Other Metagames WindRoom Counter Weather Team

[TerrorthornColt]

Hello and thank you for taking a look at my team. To start off I'd like to say I'm honestly not sure how to tag this team with its correct tag because its for a tournament and it's basically VGC format: 4v4 Doubles, Level 50 cap. But Smogon Singles rules and ban list, no Item Clause, but there is a Sleep Clause.

I've gotten help way back when I first made this team so there are already a few changes to it to begin with so this isn't a rushly made team.

*New Changes made will be highlighted in Bold text.

Also the tournament is about 2 weeks away so any help at all is greatly appreciated.

Here's the team:

_________________________________,,,,,,,

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Ability: Sand Stream
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Protect

Tyranitar is here to basically set Sand up to remove others weather in some cases but my team is not relent on it. He's also there to bate in Fairy types like opposing Mega Gardevoir to hit them with a hard Iron Head. He's my main answer for Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame but has proven to be a reliable against some other Pokemon, mainly opposing Trick Room setters.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 124 HP/252 SpA/132 Speed
Ability: Flash Fire
- Lava Plume
- Ancient Power -> Earth Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Heatran is my main counter for Sun and Hail. With all the things that Heatran resist I thought he'd be great to set up Subs seeing as he causes a lot of switches. I went Lava Plume over Heat Wave as my team is weak on the physically defensive side as it helps fish for burns (I do risk burning my own Pokemon but I only have two physical attackers myself, if I burn my own Pokemon I keep from being paralyzed at the risk of losing some health per turn so I'll just need to avoid burning Tyranitar and Landorus-T specifically). I went Ancient Power to be able to take on Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y easier as I have other ways to go against opposing Heatrans being Ludicolo and Landorus-T.

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Nature: Modest
IVs: 31/30/31/30/30/30 -> 31/30/30/31/31/31
EVs: 188 HP/36 Def/80 SpA/80 SpD/120 Speed -> 244 HP/40 Def/36 SpA/80 SpD/116 Speed
Ability: Pressure
- Tailwind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power (Flying) -> Hidden Power (Ice)
- Roost -> Thunder Wave

My Tailwind setter and also my Breloom-Spore/Amoongus-Rage Powder counter. Zapdos is here to take on Bulky water types with Thunderbolt and most Fighting types with HP Flying. I went Roost to help preserve bulk and Safety Goggles to ignore Powder moves as well as not take damage from Sandstorm and opposing Hail if he is ever in those situations. Zapdos is there to help counter most rain teams, particularly the more bulky ones. He also deals a good chunk of damage on Mega Charizard Y and Abamasnow with Thunderbolt and HP Flying respectively.

Ludicolo @ Assault Vest -> Expert Belt
Nature: Modest
EVs: 148 HP/140 Def/68 SpA/4 SpD/148 Speed -> 148 HP/80 Def/134 SpA/148 Speed
Ability: Swift Swim
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Giga Drain -> Energy Ball
- Ice Beam

My primary partner to help set up with Fake Out but isn't out first all the time of course. He's there to put Rain teams at bay because with Swift Swim and Tailwind behind him his speed increases x4 almost guaranteeing him to go first. He can help take care of most opposing sand and sun teams as well with his water typing. He's also there to help take care of most Dragons and Landorus-Ts with Ice Beam. I went Assault Vest to help make him a little more bulkier and it has helped a lot. Scald also helps Heatran's Lava Plume fish for burns in order to make my team more defensively sound.

Landorus-T @ Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/244 Atk/4 Def/4 SpD/ 252 Speed
Ability: Intimidate
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide
- Rock Tomb

Landorus here is my primary counter for opposing sand teams but can play a major role against Sun teams. Earthquake is there for STAB and to deal a massive amount of damage. U-Turn is there to help get damage on the switch and to deal a good chunk of damage on opposing grass types like Ludicolo. I went with both Rock Slide and Rock Tomb as two of my other moves. Rock Slide is a very good overall move and Rock Tomb helps with lowering speed to help with Zapdos' Tailwind while also providing a single target Rock move so that way I can watch out for Wide Guard and won't have to worry about the difference in spread damage. He is my physical powerhouse.

