Thread's dead for a while, and meta's moving around. Here are some tentative changes I propose for the next edit, but I want some opinions:
(and ye I'm kinda in charge of this now)
- Creation of A- rank ofc
- Gyarados into B+ agree
- Lilligant into B its kinda niche mon that requires specific teambuilding, but its viable for sure. I think that B- is better for it when it becomes a thing
- Oranguru into B agree
- Raichu-A to B agree
- Eevee into Z because it deserves its own tier yea, its kinda hard to rank anyways
Drops:
Gastrodon: A -> B+ yea, not to mention that it cannot even protect its partner from Fini's most common water move, muddy water. Bulky set with stockpile, toxic etc. is not that great anymore because of how common Kartana is atm
Gengar: A -> B (still a potent mon imo, but it's really hard to fit onto a team rn) agree
Milotic: A -> B+ agree, probably should drop even further, Milotic just isnt as good as it used to be
Vikavolt: A -> A- (possibly B+) B+ imo, its good but A-rank is too high
Ninetales: A -> A- (unsure) A is fine tbh, Ninetales is very cool (no pun intended), although i dont mind if it drops to A-.
Krookodile: A -> A- agree
Gigalith: A -> A- agree
Salamence: B+ -> B agree
There may be some B tier mons worth moving down, but I'm not focused on that rn. B- will be made at some point.
Raises:
Snorlax: B+ -> A- agree, snorlax is good rn
Nihilego: B -> A- agree
Pheromosa: B -> B+ unsure, i would keep in B but then again it counters quite a lot of meta aswell as its fastest unboosted mon but has quite a few flaws
Vanilluxe: C -> B agree
I don't really agree with the S-rank comment. I think Arcanine, Garchomp, and Porygon2 are really good Pokemon, but I don't know why you think they are S-rank / so ubiquitous that they deserve that rank. Arcanine while useful at shuffling intimidate suffers from an inability to combine offensive sets with defensive sets and being not all that threatening. In the Tapu Fini meta (or Araquanid, other Garchomp, or what have you) it does do a lot of stuff, but isn't to the point where it's dominating. It's extremely easily splashable, but it's not a god--I've never brought it to an event, for example. Garchomp is similarly not that good at all, I don't even personally think it's an A+ mon. P2 is also very splashable but not intensely amazing. I'm not justifying this well, but that's because all of the Pokemon ARE REALLY GOOD...just I don't see S-rank at all. There's too many viable Pokemon, too many Pokemon that compete with these for slots (direct comparisons being Marowak to Arcanine, Krookodile to Garchomp, and Snorlax to Porygon2) and you don't need them to feel like you have a team that can win an event.Yeah I feel like this could use a massive overhaul. First of all, I think there are very easily defined "S-rank" Pokemon in the meta, those being Arcanine, Garchomp, and Porygon2. The first two are the most common Pokemon in the current meta, while also being versatile. Arcanine can run bulky support or Offensive builds, Chomp can run Tectonic Rage, AV, Scarf, and Sash. Porygon2 is good on pretty much any team, whether it is for TR or simply for how bulky it is and how it can actually reverse opposing TR.
Other shifts in the meta, such as Ninetales and Nihilego raising in usage, Snorlax and Vikavolt being seen more, and others, should be reflected in the rankings. We also, as Jibaku said, should probably include an Eevee rank just because it's something you need to be aware of, but the singular mons themselves aren't viable, the team is.
This is how I would arrange it.
S
A+
A
A-
B+
B
C
D
Eevee Pass Rank
I largely agree with everything you said, I think we just see the makings of an S rank mon differently. I don't think S rank has to be necessary on a team for it to be effective, I just consider those three Pokemon I mentioned better than the ones in A+ but honestly they don't have to be S rank.I don't really agree with the S-rank comment. I think Arcanine, Garchomp, and Porygon2 are really good Pokemon, but I don't know why you think they are S-rank / so ubiquitous that they deserve that rank. Arcanine while useful at shuffling intimidate suffers from an inability to combine offensive sets with defensive sets and being not all that threatening. In the Tapu Fini meta (or Araquanid, other Garchomp, or what have you) it does do a lot of stuff, but isn't to the point where it's dominating. It's extremely easily splashable, but it's not a god--I've never brought it to an event, for example. Garchomp is similarly not that good at all, I don't even personally think it's an A+ mon. P2 is also very splashable but not intensely amazing. I'm not justifying this well, but that's because all of the Pokemon ARE REALLY GOOD...just I don't see S-rank at all. There's too many viable Pokemon, too many Pokemon that compete with these for slots (direct comparisons being Marowak to Arcanine, Krookodile to Garchomp, and Snorlax to Porygon2) and you don't need them to feel like you have a team that can win an event.
Hold on, are you saying that we can use mons from ORAS, as long as they are part of Alola dex? I mean, Bounce is tutor-only move for Gyara, and there is no legitimate way to get Bounce on Gyarados that is bred/caught in Gen VII. (its not egg move unless im mistaken)Gyarados: Will consider moving it to A when it gets Bounce next week (SUPERSONIC SKYSTRIKE!). Not so much rn though.
No, there's an incoming Gen 7 event featuring a Bounce Magikarp. This is the only VGC 2017 legal Magikarp with Bounce and what's being talked about, if it wasn't clear.Hold on, are you saying that we can use mons from ORAS, as long as they are part of Alola dex? I mean, Bounce is tutor-only move for Gyara, and there is no legitimate way to get Bounce on Gyarados that is bred/caught in Gen VII. (its not egg move unless im mistaken)
This would mean we would get some quite a few nice new tools, such as Icy Wind Milotic and Earth Power Gastrodon.
oooooohhh, i forgot about thatNo, there's an incoming Gen 7 event featuring a Bounce Magikarp. This is the only VGC 2017 legal Magikarp with Bounce and what's being talked about, if it wasn't clear.
I disagree with this, any Pokémon running a grass type move (Goodra, TAPU BULU, Celesteela, etc.) can utterly obliterate Gastrodon, I think it should stay where it is, because as the meta changes, (I don't know about anyone else, but I am seeing more of Bulu lately) Gastrodon will continue to have a harder time.I'd suggest Gastrodon to be higher than that. I think it deserves an A.
4x to grass may sound horrible on paper, but in reality, very few viable Pokemon have access to strong enough grass moves.
Practically, with usage of Lilligant being dropped due to decline of Sun teams, Kartana is the only viable Pokemon left that counters Gastrodon.