Resource USUM NU Viability Rankings (Old)

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Claydol UR -> C
Extremely tanky, it tanks supers pretty well, sometimes even getting 3HKOd is one of the best dual screeners, is a much better rocker+spinner than sandslash and outspeeds incineroar (which can catch low HP roars off guard)
Auroros UR -> C
I'm seeing hail a lot lately (like, literally half my games in the last 2 days), and this guy is always present as the lead, and although it has several crippling weaknesses it can run focus sash to ensure rocks or just run icy rock, lead and switch out if you go out against one of it's many weaknesses
 

poh

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Claydol UR -> C
Extremely tanky, it tanks supers pretty well, sometimes even getting 3HKOd is one of the best dual screeners, is a much better rocker+spinner than sandslash and outspeeds incineroar (which can catch low HP roars off guard)
Auroros UR -> C
I'm seeing hail a lot lately (like, literally half my games in the last 2 days), and this guy is always present as the lead, and although it has several crippling weaknesses it can run focus sash to ensure rocks or just run icy rock, lead and switch out if you go out against one of it's many weaknesses
I don't see any reason to use Claydol in the current meta. As a rocker and screener it's completely outclassed by Uxie and it isn't a great spinner either since it loses to all the spinblockers. It has a horrible defensive typing and is incredibly passive. Spinners like Alolan Sandslash and Blastoise offer much more to a team in terms of utility, I don't see a good enough reason to rank Claydol.

Aurorus used to be ranked cause of Aurora Veil but since that got banned it had like 0 usage ever since and even got unranked almost 2 months ago. While yes it can bypass Xatu and beats most other rockers, there are far better leads like Omastar and Lycanroc. Dedicated leads are imo a wasted slot anyway since the tier has plenty of splashable and viable hazard removers. Vanilluxe outclasses it offensively aswell. I see little reason to rank it again.
 
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a--->a-/b+
klinklang is rly in a pretty bad spot rn. with pokemon such as roar, pass, lix and roar being top usage mons, he rly struggles to sweep when its checks are so omnipresent, is far too reliant on its z move to break past too many pokemon, and i dont consider it anywhere near consistent enough to be ranked above top threats like rhydon and sceptile.

a- ---> a
i think brav is great rn. huge threats like decid, sceptile and to an extent dhelmise can simply be neutured by this mon, it punishes steelvally greatly and means it cant freely defog/parting shot,, if u play aggresively roar can be free +1 atk, offensive bu can be crazy threatening and can be a huge pain to deal with while still providing good defensive synergy, sub bu has even greater defensive use and can def sweep vs teams lategame, i think scarf is a solid option, and while its not as good as its other sets, its fairy reliable and def does the job. so ye, v solid mon which is only getting better with drops of the ghost grasses, as well as high usage of things like steelvally and plume.

b- ---> b
gallade is a very solid and slept on mon rn. with the departure of toxicroak, it is the only sd fighting left, as well as probably the 2nd best fighting breaker after medi. sd lo w stabs leaf blade can run through defensive teams so well, and it can break past bro and palo far more consistently than medi, and the major issue is xatu, which can simply be trapped with dread plate sneasel. overall v cool mon and should rise
 

Vikavolt
B => B+ at least
It's honestly somewhat of a crime that Vikavolt is this low on the VR with a bunch of niche mons considering it quite literally beats every common defensive backbone one can think of and the defensive utility it holds. Brolix? DiancieVaporeon? Even its best common "check" in Figy Incineroar will take 30% from volt switch because you're most likely running speed and they have to be sassy for fire blast. The defensive utility is huge as it can come in on every single Dhelmise, Steelix, non-stone edge Hariyama, and non-rock slide Passiman attacks (all mons which are high on VR atm) and acts as a Klinklang check because return/frustration is becoming much less the norm. Not to mention, this is able to beat every common rocker except for Miltank and Probopass which it can volt switch on anyway.
Vikavolt-Totem @ Buginium Z
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 72 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Bug Buzz
- Volt Switch
- Energy Ball
- Roost

Always Totem because Steelix heavy slam. Z Bug Buzz is pretty much a free kill on every team that doesn't have a x4 bug resist. The Z crystal helps immensely to reduce Knock off damage, a move that you're going to be switching in A LOT whether it'd be Passiman, Dhelmise, Hariyama, etc. Everything that doesn't instantly gets melted by Z Bug Buzz gets Volt switched on and the momentum gain most of the time is worth over the power of thunderbolt. Energy Ball is pretty cool and important to score a good chance to OHKO on Rhydon, 2HKO on standard Diancie, and something that more reliably kills Palossand. Speed is to creep Vaporeon but the lowest I can see you lowering it is Sassy Incineroar levels. Roost is a staple to keep the bug alive to destroy defensive cores and it's incredibly easy to force switches.

Offensive Calcs:
252+ SpA Vikavolt-Totem Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Rhydon: 396-468 (95.6 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Vikavolt-Totem Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 166-196 (54.6 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Vikavolt-Totem Savage Spin-Out (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 542-642 (137.5 - 162.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Defensive Calcs:
252+ Atk Steelix Heavy Slam (60 BP) vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt-Totem: 44-52 (14 - 16.6%) -- possible 7HKO
252 Atk Passimian Knock Off vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt-Totem: 73-87 (23.3 - 27.7%) -- 80.9% chance to 4HKO
252+ Atk Hariyama Knock Off vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt-Totem: 80-95 (25.5 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Dhelmise Knock Off vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt-Totem: 128-151 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Klinklang Gigavolt Havoc (175 BP) vs. 72 HP / 4 Def Vikavolt-Totem: 142-167 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO

Absol
B- => B
Another incredibly great balance breaker that deserves more recognition in the current meta. I think that the best set right now is just plain 4 attacks LO (Knock Off, Sucker Punch, Iron Tail, Superpower) because the only matchup you'll get an SD on is stall which plays unaware mons anyway and all 4 of these moves are a necessity atm. Iron tail ,while more like iron whiff sometimes, the power to OHKO Diancie, Comfey and Whimsicott on the switch, and Aromatisse all while also doing more to Mega Audino is incredibly important. An underrated quality of a balance breaker is to resist Pursuit which many other mons while able to crack your run of the mill balance often pack a Sneasel (and the rising Skuntank for stall) as a catch-all. Not only that, it hits a notable speed tier being able to outpace Decidueye and Incineroar being able to outright OHKO both from full. Stall's only switch in really is the unaware mon which you'll remove lefties from and do like 50%~ enabling the rest of your team to easily chip them down. It is NOT a deadweight versus faster teams as well either as Sucker Punch literally kills Heliolisk from full and doing upwards of 80ish% to mons like Medicham and Aerodactyl.
 

