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CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 6.5 (BST Spillover)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
- Start date
- Status
The base 65 leaves it not only Defensively special, it also makes it die to random CBAA Weaviles, and Stone edges. Bad.
Biggest problem i see is that looks like a SUnflora evo, which we are most certainly not doing. The woodman looks like he can take a fuckload of hits too.
To recap my stuff:
BST 545:
100/60/100/125/100/60
110/60/110/95/110/60
110/70/105/105/105/60
Or close Variations (+- 5-10 stat points of Defences and Offences)
BST 535:
102/55/102/112/102/62
Take that Swampert! *OHKO's with GK*
526-535
dont overpower it.
dont overpower it.
Why are we worrying about base stat totals now anyway? Shouldn't we choose the art first? I mean I know I've been active on the base stat ideas, but now that I think about it, we should fit base stats to the Pokemon, not Pokemon to the base stats.
I also don't see why we're worried about the total. It seems like if we set a total, we're required to meet that total, even if balancing it out would require to have less than the total we agreed on.
For example, if Nintendo came up with the total before the stat distribution, things like Rampardos would probably have higher defenses or speed, thus making him overpowered.
Shitty example, but it's better than coming up with something completely new.
[edit] Also, I know Nintendo seems to have a fetish with numbers divisible by 5, but that doesn't mean we have to. I don't think we should constrain our own stat builds around the "lol make it divisible by 5" rule.
ps: and ffs yes I know there are some Pokemon that have stats that aren't divisible by 5, but they are few and far between.
For example, if Nintendo came up with the total before the stat distribution, things like Rampardos would probably have higher defenses or speed, thus making him overpowered.
Shitty example, but it's better than coming up with something completely new.
[edit] Also, I know Nintendo seems to have a fetish with numbers divisible by 5, but that doesn't mean we have to. I don't think we should constrain our own stat builds around the "lol make it divisible by 5" rule.
ps: and ffs yes I know there are some Pokemon that have stats that aren't divisible by 5, but they are few and far between.
I've got spreads for both hypothetical situations.
Art = Base stats. They mould eachother. Besides, there is alternate spreads like the 80/90/85/130/85/75 Spread i posted for KoA's cockatrice.
Make up a hypothetical situation for both.
See my BST 535 for that one ;)
526-535, with typing that good you don't need (or want) the stats to go overboard.
Going with 536-545
95 HP /60 Atk / 100 Def / 108 SpA / 92 SDef / 90 Spe
545 Total
I think something along the idea of this spread would be pretty cool for this poke.
Looking over Aldaron's summary of all the Fire types base stats I agree that we might want to deviate from norm/average for the sake of creativity/originality.
I'll talk a bit about the base stats now
HP: 95.
77.25 is the average for most fire types and with the idea of a balanced spread that the community seems to have agreed on I've decided that base 95 is probaly ideal for ths pokemon.
I didnt want to take it higher than base 100 as base 95 does the job well enough without having to resort to the generic base 100 HP alot of people seem to want just so it can "sub" up against Blissey, which could pose a problem especially with the remainder of it's stats.
Also this high HP is a necessity if we want the pokemon to function well defensively, especially if its a mixed defender.
Atk: 60
The community already agreed on the pokemon being more
Special based. Base 60 does leave alot to be desired, but it could still possibly take advantage of some attacks like Focus Punch if we so choose to give it that later on.
Def: 100
The 100 base stat in defense allows it to take some hits without it being the next SKarmory/Hippowdon, it's actually pretty similar to Swampert in terms of taking hits defensively which we all can agree is good but not over the top.
SpAtk: 108
The community decided on the pokemon to be more special based so i decided on the base 108 Spatk for a little punch in its attacks even without EV investment, however if one so chooses to make it a sweeper it's special attack is still going to be high enough to make opponents think twice about what they switch in.
SDef: 92
Bulky stat on the special side to comply with the "balanced" idea, capable of taking a few hits but it's not unstoppable.
Spe: 90
Pretty mediocre speed allows it to outspeed most defensive threats.
With a positive speed nature it has the option of outspeeding base 100 pokes and can function decently as a sweeper in some cases without going overboard like everyones favorite Ice/Bug pokemon -_-
95 HP /60 Atk / 100 Def / 108 SpA / 92 SDef / 90 Spe
545 Total
I think something along the idea of this spread would be pretty cool for this poke.
Looking over Aldaron's summary of all the Fire types base stats I agree that we might want to deviate from norm/average for the sake of creativity/originality.
