Victim of the Week v2, Kyurem

[Halcyon.]

I really like Manibuzz right now. Like Alexander. said, it can check not only Latios, but also Landorus, taking pitiful damage from HP Ice and Focus Blast. The only problem with it is that you have to pair it with a spinner, since, with Stealth Rock, Landorus has about a 30% chance to 2HKO with Focus Blast. Same goes for Latios, who can 2HKO Manibuzz after Rocks with Specs Draco Meteor. Still a really cool Pokémon that not many people are prepared for. It has a small niche, but a niche nonetheless.

 

[victinivcreate1]

I sometimes use Bronzong as a Latios check because it potentially has resistance/immunity to its attacks. If it runs Levitate, it can also screw Lando-I.

Bronzong @ Leftovers
Sassy
Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/4 Atk/252 SpD
-HP Ice
-Gyro Ball
-Earthquake/Toxic
-Stealth Rock/Protect


252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 148-176 (43.78 - 52.07%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I like it and its pretty good for checking a multitude of special threats, actually more, because Jirachi can't handle Lando-Incarnate.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD Adamant @ Choice Band
~ U-turn
~ Bullet Punch
~ Superpower
~ Pursuit
Great check. Can switch into draco meteors and psyshocks and trap latios with pursuit. If you predict its going to stay in to attack you again just u-turn out and ohko it. Can also revenge kill weakened latios with bullet punch.

 

[Frochtejohgurt]

I'm always searching for reliable counters to Latios which also can fit on Stall teams, so I usually end up with Tyranitar or Jirachi.
Unforunately Mandibuzz is everything but a counter to Latios. Choice Specs Draco Meteor does up to 71.25%, so it has a chance to 2HKO even without Stealth Rocks as does Life Orb with Stealth Rocks. Since Stealth Rocks can't be kept off the field at all times and Choice Specs is the most common set, Mandibuzz will go down to Latios pretty much everytime. It's a shacky check at best.

 

[Fallacies]

Ferrothorn can switch into anything but Hidden Power Fire and wall it. You could also use Ferrothorn in rain to soften up it's fire weakness but it'll still be taking a lot of damage from it.

252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 139-168 (39.48 - 47.72%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

The good news for Ferrothorn is only a third of the Latios out there carry Hidden Power Fire since the speed reducing IV required is undesirable at his speed tier.

Latios Hidden Power Fire usage 34.441% (thanks TIBot!)

This is the standard set taken from it's analysis page.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
~ Spikes
~ Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
~ Power Whip

Edit: Forgot to mention Ferrothorn won't like switching in on a choice item trick. Oops! (Sorry first post, still a bit of a newbie)

 

[Shined0wn]

I'm always searching for reliable counters to Latios which also can fit on Stall teams, so I usually end up with Tyranitar or Jirachi.
Unforunately Mandibuzz is everything but a counter to Latios. Choice Specs Draco Meteor does up to 71.25%, so it has a chance to 2HKO even without Stealth Rocks as does Life Orb with Stealth Rocks. Since Stealth Rocks can't be kept off the field at all times and Choice Specs is the most common set, Mandibuzz will go down to Latios pretty much everytime. It's a shacky check at best.

Well dude, Tyranitar Cband (actually the most used atm) it's the best check of latios, and he takes 2hko of surf of latios w/o choice specs and SR/Spikes, Life Orb can take down it too. Choice Specs+Hazards DMeteor can take down it too.
And that guy (Mandibuzz) can stop it Landorus-i, in fact, it can wall some things of the actual metagame.

Ferrothorn can switch into anything but Hidden Power Fire and wall it. You could also use Ferrothorn in rain to soften up it's fire weakness but it'll still be taking a lot of damage from it.

252 SpA Expert Belt Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn in rain: 139-168 (39.48 - 47.72%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

The good news for Ferrothorn is only a third of the Latios out there carry Hidden Power Fire since the speed reducing IV required is undesirable at his speed tier.

Latios Hidden Power Fire usage 34.441% (thanks TIBot!)

This is the standard set taken from it's analysis page.