Snou

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from A to A+
Rotom is probably the best Scarf Mon together with Passimian. It can basically outspeed most of the tier with ease and serve as a powerful revenge killer. But this isn't the only thing Rotom is able to do, of course. It can be used with a lot of different sets in order to fulfill different roles. Its Hex/Will-O-Wisp is still a supergood set especially if supported with hazards, and it's able to tear whole teams apart. Being Pursuitable is ofc not a good thing, but you can still use the monouse Colbur Berry if you want to have the chance to escape. Defog is also a huge addition Rotom can boast of. Its ability Levitate makes it immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and its type is only normally effected by Stealth Rocks. Offensively, its typing is not easy to handle and the access to Volt Switch allows him to guarantee momentum for the other mates. It could even sun some subsplit set and still result effective. Its without any kind of doubt the best ghost mon in the tier, together with Decidueye.
 

from A to A+
Rotom is probably the best Scarf Mon together with Passimian. It can basically outspeed most of the tier with ease and serve as a powerful revenge killer. But this isn't the only thing Rotom is able to do, of course. It can be used with a lot of different sets in order to fulfill different roles. Its Hex/Will-O-Wisp is still a supergood set especially if supported with hazards, and it's able to tear whole teams apart. Being Pursuitable is ofc not a good thing, but you can still use the monouse Colbur Berry if you want to have the chance to escape. Defog is also a huge addition Rotom can boast of. Its ability Levitate makes it immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and its type is only normally effected by Stealth Rocks. Offensively, its typing is not easy to handle and the access to Volt Switch allows him to guarantee momentum for the other mates. It could even sun some subsplit set and still result effective. Its without any kind of doubt the best ghost mon in the tier, together with Decidueye.
I actually disagree. First of all about best ghost type in the tier, ever faced a banded dhelmise? Rotom is a nice scarfer AND a good defogger, which is why A rank is a great place for it. Being pursuit weak in the current meta is quite bad, considering a lot of people are running ghosts, and therefore people run pursuit. Besides, rotom's only form of recovery is pain split, which isn't very much used because you miss out on something important on the hex set (you would have to go with shadow ball > hex and pain split > will-o, which makes rotom hit much less hard, and the threat of wisp is gone. Besides these points, incineroar, which is one of the most used mons in the tier, has quite a free switchin to defog rotom (and even scarf rotom, only really fearing trick if the incineroar is not Z-move).

Now again, rotom is still a very good mon to use in the tier, but I don't think it warrants a rise. (A good thing it has going for it is outspeeding scarf ape, but it hits way less hard sadly)
 
Hello. It has been like 2 years since I made my last nomination ( Probopass ). About time.
Here are some calculations:

S rank:
Vullaby vs. Slowbro: toxic roost gg ez
4 SpA Incineroar Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 69-82 (20.1 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO // (?)

A rank:
252 Atk Decidueye Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Vullaby: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO // TICKLED etc
the other ghost grass only 2hkos with CB Heavy Slam, l2predict
252 SpA Life Orb Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 92-109 (26.8 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO // BEST IT CAN DO
252 SpA Life Orb Heliolisk Volt Switch vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Vullaby: 166-198 (48.3 - 57.7%) -- 92.2% chance to 2HKO // ROOST LIKE GROCERIES

Also: Xatu, Slowking, Guzzlord etc. Palossand too!

B rank :
Houndoom, Druddigon, Vaporeon... Too many to name really.

Thank u for reading, Vullaby for ranked :)
 

from A to A+
Rotom is probably the best Scarf Mon together with Passimian. It can basically outspeed most of the tier with ease and serve as a powerful revenge killer. But this isn't the only thing Rotom is able to do, of course. It can be used with a lot of different sets in order to fulfill different roles. Its Hex/Will-O-Wisp is still a supergood set especially if supported with hazards, and it's able to tear whole teams apart. Being Pursuitable is ofc not a good thing, but you can still use the monouse Colbur Berry if you want to have the chance to escape. Defog is also a huge addition Rotom can boast of. Its ability Levitate makes it immune to Spikes and Toxic Spikes, and its type is only normally effected by Stealth Rocks. Offensively, its typing is not easy to handle and the access to Volt Switch allows him to guarantee momentum for the other mates. It could even sun some subsplit set and still result effective. Its without any kind of doubt the best ghost mon in the tier, together with Decidueye.
I disagree
I used rotom for a while, and thought "why the hell would i ever use Heliolisk?"
Then i tried Heliolisk
I now am "why the hell would i ever use Rotom?"
Rotom is definitely a good mon, but i think Helio deserves the rise more, it's coverage and damage are a lot higher, alongside dry skin
Now, rotom occupies many more niches (blitzingly fast, trick lock, ghost type, levitate, defog) but as an electric type i think heliolisk is a much stronger pivot who puts up a lot more pressure and is more unpredictable
 
A- ---> A+
Sceptile sits in a good place right now in the current metagame having a nice advantage against common balance teams that rely on Silvally-Steel, Guzzlord or Incineroar for grass resists since it has the coverage to break down all of these said targets. It only needs Stealth Rocks up to beat Golbat when they switch in so Sceptile works really well. IMO Life Orb is the best set right now to take advantage of metagame trends but it still has enough power to break through most teams. It outspeeds almost every relevant pokemon outside of Scarf Passiman, Accelgor and Aero but between giga drain and leaf storm it's usually going to pressure your opposing teams but also being able to stick around for the entire match.

B ---> C+
Togedemaru is an awkward pokemon. For the most part it does a pretty bad job with its defensive wish set being with its below average bulk meaning neutral targets can just break through or the fact most other offensive pokemon have the coverage to break through like Sceptile, Accelgor and Heliolisk having Focus Blast while Vanilluxe and Comfey use Hidden Powers. I will give it that it switches into Vikavolt which is really handy but I still don't feel it does enough in a match. Sucks it can't support its teammates well with tiny wishes.

C+ ---> Unrank
I think Tangela should go unranked because it doesn't a clear niche be whatever set you're going to use. A pure grass type like this doesn't exactly do it any favours in a defensive or offensive aspect and it can't really abuse its high defense ontop of being reliant on eviolite. If you go through from S rank down to A-, you'll see it just has very bad matchups most of the time which makes me question why I should use this over something like Vileplume.

C- ---> Unrank
Not much to say, but the only niche it has is fake out but anybody will see this coming and switch to the numerous bulky Pokemon NU has; Steelix, Slowbro, Diancie, Rhydon, Miltank, Palossand, Silvally, Vaporeon and Ferroseed and outside of fake out it's largely outclassed by Cinccino's better coverage moves which makes that harder to switch into. Send to the shadow realm please.
 
nu viability rankings update | august 24th, 2018

hey, filling in for shiloh currently - spreadsheet including changes found below

here's a summary of rises and drops:

rises
Code:
braviary a- -> a
golbat c+ -> b-
samurott b- -> b
dhelmise b+ -> a
weezing c- -> c
clawitzer c- -> c+
comfey b+ -> a-
kingler ur -> c-
haunter c+ -> b-
magmortar b -> b+
rhydon a- -> a
froslass c- -> c+
heliolisk a -> a+
accelgor c+ -> b-
gallade b- -> b
vikavolt b -> b+
absol b- -> b
drops
Code:
mega audino a -> a-
togedemaru b -> c+
sigilyph b+ -> b
palossand a- -> b+
malamar b -> b-
skuntank c -> ur
silvally-steel b -> b-
aerodactyl b- -> c+
type: null b+ -> b
quagsire b- -> c
ferroseed b+ -> b
decidueye a+ -> a
scrafty b+ -> b
ambipom c- -> d
gourgeist-xl c -> ur
uxie c+ -> c
jellicent c+ -> c
tangela c+ -> ur
pinsir wasn't included in the sheet but will be added to c- for the time being after discussion among vr members, new slate will begin with Realistic Water's nominations

discussion points
  • anything you want!
 