I'll talk a bit about the base stats now
HP: 95.
77.25 is the average for most fire types and with the idea of a balanced spread that the community seems to have agreed on I've decided that base 95 is probaly ideal for ths pokemon.
I didnt want to take it higher than base 100 as base 95 does the job well enough without having to resort to the generic base 100 HP alot of people seem to want just so it can "sub" up against Blissey, which could pose a problem especially with the remainder of it's stats.
Also this high HP is a necessity if we want the pokemon to function well defensively, especially if its a mixed defender.
Atk: 60
The community already agreed on the pokemon being more
Special based. Base 60 does leave alot to be desired, but it could still possibly take advantage of some attacks like Focus Punch if we so choose to give it that later on.
Def: 100
The 100 base stat in defense allows it to take some hits without it being the next SKarmory/Hippowdon, it's actually pretty similar to Swampert in terms of taking hits defensively which we all can agree is good but not over the top.
SpAtk: 108
The community decided on the pokemon to be more special based so i decided on the base 108 Spatk for a little punch in its attacks even without EV investment, however if one so chooses to make it a sweeper it's special attack is still going to be high enough to make opponents think twice about what they switch in.
SDef: 92
Bulky stat on the special side to comply with the "balanced" idea, capable of taking a few hits but it's not unstoppable.
Spe: 90
Pretty mediocre speed allows it to outspeed most defensive threats.
With a positive speed nature it has the option of outspeeding base 100 pokes and can function decently as a sweeper in some cases without going overboard like everyones favorite Ice/Bug pokemon -_-
How bout we say the leeway for this special/physical difference is 25%? I'm think I'm doing the math wrong but if using 25% the difference and 110 as your starting point, the higher it could go before being considered balanced would be 82.5. Not sure that would help in anyway, I could say we could do it like what they did with Style and make it 20%
In my opinion, Aldaron's spread is still the best as it covers everything I want to see in this Pokemon and also balances it out, with Hyra's being extremely close in second, because his speed is too high, something that Aldaron fixed in his spread. So, unless Aldaron wants to lower his spread by 5 base points, I'll vote for 536-545.
And, Maniaclyrasist, I don't think anyone that has ask for high HP has even mentioned the Blissey thing. xD That is probably the least likely reason that high HP is favorable, especially when people have already established that "subseeding" should just be forgotten.
And, Maniaclyrasist, I don't think anyone that has ask for high HP has even mentioned the Blissey thing. xD That is probably the least likely reason that high HP is favorable, especially when people have already established that "subseeding" should just be forgotten.
See guys, here is the issue. Before we get into Speed, let's establish what the community has basically outlined...
Bulky both ways and Special Attacking. While this doesn't necessarily mean Special Attack has to be high, as we could make it 80 and Atk 56, the general trend I am picking up is that people wish for it to have relatively high Special Attack, meaning 100 minimum.
If we are making this bulky boths ways and giving it high Special Attack, we really can't afford to make its Speed high, lol.
Just as two "for examples," Hyra and Maniac both posted spreads with around 84-94 Speed. They also kept the wishes of the community alive...they had the Pokemon bulky both ways and had decently high Special Attack. However, with their Speed values, their stat analysis numbers (according X-Act's brilliant guide) were either just below Syclant's (559 for Hyra's) or actually above it (564 for Maniac's).
Now let's look at this for a moment. Syclant's stat number was brought down by its obvious frailty...but this Pokemon? Its stat number, for the previous two spreads, is brought down by Attack, a stat it isn't even using. What does this mean? The actually efficiency of its stats is much higher.
So OK, we have a Pokemon with a better stat spread than Syclant (for sure)...That doesn't prove much, right? Well....now look at said Pokemon's STABS...Fire / Grass, and its plethora of support moves helped by high bulk...honestly, we're really building a Uber Pokemon if we give it anything higher than 60 Speed.
I've already outlined why 60 Speed is better for it, to allow Tyranitar to still generally have a chance at OHKOing it with Stone Edge (Choice Band) and for it to require significant EV investment (160 Speed) to tie minimum Speed Togekiss, and thereby reduce its overall purpose.
My spread, 115 HP / 74 Atk / 102 Def / 106 SpA / 83 SpD / 60 Spe
reaches a stat number of 528. Still in the very good category, yet a significant 34 points away from Syclant, and it is hurt more by terrible Speed than mediocre Attack, much more detrimental than only being hurt by a terrible Attack that it would never use.