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
~ Spikes
~ Leech Seed / Stealth Rock
~ Gyro Ball / Protect / Thunder Wave
~ Power Whip

Edit: Forgot to mention Ferrothorn won't like switching in on a choice item trick. Oops! (Sorry first post, still a bit of a newbie)

Well Latios it's almost run with Surf over HP Fire, but you need to have it in Rain team, because if latios have HP Fire and its in SS team, he can 2hko it easily. Well what i mean is that it is very specific, but it can run perfectly against it in rain.

 

[Viktor24]

Chansey. One of the best Latios counters. Choice Specs Psyshock does 37%-43%. Worst scenario? 43.plus.43.plus.12.5(SR)=98.5 (my plus button doesn't work for some reason). still not a 2HKO.
Chansey@Eviolite
Trait: Natural Cure
Evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Toxic
- Wish
- Softboiled

 

[ganj4lF]

Specially Defensive Cresselia is probably the best defensive counter to Latios. Can take two (or more) Specs Draco Meteor, Psyshock, Shadow Ball, HP Fire, Surf, Ice Beam, you name it, and Ice Beam / Toxic back. In Sun it's almost impossible to take down, and if it carries Reflect even Pursuit trapping is not that effective (CB TTar Crunch can't even 2HKO reliably if Reflect is up). I used it quite a lot (thanks to Tobes's sun team, actually) and it's very effective even if the Physically Defensive version is more recognized and accepted (I guess...?); it's almost unbreakable with special attacks and actually checks many Rain teams without even resisting their moves since its special bulk is so ridiculous (and if Sun is up, well...it just won't go down). Back to Latios, the only meaningful thing it can do is Trick, but that's entirely up to prediction, only applies to Choiced versions, and is way less harmful to Cresselia than it is to Chansey or many other pokemon listed.

Cresselia @ Leftovers | Levitate
Calm | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Ice Beam
- Moonlight
- Toxic / Reflect
- HP Fire / Toxic / TWave / Psyshock / ...

(if anyone's concerned about Outrage, well, +2 LO Outrage cannot OHKO after SR, while +3 is not guaranteed to do so, without Reflect...)

 

[Prinz]

Extending the deadline for the discuss about Latios until Wednesday12th due to the DDosing thing. Post more idea people!

 

[Prinz]

So, the next victim is...​

Gyarados​

95 Hp / 125 Atk / 79 Def / 60 Satk / 100 Spd / 81 Spe
Ability: Intimidate, Moxie​

Gyarados is definitely one of the biggest threat in the OU tier. It has a good statistic of Attack, a really good bulk and Dragon Dance to boost its already high Attack. Plus, it can setup on many mons which are common nowadays like Landorus-I, Scizor, Keldeo, Jirachi without Electric moves, Mamoswine and so on. Also, it can run a Defensive set if needed, with Rest and Sleep Talk which uses Gyarados' good statistics of defense. How do you guys use to deal with Gyarados?​

 

[MikeDawg]

Rotom-W @ Leftovers | Levitate
Calm | 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp

Specially defensive rotom-w is probably the most applicable and solid check to gyarados. Life orb offensive gyara is only doing 56.1 - 66.33% with waterfall and 60.06 - 70.62% with bounce. While a 2hko, these are fantastic calcs considering this is +2 Life Orb gyarados. At the more reasonable +1, gyara is hard pressed to do much to rotom while a simple tbolt can take it out. This set is also effective against sub varients as tbolt prevents it from being stalled with volt switches. Rotom deals with bulkydos even better, and rest talk dos is still getting 1hkod easily without threatening rotom.

 

[Bulgrom]

Unecl dolan (Porygon2) @ Eviolite
Trait: Trace
EVs: 252 HP / 72 SDef / 184 Def
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Discharge/Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave/Toxic

Defensive Porygon2 can simply take everything that the mighty gyara throw at him easily thanks to his stupidly high bulk, recover the damage and then immediatly threaten him with an electric move, Thunderbolt being a OHKO after rocks while Discharge does the same on offensive variants and can paralyse him. Only offensive and CB Gyara can actually hope to kill him, but they need rocks and rain, and even with that, Porygon2 is still a excellent check. More defensive variants are totally helpless (unless you have like 3 layers of spikes rain and a DD boost).

