On top of this, we all know how potent the Fighting + Flying Offensive Combination is.
Vote Fighting!
steel: yes it draws earthquake for the switch, but if you missinterpret your opponet and switch togekiss into a fighting or fire move, there's a good chance the togekiss will be OHKOed.
fighting: great synergy with flying, counters rock and ice well and does better against electric (obviouly). also lures ghosts. my vote goes here. problem is, this will definitely have to be a dual type, as most fightings have low defenses.
fighting: great synergy with flying, counters rock and ice well and does better against electric (obviouly). also lures ghosts. my vote goes here. problem is, this will definitely have to be a dual type, as most fightings have low defenses.
I read almost every post in the discussion so I had a wide view of everyone's contradicting opinions. The only complaints Ground recieved were of the Ice weakness, but Togekiss isn't that bad at taking ice anyway, and the weakness on CAP can easily be put aside by something like Ability or second typing. That is why I voted for it.
I really wanted to vote Electric or Steel, to lure Earthquake and Togekiss into it, but it just didn't seem as logical, nor as compatible.
I really wanted to vote Electric or Steel, to lure Earthquake and Togekiss into it, but it just didn't seem as logical, nor as compatible.
I voted for Ground, primarily because of the potential of the type itself. It instantly provides a great switch in to Thunderbolts and Thunder Waves aimed at Togekiss. Of course, Ground also gets a nice Rock resist that can work with both Stealth Rock and Stone Edges/Rock Slides also sent Togekiss' way. STAB Earthquake and likely a Rock move is also great to have, too.
Additionally, there's a few secondary typings that would work extremely well with a Ground typing, in order to maximize this pokemon's potential as a perfect mate. I don't want to start or aid the secondary type discussion here, though (I'm assuming there will be a secondary discussion debate thread)
Additionally, there's a few secondary typings that would work extremely well with a Ground typing, in order to maximize this pokemon's potential as a perfect mate. I don't want to start or aid the secondary type discussion here, though (I'm assuming there will be a secondary discussion debate thread)
Steel because the "pointless resistances" give great synergy. Steel grants Toxic immunity and can sponge non-fighting hits that Togekiss would have trouble with. Also, most Fighting types will NEVER switch in on Togekiss, so, with good prediction, eliminate the Fighting weakness by switching Kiss in on Fighters.
Ground is a good second choice, electric and fighting are just fail...
Ground is a good second choice, electric and fighting are just fail...
Ivoted for fighting for a couple of reasons:
#1: great offensive synergy and OK defensive synergy with togekiss I mean come on, a resistance to rock and the flying fighting combo make this a reliable option
#2: with this pokemon having stab fighting type moves, togekiss can use shadow ball without worrying about not having aura sphere.
also, let me just say that ground will really only be able to be tailored to togekiss if we give it a ghost weakness EDIT: i just figured out that giving it terreble sp.defence is irrelevent and will just give mantine more leverage.
if you think that I am wrong in what I have just sed please pm me with your argument.
#1: great offensive synergy and OK defensive synergy with togekiss I mean come on, a resistance to rock and the flying fighting combo make this a reliable option
#2: with this pokemon having stab fighting type moves, togekiss can use shadow ball without worrying about not having aura sphere.
also, let me just say that ground will really only be able to be tailored to togekiss if we give it a ghost weakness EDIT: i just figured out that giving it terreble sp.defence is irrelevent and will just give mantine more leverage.
if you think that I am wrong in what I have just sed please pm me with your argument.
I voted for Fighting.
The SR resist, ability to defeat Blissey, the typical offensive synergy seen with the type and Flying, and the luring of Ghosts are major bonuses. The Ground type attracts Ice moves, a dominant attacking type in the metagame.The weaknesses of Fighting are underused in OU and can be remedied with the Rock and Dark moves fighting types carry, and these same moves can be used to beat the Ghosts and Zapdos, both potential problems for the combo. I don't see Thunder Wave as much of a problem, a Fighting type can be given Guts or another ability to benefit from status, and Kiss carries Heal Bell.
The SR resist, ability to defeat Blissey, the typical offensive synergy seen with the type and Flying, and the luring of Ghosts are major bonuses. The Ground type attracts Ice moves, a dominant attacking type in the metagame.The weaknesses of Fighting are underused in OU and can be remedied with the Rock and Dark moves fighting types carry, and these same moves can be used to beat the Ghosts and Zapdos, both potential problems for the combo. I don't see Thunder Wave as much of a problem, a Fighting type can be given Guts or another ability to benefit from status, and Kiss carries Heal Bell.
Voted for Fighting, because I agree that this pokemon shouldn't be a pokemon made only to shut down all of Togekiss's counters, because then it will be used for that alone. Fighting gives it a good STAB, has great synergy with Flying, resists Rock, and doesn't have too many common weaknesses. It just seems like the best option we're gonna get.
I voted Ground, as covering two of Togekiss' most threatening weaknesses is a top priority, as well as luring in grass attacks that Togekiss can take on comfortably. Ice is a lesser threat, in my opinion, and a steel typing would not reliably scare of jolteon, lanturn, and friends without a good special defense investement (which is redundant with Togekiss). There is also the all-important Thunder Wave absorption that ground provides.
As for helping other pokemon like Gyarados and Zapdos more than Togekiss, I am confident that can be worked around, but won't go into that in this thread.
I believe Electric could also work, but think it would be better to assure both Electric and Rock resistances in the main typing. And Fighting does not appeal to me so much, and others have mentioned Togekiss' similar Aura Sphere coverage.
As for helping other pokemon like Gyarados and Zapdos more than Togekiss, I am confident that can be worked around, but won't go into that in this thread.
I believe Electric could also work, but think it would be better to assure both Electric and Rock resistances in the main typing. And Fighting does not appeal to me so much, and others have mentioned Togekiss' similar Aura Sphere coverage.
I am going Ground, it leaves open a lot of cool secondary typings. Fighting is just boring to me for this project and Electric and Steel can come in later.
Personally, I feel that Fighting and Steel are the only two reasonable types (and Steel only because an immunity to Fighting can be added with the Ghost type).
I could write out the reasons I oppose Ground, but plenty of people have already done so. The most important is that a bulky, versatile Ground-type helps out way too many Flying types other than Togekiss.
I could write out the reasons I oppose Ground, but plenty of people have already done so. The most important is that a bulky, versatile Ground-type helps out way too many Flying types other than Togekiss.
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