SM Ubers Toxicity (91+GXE, #2, 1800+)

[Knuckstrike]

Toxicity is my Ubers stall RMT. It features Toxic stall as a core win condition. Kids like to throw the word toxic at things that annoy them such as stall, so the name fits quite well.
Through playing with the team and taking recommendations, the team is at the point now where I'd be happy to use it in a tournament as an alternative to the offensive builds that are so common now. This team has gathered decent success, getting to #2 on the ladder (with 91+GXE, 1800+) and winning its match in PSPL finals.
Without further ado, let's get to the team.

Importable

https://pokepast.es/82490403340c49f3

This team aims to slow down the pace of the match without being a complete sack of potatoes. It contains the historically tough to break core of

, and has

,

to fall back on in case an opposing Pokemon gets out of hand. The team's purpose is to Toxic the opponent's offensive threats and switch around into the appropriate check(s) that they can't break through before succumbing to Toxic. While having much of their team on a timer, slowing down the game with Protect, Fake Out, Recover and Regenerator switching is tough to deal with for the opponent.


The team:

[Rest] [Thousand Arrows]
[Coil] [Protect]

Protect Zygarde-C is a set that works very well on stall builds. Zygarde profits immensely from Leftovers, healing decent chunks of HP because of its behemoth HP stat. Instead of a more common coverage move like Substitute or Dragon Tail, Protect is chosen as it synergises well with the Toxic stall theme of the team. When an opponent is Toxiced, the risk of set-up getting out of hand on a protect is very minor, as Zygarde will only come in against physical attackers that don't hit it for much regardless, and Toxic will wear them down quickly. Worst case scenario Ditto will be able to revenge kill them afterwards.
A Rest+Coil set is chosen to deal with both opposing stall and set-up. If Zygarde Coils alongside an opponent SD'ing more than once, the damage Zygarde takes won't change while the opponent will take more from Thousand Arrows. Rest allows it to outlast other status users such as Toxic Ho-Oh, while the defense boosts from Coil and Chansey's Heal Bell support means it won't fall an easy prey after using Rest.

Soft-checks:

(physical)

[Stealth Rock] [Toxic]
[Soft-Boiled ] [Heal Bell]

Either Chansey or Blissey is a prerequisite for any Ubers stall team, or OU for that matter. Its colossal special bulk makes it invaluable for this kind of build. I opted for Chansey over Blissey as Gothitelle is fairly uncommon among not only my tournament opponents but also the ladder, though if you're playing a tournament against a known Goth player, it's perfectly fine to switch it for Blissey. Chansey deals much better with Kyogre and Xerneas, while Blissey keeps hope alive vs Gothitelle.
As per usual with a Chansey, it gets some unmissable moves for stall. Its Heal Bell support works wonders, and getting a free turn is easiest for Chansey as it can hard counter certain special threats. Running Protect+Wish over Soft-Boiled is a fine option as well, dealing slightly better with Liquidation Kyogre and being able to rack up Toxic damage more easily. However, the move to forfeit for protect is tough to pick.
It's the best Stealth Rock user for stall, being able to set it up against the special attackers of the tier while not fearing much and outlasting annoying defoggers such as Giratina-O with Toxic. Toxic is the team's main way of dealing damage and helps Chansey with Kyogre, Xerneas, Special Arceus and other mons that can't hit it too hard.

Soft-checks:

[Foul Play] [Toxic]
[Fake Out] [Recover]

A flagship mon for stall, Sableye protects the team from many tricky leads such as Deoxys-Speed. It's a much needed stop against Marshadow and stops physical set-up with Foul Play. Fake Out works well in conjuction with the many Toxic users on the team, not only dealing damage itself but also racking up Toxic damage. Fake Out is chosen over Protect as Sableye is not threatened out by most ghosts and the damage is helpful to weaken Kyogre's Water Spout, as well as not risking set-up and preventing the opponent from Recovering when they're on a Toxic timer.
This set does not get 2HKO'd by Sunsteel Strike (or OHKO'd by +2), meaning it's a great counter to non-Z Necrozma-DM. If you fear the Z move coming when Fake Out reveals no Leftovers, scouting with Zygarde or Ho-Oh can often be a safer option if Sableye is needed to check Extremekiller Arceus or Marshadow later on in the match.