 

[DarkBlazeR]

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Trait: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect

You can't really go wrong with Ferrothorn when it comes to picking a solid answer to Gyarados. This set in particular is almost impossible for most Gyarados to penetrate without a ton of luck. Even in rain, Ferrothorn can easily shrug off +0 and +1 Waterfalls, and thanks to Protect, is essentially immune to Bounce. Power Whip is a solid 2HKO on most Gyarados, and Leech Seed can be used to wear down the sets lacking Substitute or Taunt. Theoretically DDTaunt Gyarados with Bounce has a chance against this Ferrothorn, especially if it paralyses it, but the latter still wins the matchup the majority of the time.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Spd / 248 Def
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

First off I will admit this is a bit of a shakey counter, but it gets the job done most of the time. Against most versions of Gyarados, basically I spam Psychic which does a good chunk of damage each time and usually KOs it before Gyarados can KO Slowbro. Against Bulky Verions of Gyarados though, I may end up using Scald as they can take more Psychics than others and might be able to break through if they Dragon Dance enough, so I roll the dice and hope for a burn.

As I said, shakey counter, but it usually works.

 

[ganj4lF]

While I agree almost completely, it must be noted that some Ferrothorn sets could find themselves in a bad spot against SubDD Intimidate Gyarados. If Ferrothorn doesn't have Power Whip or Protect (if Gyarados is running Waterfall / EQ as attacks (uncommon but still) not having Power Whip suffices), it will be unable to break Gyarados's Substitutes, and will go down to Bounce / EQ after enough boosts. If Gyarados is paired with a WoW / Scald user, the thing becomes worse, since a burned Ferrothorn can't break Gyara's subs (even against 0/0 Gyarados it fails to do so most of the times). While those are not common cases, it's still good to remember that it's possible (and can screw you quite a bit, since after a couple of DDs Gyarados is not only killing Ferro but it's probably steamrolling the rest of your team, too).

Your set, however, is a complete nightmare for Gyarados, especially since Earthquake is so uncommon.

 

[BKC]

don't bother using tbolt on rotom-w just for sub dd gyara. if you've a forretress as a lot of teams with rotom-w do, just volt switch back and forth between the two and gyara's not beating you, especially if sand's up. also ferrothorn is the easiest pkmn ever to burn so if that happens then you're probably screwed unless you have physically defensive perish song politoed backing you up.

anyways...

MANgrowth (Tangrowth) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Leech Seed
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Ice]

tangrowth is a pretty nice gyara counter. it's sooo physically bulky it's ridiculous... iirc it takes like 50% from a +1 bounce. it can neuter gyara with any of the first 3 moves listed provided you use them intelligently. combined with smart switching to abuse regenerator and heal yourself up, you're usually good to go!

 

[Hemp Man]

Cradily (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Recover
- Toxic/Energy Ball
- Hidden Power [Rock]

The Support Cradily set from online, works really well. Even without investment, HP Rock can still break Gyarados subs. Cradily is immune to Waterfall, and can easily get in a free Return due to Bounce being a two-time move.

 

[Last Chance Breaker]

Well, Gary here is certainly a tricky customer to deal with, with it's raging destroying whole mountains an all. There are a few ways to make the steroid infused magikarp flop like a fish out of water, so I'll jump in shall I?

Basic Gyarados offensive set

Hide

Gyarados @ Lum Berry / Water Gem
Trait: Moxie
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang / Stone Edge
- Waterfall

Although seen as basic and obvious, it is actually quite decently hard to counter. After a D-Dance or two, it does indeed wreck. scarfterra with the correct Nature and EVs can comfortably OHKO with Stone edge, but struggles against Gyar at +2, and is very easily OHKOed itself by waterfall. As said above, other than stone edge, most Gyar find it very difficult to pass Rotom-W. A few Stone Edges though and Rotom won't enjoy it's company much longer. Celebi can wall Gyara should it lack Ice Fang. It can also easily Para it or cleanly grab a OHKO with leaf storm or set up with Nasty Plot. Scarf Gengar could also OHKO with Thunderbolt should Gyara already nab a boost. Should the Lum berry be used up, Toxic will kill of the Cod making it easier to revenge kill. Gastrodon loves waterfall, and can poison Gyara and recover it's health all day long until the fish dies. Lastly, if SR is up, simple phasing is effective in reducing what gyara can switch into.