Bulky both ways and Special Attacking. While this doesn't necessarily mean Special Attack has to be high, as we could make it 80 and Atk 56, the general trend I am picking up is that people wish for it to have relatively high Special Attack, meaning 100 minimum.
If we are making this bulky boths ways and giving it high Special Attack, we really can't afford to make its Speed high, lol.
Just as two "for examples," Hyra and Maniac both posted spreads with around 84-94 Speed. They also kept the wishes of the community alive...they had the Pokemon bulky both ways and had decently high Special Attack. However, with their Speed values, their stat analysis numbers (according X-Act's brilliant guide) were either just below Syclant's (559 for Hyra's) or actually above it (564 for Maniac's).
Now let's look at this for a moment. Syclant's stat number was brought down by its obvious frailty...but this Pokemon? Its stat number, for the previous two spreads, is brought down by Attack, a stat it isn't even using. What does this mean? The actually efficiency of its stats is much higher.
So OK, we have a Pokemon with a better stat spread than Syclant (for sure)...That doesn't prove much, right? Well....now look at said Pokemon's STABS...Fire / Grass, and its plethora of support moves helped by high bulk...honestly, we're really building a Uber Pokemon if we give it anything higher than 60 Speed.
I've already outlined why 60 Speed is better for it, to allow Tyranitar to still generally have a chance at OHKOing it with Stone Edge (Choice Band) and for it to require significant EV investment (160 Speed) to tie minimum Speed Togekiss, and thereby reduce its overall purpose.
My spread, 115 HP / 74 Atk / 102 Def / 106 SpA / 83 SpD / 60 Spe
reaches a stat number of 528. Still in the very good category, yet a significant 34 points away from Syclant, and it is hurt more by terrible Speed than mediocre Attack, much more detrimental than only being hurt by a terrible Attack that it would never use.
My spread:
Hp - 99
Atk - 72
Def - 115
SpAtk - 97
SpDef - 93
Speed - 69
Total - 545
Defense given is the same as Sudowoodo. It grants physical bulk, while not being entirely consumed by the stat.
Special Defense calculated out as 81% of Defense. This yields 93.15, rounded down to 93.
Speed is 69 to outspeed non-scarfed and non +speed nature Togekiss if this Pokemon uses a +speed nature and 252 speed EVs. A +speed nature Togekiss needs only invest 168 EVs to ensure it outspeeds this Pokemon. Though it might seem like being able to outspeed base 80 speed Pokemon is too good, remember that this forces it to use both a specific nature and 252 EVs. This leaves it with only 258 EVs to distribute among the rest of it's stats. This also gives it a relatively slow speed, so that it can "throw it's bulk around", similar to Swampert.
HP at 99 allows for large HP, enough to survive four Seismic Tosses or Night Shades if need be. It also prevents 101 Subs, but still yields a perfect regenerative spread with 248 EVs in HP. This grants 401 (402 maximum with full 252 EVs) which has 1/4th be 100hp, and 1/16th would be 25hp.
Special Attack of 97 gives it more special attack than Walrein Golduck, Electivire, and Kingdra, but less than Dragonite, Arcanine, Starmie, and Venusaur. It's enough to pack a punch without being an outright devastating Hulk.
Attack at 72 is 74.22% of Special Attack. This provides a usable stat if given Rock Head along with Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer. This would provide this Pokemon with a "Boah" set, with a usable physical pool, while still maintaining Special as it's primary attack type outside of the "Boah" set.
Overall Defensive Worth:
EVs used - 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD +SpDef Nature
Spread after EVs - 402 HP / 306 Def / 277 SpDef
Defense = HP x Def
Defense = 402 x 306
Defense = 123012
Special Defense = HP x SpDef
Special Defense = 402 x 277
Special Defense = 111354
Using X-Act's calculations:
Normalized stats:
Hp = 99/4 + 18 = 42.75
Atk = 72 + 18 = 90
Def = 115 + 18 = 133
SpAtk = 97 + 18 = 115
SpDef = 93 + 18 = 111
Speed = 69 + 18 = 87
Speed Factor = 0.55
AT = 90 + 115 = 205
Tankiness = (HP x Def x SpDef) / (Def + SpDef)
Tankiness = (42.75 x 133 x 111) / (133 + 111)
Tankiness = 631118.25 / 244
Tankiness = 2586.550204918032786885245901639
Sweepiness = AT x (SF x AT + 630) / ((1 - SF) x AT + 630)
Sweepiness = 205 x (0.55 x 205 + 630) / ((1 - 0.55) x 205 + 630)
Sweepiness = (205 x 742.75) / 722.25
Sweepiness = 152263.75 / 722.25
Sweepiness = 210.8186223606784354447905849775
Rating = Tankiness x Sweepiness / 1000
Rating = 2586.550204918032786885245901639 x 210.8186223606784354447905849775 / 1000
Rating = 545292.9508675501761912057606863 / 1000
Rating = 545.2929508675501761912057606863
Rounded Rating: 545
Stats are: Very Good
Hp - 99
Atk - 72
Def - 115
SpAtk - 97
SpDef - 93
Speed - 69
Total - 545
Defense given is the same as Sudowoodo. It grants physical bulk, while not being entirely consumed by the stat.