Rabia

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nu viability rankings update | august 24th, 2018

hey, filling in for shiloh currently - spreadsheet including changes found below

here's a summary of rises and drops:

rises
Code:
braviary a- -> a
golbat c+ -> b-
samurott b- -> b
dhelmise b+ -> a
weezing c- -> c
clawitzer c- -> c+
comfey b+ -> a-
kingler ur -> c-
haunter c+ -> b-
magmortar b -> b+
rhydon a- -> a
froslass c- -> c+
heliolisk a -> a+
accelgor c+ -> b-
gallade b- -> b
vikavolt b -> b+
absol b- -> b
drops
Code:
mega audino a -> a-
togedemaru b -> c+
sigilyph b+ -> b
palossand a- -> b+
malamar b -> b-
skuntank c -> ur
silvally-steel b -> b-
aerodactyl b- -> c+
type: null b+ -> b
quagsire b- -> c
ferroseed b+ -> b
decidueye a+ -> a
scrafty b+ -> b
ambipom c- -> d
gourgeist-xl c -> ur
uxie c+ -> c
jellicent c+ -> c
tangela c+ -> ur
pinsir wasn't included in the sheet but will be added to c- for the time being after discussion among vr members, new slate will begin with Realistic Water's nominations

discussion points
  • anything you want!
just looking at the voting slate, shouldn't weezing have gone up to C+ with 7/11 votes supporting that or higher? correct me if I'm wrong ofc

anyhow here are some nom(s) so this isn't a shitty one-liner:

rises
A -> A+
It literally hits the entire tier for a 2HKO. Name your switch-in. It dies. While Dhelmise can struggle some against more offensive teams because of its really poor Speed tier, it more than makes up for it with key resistance to Water and Ground as well as overall solid bulk, letting it just come in on a myriad of Pokemon like Slowbro, Steelix, and Rhydon. Passimian being one of its best teammates further helps it, as Passimian can get Dhelmise in on bulky Water-types pretty easily because of how it attracts them like a damn magnet.

B+ -> A-
I finally feel comfortable making this nomination. While Vaporeon is rather one-dimensional in what it does (don't use Z-Celebrate), it's the most splashable Wish user in the tier and can compress Heal Bell into its moveslots if it must, although the combination of Wish + Toxic + Protect is what really sells this Pokemon. Just through its sheer bulk it can check so many threatening Pokemon: Incineroar, Passimian, Sneasel, Guzzlord, etc. I could list off more Pokemon of course, but that's too exhaustive and I think the point is clear. Vaporeon provides immense team support through checking many wallbreakers the tier has. While it doesn't have broken Regenerator like the Slowbrothers do, it's arguably a better blanket check to many things in the tier compared to Slowbro, and it provides just as much team support as Slowking. I also personally believe it to be underrated; Toxicroak being gone has just made this Pokemon so damn good, and while it's Heliolisk and Decidueye bait to some extent, that doesn't stop it from providing fat Wishes and using Toxic on whatever it wants to.

drops
A-> A-
Incineroar, Slowbro, Steelix, Passimian, and Rotom are literally Pokemon that exist and make it very hard for Klinklang to do its job. While I won't deny that you can fairly easily weaken 4/5 of those, the prominence Klinklang's checks have in the tier convinces me it's just not worthy of such a high ranking; it offers little outside of its obvious role as a Shift Gear sweeper, and while that isn't necessarily a bad thing, it does mean it will struggle to deal with its checks and counters more if there isn't innovation being done to circumvent them (or if any innovation CAN be done).

C- -> shadow realm
can you please tell me the last time this was seen. if you want to argue that it has literally the tiniest niche ever in being a rain sweeper then that's true, and I won't debate that, but this has next to no usage even on the ladder let alone in tournaments, and rain isn't exactly a playstyle lighting it up right now.

EDIT: it would appear people love ludicolo. will keep nom here because others may share this viewpoint, but after hearing what others have to say I am now of the opinion ludi is not unusable and deserves a rank more than ambipom deserves to be on the vr at all.

and one meme:
S -> S++
it's better than anything else in the tier by a large margin and no one can convince me otherwise. slowbro isn't S-rank worthy. that is all.
 
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I'm not an NU player, but I do like to read discussions here. With that said, why the hell did Steelvally DROP? From what I've seen, this is the exact OPPOSITE of what the playerbase wants, everyone I've seen in this thread has been screaming for it to rise to b+ or maybe even the a ranks for months now, and I have seen nothing recently that could change this, the meta is fine for it and nobody nommed it down. Is there something I'm missing here?
 

etern

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NU Leader
Silvally dropped because it's extremely easy to chip thanks to a lack of recovery (thus making it a shaky and temporary check to things its supposed to be stopping), struggles versus almost every rocker in a 1v1 situation, fits on very specific builds which aren't as effective in the current meta, has issues with passivity, and in general requires a ton of support for average upside.

Silvally-Steel is now blacklisted due to the fact that it has been rejected for a rise by the VR Council countless times and all discussion surrounding it has become extremely circular and redundant. Any further posts on it will be deleted. Please continue discussing other nomintions.
 

A --> A+
Rhydon has taken the meta by storm lately, and its no wonder why. With a meta filled with things like Incinceroar, Braviary, and Passimian, Rhydon finds itself in a unique point to be a card counter to the first two while offering teams a nice middle ground against Passimian. Less Klinklang is also a huge boon for it as you don't have to dedicate a Klinklang answer in your rocker slot.




A+ --> A

This meta with less Klinklang is taking its toll on Steelix. Rhydon and Diancie have replaced Steelix as the go to rocker thanks to their ability to take on problematic Pokemon like Incineroar. It also no longer really checks the big fairy types in the tier as it hates Energy Ball from Whims and HP Fire from LO Comfey. Its still a great mon for what it offers, but it actually has opportune cost for using it which it hasn't ever had before.

You're also forced to run Curse or Roar this meta thanks to Braviary, so you dont even have the luxary to run toxic and not be bait for Slowbro which is another huge trend hitting Lix. It also cant break Xatu like the other 2 top rockers can.



A- --> A

Comfey is insane. CM sets can literally just steal games, and it really doesn't have good answers. The best thing the tier has for it are things like Golbat and Silvally-steel which by their own right are super passive and exploitable. This can revenge kill all the top relevant threats right now and blow past all the steels with chip. And if you don't have a dedicated answer to this alive at all times, it will sweep you and not give you much you can do about it.
Thanks to its amazing bulk and healing, you can't even have the option to stay in and punish it for setting up. It will just set up in your face and heal off any attempt to chip at it if you're a special attacker like Whimsicott or Diancie.




C+ --> C/ C-

This mon is ass. The only notable thing about it is its good match up into offense if you get the predictions right which is why I don't want to nom this to D. Outside of the small niche its just a fast mon that loses to Slowbro who can safely switch in and scout whatever it locks to. If you lock the only move that can damage Slowbro in Stone Edge, then its an easy double into Rhydon or Passimian. If you lock any kind of coverage move then Bro just laughs at you. The only match ups it can do anything in are ones without Slowbro or any general physical wall, and when you get every prediction right and always have rocks off your field. This things just not good.