Common Defensive set:

Hide

Gyarados @ Lum Berry
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SDef / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dragon Tail
- Waterfall

Although it is less threatening than the Sweeper set, it's a whole lot more annoying to face. By recovering it's health and status to the max, it can no longer be killed off with Toxic. Sleep shuffling is very effective for the Salmon, as little can stand to it. The best way to deal with it is to simple outspeed and OHKO before it can blow you away. One method is to toxic or hurt it a fair bit, to force it to rest up. Then you can get a free switch into something like scarfterra or Rotom-W for the OHKO. Subbing up is also a good way against Dragon Tail, but does nothing for the Roar alternative. Phasing yourself is a very good way to beat it should you be able to outspeed it's own. constant sleep resetting stops it gaining health back, and SR damage hurts it's survival chances quite a lot.

If I remember any more I'll add in. for now, that's it.

 

[Prinz]

So, the next victim is...​

Garchomp​

103 Hp / 130 Atk / 95 Def / 80 Satk / 85 Spd / 102 Spe
Ability: Sand Veil, Rough Skin​

Garchomp is for sure one of the biggest threat in OU, it has a big statistic of Attack a not bad statistic of Speed for the tier OU and has a good bulk as well which allows Garchomp to setup Sword Dance more easily. It's also one of the best Stealth Rock users available. So, how do you guys deal with this ground shark?​

 

[TGMD]

Garchomp is incredibly difficult to counter, simply because it's counters vary between each set. Skarmory and Bronzong are both immune to Earthquake and they resist Dragon, so they may seem like perfect answers, however Defensive sets are roasted by Fire Blast, and more Specially Defensive variants can't handle SD Aqua Tail (in rain) / Fire Fang. In the currently offensive metagame, finding a counter is made even more difficult because you have to find a Pokémon that can not only counter Garchomp, but keep up the team's momentum too. Because of this, I often find myself simply running a few checks to Garchomp, rather than full on counters.

I generally just run a few Pokémon that outspeed and KO it, a ground immunity, and a Pokémon that has the bulk / speed / priority to beat Salac / Choice Scarf variants (mostly Salac because the Choice Scarf set is beaten by forcing it into a move then revenging with something that lives said move). This may seem a little excessive to beat a single Pokémon, but it's highly likely these Pokémon will already be on your team without even thinking about Garchomp.

Here's a Pokémon I like to use for Garchomp:

Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Stone Edge / Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock

Landorus-T is easily one of the more common and better checks to Garchomp; it not only has high Defense, but a great ability in Intimidate too, allowing it to tank hits from Garchomp with relative ease. Landorus-T is also a good Ground immunity and beats Choice Scarf Garchomp variants. In addition, Landorus-T's a good offensive pivot, and has the Attack to 2HKO Garchomp, it's just an all-around great Pokémon. However, Landorus-T does need to watch out for Aqua Tail in the rain, as it can 2HKO, and it's much more difficult to revenge kill Garchomp when it's not locked into Outrage. Hidden Power [Ice] is useful for Garchomp, as well as other Pokémon such as opposing Landorus-T, but not necessary to beat Garchomp.

Calcs

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 111-132 (30.08 - 35.77%) -- 57.81% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

-1 252 Atk Garchomp Aqua Tail vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T in rain: 170-200 (46.07 - 54.2%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

64+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 178-211 (49.72 - 58.93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

0- SpA Landorus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 220-260 (61.45 - 72.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

But Landorus-T's very standard, how about a rarer Pokémon:

Weavile (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Pressure
252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Ice Shard
- Pursuit
- Low Kick
- Ice Punch

Weavile is a brilliant Garchomp revenge killer; not only does it outspeed and OHKO Garchomp with Ice Punch, but it also has Ice Shard for Choice Scarf variants. Weavile certainly won't be taking hits from Garchomp any time soon, but you'd be hard pressed to find a better way of revenge killing. Weavile has many other uses too, it's a great answer to other dragons, and it's an excellent Pursuit trapper.