Special Defense calculated out as 81% of Defense. This yields 93.15, rounded down to 93.
Speed is 69 to outspeed non-scarfed and non +speed nature Togekiss if this Pokemon uses a +speed nature and 252 speed EVs. A +speed nature Togekiss needs only invest 168 EVs to ensure it outspeeds this Pokemon. Though it might seem like being able to outspeed base 80 speed Pokemon is too good, remember that this forces it to use both a specific nature and 252 EVs. This leaves it with only 258 EVs to distribute among the rest of it's stats. This also gives it a relatively slow speed, so that it can "throw it's bulk around", similar to Swampert.
HP at 99 allows for large HP, enough to survive four Seismic Tosses or Night Shades if need be. It also prevents 101 Subs, but still yields a perfect regenerative spread with 248 EVs in HP. This grants 401 (402 maximum with full 252 EVs) which has 1/4th be 100hp, and 1/16th would be 25hp.
Special Attack of 97 gives it more special attack than Walrein Golduck, Electivire, and Kingdra, but less than Dragonite, Arcanine, Starmie, and Venusaur. It's enough to pack a punch without being an outright devastating Hulk.
Attack at 72 is 74.22% of Special Attack. This provides a usable stat if given Rock Head along with Flare Blitz and Wood Hammer. This would provide this Pokemon with a "Boah" set, with a usable physical pool, while still maintaining Special as it's primary attack type outside of the "Boah" set.
Overall Defensive Worth:
EVs used - 252 HP / 160 Def / 96 SpD +SpDef Nature
Spread after EVs - 402 HP / 306 Def / 277 SpDef
Defense = HP x Def
Defense = 402 x 306
Defense = 123012
Special Defense = HP x SpDef
Special Defense = 402 x 277
Special Defense = 111354
Using X-Act's calculations:
Normalized stats:
Hp = 99/4 + 18 = 42.75
Atk = 72 + 18 = 90
Def = 115 + 18 = 133
SpAtk = 97 + 18 = 115
SpDef = 93 + 18 = 111
Speed = 69 + 18 = 87
Speed Factor = 0.55
AT = 90 + 115 = 205
Tankiness = (HP x Def x SpDef) / (Def + SpDef)
Tankiness = (42.75 x 133 x 111) / (133 + 111)
Tankiness = 631118.25 / 244
Tankiness = 2586.550204918032786885245901639
Sweepiness = AT x (SF x AT + 630) / ((1 - SF) x AT + 630)
Sweepiness = 205 x (0.55 x 205 + 630) / ((1 - 0.55) x 205 + 630)
Sweepiness = (205 x 742.75) / 722.25
Sweepiness = 152263.75 / 722.25
Sweepiness = 210.8186223606784354447905849775
Rating = Tankiness x Sweepiness / 1000
Rating = 2586.550204918032786885245901639 x 210.8186223606784354447905849775 / 1000
Rating = 545292.9508675501761912057606863 / 1000
Rating = 545.2929508675501761912057606863
Rounded Rating: 545
Stats are: Very Good
Btw, just as a general "line" I guess that you guys can use to make judgments off of, I'll post the Stat Number for five Pokemon in the Very Good list that rely on their impressive STABs, Togekiss, Infernape, Kingdra, Mamoswine, and Flygon.
Togekiss- 537.
Infernape- 536.
Kingdra- 533.
Mamoswine- 513.
Flygon- 500.
The trend was for the lower end of the Very Good list, which is why I specifically geared my spread towards 528.