Gardevoir-mega @ Gardevoirite
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/116 Def/116 SpA/4 SpD/20 Speed
Ability: Trace (Pixilate)
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Protect

My special powerhouse, Gardevoir is there to deal either a mass amount of damage or to help set up Trick Room on opposing Tailwind teams. I got the idea from one of the VGC Mega Gardevoir sets I've seen in the Archtypes coloums that's been posted by Smogon so it has a lot more bulk to handle some physical attacks. Getting pass opposing Substitutes it's a lot of help as well with Hyper Voice. Shes not the most key Mon on the team but behind Tailwind or any speed control she can wreck havoc.


Thank you for taking the time to look at my team. Any tips and change ideas are greatly appreciated. When responded I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you yet one more time. Hope you have a good day. :-)

 

[R-B-Y]

Hello and thank you for taking a look at my team. To start off I'd like to say I'm honestly not sure how to tag this team with its correct tag because its for a tournament and it's basically VGC format: 4v4 Doubles, Level 50 cap. But Smogon Singles rules and ban list, no Item Clause, but there is a Sleep Clause.

Also the tournament is about 2 weeks away so any help at all is greatly appreciated.

Here's the team:

_________________________________,,,,,,,

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SpD
Ability: Sand Stream
- Rock Slide
- Crunch
- Iron Head
- Protect

Tyranitar is here to basically set Sand up to remove others weather in some cases but my team is not relent on it. He's also there to bate in Fairy types like opposing Mega Gardevoir to hit them with a hard Iron Head. He's my main answer for Mega Charizard Y and Talonflame but has proven to be a reliable against some other Pokemon, mainly opposing Trick Room setters.

Heatran @ Leftovers
Nature: Modest
EVs: 124 HP/252 SpA/132 Speed
Ability: Flash Fire
- Lava Plume
- Ancient Power
- Substitute
- Protect

Heatran is my main counter for Sun and Hail. With all the things that Heatran resist I thought he'd be great to set up Subs seeing as he causes a lot of switches. I went Lava Plume over Heat Wave as my team is weak on the physically defensive side as it helps fish for burns (I do risk burning my own Pokemon but I only have two physical attackers myself, if I burn my own Pokemon I keep from being paralyzed at the risk of losing some health per turn so I'll just need to avoid burning Tyranitar and Landorus-T specifically). I went Ancient Power to be able to take on Talonflame and Mega Charizard Y easier as I have other ways to go against opposing Heatrans being Ludicolo and Landorus-T.

Zapdos @ Safety Goggles
Nature: Modest
EVs: 188 HP/36 Def/80 SpA/80 SpD/120 Speed
Ability: Pressure
- Tailwind
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power (Flying)
- Roost

My Tailwind setter and also my Breloom-Spore/Amoongus-Rage Powder counter. Zapdos is here to take on Bulky water types with Thunderbolt and most Fighting types with HP Flying. I went Roost to help preserve bulk and Safety Goggles to ignore Powder moves as well as not take damage from Sandstorm and opposing Hail if he is ever in those situations. Zapdos is there to help counter most rain teams, particularly the more bulky ones. He also deals a good chunk of damage on Mega Charizard Y and Abamasnow with Thunderbolt and HP Flying respectively.

Ludicolo @ Assault Vest
Nature: Modest
EVs: 148 HP/140 Def/68 SpA/4 SpD/148 Speed
Ability: Swift Swim
- Fake Out
- Scald
- Giga Drain
- Ice Beam

My primary partner to help set up with Fake Out but isn't out first all the time of course. He's there to put Rain teams at bay because with Swift Swim and Tailwind behind him his speed increases x4 almost guaranteeing him to go first. He can help take care of most opposing sand and sun teams as well with his water typing. He's also there to help take care of most Dragons and Landorus-Ts with Ice Beam. I went Assault Vest to help make him a little more bulkier and it has helped a lot. Scald also helps Heatran's Lava Plume fish for burns in order to make my team more defensively sound.