Soft-checks:

[Defog] [Sacred Fire]
[Toxic ] [Recover]

Ho-oh is the glue of the team, featuring in a double Defog core with Arceus-Water. It's able to outstall other stall teams with Ditto, keeping healthy while not losing PP due to Regenerator and Ditto's endless pp. While not on the team to check any specific threat, its purpose is to alleviate pressure off of teammates in a matchup where said teammates play an important role. If Chansey is too important to risk vs Xerneas, Ho-Oh can scout first. If Zygarde is too important to risk vs Lucario, Ho-oh can come in if they don't carry Edge, etc. It works together well with the teammates that can scout for rock-type coverage such as Zygarde and Arceus-Water. It's often safer to Defog with Arceus-Water in the early game rather than Ho-Oh on Pokemon that could carry rock coverage such as Groudon and Marshadow.
Apart from the staples in Recover, Defog and Sacred Fire, Toxic is chosen as it is the main win condition of the team, and many of the team's sets are built around it. It's also less risky than Brave Bird as Toxic does not inflict recoil. Though the lacking PP of Sacred Fire can be annoying, Sacred Fire PP is only a painpoint in a stall vs stall matchup where Ditto+Ho-Oh can outstall the opposing team most of the time.

Soft-checks:

(special)

[Defog] [Recover]
[Toxic ] [Judgment]

Arceus-Water is my Arceus forme of choice, chosen as it has the best matchup vs Primal Groudon out of any defensive Arceus forme. It shrugs off its fire type attacks like nothing in addition to Precipice Blades not being a 2HKO. It also outspeeds Pdon and can Recover while outlasting Toxic variants through recovery and Chansey's Heal Bell. The water typing is helpful against Kyogre as well, resisting Liquidation and Water Spout. In a pinch it can trade a Toxic for a Thunder while switching between Chansey and Arceus-Water afterwards (or Recovering).
Arceus-Water and Ho-Oh keep rocks off the field together when facing many of the tier's setters such as defensive Groudon-Primal, Dialga, Deoxys and Ferrothorn. Sableye deals with SR Necrozma as they don't generally also run SR + SD + Z move. Having rocks off the field is important for the team as Chansey won't be able to come in and Stealth Rock for free often if the opponent plays it well and doesn't try to put pressure on me with specially offensive pokemon during the game. With Ho-Oh in the back and the team being stallily built, sometimes you can't afford having rocks up on your side of the field for most of the match.
Regarding the set, Judgment is chosen over Ice Beam as it generally hits harder. The physical attackers that Ice Beam is normally supposed to hit such as Salamence-Mega are well handled by Zygarde and Sableye and so the additional coverage on Arceus isn't necessary. Groudon-Primal is stalled out regardless by Toxic, and Judgment hits Pokemon you need damage on harder such as Gengar, Necrozma-DM and Ho-Oh. 162 base damage compared to Beam's 90 also helps a lot for neutral hits and barely loses power (81 vs 90) against Dialga switching in.

Soft-checks:

[Transform]

Ditto is an idea I received from another player on the ladder who used it on a team similar to mine. Previously a spot for Lugia, Ditto deals more consistently with set-up, not being able to get haxed as it'll move first. Ditto is usually brought out late-game as in the early phase the rest of the team is still healthy enough to take on a set-up sweeper, and the purple blob won't be able to countersweep being locked into 1 attack. Helping immensely against both set-up offense and stall, the rest of the team has a good matchup vs balance so Ditto rounds the team out nicely.
Ditto should generally be preserved for the late-game against offense in case a set-up sweeper gets out of hand. In a stall matchup, Ditto can be an auto-win combined with Ho-Oh if my opponent does not bring 2 Stealth Rockers (with double Defog on Ho-Oh + Arceus, outlasting SR pp) and has no way to break through Ditto + Ho-Oh.
Ditto much prefers being able to OHKO a Pokemon when it revenge kills: in case of a set-up sweeper, it might be worth sacking a less useful member to weaken/Toxic the opponent so that Ditto can successfully perform a counter sweep.

Soft-checks:

Threatlist:

If Gothitelle manages to trap Chansey or Arceus-Water, the game becomes very tough if Xerneas or Groudon-Primal is in the back. Ho-Oh, Zygarde, Sableye and Ditto can all potentially deal with Gothitelle, but the pressure on Chansey and Arceus-Water to defend against key threats can be overwhelming.
Of course Gengar sucks to play against as well, but Gothitelle is a lot worse as she has access to recovery and can't be beat down as easily by Ho-Oh and Arceus-Water. Trading 1-for-1 with Gengar is not as bad as it's usually their stallbreaker and takes up the mega slot. While they both trap Chansey, you can usually avoid bringing out Chansey until Gengar is taken care of.