C+ --> B+

I swear this thing will be in A somewhere by the end of Snake. Specs Eggy-a just doesn't have switch ins right now. We're in a meta where generic special walls like Audino and Type Null have been replaced by the popular pseudo special walls like AV Bro and Berry Incineroar. So these massive hole punching special breakers can have a field day. Thanks to its amazing typing and bulk you're allowed to use this breaker to its full potential, being able to hard switch into threats such as Slowbro and Rotom with no fear and break whatever tries to come in. You're already seeing Snake players picking this up, and its only going to get more usage from here.




B- --> C+

Malamar hasn't been relevant this entire gen. Bug types like Vikavolt are getting common, fairy types like Whimsicott and Comfey are everywhere, and even things like Slowbro which would once find itself set up fodder are running Signal Beam. The metas just not very nice to the poor squid.
 
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A- --> A

Comfey is insane. CM sets can literally just steal games, and it really doesn't have good answers. The best thing the tier has for it are things like Golbat and Silvally-steel which by their own right are super passive and exploitable. This can revenge kill all the top relevant threats right now and blow past all the steels with chip. And if you don't have a dedicated answer to this alive at all times, it will sweep you and not give you much you can do about it.
Thanks to its amazing bulk and healing, you can't even have the option to stay in and punish it for setting up. It will just set up in your face and heal off any attempt to chip at it if you're a special attacker like Whimsicott or Diancie.
I would very much like to second this. I personally believe comfey is among the greats in NU, and A- is definitely too low. It can literally come back from 1-6 if the matchup is even just decent. Checks/counters to this mon are quite rare, especially considering the different sets running around (LO 2 attacks, LO taunt synthesis, etc), going even so far as to break stall quite well. Checks to this mon (like steelix, steelvally, garbodor) can often be worn down quite well with the rest of the team. This basically only leaves vileplume and golbat, where vileplume can lose the matchup depending on how many CM's comfey has up. Golbat generally beats comfey, but he can be pressured by rocks and teammates.

TLDR; Comfey doesn't need a lot of support from its teammates to literally just sweep through a lot of teams. Deserves to rise imo.
 

Cinccino: B- -> B (Maybe B+)
So I just started playing NU to lower Torterra's usage so it could possibly fall to ZU (lol I know). So I looked at the VR, grabbed a couple of mons that were high and that I like, and discovered Cinccino is actually pretty good. Let's start with the set.

Cinccino @ Life Orb/Choice Band
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap (LO)/ Rock Blast (CB)
- Bullet Seed
- Knock Off
- U-turn

For starters, the thing's speed is ridiculous. Fully invested (and nature) Cinccino has a speed stat of 361, making it one of the fastest mons in the tier. In fact, only 5 NU mons (not counting PU and stuff like that, and even with PU and PUBL it's only 9) outspeed Cinccino: Accelgor, Aerodactyl, Minior (ew lol), Sceptile, and Whimsicott. So yeah, it's pretty fast. But what else this thing do? Well, it has an attack stat of 289, boosted by either 30% (Life Orb) or 50% (Choice Band), and with Tail Slap, Bullet Seed, and Knock Off all being decently powerful, you can dish out some serious hurt. Here are some (lol) calcs to support that:

252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 210-245 (53.2 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 240-290 (60.9 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Vanilluxe: 255-300 (90.1 - 106%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Guzzlord: 355-430 (60.4 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Passimian: 240-290 (70.3 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Audino-Mega: 180-220 (43.9 - 53.6%) -- approx. 11.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Rotom: 276-325 (114.5 - 134.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Hariyama: 330-390 (76.9 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 350-415 (89 - 105.5%) -- approx. 6.3% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasel: 350-415 (139.4 - 165.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 200+ Def Garbodor: 195-235 (53.5 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Eviolite Rhydon: 340-415 (96.8 - 118.2%) -- approx. 93.8% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Cinccino Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 520-625 (125.6 - 150.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Leftovers recovery
It's even more if you decide to go Choice Band.
Cinccino isn't as good defensively, but it can still take a hit from some of NU's top threats.
0 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinccino: 130-154 (44.6 - 52.9%) -- 23.8% chance to 2HKO (Psyshock does exactly the same)
252+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cinccino: 211-249 (72.5 - 85.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Guzzlord Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinccino: 200-236 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixie Plate Whimsicott Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Cinccino: 199-235 (68.3 - 80.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

As far as meta changes go, it appreciates Rhydon rising, as Cinccino can outspeed and the Rhydon will either switch out or likely die to Bullet Seed, and even if Rhydon manages to survive, Cinccino isn't likely to die in one hit. Steelvally dropping also benefited Cinch, because that kind of walls it. Finally, Dhelmise rising is a plus because of Cinch's access to Knock Off.

Finally, some replays showing off Cinccino, seven to be exact (most of these guys forfeited because Cinch was destroying them lol). I get that some of them are low ladder, but I still think they still show off Cinccino fairly well.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-796060421
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-796097649
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-796133741
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-805786461
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-806020784
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-806572824
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-808599050

And there you go. Now I am by no means an NU player, so if this sounds like newbie's work, that's because it is. However, I still think Cinccino should rise to B.
 
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Finchinator

-OUTL
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OU Leader
A tale of two fighters~

We shall start with the more controversial nomination; Passimian should move up to S. Passimian has been one of the most common Pokemon in the tier and for good reason. First off, it is ridiculously consistent and splashable. Part of this is due to the fact that it has access to good overall coverage with CC, Knock, and U-turn with sky high Attack, but it’s also due to the metagame’s lack of other acceptable Scarf users. While having a Scarfer isn’t mandatory on a lot of structures, Passimian being a great choice for the slot has let building evolve in a way that oftentimes fixates itself around the revenge killing and momentum generating surrounding the presence of Scarf Passimian. I personally use it more than both S rank Pokemon right now, but see why some would make a distinction between the three. Slowbro is clearly the best defensive presence in the metagame and it also has one of the most broken abilities out there, in Regenerator. Incineroar is a ridiculously convenient defensive pivot and it also has top notch offensive potential with Swords Dance sets. So, what is Passimian the “best” at in such a relevant fashion to where it puts itself in the same discussion as these two as opposed to a tier below? Mainly momentum generating as the metagame has a number of hard hitters that love the repetitive luring in of Slowbro/Xatu in conjunction with the Speed to force our many opposing offensive threats, but also revenge killing — there are literally no remotely comparable revenge killers, even if you count Sneasel due to its Speed and Ice Shads. Passimian is hands down the best fast, offensive U-turner in the metagame and I feel that this is an increasingly integrated teambuilding piece that we can’t neglect to acknowledge, especially seeing as everything is relative and the competition with Passimian simply doesn’t strike me as prominent. To add onto this, the Choice Band set is actually quite good and often outruns a vast majority of Pokemon on balance anyway given the slower nature of the metagame and there are more niche variants like the BU + Z-UTurn variant Kushalos successfully rocked against FLCL in Snake. All things considered, Passimian is a bonafide top 3 Pokemon in the tier and belongs in S rank given the aforementioned standout qualities it possesses.