Landorus-T @ Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 4 HP/244 Atk/4 Def/4 SpD/ 252 Speed
Ability: Intimidate
- Earthquake
- U-Turn
- Rock Slide
- Rock Tomb

Landorus here is my primary counter for opposing sand teams but can play a major role against Sun teams. Earthquake is there for STAB and to deal a massive amount of damage. U-Turn is there to help get damage on the switch and to deal a good chunk of damage on opposing Grass types like Ludicolo. I went two Rock type moves primarily so I dont have to have the lowered spread damage on occasions and Rock Tomb helps with lowering speed to help with Zapdos' Tailwind. He is my physical powerhouse.

Gardevoir-mega @ Gardevoirite
Nature: Modest
EVs: 252 HP/116 Def/116 SpA/4 SpD/20 Speed
Ability: Trace (Pixilate)
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
- Protect

My special powerhouse, Gardevoir is there to deal either a mass amount of damage or to help set up Trick Room on opposing Tailwind teams. I got the idea from one of the VGC Mega Gardevoir sets I've seen in the Archtypes coloums that's been posted by Smogon so it has a lot more bulk to handle some physical attacks. Getting pass opposing Substitutes it's a lot of help as well with Hyper Voice. Shes not the most key Mon on the team but behind Tailwind or any speed control she can wreck havoc.


Thank you for taking the time to look at my team. Any tips and change ideas are greatly appreciated. When responded I'll get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you yet one more time. Hope you have a good day. :-)

Erm hey it's vgc 2016 now the rules are different you can have two legends on a team now

 

[TerrorthornColt]

Erm hey it's vgc 2016 now the rules are different you can have two legends on a team now

This is not for the actual VGC. Please read the beginning of the post. It's VGC styled format. 4v4 Doubles, lvl 50 cap with Smogon Singles rules and ban list so no Smogon Uber legends, No item clause, but there is a Sleep clause. This is why I wasn't sure what to actually tag this post as.

 

[Yellow Paint]

I believe we've met before? Anyhow, you're extraordinarily anti weather for a format where weather honestly doesn't seem too dominant. From a look at your banlist, it looks like the meta will be centered around steels, lando, diancie, with occasional full tr offense and some dragons spread throughout.

If you personally know that your opponents are bringing weather or something, just replace ludicolo with ferrothorn, and heatran/lando/ferro will stomp any weather matchup. Ferro is also an amazing wincon in a sideboard style meta, since you can simply choose not to bring it if your opponent has multiple fires.

Ferrothorn

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 204 Atk / 52 SpD
Brave Nature
- Gyro Ball
- Power Whip
- Leech Seed
- Protect

Aside from that, heatran should have heat wave/earth power/substitute/protect so that you can hit opposing heatran and freely spam fire attacks without hurting your teammates. Ancientpower is a bit excessive when you already have two competent rock users.

Zapdos should be hp ice, hp flying honestly doesn't do enough damage or have extra coverage to be justifiable. Hp ice lets you hit grounds and dragons, notably lando-t.

Lando should have superpower>rock tomb, rock tomb is pretty bad and becomes redundant next to rock slide.

You should look into a Keldeo check, as of now you're practically swept. The same applies to Diancie, actually. You should look into offensive thundurus or steel wing talonflame> zapdos. Thundy makes you lose out on twind and checks the two more reliably, talon has to sacrifice protect or flare blitz or twind for steel wing. However, talon is more suited for a tailroom mindset. Take your pick.

Hide

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Tailwind
- Steel Wing

Thundurus @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Thunder Wave/Taunt
- Protect

Good luck with your tour!