If Kyogre has both Liquidation and Thunder there is no way to stop it from taking a soul every time it comes in. Chansey and Arceus-Water can both take any hit and Toxic it, after which it can be stalled out in 5 more turns by recovering and predicting well. Arceus-Water takes around 65% from Thunder; Arc is not sturdy enough to Recover off the damage but it can rack up Toxic damage, even on wrong predictions. Adding a Ferrothorn to the team doesn't solve the problem regardless I think, so playing around it will have to do.
If Kyogre lacks Liquidation Chansey beats it (even Calm Mind sets lose to Toxic) and if Kyogre lacks Thunder Arceus beats it. Be sure to scout for their set as it might just be an easy to wall Kyogre if it lacks either move. In a pinch and if it's Toxiced, you can either sack Sableye for 3 turns of Toxic (initial turn, fake out, death), Arceus for as long as it doesn't get Thunder Paralyzed, or Chansey depending on Liquidation drops.

+ Stall
If it can crit through Zygarde with Ice Punch and there's a cleric in the back, Bulk Up Buzzwole on stall can potentially set up and chokehold the team. This team's attacks can get PP stalled quite quickly, so be careful about throwing out Sacred Fires and Judgments to weaken it. It's quite uncommon to face one.

A problem for any stall team, SD Necrozma-DM can potentially eliminate a key defender on my team. Though it's soft-checked by three of the team's members (Sableye, Zygarde, Ditto), with the right predictions and set it has a way around all of them. Zygarde can take even a +2 attack but generally needs to be kept healthy to check other threats. Sableye can take any hit but a +2 Sunsteel Strike. If it sets up enough, Ditto can come in after and claim a kill. Always look at the opponent's team and figure out which member of your team can be risked.

Importable again

https://pokepast.es/82490403340c49f3

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-777751623 -- Showing off a 'standard' game vs a good player with a standard team.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ubers-769445794 -- vs LordST in PSPL finals where Ditto plays an important role in a tough matchup.

 

[Lotus]

As one of the fewer players who favor using stall in majority of the games, I have to say this team has numerous flaws that can be exploited.

The first impression I get from the glance at the team is that this team is very vulnerable to Shadow Tag users. While Mega Gengar fails to trap Zygarde and Ho-Oh, Gothitelle is able to trap and remove Zygarde and Arceus-Water, both of which are presumably your only checks to Primal Groudon. Chansey being trappable seems like another huge detriment to me when the team is somewhat reliant on cleric support to function properly and outlast the opposing team. While I am aware that certain stall builds are inevitably vulnerable to Shadow Tag users, the fact that trappable Pokemon are intended to take on the most important Pokemon in the tier makes essentially any team with Gothitelle so easy to exploit the rest of the team when appropriate Pokemon have been trapped and removed. Note that both Ho-Oh and Arceus-Water are trappable, and once both or even either of them are gone, many teams will manage to set up entry hazards and will proceed to overpower the rest of your team with relative ease.

Entry hazards are also concerns to this team as well. Mega Sableye and the current Defog core you have in the team somewhat handles decent portion of common Stealth Rock users, but both Ho-Oh and Arceus-Water desire cleric support from Chansey to consistently function as a Defog user when Chansey itself is very easy to exploit and is trappable to Mega Gengar and Gothitelle with no other Pokemon to keep them in check or somewhat redeem its role in case of its removal. Swords Dance + Stealth Rock Primal Groudon will proceed to at worst impair one of your Pokemon, if not more, and get Stealth Rock up against three of your Pokemon dedicated to hazard control. Uncommon yet relevant offensive entry hazard setters like Dialga are also concerning to me as it remains as one of the fewer Pokemon that can set Stealth Rock against Mega Sableye and its common partners.