The maximum given to a Very Good Pokemon that emphasizes both of its STABs was 537...I think this should be taken into consideration, especially since besides Infernape and Flygon, this has arguably better STABs + potential movepool (I admit that Mamoswine's Ice / Ground, however, the 65 max for physical attack in a move is very detrimental) than the rest.
Togekiss- 537.
Infernape- 536.
Kingdra- 533.
Mamoswine- 513.
Flygon- 500.
The trend was for the lower end of the Very Good list, which is why I specifically geared my spread towards 528.
The maximum given to a Very Good Pokemon that emphasizes both of its STABs was 537...I think this should be taken into consideration, especially since besides Infernape and Flygon, this has arguably better STABs + potential movepool (I admit that Mamoswine's Ice / Ground, however, the 65 max for physical attack in a move is very detrimental) than the rest.
Here is my thoughts of the base stats i feel this Pokemon should recieve. I will also add a little bit of extra things such as, signature moves and also abilites that may work.
HP-100
404 HP seems to fit this sort of tankish Pokemon perfectly. Can create 101 subs to go along with Leech Seeding. Also lets him tank generally well while probably trying to gain back HP from Stealth Rock Damage.
Attack-65
Base Stat of 65, which I think this Base Stat is pretty reasonable for this style of Pokemon. I also got that number from the Pokemon called Gardevoir. The only physical attack it probably may use is Head Smash or Flare Blitz. Let's not forget that we chose this thing to be mainly special attacking.
Speed-78
This speed is very appropriate in my eyes for it isn't very fast, and also requires little EV investment to out speed certain threats so it may Sub first or Leech Seed first.
Defense-95
Solid Number for tanking, very solid number. Allows him to take nuetral hits very well, just ask Swampert. Probably can take Waterfall from Bulky Gyarados and other things with a simular ev spread to Swampert.
Special Defense- 95
Just as the much as the Defense. Probably can serve as a decent Heatran switch in or Jolteon counter. Can still survive Surf's from Starmie dependent on the EV spread.
Special Attack- 104
Now for the Special Attack i got this number from Infernape whose Special Attack always seemed so balanced and not broken. So i figured this could fit this Pokemon as well, and not leave it's STAB Special Attack moves in the atic some where and make them worth using.
Total Stat- 537
So with these sort of stats here are the abilities i have thought of that may fit the Pokemon. Here is the Pokemon image i am basing these things off.
~ Battle Armor- His whole body is basically filled with armor, it seems appropiate.
~ Drought- As much as this is a Uber ability, this guy looks so much like a Sun God of some sort.
~ Flash Fire- With fire burning around his wooden cannons it seems Flash Fire is fits this oh so nicely. Lets be real, wood on fire and not burning? Flash Fire seems it fits this nicely
Signature moves i feel this guy should have
Head Smash
Flare Blitz
Power Whip
I created this 2 movesets from the moveset pool i made for this Pokemon myself.
Moveset #1
Head Smash / Growth
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ Ice ]
~The idea behind this moveset is to sweep late game maybe after being passed an Agility or some sort of speed booster. Head Smash is mainly there for Gyarados, Zapdos and Togekiss, and also the infamous Charizard and Moltres. HP Ice is there for Dragons, while Flamethrower and Energy Ball is the for STAB
Moveset #2
Leech Seed
Substitute
Flare Blitz
Energy Ball / Protect
~Basic sub seeder. Flare Blitz is over Flamethrower so that you can crush Blissey, and not take recoil. ( Rock Head ) Energy Ball is so Rapid Spin Starmie doesn't beat you. Or you can use protect to recover more and also to scout from choice item Pokes.
So that is my base stat review and a little extra
HP-100
404 HP seems to fit this sort of tankish Pokemon perfectly. Can create 101 subs to go along with Leech Seeding. Also lets him tank generally well while probably trying to gain back HP from Stealth Rock Damage.
Attack-65
Base Stat of 65, which I think this Base Stat is pretty reasonable for this style of Pokemon. I also got that number from the Pokemon called Gardevoir. The only physical attack it probably may use is Head Smash or Flare Blitz. Let's not forget that we chose this thing to be mainly special attacking.
Speed-78
This speed is very appropriate in my eyes for it isn't very fast, and also requires little EV investment to out speed certain threats so it may Sub first or Leech Seed first.
Defense-95
Solid Number for tanking, very solid number. Allows him to take nuetral hits very well, just ask Swampert. Probably can take Waterfall from Bulky Gyarados and other things with a simular ev spread to Swampert.