The second nomination is a bit less relevant and certainly less controversial; Hitmonlee should drop from B to at LEAST C. Nobody uses Hitmonlee anymore and it sticks out like Hootie in the Snake field in the context of B rank, which isn’t a good thing by any stretch of the imagination. It was already bad to begin with, but Passimian gives it competition as a Fighter more than ever now, as I touched on above at length, Slowbro and Xatu are both as good and common as ever, and two new Ghosts are now in the tier, preventing HJK spam and any attempts to Rapid Spin. Yea, Knock does do well against both, but that makes Hitmonlee a guessing game Pokemon at absolute best and it was pretty poor to begin with, so at this point you’re like why use this when there’s actually good removal and Fighting types? To which you notice that the answer is that there’s literally no reason to use Hitmonlee. Nuke rn
 
A tale of two fighters~

We shall start with the more controversial nomination; Passimian should move up to S. Passimian has been one of the most common Pokemon in the tier and for good reason. First off, it is ridiculously consistent and splashable. Part of this is due to the fact that it has access to good overall coverage with CC, Knock, and U-turn with sky high Attack, but it’s also due to the metagame’s lack of other acceptable Scarf users. While having a Scarfer isn’t mandatory on a lot of structures, Passimian being a great choice for the slot has let building evolve in a way that oftentimes fixates itself around the revenge killing and momentum generating surrounding the presence of Scarf Passimian. I personally use it more than both S rank Pokemon right now, but see why some would make a distinction between the three. Slowbro is clearly the best defensive presence in the metagame and it also has one of the most broken abilities out there, in Regenerator. Incineroar is a ridiculously convenient defensive pivot and it also has top notch offensive potential with Swords Dance sets. So, what is Passimian the “best” at in such a relevant fashion to where it puts itself in the same discussion as these two as opposed to a tier below? Mainly momentum generating as the metagame has a number of hard hitters that love the repetitive luring in of Slowbro/Xatu in conjunction with the Speed to force our many opposing offensive threats, but also revenge killing — there are literally no remotely comparable revenge killers, even if you count Sneasel due to its Speed and Ice Shads. Passimian is hands down the best fast, offensive U-turner in the metagame and I feel that this is an increasingly integrated teambuilding piece that we can’t neglect to acknowledge, especially seeing as everything is relative and the competition with Passimian simply doesn’t strike me as prominent. To add onto this, the Choice Band set is actually quite good and often outruns a vast majority of Pokemon on balance anyway given the slower nature of the metagame and there are more niche variants like the BU + Z-UTurn variant Kushalos successfully rocked against FLCL in Snake. All things considered, Passimian is a bonafide top 3 Pokemon in the tier and belongs in S rank given the aforementioned standout qualities it possesses.
I disagree
One of the best things about Incineroar is it's versatility to run many different but similar sets that require slight alterations in strategy to take down
A good thing about Slowbro is that it can run several items and can run some unexpected moves like trick room that counter it's would be checks
Compared to that Passimian has literally one set: Choice Scarf, Jolly, Close Combat, Knock Off, U-Turn and almost always Earthquake (the biggest variable to him that only 80% of people run)
He also gets completely countered by Comfey
IMO He is too one-dimensional to be S, even if he is strong enough
 

Snou

the grand master of all the things bad!
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I disagree
One of the best things about Incineroar is it's versatility to run many different but similar sets that require slight alterations in strategy to take down
A good thing about Slowbro is that it can run several items and can run some unexpected moves like trick room that counter it's would be checks
Compared to that Passimian has literally one set: Choice Scarf, Jolly, Close Combat, Knock Off, U-Turn and almost always Earthquake (the biggest variable to him that only 80% of people run)
He also gets completely countered by Comfey
IMO He is too one-dimensional to be S, even if he is strong enough
Being able to run different sets is not necessarily a requirement to be a prominent mon. Passimian is the best scarfer in the tier and its impact on the metagame is huge. A single check for it is not enough, especially in hazards-based-on teams. Comfey is not a counter and you might have noticed EQ is not even a move on Passimian anymore, since the only reason to use it (Toxicroak), is gone now. It gets Gunk Shot, that hits (and kills) every possible fairy. The only switchins on Passimian's U-Turn are pursuitable mons (Palossand, Slowbro), or generally slow ones, which means you can easily let in your wallbreaker.
The fact that scarf nearly obliterates any other possible Passimian set (CB, Z) doesn't mean Passimian doesn't deserve a S.
 

Rabia

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GP & NU Leader
A tale of two fighters~

We shall start with the more controversial nomination; Passimian should move up to S. Passimian has been one of the most common Pokemon in the tier and for good reason. First off, it is ridiculously consistent and splashable. Part of this is due to the fact that it has access to good overall coverage with CC, Knock, and U-turn with sky high Attack, but it’s also due to the metagame’s lack of other acceptable Scarf users. While having a Scarfer isn’t mandatory on a lot of structures, Passimian being a great choice for the slot has let building evolve in a way that oftentimes fixates itself around the revenge killing and momentum generating surrounding the presence of Scarf Passimian. I personally use it more than both S rank Pokemon right now, but see why some would make a distinction between the three. Slowbro is clearly the best defensive presence in the metagame and it also has one of the most broken abilities out there, in Regenerator. Incineroar is a ridiculously convenient defensive pivot and it also has top notch offensive potential with Swords Dance sets. So, what is Passimian the “best” at in such a relevant fashion to where it puts itself in the same discussion as these two as opposed to a tier below? Mainly momentum generating as the metagame has a number of hard hitters that love the repetitive luring in of Slowbro/Xatu in conjunction with the Speed to force our many opposing offensive threats, but also revenge killing — there are literally no remotely comparable revenge killers, even if you count Sneasel due to its Speed and Ice Shads. Passimian is hands down the best fast, offensive U-turner in the metagame and I feel that this is an increasingly integrated teambuilding piece that we can’t neglect to acknowledge, especially seeing as everything is relative and the competition with Passimian simply doesn’t strike me as prominent. To add onto this, the Choice Band set is actually quite good and often outruns a vast majority of Pokemon on balance anyway given the slower nature of the metagame and there are more niche variants like the BU + Z-UTurn variant Kushalos successfully rocked against FLCL in Snake. All things considered, Passimian is a bonafide top 3 Pokemon in the tier and belongs in S rank given the aforementioned standout qualities it possesses.

The second nomination is a bit less relevant and certainly less controversial; Hitmonlee should drop from B to at LEAST C. Nobody uses Hitmonlee anymore and it sticks out like Hootie in the Snake field in the context of B rank, which isn’t a good thing by any stretch of the imagination. It was already bad to begin with, but Passimian gives it competition as a Fighter more than ever now, as I touched on above at length, Slowbro and Xatu are both as good and common as ever, and two new Ghosts are now in the tier, preventing HJK spam and any attempts to Rapid Spin. Yea, Knock does do well against both, but that makes Hitmonlee a guessing game Pokemon at absolute best and it was pretty poor to begin with, so at this point you’re like why use this when there’s actually good removal and Fighting types? To which you notice that the answer is that there’s literally no reason to use Hitmonlee. Nuke rn
Yeah so to expand on this as best I can (and this will be touching both Pokemon, specifically Passimian's effect on the viability of the latter): Passimian has reached a point where it chokes the viability/splashability of other Fighting-type Pokemon to some degree because of defensive synergy - you can't run both Passimian and another Fighting-type (bar like Medicham because wallbreaking with Medicham for Passimian late-game is fun as hell) because of the utter lack of defensive synergy stacking two mono Fighting-types leads to. While Hariyama fights against that norm somewhat, that's more because it fits on builds you generally wouldn't consider Passimian on (basically, semi stall). Additionally, Passimian is without a doubt the best Choice Scarf user in the tier, which honestly chokes Hitmonlee's potential for running any set other than White Herb Unburden. Access to U-turn is essentially all that Passimian needs to put itself leagues above Hitmonlee in terms of Choice Scarf users. So when looking at whether or not it's even worth to use Hitmonlee, I feel we should only analyze it based on the Curse set; it's the only set Hitmonlee has that it cannot be argued to be outclassed in.

