The Unbreakables ( peaked 1440 and still rising )

[Adrima]

Hi everyone ! I decided to enter LC tier a few weeks ago and wasn't disappointed at all. It is so fun !

After reading a lot of articles, I took some mons that I always like, put them together and tried to battle with it. It was quite a disaster but after some changes, I managed to climb little by little on the ladder, reaching 1389 and still rising...

But stop speaking, let's have a look at the team itself !

Foongus @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Level: 5
EVs: 124 HP / 156 Def / 72 SAtk / 156 SDef
Bold Nature
- Spore
- Sludge Bomb
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire

A good pivot imo. Spore can shut up a lot of threats. Giga Drain for STAB and Recovery and Sludge Bomb for second STAB of course. The Evs are for maximize bulk. However, I'm still hesitating about HP Fire > Stun Spore to hit Plant, Poison and Steel types. What do you think about it ?

Tirtouga @ Berry Juice
Ability: Sturdy
Level: 5
EVs: 212 Atk / 92 Def / 180 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Shell Smash

This little turtle is quite amazing if I can manage to set up a SS. But it has a lot of counter and it's sometimes difficult to get rid of them ( I especially don't like Pawniard and its Knock Off + Sucker Punch at all ). EdgeQuake for good coverage and Aqua Jet for nice priority. Repart to have a quite good special bulk ( maybe change it for more physical bulk ? ) and to hit hard and fast.

Meditite @ Eviolite
Ability: Pure Power
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Drain Punch
- Fake Out
- Thunder Punch
- Zen Headbutt

Eviolite Medidite has been quite effective for me. I hesitated a lot with Mienfoo but I like its amazing bulk and possibility to hit very hard with Pure Power. Drain Punch for STAB and recovery, Zen Headbutt for second STAB and big damages, Thunder Punch for coverage and Fake Out for priority, revenge killing, breaking Sash or Sturdy...

Pawniard @ Berry Juice
Ability: Defiant
Level: 5
EVs: 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SDef / 196 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Pawniard is here for 2 things : Knock off STAB and Sucker Punch priority, amazing to revenge kill. Swords Dance if I can set up one allows me to a sweep and Iron Head for STAB and quite good coverage. Pawniard just fears Fighting types a lot but I have Misdreavus to absorb Mach Punch, Drain Punch, HJK...

Misdreavus @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
Level: 5
EVs: 36 HP / 236 SAtk / 236 Spd
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Dazzling Gleam
- Heal Bell

Misdreavus is what my team lacked at the beginning : a bulky special sweeper. Thanks to its 3 immunity, it can switch in very easily. WoW to shut up physical sweeper ( Fighting types for example... ), Heal Bell to cure status, Shadow Ball for STAB. Dazzling Gleam to kill all the Fighting types who are very common in this tier. Repart to hit fast and hard.

Ponyta @ Eviolite
Ability: Flame Body
Level: 5
EVs: 76 Atk / 236 Def / 196 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Morning Sun
- Toxic
- Sunny Day

With this moveset, Ponyta is able to tank a lot of physical threats like Pawniard and waiting to burn them with his ability in order to make them useless by spamming Morning Sun. Toxic can be useful if burning is not needed and Sunny Day can make Morning Sun very useful and helps to sweep with Flare Blitz, a great STAB move even if the recoil can be annoying. Evs and Nature to maximize bulk and speed.

Finally, this team has been able to take down a lot of others but I feel it can be improved a lot. As I said, I'm just a beginner in the tier and have a lot to learn. My few losses were often due to my big mistakes. But the team has a quite big problem against Fighting types. If Scraggy manages to DD safely it's the end for me. And I also have a lot of difficulty against Mienfoo...

So if some great LC players may help me, I will be very happy ! Thanks for reading and don't hesitate to say what you think !

P.S.: I don't own any of the pictures so all credits go to the people who drew them.

 

[Adrima]

A little bump... If anybody could help I would be very happy. My team is imo great since I'm still rising on the ladder but some advices from very good LC players would be fantastic !