Special Defense- 95
Just as the much as the Defense. Probably can serve as a decent Heatran switch in or Jolteon counter. Can still survive Surf's from Starmie dependent on the EV spread.
Special Attack- 104
Now for the Special Attack i got this number from Infernape whose Special Attack always seemed so balanced and not broken. So i figured this could fit this Pokemon as well, and not leave it's STAB Special Attack moves in the atic some where and make them worth using.
Total Stat- 537
So with these sort of stats here are the abilities i have thought of that may fit the Pokemon. Here is the Pokemon image i am basing these things off.
~ Rock Head- With this Rock Type Body, wooden cannons on his arms and a wooden helmet on his head, it seems it may fit. Also will go well with Flare Blitz and Head Smash and possibly Power Whip, but Power Whip doesn't seem to fit this image. I think Rock Head is by far the best ability this guy can use. I also have moves in place that benefits from it.Haha, great to see all this feedback on my designs. I realized that a lot of the sentiment amongst you guys was that the Woodman design, as you guys have named it, looks more like a physical wall than anything else and wanted flamethrowers on the arms.
Here is my offering.
Any thoughts?
~ Battle Armor- His whole body is basically filled with armor, it seems appropiate.
~ Drought- As much as this is a Uber ability, this guy looks so much like a Sun God of some sort.
~ Flash Fire- With fire burning around his wooden cannons it seems Flash Fire is fits this oh so nicely. Lets be real, wood on fire and not burning? Flash Fire seems it fits this nicely
Signature moves i feel this guy should have
Head Smash
Flare Blitz
Power Whip
I created this 2 movesets from the moveset pool i made for this Pokemon myself.
Moveset #1
Head Smash / Growth
Flamethrower
Energy Ball
Hidden Power [ Ice ]
~The idea behind this moveset is to sweep late game maybe after being passed an Agility or some sort of speed booster. Head Smash is mainly there for Gyarados, Zapdos and Togekiss, and also the infamous Charizard and Moltres. HP Ice is there for Dragons, while Flamethrower and Energy Ball is the for STAB
Moveset #2
Leech Seed
Substitute
Flare Blitz
Energy Ball / Protect
~Basic sub seeder. Flare Blitz is over Flamethrower so that you can crush Blissey, and not take recoil. ( Rock Head ) Energy Ball is so Rapid Spin Starmie doesn't beat you. Or you can use protect to recover more and also to scout from choice item Pokes.
So that is my base stat review and a little extra
85 HP / 82 Atk / 81 Def / 116 SpA / 97 SpD / 79 Spe - Total 540.
HP: 85 is a reasonable number. It falls well within the precedent left behind by most other Fire types, and gives solid durability when combined with both of our Pokemon's defenses. It's hard to really go into detail on how HP will be effective since it's completely reliant on Defense and Special Defense, so I'll delve into that in the respective sections of each stat.
Attack: 82 really isn't a perfect number for a straight physical sweeper, but it's not entirely unusable either. This Pokemon is meant to be more of a special attacker anyways, but given that Fire/Grass hits Super Effective on nearly every physical wall and the fact that our Pokemon will likely have access to several powerful physical options depending on design (Power Whip, Wood Hammer, and Flare Blitz are all potential moves, possibly boosting options like Swords Dance as well), 82 attack gives our Pokemon a fighting chance on the physical side.
Defense: 81. With a balanced defensive spread, 81 is a reasonable amount of defense to have. Combined with the HP, you barely survive a LO +2 Extremespeed from Adamant Lucario, which this can revenge kill should you be running max Speed as well. The resistances of Grass/Fire aren't frequently used on the physical side, so it's less of a priority. It's still very defeatable, however - Adamant CB Dugtrio will OHKO with Stone Edge, and other Rock attacks will inflict heavy damage.
Special Attack: 116. A bit lower than Heatran or Moltres, but still plenty strong. Against Bliss...Sunny Day, Modest Life Orb Fire Blast does roughly 44-51% to 148/0 Bliss. So, in other words, you can beat Bliss with a bit of effort (aka SR or some other residual damage, or using Specs instead of LO), but otherwise you won't be able to, even with the Sunny Day boost. Otherwise, though, it's got sufficient power to deal a lot of damage when you combine Fire Blast, <grass move>, and Hidden Power Ice/Ground.