I believe this set to actually not be all too horrible right now; the prominence of Assault Vest Slowbro as opposed to standard defensive Slowbro opens up some potential to break teams effectively, as Slowbro is Hitmonlee's most ubiquitous answer. Additionally, Garbodor isn't necessarily all that common, and Palossand has been on a downward trend since Gigalith was banned. So the problem essentially doesn't lie in that Hitmonlee's a bad Pokemon; rather, I believe it's just that Passimian is so much fucking better. Here you've got a Pokemon that 1) checks a plethora of metagame threats in Incineroar, Sneasel, Heliolisk, Vanilluxe, Guzzlord, ..., 2) provides significantly more utility through the combination of U-turn + Knock Off, allowing it to never have to "deal" per se with a bad matchup while also letting it cripple switch-ins, and 3), and perhaps the most important issue, type synergy. I mentioned this earlier, and I honestly believe it to be the most prominent reason for Hitmonlee's current shortcomings. When I build a team, one of the thoughts running through my mind is always "is there a better Pokemon to slap here?"; Passimian is a Pokemon that comes up a good ass amount of the time when looking a explicitly Choice Scarf users. It bottlenecks the viability of other Fighting-types bar Medicham (and Gallade too, maybe even Scrafty lol), just because it offers more and you cannot reliably run Passimian + say, Sawk or Hitmonlee on the same team. I agree with esteemed-user Finch; Hitmonlee is just so hard to justify on teams, and while it does have a niche (which is what should keep it not D-rank), its niche is really not all too impressive even if some metagame trends are favorable.

To touch on Passimian to S-rank: I can get behind this, although I'm not sure if Passimian is quite on par yet with Incineroar and Slowbro. I will never doubt Passimian being the best Choice Scarf user in the tier; hell, we've even see some tournament play showcasing other sets of Passimian (well, one other set), demonstrating Passimian to not be a one-trick monkey. I think we could probably do with moving Passimian up; the sheer utility it provides as a Choice Scarf user and unrivaled viability and effectiveness of that set among the rest of the tier really puts it above other A+-rank Pokemon bar maybe Sneasel (best trapper in tier, fucks up many common threats, overall good Pokemon that is underappreciated), and while Incineroar and Slowbro are two of the best defensive pivots in the tier and offer undoubtedly more versatility than Passimian probably ever could... versatility =/= viability. It helps of course, but that is not the only determining factor. I made a post awhile back regarding this:

(this was in response to a post elodin made regarding an S-rank overhaul)

Passimian: While versatility does correlate to a degree with viability (see: Slowbro, Diancie), and I will not refute Passimian is a generally linear Pokemon, lack of versatility =/= less viable than a more versatile Pokemon. We've seen this before with Pokemon such as Sawk getting banned from PU (and I believe NU in previous generations) solely because of one or two sets. While Sawk was clearly more overwhelming in its ability to break teams than Passimian (this can be attributed to Choice Scarf being the most common set), the point I am trying to make is that just because a Pokemon runs a limited number of sets, that doesn't make it objectively worse than a Pokemon with multiple sets. We see another example of a dominating Pokemon with all of two or three sets (depends on if you count ToxicTect Vanilluxe as a set) in Vanilluxe, a Pokemon you yourself are pushing for S-.

I believe Passimian to be if anything just marginally worse than Vanilluxe/Diancie; it is the best Choice Scarf user in the tier given its access to U-Turn and hitting as hard as it needs to without anything but 252 Attack investment (EDIT: there's more to it obviously; Passimian is also deceptively bulky and sits at a nice speed tier while revenging prominent threats in the meta such as Heliolisk and Incineroar), and its Choice Band set is grossly underrated because of how damn effective it is as a Choice Scarf user. I haven't used Fightinium Z, though I will comment that that set's existence does attest to Passimian's ability to adapt.

Have fun reading.
 
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ok my turn again!!


drop Sneasel to A, Medicham to A-, and Audino to B+

Sneasel hasn't aged well. I think CB is still my favorite but dread plate is fine, either way Sneasel loses to Incineroar which is a big nono. It also loses to Passimian, which is another big nono, and in general is pooped by half of A+ (losing to every rocker sucks). And don't even get me started on Comfey :pirate:. Of course, it's still the only relevant pursuiter in a tier with a few ghosts and kinda frail mons, so it's still good, just not as Passimian or Vanilluxe good.

Medicham has a niche as a button clicker but clicking buttons is as risky as ever. Protect and ghosts are pretty popular, and you still have to predict a switchin to 2HKO defensive Slowbro. It's super prediction reliant, and doesn't really switch into anything. It's still A- because it is an offensive wall breaker that is not Passimian weak, but it also means (usually) you don't have a Passimian of your own and instead have a dude with very little defensive utility. As a wall breaker it's got some meaningful competition from Dhelmise and Vanilluxe (even CB Passimian) but has clear advantages (speed, not rock weak). I think this one is pretty arguable, though, and overall Medicham is still a good mon.

I really don't understand how Audino is staying this high when it's one of the most passive mons in the game, and only really sees play on stall. Nobody uses this on balance because it is a free switchin for pretty much every wall breaker in the tier. Audino's offensive presence is (sometimes) toxic, a feat that (fortunately) no other common defensive mon in nu can claim. I'd nominate this down to B, but the Audino resistance seems to be strong. When was the last time you saw Audino balance though, be honest...


raise Druddigon to B+

Druddigon has a few things going for it: With helmet (and optionally rough skin), you can punish uturn hard. Mold Breaker sets up rocks on Xatu which is still common, and I tried out some variants of LO SF that are pretty cool and effective. Mold Breaker + helmet is the best set, and it's very consistent at setting up rocks and punishing Passimian/Incineroar uturns, especially with taunt to prevent defog. It has solid resists to water/electric/grass that let it come in often and give it some clear advantages over other rockers.

also A- as a whole is :facepalm:
-----
Some other not rank move-y stuff:


Let's make a list of stuff that people pick on Hitmonlee for and check if they are full of silly or not (and a bonus segment about S rank Passimian to all you faithful readers!!):
First, let it be known finchinator :fukyu: has a lower win rate in nu snake games that hootie :toast: at this moment in time.

1. Hitmonlee is a worse Passimian
2. It loses to Slowbro and Xatu or makes a lot of turns 50/50
3. Hitmonlee does not learn U-turn


Passimian is super common because it is splashable speed control that can also be a pretty solid Incineroar check and has uturn. Hitmonlee is a much softer Incineroar check that is not speed control (if you wanted to use LO you could get away with stuff like mach punch, though you shouldn't be using LO).

But this is not really what Hitmonlee is about.