 

[Gates]

Well I'm not a "very good LC player" but...

Murkrow and Pawniard seem like they'd give you a lot of trouble. Your team is pretty Brave Bird weak and your fast pokes aren't bulky enough to take a +2 Sucker Punch. Tirtoruga is really the only thing you have that can fight these two, but only at the cost of losing its item (either through Knock Off or a Murkrow's Hidden Power) and thus its ability to sweep. Unfortunately I don't have much of a solution to deal with these two aside from maybe running Mienfoo over Meditite since it would be bulkier and able to resist their dark attacks better.

With Gligar banned, Ice Punch is not really necessary on Meditite. If you want to run a coverage move, use ThunderPunch. It's still effective against all the flying types (including Murkrow) and has the benefit of hitting Slowpoke for SE damage as well. Bullet Punch is also something you may want to think about so that you have a way do deal with Fairies in case Pawniard dies.

I'm also unsure about EQ on Tirtoruga. Sturdy Berry Magnemite will survive whatever you do and then either Volt Switch for the kill or recycle for PP stalling so hitting him for SE damage is irrelevant. It really seems like the only reason you're running it is because of Ferroseed. These damage calcs show that this is a futile effort:

+2 212+ Atk Tirtouga Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 188+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 10-12 (50 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+4 212+ Atk Tirtouga Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 188+ Def Eviolite Ferroseed: 14-17 (70 - 85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

92 Atk Ferroseed Bullet Seed (2 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Tirtouga: 32-48 (152.3 - 228.5%)-- guaranteed OHKO (no Berry Juice)
92 Atk Ferroseed Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Tirtouga: 48-72 (228.5 - 342.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO (even after Berry Juice)

In order to kill Ferrothorn, you'll have to pray for a low roll on a two-hit Bullet Seed or hope that seed+protect stalling doesn't wear you down enough for them to Gyro Ball you. And if you get paralyzed that's a whole other problem. Even then, it's easy for their priority attacker to come in after Ferrothorn and OHKO you with Sucker Punch since the chances of them being weak to Aqua Jet are generally low. I'd recommend Waterfall over EQ since you don't lose much coverage and giving up a STAB move with a chance of flinchhax to try and win these two impossible matchups is a waste.

I have to go to work now, but I'll test it more later tonight and see if there's anything I didn't catch. Overall there's not much to say about it because a lot of your sets are standard and you've got most of your bases covered. I especially like Heal Bell on Misdreavus, good call. Running 252 speed on it is pointless since 236 will still give it 19 speed, but it's not a big deal.

EDIT: Two Shell Smashes puts Tirtouga at +4, not +3. Gates, learn to count you scrub.
EDIT2: After testing, there's not much else to say besides that. I lost one game to Unaware Wooper, but as far as things people actually play go there's nothing new to add.

 

[Adrima]

Thank you Gates !

You are right, Murkrow and Pawniard are very big threats for my team. I always have to tribute a mon in order to defeat them, if it's not 2 or 3... But I don't know what to change to deal with them. Mienfoo is an idea but I tested it before and it was quite a disaster... I prefer keeping the amazing power of Meditite instead of more bulk.

About Meditite, Thunder Punch over Ice Punch seems cool. It will help me to deal with bulky water types but I'm still hesitating because I will loose the plant and ground types coverage... I will test it for sure and tell you after. And about Bullet Punch... I used it before instead of Fake Out but I finally prefer the second one because even if it's super effective against Fairy, they don't take a lot of damages... So I keep Fake Out which is very useful to break Sash and Sturdy or to make OHKO easier !

And Waterfall over EQ... Why not ! I will just loose Electric and Steel coverage but it doesn't matter a lot since Electric is quite an unusually type in LC. But I will have more trouble against Pawniard... Will see !

So if you have idea to deal with Murkrow and Pawniard... And after test, Fighting types are also quite a threat ( Meditite, Mienfoo... ). Other ideas ?