Special Defense: 97. The more useful of this Pokemon's defensive stats, since both Grass and Electric attacks are almost always special. Our Pokemon does well against most Electric, Grass, or other neutral Special attacks - against a 4/0 form of this Pokemon, 0 Sp atk Zapdos's Thunderbolt does 21-25% damage and Celebi's HP Fire does 17-20%, so it'll have plenty of Pokemon to safely switch in against. It also fares decently against special Electivire variants, taking less than 50% damage from Flamethrower. Blissey can't really do much either beyond status (148 sp atk Ice Beam does 22-25%). On the other hand, Togekiss (with no sp atk investment) is capable of 2HKOing with Air Slash, and stronger neutral hits will deal wear it down quickly.
Speed: 79 speed isn't too fast - you're not going to be competing against the likes of Infernape anytime soon, but with 0 speed investment you do beat quite a few walls to the punch. Interestingly enough, with max speed and a +speed nature, it reaches 280 - so this has the ability to revenge kill Adamant SD Lucario. It also puts our Pokemon slightly above Heatran. You still won't be winning a straight fight against it without a Ground type attack, but you can finish it off with some previous damage. Note that you're still slower than Togekiss and Gyarados with equal investment, which can counter some sets.
Also, inputting these stats into X-Act's formula for rating of a Pokemon returns 537 (was 528 before I boosted the stat total to 540 to comply with the poll results), which falls into the very good rating section. Unlike many other spreads here, though, this spread lets our Pokemon make some use of its Attack stat, which is a non-factor on most other spreads.
HP: 85 is a reasonable number. It falls well within the precedent left behind by most other Fire types, and gives solid durability when combined with both of our Pokemon's defenses. It's hard to really go into detail on how HP will be effective since it's completely reliant on Defense and Special Defense, so I'll delve into that in the respective sections of each stat.
Attack: 82 really isn't a perfect number for a straight physical sweeper, but it's not entirely unusable either. This Pokemon is meant to be more of a special attacker anyways, but given that Fire/Grass hits Super Effective on nearly every physical wall and the fact that our Pokemon will likely have access to several powerful physical options depending on design (Power Whip, Wood Hammer, and Flare Blitz are all potential moves, possibly boosting options like Swords Dance as well), 82 attack gives our Pokemon a fighting chance on the physical side.
Defense: 81. With a balanced defensive spread, 81 is a reasonable amount of defense to have. Combined with the HP, you barely survive a LO +2 Extremespeed from Adamant Lucario, which this can revenge kill should you be running max Speed as well. The resistances of Grass/Fire aren't frequently used on the physical side, so it's less of a priority. It's still very defeatable, however - Adamant CB Dugtrio will OHKO with Stone Edge, and other Rock attacks will inflict heavy damage.
Special Attack: 116. A bit lower than Heatran or Moltres, but still plenty strong. Against Bliss...Sunny Day, Modest Life Orb Fire Blast does roughly 44-51% to 148/0 Bliss. So, in other words, you can beat Bliss with a bit of effort (aka SR or some other residual damage, or using Specs instead of LO), but otherwise you won't be able to, even with the Sunny Day boost. Otherwise, though, it's got sufficient power to deal a lot of damage when you combine Fire Blast, <grass move>, and Hidden Power Ice/Ground.
Special Defense: 97. The more useful of this Pokemon's defensive stats, since both Grass and Electric attacks are almost always special. Our Pokemon does well against most Electric, Grass, or other neutral Special attacks - against a 4/0 form of this Pokemon, 0 Sp atk Zapdos's Thunderbolt does 21-25% damage and Celebi's HP Fire does 17-20%, so it'll have plenty of Pokemon to safely switch in against. It also fares decently against special Electivire variants, taking less than 50% damage from Flamethrower. Blissey can't really do much either beyond status (148 sp atk Ice Beam does 22-25%). On the other hand, Togekiss (with no sp atk investment) is capable of 2HKOing with Air Slash, and stronger neutral hits will deal wear it down quickly.
Speed: 79 speed isn't too fast - you're not going to be competing against the likes of Infernape anytime soon, but with 0 speed investment you do beat quite a few walls to the punch. Interestingly enough, with max speed and a +speed nature, it reaches 280 - so this has the ability to revenge kill Adamant SD Lucario. It also puts our Pokemon slightly above Heatran. You still won't be winning a straight fight against it without a Ground type attack, but you can finish it off with some previous damage. Note that you're still slower than Togekiss and Gyarados with equal investment, which can counter some sets.
Also, inputting these stats into X-Act's formula for rating of a Pokemon returns 537 (was 528 before I boosted the stat total to 540 to comply with the poll results), which falls into the very good rating section. Unlike many other spreads here, though, this spread lets our Pokemon make some use of its Attack stat, which is a non-factor on most other spreads.