Passimian is a hoodlum :pimp:. He likes ding dong ditching and trick-or-treating at the same house twice. He doesn't like staying in one place for a long time since the feds might catch up to him. He knows it's risky to get into a fist fight early on in the school year since it's really hard to catch up in math when you fall behind, so he waits till the end of the year before he brawls.

Hitmonlee is more like a unlucky firefighter :toast:. He doesn't clock in until the end of the day when everyone is pooped, but since he just showed up he's full of energy. You can't blame him, though, his car broke down in the rain and he had to walk 8 miles to work. Poor guy. Really he needs all the help he can get, and he's so unlucky that you can't help but give it to him. But when the time comes, he's still a firefighter, so when a homie calls in and tells him it's time to go, it's time to go. He'll show up and fight that fire so fast you'd think he was a firefighter.

I hope these character sketches help paint a clear picture as to what the difference between Hitmonlee and Passimian is. Hitmonlee's only viable set as far as I'm concerned is unburden curse as rabia said. This set has a niche, since the use of av bro on a lot of teams let's it clean up nicely a lot. If we look at common balance builds, a set of curse / close combat / knock off / stone edge or iron head cleans common teams and is pretty much impossible to revenge (you can see BU Passimian do similar things as far as coverage goes, but it's a lot slower in exchange for a zmove and uturn so Hitmonlee is more effective against teams with Rotom, for example). There's also no 50/50's involved when you aren't spamming HJK / choice locked attacks!

"Ok tangy, you've convinced me that Hitmonlee isn't totally useless. But if I run a mon with no mouth, then I can't run a monkey!", you say with arms up in dissatisfaction.

You'd be right, fighting spam is kinda poop since you can't really wear down the most common fighting checks (bro, ghosts, comfey). Earlier we said that Passimian is super common because it is an easy to fit Incineroar answer + speed control in the same slot. But let's say you have something like Rhydon + generic fast mon (think Whimsicott or Sceptile or Rotom or Heliolisk, etc). How much do you really need a Passimian? Rhydon + a soft check in Lee is pretty fine vs Incineroar for most teams that aren't 4 other slow, passive mons. Having a scarfer is drastically overrated since the only kinda relevant speed boosting sweepers are Scrafty/Klinklang (which both beat Passimian btw), and a mon like Sceptile or Whims can already outrun most of the tier (there's also Comfey if you're into that), and the really fast mons have some pretty solid defensive answers. Let's not forget that Hariyama is still up in the A ranks, and you really don't want to run Hariyama + Passimian either (though this is less of a sin).


sorry the last point is irrefutable, guess hitmonlee is unviable.

The point of my finchinator esque wall of text is not to save Hitmonlee from the depths of C (though if you look at what else is in B, you'd realize it is placed just fine, though you could argue for B- I guess), just to point out some misleading ideas.

:mehowth:

As far as Passimian to S, it's a no from me. In my eyes, Passimian is the only viable scarfer (scarf Rotom is mostly poop, not quite big poop) because it offers hard to deny role compression as an Incineroar answer + speed control, and is useful in all matchups because of U-Turn. But it does not warp the metagame around itself (being the best fighting obviously means it'll make other fightings worse so I don't think that counts, but stuff like Hariyama and Medicham are still viable). There are simple and common ways the meta has to deal with Passimian that it already had before such as protect or rocky helmet or colbur berry ghosts. There's a lot of things that live a hit and can hit it hard in exchange because of the -1 defenses from CC, and there's a lot of things that can punish you spamming U-Turn on them. Passimian is also often very prediction reliant, as being locked into CC vs an immunity can be a huge momentum suck. Really, I think it's a picturesque A+ mon, with low risk and pretty good reward.
 

Yoshi

IT'S FINK DUMBASS
-> A
I've talked before about how this Pokémon is extremely match up reliant, and I still believe that's kind of true in some situations, but I've realized overtime that the match up is actually usually really in Comfey's favor. Notably, the recent downfall in usage of Steelix and Silvally Steel are the main contenders. Also the increase in usage of Dragon-types like Guzzlord and Drampa as well. The point is, things that required chip for Comfey to beat are becoming less common as time as gone on, and I think it's actually pushed up Comfey's viability quite a bit, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Another great reason is that overtime we've really found the best Comfey coverage in Draining Kiss / Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire, which pretty much hits anything and everything Comfey needs to. The only real problem Comfey has is attempting to set up, which is still kind of difficult, but nonetheless very threatening when it manages to do so. All in all, move Comfey up to A.

-> S (Agree)
I talked about placing Passimian in S rank a month or so ago, so it's nice to see that people are bringing up this topic again. First and foremost, I think it's important to note that Passimian is one of the driving forces in the NU metagame. It's objectively the best Choice Scarf user, the general go-to Fighting-type, and pairs with Heliolisk to make a powerful voltturn core. The recent additions of the Ghost-types and even Aerodactyl to some extent has increased Passimian's viability as Knock Off really makes work against Choice Band Dhelmise and non-z variants of Decidueye. Also, Passimian's speed tier allows it to out speed Aerodactyl and OHKOs with Close Combat. Another thing that makes Passimian desirable is the usage increase in Guzzlord and Drampa, both of which are weak to Close Combat. Also, while you could argue that the increased usage of Comfey and Whimsicott (and even Aromatisse to some extent) has made Passimian a bit difficult to use in some match ups, Passimian isn't really in huge need of Earthquake right now, and can run Gunk Shot in place of that, rendering some of the Fairy-types unable to perform their jobs in some cases. Overall, Passimian is definitely still a dominant force in the meta game, and should move to S rank in reflection of that.

Edit: It was previously mentioned that Passimian is highly prediction reliant, but realistically that can be said about any Pokemon in all honesty. Another thing noted was that there are U-Turn punishers, and while that is true, none of them are actually in high usage right now, and while they are more viable than they are made out to be, they aren't receiving the necessary usage to be noteworthy in this situation (I am thinking of Druddigon in particular, Vileplume is also an example). Once those kinds of Pokemon start picking up on the ladder, which I do believe that they will, then we can certainly revisit that point and I'd agree.
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
yes this is my third post in like the last week

yes i should wait longer

but i wont

unranked -> C / C+, preferably C+
So let me first introduce the set I am nominating Charizard's placement for:
Charizard @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Substitute
- Toxic

* You can customize the EVs to your liking if you value bulk more than Speed or vice versa. I opted to outspeed Jolly Medicham and Passimian lacking Choice Scarf.
This set is really, really good right now. It fits really nicely on balanced builds as a pseudo wall and has a favorable matchup against much of the metagame. A few examples: Passimian(!!!), Steelix, Vanilluxe, Decidueye, Dhelmise, Whimsicott, Comfey(!!!), and Sceptile. It also has a surprisingly decent matchup against the myriad of bulky Water-types the tier has, as it's able to Toxic stall them effectively and inevitably get up a Substitute or Roost on a turn they go for recovery. So... why would you ever use this over Incineroar, which sports better bulk, arguably better utility in Knock Off + U-turn + Intimidate, and no weakness to Stealth Rock? Well for starters, the biggest advantage Charizard has is access to reliable recovery in Roost. Roost IS thE CRuX oF thE sET and, along with Substitute and Toxic, gives Charizard both sustain and the ability to actually beat Vaporeon and defensive Slowbro (you do need to Substitute up on their switch in). Additionally, Charizard is able to be a more consistent check to what it is switching into because of Roost as well as less fear of random coverage (Hidden Power Rock Sceptile is saddening though). Having a reliable Comfey answer is awesome too, especially considering no one is going to Taunt a Charizard with Comfey until it's too late lol.