EDIT: after some games, I stole the idea of one of my opponent and gave Nasty Plot to Misdreavus. She became a real threat to unprepared team !!! ( She killed my 6 mons when I faced her first :/ )

 

[Gates]

I understand your apprehension towards losing coverage of grass and ground types by giving up Ice Punch for Thunder Punch, but consider the usage stats.

The most common grass types are:
Ferroseed (weak to Drain Punch
Lileep (weak to Drain Punch)
Foongus (weak to Zen Headbutt)
Cottonee (sees less play at high levels than above three, neutral to Zen Headbutt, 4x weak to poison which makes a Foongus switch-in the best possible play)

These results are pretty favorable. It's worth noting that in addition to Foongus, all other Grass/Poison types (Bulbasaur, Bellsprout, Oddish, etc.) can also be hit for Super Effective damage by Zen Headbutt. If sun is up you will likely not be able to outspeed them, but if that is the case then you have a lot of other problems to worry about. One thing I glossed over is this team's relative weakness to weather. I largely ignored this because after the weather ability nerf, weather teams are few and far between and I have seen very few that are successful. I don't think it's enough of a problem to really worry about, but it is something you should at least be aware of since Vulpix was released from prison this gen.

The most common ground types are:
Gligar (banned)
Drilbur (LO SD Sand Rush is the only build that can OHKO you and it's a lot less common than it was last gen)
Onix (Normal Gem Explosion is the only thing that can OHKO you and barely has a chance to do so, I think you'll be fine)
Diglett (admittedly, you are screwed if your opponent runs Diglett against you, but it is potentially winnable due to Drain Punch recovery and/or Fake Out's Sash breaking potential)
Hippotas (ok, it's not that commonly used but I felt like I should include it cor completeness sake...anyway, the worst he can do to you is Whirlwind you since Drain Punch makes you able to race him)

So again, you're not missing out on much without Ice Punch.

You do have a point about Fake Out over Bullet Punch. With Swirlix banned there are few faeries that are weak enough to be taken out with a Bullet Punch, so Fake Out is good enough.

I don't agree with Nasty Plot over Heal Bell. It is more important to be able to heal burn/paralysis on your various physical attackers than to sweep with Misdreavus imo.

I don't have any particularly good solutions to Murkrow and Pawniard at the moment. I'll sober up and test some more and then let you know if I think of anything.

 

[Adrima]

Thanks for your reply !

You're right about Thunder Punch over Ice Punch. After test, I didn't miss it at all. I will keep it for sure !

About Misdreavus moveset, I agree I will miss Heal Bell but Nasty Plot allows me to counter Pawniard and Murkrow better. I don't know if I can change WoW for Heal Bell in order to have both... I will test this morning and tell you after...

EDIT: After test, it's sometimes difficult to set a Nasty Plot. So I will keep the old set.
EDIT 2: I have a lot of difficulties against Dwebble. It seems all the team play this annoying mon. My best counter is Pawniard with Knock Off but he can manage to set SR and a layer of Spikes so... And hazards make Tirtouga useless as a lot of Fighting mons can OHKO him after Sturdy has been broken...
I see two options: removing Tirtouga for something else, or finding a way to deal with Dwebble ( but I don't want my team to be weaker to Murkrow, Pawniard, Misdreavus... ) Ideas ?

 

[nmitchell890]

As someone with no experience of LC in XY, don't take my opinion too harshly.

In BW2, I used Chinchou as an effective counter to Murkrow. It was able to switch into Brave Bird and threaten with Discharge, without being too scared of Sucker Punch. As an added plus, Chinchou can provide Heal Bell support and free a moveslot on Misdreavus. You do lose out on an incredible sweeper in Tirtuga though. Is Foongus not an effective check to Pawniard with Spore? If not then my suggestion is Will-o-Wisp over Flame Charge on Ponyta. I doubt you use Flame Charge all that often (Ponyta needs to actually use Flame Charge in order to outspeed other boosted pokemon, by which point it has had to take a hit) while Will-o-Wisp gives Ponyta an opportunity to avoid Sucker Punch and cripple Pawniard.