 

[TerrorthornColt]

It seems kinda hard to switch Ludicolo as it's Fake Out gives me a chance to set up. Something I know Ferro doesn't really allow. And yes we've met before. Actually you kinda helped me make this team into what it is now but that's when you thought it was basically VGC 2015 style. I just feel HP Flying is nice since it'll let me hit Fighting types which is something that gives my team trouble. I agree Keldeo is a problem but can it really take out either Zapdos or Ludicolo? I've not ran into one and to be honest I don't think I'll be running into one this year. Can Diance really take on a Tyranitar in the Sand just wondering. I mean Mega Gardevoir doesn't even get the OHKO with Hyper Voice with my Sand.

While I would agree I should have Earth Power on Heatran I don't think I should have Heat Wave, it's just not been that good for me and honestly lesser power with a higher chance to burn at the cost of potentially hitting a partner in my opinion is worth the risk. Rock Tomb is just used to help with Speed, overall I don't like how Superpower almost forces Landorus to switch, plus a single target Rock move is nice in case I can predict the opponents Wide Guard seeing if I may face the TopMoth combo that would give me fits.

I think I'll make the chance from Ancient Power to Earth Power. I need just need to know a way to get around Fighting types easier.

*EDIT* Did some damage calcs Zapdos, Ludicolo, and Mega Gardevoir handle 4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed Keldeo pretty well. Tyranitar in sand handles Diancie like it's nothing. Ludicolo also gives Diancie fits if I decide to not being my own sand. Landorus-T just seems to wreck it in and out of Sand because at best it takes just over 40% from Moonblast.

**EDIT** I also agree that changing HP Flying to HP Ice is better. But in order to get the values I want I need to change my EVs to 180 HP/40 Def/92 SpA/80 SpD/116 Speed. However I still feel having Zapdos will be better in the long run than having either Thundurus or Talonflame here. I just need to watch for Fighting types more by bringing Mega Gardevoir to those matchups.

So honestly I agree I do need to make the changes from Ancient Power to Earth Power, and HP Flying to HP Ice but everything else I feel works for what I'm doing as my team fairs pretty well with the said threats above after these small changes.

 

[Yellow Paint]

I only suggested ferrothorn because you mentioned counter weather in the title and weather as a threat in almost all of your descriptions. I thought you had some sort of foreknowledge that many people would be bringing weather teams or something. If you had made the change, you would've been free to swap out other mons and sets meant to counter weather.

yeah I was exaggerating a bit on keld and diancie sweeping individually, but you're definitely not winning against both. Not sure what you mean by calcs, diancie is a generally physical mon that can get very scary for you because it does heavy damage to garde, zap, tran, racks up def boosts, gets spdef from sand, and also happens to outslow your whole team except ttar under tr when nonmega. Keldeo is a threat because it has unresisted coverage vs you, can outspeed + ohko 3/6 mons, and can either taunt garde or quick guard on ludi's fake out.
220 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 180 HP / 40 Def Zapdos: 162-192 (86.1 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Mega Gardevoir: 90-106 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 95-113 (54.2 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(everything else you'd expect to ohko in fact ohkos)

What I'm basically saying is that since you have nothing that outspeeds these two, the above calcs are your best chances of tanking them, so you're left at the mercy of rolls/predicts and whether your opponent actually decides to lead the two instead of say jirachi+azu. You have no guaranteed answer in anything but turn one fake out+tr, so you'll have to rely on prediction to win.

68+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 102-122 (61.4 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68+ SpA Ludicolo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 92-110 (73.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alternatively, you could just use energy ball/hydro pump or life orb or expert belt ludicolo so you can properly tank and retaliate, just realized this is probably the most efficient and least invasive and option lol.

on lando, I wasn't suggesting superpower so much as suggesting not to use rock tomb. Rock tomb's poor damage output doesn't differentiate it enough from rock slide to justify using a slot. If you're really afraid of wide guard, just use stone edge, which also does neat things like ohko thundy and do heavy damage to togekiss and zapdos.