There also seems to me that there are more than just a few ways the defensive core can be dismantled. This includes, but are not limited to, Ultra Necrozma with Outrage, Swords Dance Necrozma-DM with Life Orb, any specialized variant of Yveltal or the standard sets carrying Knock Off, Calm Mind Arceus forms carrying Refresh, Physically oriented Primal Kyogre (which you seem to be aware of), Calm Mind Primal Kyogre using Substitute, Lunala, or even teams with Dragon Dance Zygarde-C that may employ Gothitelle or strong entry hazard setters and various wallbreakers to facilitate Zygarde-C's breakthrough. Even very specialized, niche, and less viable wallbreakers like Zekrom should be considered as a threat to this team, as apart from lacking a proper switch-in, it can OHKO 4 of your Pokemon and 2HKO the other two.

While most of the concerning parts of the team I have pointed out can be counterargued with presence of Ditto as a revenge killer, at this point it simply looks like a band-aid to cover various holes of your team to me. While Ditto can revenge kill majority of the offensive threats with Choice Scarf, it will be locked into a move if it switches in and attempts revenge kill a foe, possibly handing another chance to an opponent to set up on exploitable Ditto.

I apologize for generally negative comments towards the team, but it is hard to believe that a stall team with this many crippling flaws is going to be consistent or be reliable in the current state of the metagame with more threats rising in usage to threaten many stall builds. I'd still say Mega Sableye and Ho-Oh is a good defensive core to build a stall team with, but I'd strongly reconsider other teammates. Giratina is an option to consider over Zygarde-C to improve stall vs stall matchup with Pressure while still giving your team more security against Primal Groudon. If not, Lugia can serve as another defensive wall that covers significantly more threats than Coil Zygarde would. A different Arceus forme like Arceus-Dark can be considered to have better security against Ultra Necrozma and Lunala. Current standard sets run Judgment and Ice Beam to compress a role of checking both Lunala and 'prominent Dragon families', and it should be a fit due to it beating Shadow Tag users.

After all, stall teams are not in the best spot in Ubers in my perspective and I still respect your attempt to make it work. There has been various attempts by me and other players to execute a numerous variant of stall teams, such as Tyranitar stall, Ferrothorn stall, and more. The most reliable one we feel at this moment is building a stall team with Pokemon that do not have concerns about Shadow Tag users, as Gothitelle is getting more relevant and pressures teambuilding a lot more than it did in the past and Mega Gengar has more partners to be paired with and thus is found in more teams. That's the reason why I have suggested 'untrappable Pokemon' to your team when advising changes. I hope my feedback was constructive, and please feel free to leave any questions on my wall / PM.

 

[Knuckstrike]

As one of the fewer players who favor using stall in majority of the games, I have to say this team has numerous flaws that can be exploited.

Hiya, thank you for taking the time to read and rate. You raise some valid points and threats that I didn't include because I didn't want to make the threatlist too long.

A very good switch you mentioned I feel is switching Arceus-Water for Arceus-Dark. If you also switch Chansey for Blissey, the team becomes much better equipped against Gothitelle and has a good fighting chance as a result. It also helps vs Necrozma which it can outspeed, in contrast to my gameplan now which consist of either using Foul Play and hope it's not Z/LO, or switching in Zygarde and hoping it doesn't SD up more.

I feel like SD SR Primal Groudon is uncommon enough not to worry about it too much, and even if it has both of those support moves, I can still Toxic and Defog with Arceus, after which Ditto can revenge and essentially trade their breaker in Pdon for Arceus-Water. Ho-Oh deals well enough with Dialga to the point where I feel like it's not an enormous hazard.

Going quickly through the rest of your threats in the threatlist, CM Arceus seems to me like the mon standing out. While the rest of the mons seem to all have a decent method of being dealt with, I've found CM Refresh late-game Arceus to be the hardest to deal with. I originally had phazers such as Lugia and Giratina, though they didn't deal with it if it was used as their last mon. Personally I'm still struggling to figure out how to consistently beat it on an Ubers stall; for now Chansey can potentially stall it out even at +6 (+6 0 SpA Splash Plate Arceus-Water Judgment vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey: 43.6 - 51.5% -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO), and otherwise it can be pp stalled.

Lugia and Giratina I've not really liked on the team personally as switching Zygarde for them made me a lot weaker to Marshadow, as well as not having an option for physical attackers if SR happen to be up. While dealing with set-up when they're healthy, Giratina lacks reliable recovery and Lugia has no way to actually beat the mons, making phazing them out and hoping nothing is dragged in that beats said mons too unreliable for a stall team. In addition, they only make me more weak to Taunt Yveltal.
I'll try out Giratina though together with Arceus-Dark.