These are the only points I could come up with. Good luck

 

[Adrima]

Hi nmitchell890 and thank you for your advices !

I tested Chinchou before and even if he could be quite powerful, I didn't like him so much... I don't even know why... I will test it another time for sure and I will tell you after.

WoW on Ponyta ? I didn't even know he could learn this move... Change already done ! I really needed an answer to Sucker Punch and it will be a perfect move for that. Thanks !

Other ideas ?

 

[Pancham]

Drop Return on Pony for Morning Sun, and definitely use Eviolite over Life Orb. I would also make your EVs more defenaive, meaning move some Atk into Def or HP.

 

[Adrima]

Hi ! Thank you Adam for your reply.

I agree Return is quite useless and Morning Sun is a good idea, need to test it ^^
About Eviolite and a more defensive repart, I love Ponyta as a revenge killer so... I think I will keep him like this.

Btw, I will do major changes to this team after Murkrow or Meditite ( or both why not... ) would be banned.

 

[Corporal Levi]

I absolutely support changing Ponyta to a defensive Eviolite variant; it is one of the premier counters to Pawniard, gives your team a fighting chance against Scraggy, and due to Ponyta's naturally high base attack, isn't much worse than LO Ponyta as a revenge-killer, either. LO Ponyta is not usually the best of sweepers due to being walled by popular Pokemon such as Chinchou and opposing Ponyta carrying Toxic. Corkscrew's analysis lists the defensive set as:
name: Eviolite
move 1: Flare Blitz
move 2: Morning Sun
move 3: Toxic / Will-O-Wisp
move 4: Sunny Day / Will-O-Wisp
ability: Flame Body
item: Eviolite
evs: 76 Atk / 236 Def / 196 Spe
nature: Jolly
This allows Ponyta to switch in on any of Pawniard's moves and spam Morning Sun to fish for a Flame Body burn.
If Pawniard is still an issue, consider running Hidden Power Fighting over Stun Spore on Foongus and changing the EV spread to 124 HP/160 Def/160 SpD to compensate for the lowered EVs (although you're not actually missing out on stats relative to your current spread); this way, Foongus can 2HKO opposing Pawniard while they are unable to 2HKO in return.
Your Tirtouga would do better to have its Special Defense EVs in Defense because most priority moves are physical, and at -1 you're taking the same damage from Croagunk's Vacuum Wave regardless of your SpD EVs, whereas 92 EVs in Defense will allow you to take other random priority attacks more easily.
Meditites and Pawniards almost always run either no speed at all or 196 Speed with a Jolly nature, meaning with your current spread, the given Speed EVs aren't all that useful; I would suggest either changing them to 196 Atk / 156 Def / 156 SpD with either an Adamant or a Jolly nature to hit eviolite numbers and have good mixed bulk, or 36 HP / 196 Atk / 76 Def / 196 Spe with a Jolly nature to outspeed or speed tie with more stuff.
Pawniard's EVs aren't optimal; moving 36 of the Defense EVs to Special Defense for a spread of 236 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD / 196 Spe would result in one more Special Defense point at no cost.
I'm not sure about this one, but is there anything in particular your Missy spread survives? The standard spread is 36 HP / 236 SpA / 236 Spe. This allows you a guaranteed OHKO on 0/0 evioliteless Murkrow with Dazzling Gleam, and always 3HKO Eviolite 0/36 Pawniard with Dazzling Gleam or usually 3HKO 0/116 Pawniard, all three of which 156 SpA does not do.
Good luck!

 

[Adrima]

Thanks Corporarl Levi for your help !

As two persons suggest Defensive Ponyta, I will test it for sure. Can be interesting if he manages to resist Pawniard, who is quite an issue for my team...

And about all the Reparts, changes are made. It's my first LC Team so I don't know very much how to have a good spread.

Others ideas ? ( Still waiting Murkrow to be banned ^^ )