 

[TerrorthornColt]

I only suggested ferrothorn because you mentioned counter weather in the title and weather as a threat in almost all of your descriptions. I thought you had some sort of foreknowledge that many people would be bringing weather teams or something. If you had made the change, you would've been free to swap out other mons and sets meant to counter weather.

yeah I was exaggerating a bit on keld and diancie sweeping individually, but you're definitely not winning against both. Not sure what you mean by calcs, diancie is a generally physical mon that can get very scary for you because it does heavy damage to garde, zap, tran, racks up def boosts, gets spdef from sand, and also happens to outslow your whole team except ttar under tr when nonmega. Keldeo is a threat because it has unresisted coverage vs you, can outspeed + ohko 3/6 mons, and can either taunt garde or quick guard on ludi's fake out.
220 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 180 HP / 40 Def Zapdos: 162-192 (86.1 - 102.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Diancie Diamond Storm vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Mega Gardevoir: 90-106 (51.4 - 60.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 95-113 (54.2 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(everything else you'd expect to ohko in fact ohkos)

What I'm basically saying is that since you have nothing that outspeeds these two, the above calcs are your best chances of tanking them, so you're left at the mercy of rolls/predicts and whether your opponent actually decides to lead the two instead of say jirachi+azu. You have no guaranteed answer in anything but turn one fake out+tr, so you'll have to rely on prediction to win.

68+ SpA Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Keldeo: 102-122 (61.4 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
68+ SpA Ludicolo Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 92-110 (73.6 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Alternatively, you could just use energy ball/hydro pump or life orb or expert belt ludicolo so you can properly tank and retaliate, just realized this is probably the most efficient and least invasive and option lol.

on lando, I wasn't suggesting superpower so much as suggesting not to use rock tomb. Rock tomb's poor damage output doesn't differentiate it enough from rock slide to justify using a slot. If you're really afraid of wide guard, just use stone edge, which also does neat things like ohko thundy and do heavy damage to togekiss and zapdos.

What sets are you using for Keldeo and Mega Diance because I was mainly useing Showdowns Damage Calculator to see how I faired. I do agree if someone brings both then I'm in trouble but if that happens at only I feel maybe only one trainer will. I don't expect a lot. There will be a few people new to the double battle scene by my guess but I'm not underestimating anyone.

I've been thinking about Expert Belt Ludicolo to be honest. But I'm just not sure if it works with my EVs I have on Ludicolo. Also I didn't realize that Keldeo had Quick Guard, you learn something new everyday.

Not only that but I know I'm not going to beat every potential team with this. If someone goes Keldeo and Mega Diance. At best only Ludicolo is my best save there but even that's not a given. I just feel like there won't be many people that have both.

*EDIT* as for Rock Tomb my primary use for it is more as something that can help slow down opposing mons. But I'll look up some more on the Damage Calculator to see what Stone Edge gives me. See if I can actually net some OHKO on mons that are faster the Landorus-T that doesn't directly threaten it.

**EDIT** Well I looked at it and while Stone Edge nails some nice OHKO that neither Rock Tomb or Rock Slide doesn't it's far more situational then Rock Tomb. You see with Rock Tomb lowering speed I can get the drop on some unpredicted switches to work in my favor, for example if Thundurus is being switched in to avoid a Earthquake I can potentially go for a Rock Tomb in that spot instead and get the Thundurus slower then my Landorus allowing me to KO it next turn and avoid being KOd by Hidden Power Ice if my Wind isn't up. This also works on if some one who has Keldeo wants to try to switch it in on me at the wrong time, it gets punished by the Speed drop and becomes slower then Zapdos and Mega Gardevoir. This part is more about Utility than Power, it's just a plus that it avoids Wide Guard. As for Ludicolo I'll make the change to Expert Belt and Energy Ball as it add some much needed damage for Ludicolo to deal and with such I'm going to go for a more offensive set with 148 HP/80 Def/134 SpA/148 Speed EVs.

 

[TerrorthornColt]

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