Btw guys, it is currently 22-13 (approximately I only did a quick scan) in favor of the 536-545, so if you are going to post spreads, at least stay consistent with the number in the lead :/
So far I like my spread the most (obviously, lol), and Fishin's the second most, though he needs to bump that up to at least 536 :P.
I like Lil Ant's after that, as his spread reaches 517 at 527, and a minimal increase of 9 should increase it to around 538, which isn't terrible.
Still, I'm liking mine:
115 HP / 74 Atk / 102 Def / 106 SpA / 83 SpD / 60 Spe
And Fishin's:
85/82/80/117/93/78
Because they both reach don't cross the 530 limit for overall effectiveness of stats (528 for both), they stay consistent with not giving too much stat efficiency to those Pokemon with solid STABS.
My only gripe with Fishin's is the lack of uniqueness factor and the fact that in defensive bulk (on both sides), and special attacking it is Heatran-, with a 1 point advantage in Speed.
People would be forced to use this Pokemon's support options if they want it to do something that Heatran does not, and those are limited slightly average bulk in 85 HP / 80 Def / 93 SpD, though not too much. It does have higher overall defense than Spiritomb (by 9%), which is solid.
Yea, obviously I'm voting for mine since I believe it fulfills potential "roles" more efficiently (without being too overpowered at 528), but I definitely like Fishin's the second best.
So far I like my spread the most (obviously, lol), and Fishin's the second most, though he needs to bump that up to at least 536 :P.
I like Lil Ant's after that, as his spread reaches 517 at 527, and a minimal increase of 9 should increase it to around 538, which isn't terrible.
Still, I'm liking mine:
115 HP / 74 Atk / 102 Def / 106 SpA / 83 SpD / 60 Spe
And Fishin's:
85/82/80/117/93/78
Because they both reach don't cross the 530 limit for overall effectiveness of stats (528 for both), they stay consistent with not giving too much stat efficiency to those Pokemon with solid STABS.
My only gripe with Fishin's is the lack of uniqueness factor and the fact that in defensive bulk (on both sides), and special attacking it is Heatran-, with a 1 point advantage in Speed.
People would be forced to use this Pokemon's support options if they want it to do something that Heatran does not, and those are limited slightly average bulk in 85 HP / 80 Def / 93 SpD, though not too much. It does have higher overall defense than Spiritomb (by 9%), which is solid.
Yea, obviously I'm voting for mine since I believe it fulfills potential "roles" more efficiently (without being too overpowered at 528), but I definitely like Fishin's the second best.
Reposting this to get back into discussion, here ...
115 HP / 80 Attack / 95 Defense / 110 Sp.Atk / 70 Sp.Def / 75 Speed
BST = 545 Total
Very sturdy, easily able to take a lot of hits with 115 / 95 / 70 Defenses. That's some serious defense right there, man. A very viable physical wall, even, if that is how you want to play your game. Meanwhile, it has a high enough attack statistic to use the physical side, while it still has a threatening 110 Sp.Atk to coincide with what we decided. That design looks fairly medium speed, so 75 Speed should be fine, and let's it still out-run a lot of the lower-tiered speed racers. And, yet, it's still very balanced. If you treat it like a physical wall, that's what you'll get, and you won't have much offense from your 110 Sp.Atk, much like how Hippowdon doesn't have much attack even though it has a high attack statistic due to how we treat it.
115 HP / 80 Attack / 95 Defense / 110 Sp.Atk / 70 Sp.Def / 75 Speed
BST = 545 Total
Very sturdy, easily able to take a lot of hits with 115 / 95 / 70 Defenses. That's some serious defense right there, man. A very viable physical wall, even, if that is how you want to play your game. Meanwhile, it has a high enough attack statistic to use the physical side, while it still has a threatening 110 Sp.Atk to coincide with what we decided. That design looks fairly medium speed, so 75 Speed should be fine, and let's it still out-run a lot of the lower-tiered speed racers. And, yet, it's still very balanced. If you treat it like a physical wall, that's what you'll get, and you won't have much offense from your 110 Sp.Atk, much like how Hippowdon doesn't have much attack even though it has a high attack statistic due to how we treat it.
526-535
Elagune, I love the woodmanlizard, especially the flamethrower arms.
Elagune, I love the woodmanlizard, especially the flamethrower arms.
- Status