Also keep in mind not all the Pokemon I listed are hard countered by Charizard; some of them you can only really threaten to revenge kill, while others are checked/countered fairly well.

Yeah, this nomination may seem a bit ambitious, but I genuinely believe defensive Charizard holds a valuable spot in the current metagame and is more than just a shit meme set. Here's a replay showing me dominating neomon in embarrassing fashion: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7nu-798941438

I love you, neomon <3

Also big thanks to Raseri; saw him using Charizard in a game and it inspired me to use a bulky set. Little did I know the man was decades ahead of me and was already using it.

B+ -> A-
fuck this broken fucking wasp fucker fuck. Alright so, this Pokemon is one of the few reliable switch-ins to Passimian + Dhelmise and feeds on every single standard defensive core in the game. The serious drop-off in Type: Null and Mega Audino usage has been a blessing, as those were two Pokemon that could semi-reliably deal with it.

B -> B+ / A-
Delphox is actually pretty decent right now despite the prominence of Incineroar, and this is primarily thanks to its Calm Mind + 3 attacks set being good at beating most defensive cores really handily. Psychic-type STAB attacks aren't really necessary right now, as Fire Blast nukes whatever you would use them for, while Dazzling Gleam and Grass Knot round out its moveset very nicely. You run Grassium Z on this btw. Its Speed tier is also incredible in a meta that sort of revolves around than base 80 Speed spot still. Delphox also appreciates the dip in Sneasel usage, as it allows Delphox to not have to worry about being Pursuit trapped or picked off by something faster. Also pivots on Passimian Close Combat, which is always appreciated.

C+ -> lower
Not to beat a dead horse, but Aerodactyl is just... underwhelming. The main issue stems from its over reliance on Stone Edge and a Choice Band to do meaningful damage, and we all know just how reliable Stone Edge is. It doesn't help either that Aerodactyl is walled pretty effectively by a huge amount of prominent walls: Slowbro, Rhydon, Steelix, etc. all do not give a fuck about what this Pokemon has to do (I guess Aqua Tail tech could work though). Maybe we just haven't experimented enough with Aerodactyl? Maybe those Pressure sets are what should be used as standard? I have no idea. But what I do know is that Aerodactyl is just underwhelming as a fast attacker. I'd rather use something like Heliolisk or Sceptile for the sake of having good matchups more often.

Some general noms I agree with:
-> S best Choice Scarf user in the tier and it isn't even close, doesn't actually have bad matchups because of U-turn (guess Vileplume sucks for it though), and loves AV Slowbro being more common than physically defensive, since Passimian can gain at least a little chip damage off its U-turn. Basically read Finch's post and my response lol.
-> A I find myself defaulting to Rhydon and Diancie a lot more often now just because they can check Incineroar and don't lose super hard to Rotom.
-> higher Been using some bulky offense shit with this. Puts in work and rewards good prediction similar to Sceptile. Sort of sucks that you're Comfey fodder if you ever use Draco, but teambuilding should cover these sort of "duh" issues.
-> B+ Decent Incineroar check and makes Passimian very sad.
-> lower
it's bad. Fits only on Stall which isn't very viable currently and is super passive. Should be put with Pyukumuku in B, its stall friend.

Some nominations I do not agree with:
-> A- It's gotten better if anything thanks to Slowbro being more offensively based and Palossand usage trending downward. Sure it's a bitch to get in, but boy does it reward getting good in.
 

poh

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UR -> C+

I've been having a lot of fun testing some PU mons lately and discovered this little gem. The set I'm using is Work Up with Grassium Z as it lets you beat traditional checks like Slowbro, Slowking, Rhydon, and Diancie. Its speed and power coupled with good STABs forces switches making good use of Work Up. Pyroar's typing also lets it offensively check prominent threats like Decidueye and Comfey. Another cool thing it has is Unnerve. People like to use Figy Berry Incineroar as their Fire resist and Unnerve doesn't let the berry activate which is a huge problem for Incineroar's longevity. It beats like 75% of the mons in the A ranks and I suggest you try it out. NU isn't stale at all you just gotta scroll in your builder from time to time
252 SpA Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 105-124 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 SpA Pyroar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 294-348 (74.8 - 88.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Pyroar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro: 440-518 (111.9 - 131.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 252 SpA Pyroar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowking: 338-398 (86 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252 SpA Pyroar Bloom Doom (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Diancie: 296-350 (97.3 - 115.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 SpA Pyroar Hyper Voice vs. 244 HP / 136+ SpD Incineroar: 168-198 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
Rises:

-> A

Don't have to recap what others have already mentioned, but Comfey puts a strain on standard bulky offense to answer it as shit like Lix and Steelvally both get chipped easily and don't appreciate repeatedly coming in on Comfey's coverage, and in general it sets up relatively easily in the face of special attacks like Diance and AV Slowbro and can steal the game from there. Overall with standard fairy resists becoming less common and the effectiveness of sets such as Life Orb and Specs that should push it into the A ranks imo.


-> A+

Brav is really solid rn between offensive BU and Sub BU sets that each posses their own set of qualities they present to team, setting up on Incineroar and Slowbro while still providing balance an answer to decidueye/dhelmise/whimsicott, etc. while offensive bu sets simply bop standard bird resists with z fight and shred Slowbro with z fly. Solid anti-meta mon atm and should rise on the merits of those sets.

-> A

Xatu has seen an influx of usage in the tournament scene as a hazard deterrent that can also act as a Fighting-resist and can support bulky offense with slow U-turns. Losing to the main rockers in Diance and Rhydon while dealing with Curse Steelix is problematic as it tries to bounce rocks and being overally passive means your setup bait for Incineroar, but its still one the better balance glues and deserves a spot in the A ranks imo.


-> A-

buz z vika is a competent breaker that boasts the ability to pivot into BroLix, Passimian, Dhelmise etc. and simply starts spamming brutally powerful attacks. It picked up traction in early snake and I believe demonstrated its ability to dismantle slower bulky offense builds that dominate this meta rn.

Drops:

-> B+

Maudino and passive special walls in general simply have less of a place in this meta. Incineroar sets up all over it, CM + Toxic Slowbro beats it, and even basic threats such as Gunk Shot Passimian and BU Braviary manage to exploit it. Its been long overdue for a drop imo.


-> B-


Like I mentioned above passive special walls are less useful in this meta and Cyro is no exeption. Most balance/BO runs Xatu or Wisp Rotom as their preferred form of hazard control, while on the other hand, Cyro loses to every rocker and gets discarded by every major threat (Incini, AV Bro, Pass, Braviary, and the list goes on).


-> B- / C+


While you could argue that Hitmonlee possess a small niche in Curse + Unburden it doesn't remove that factors in play against it tbh, Curse + Unburden is already niche as it is finding setup opportunities and breaking standard bulky offense and in general requires a ton of team support to function properly.

Also supporting Pass to S, Lix to A, Drudd to B+ and Aero to C-.
 
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