Calcs

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 315-374 (87.98 - 104.46%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 629-749 (175.69 - 209.21%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Yache Berry Garchomp: 172-203 (48.04 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 343-406 (95.81 - 113.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Absolete]

I counter with this:

Cresselia @ Leftovers
248 HP/252 Def/8 SpD
Bold
~Ice Beam
~Trick Room
~Moonlight
~Psychic

Cresselia's legendary bulk allows her to switch in on Garchomp (Complete unharmed if Earthquake), set up Trick Room, and 2HKO with Ice Beam. Trick Room is then set up, a strong benefit for my team, as I run Trick Room teams exclusively. Trick Rooming aside, Cresselia has an easy switch in to Garchomp with levitate, the bulk to take his attacks, and access to the ever useful Ice Beam to take him down.

 

[dadoux]

Garchomp is hard to counter because pokemon like Landorus-T takes a bunch of damage from a Cb dragon claw and they ain't got any way of recovering.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
~ Slack Off
~ Earthquake
~ Stealth Rock / Whirlwind
~ Ice fang

Physically defensive Hippowdon is one of the best counters of garchomp imo, he can tank a CB / +2 Outrage and do a ton of damage in return with ice fang, and for the CB Dragon claw / switch thing, he can just heal up with slack off and come back in full form.

Skarmory @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet
224 HP / 252 Def / 32 SpD
-Brave Bird
-Roost
-Spikes
-Whirlwind

Under the rain, it's impossible for Garchomp to take out Skarmory, the only problem is the lack of damage that Skarmory can do in return, but he resist to both Garchomp's stabb, if it's a rare Garchomp Rough skin+ Rocky helmet SD, it can be kinda hard for Skarmory to take out, since getting 3 different recoil damage can hurt him really quickly, but he can just phaze him out to avoid this problem.

 

[Prinz]

pretty cool set for now, good job everyone. i think that you guys already posted every good counter of garchomp, xD. anyways, the great mighty doom has already posted a revenge-killer of garchomp so i should add other revenge-killers as well i guess. mons like lati twins, keldeo, choice scarf jirachi (even if yache berry chomp is quite common nowadays) choice scarf salamence and choice scarf kyurem-b are the best revenge-killer available (weavile is really good too) for any non-choice scarf garchomp if we're speaking about kyurem-b, jirachi and salamence, for every set of chomp if we're speaking about lati twins (even terrakion, especially the choice scarf variants, is a good revenge-killer of chomp but it must be already weakened though, the same thing goes for scizor [but it's choice bander it's better against chomp] ). also, speaking about checks, if you need an emergency switch into garchomp things like ferrothorn, forretress and jirachi are not very bad but you should play carefully since ferrothorn and forretress don't like fire blast and jirachi doesn't like earthquake (and fire blast too) so you should switch they in only if you're sure to do it into a outrage (even heatran with hp ice @ air ballon is a good check for chomper though).

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Spd / 248 Def
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
- Slack Off

I just wanted to say that the Slowbro I posted before is a solid counter for Garchomp, the only issue it has is Yache-SD-Garchomp, which can SD twice and threaten to 1HKO with Earthquake, or flat out 2HKO with Outrage at +2. Band-Chomp isn't that hard to deal with if you have a steel resist handy.

 

[Prinz]

I just wanted to say that the Slowbro I posted before is a solid counter for Garchomp, the only issue it has is Yache-SD-Garchomp, which can SD twice and threaten to 1HKO with Earthquake, or flat out 2HKO with Outrage at +2. Band-Chomp isn't that hard to deal with if you have a steel resist handy.

yeah, slowbro is a good counter of garchomp, just be sure it doesn't run yache berry and sword dance. another great check is gliscor i guess, it only fears aqua tail in rain after a sword dance (+2 outrage still hits hard though) and it can ice fang or toxic stall the sand shark. for sure there is better checks around (landorus-t, skarmory and cresselia for example) but it isn't bad at all.