It has been a while since my last thread, but here we are bop. In this thread, I will be attempting to rank the top 10 managers of all time. This is obviously going to be pretty subjective, since it is hard to really know what a manager brings to the table during the season. Of course, winning is extremely important, and is generally a good indicator of a manager's skills. Generally, drafting for tours like SPL and SCL is considered to be the primary way to evaluate a manager's strengths. World Cup managing skill is a bit more difficult to gauge; some teams, especially in the past, had figurehead managers who mostly did nothing. Hell, older SPLs had 4 managers LOOOL God knows how little some of them were doing. In general, though, I will be weighting SPL / SCL / Snake much more heavily than World Cup. I'm not a journalist, so I'm not going to be going around conducting interviews about manager experiences. My ranking will be based on the context I know from my long history on the site as well as the results that took place. It is also objectively harder to make a good team nowadays than it was a decade ago due to the all of the new rules and the banning of ghosting as a tactic. Managing can really be a mixed bag. One moment, you can be on top of the world like me in SPL 6, and in the next, you can be at the bottom of the table with one of the worst performing rosters of all time. Because of this, it was extremely hard to come up with the final spots of this ranking, but I do like my selections.
Honorable mentions:
From what I have seen, there are a lot of managers that have won or done very well in SPL / Snake / SCL who have either:
1. barely managed
2. have been involved in some scandal / idiotic maneuver
3. have been largely mediocre outside of that one result
4. have had dubious levels of contribution towards a team's success
Because of that, there are a lot of people you could throw in this section. I will be naming one who I think stands out, however.
d0nut
Yes, I am putting someone who has not won as a manager in honorable mentions. What d0nut has done, however, is make the playoffs in 3/4 SPL appearances. His worst performance as a manager came in SPL 13, where the team finished 6th and was knocked out of the playoffs in the final weeks of the season. He has consistently managed to put together solid rosters that can contend for the title. The team was quite frankly pretty insane on-paper in SPL 14, but a rather greedy tier swap in the semifinals may have doomed them. This does have to be held against d0nut to some extent, but I still respect his abilities. Quite frankly, if the Classiest made the finals, I would have definitely put him on the list.
10 & 9. TDK & obi
We start things off with the Jerk. The duo came agonizingly close to winning a ring yesterday, but Roro's plot armor had other ideas. TDK is incredibly consistent, having made the playoffs in seven consecutive SPLs, including two straight finals appearances as a manager. I do know that he was influential in the draft process for many of these teams, so that should also be taken into account in some capacity. The fact that he has not won an SPL trophy yet is honestly pretty insane. He also managed to make the finals of Snake 4, where his team again suffered a crushing loss. obi, meanwhile, did manage to capture a trophy with the Serpents in Snake 2, a feat made more impressive by the fact that he infamously did not even have a co-manager; he also made the playoffs in Snake 1. Both of these managers have also missed playoffs in Snake once each. It is hard to say who should be ranked higher between the two; obi certainly has better results, but I do find it hard to believe that he can support a team as much as someone who is as well versed in as many tiers as TDK is. TDK also was certainly more impactful in terms of drafting this season, as he notoriously almost single-handedly submarined the Tyrants season (although, one could also argue that this duo's failure to recognize their max bid should be held against them in some capacity). However, it is hard to deny how impressive obi's managerial resume is. Personally, I think that that these two have slightly better cases than the other individuals that are in contention for these spots.
8. makiri
I'm going to be honest; I have absolutely no idea where to rank makiri LOL He is the winningest SPL manager of all time, having won SPL 2, 5, and 7. However, MoP was almost certainly the driving force of two of those rosters. I cannot speak for the SPL 7 team, but I would imagine that M Dragon almost certainly provided more value to the team. It would feel a bit criminal to not put him on the list, though, considering that there really aren't many clear contenders for his spot. He did provide VGC / Doubles support in SPL 2 and 5, so I guess there's that. He also clearly understood his limits as a manager and did not try to force his will on teams when it was not needed; he understood his role and fully recognized what it took to win on the big stage. He helped foster a culture that was hellbent on winning, and helped create a franchise synonymous with the "victory at all costs" mentality that is certainly rare in these tournaments. For his successes, I will put him at 8th on this list, but you could definitely convince me to move him down. I think its a virtual toss-up.
7. Limitless
A true visionary, Limitless successfully managed to break the SPL system. While he was certainly not the first to try trading for retains, Limitless was the first to take full advantage of the power they provided. In SPL 4, he traded an astonishing 25.5k for the rights to retain Tamahome, Jorgen, Tiba, Poppy, and SilentVerse. No one has ever come close to trading this amount of money ever since. If the move failed, Limitless would have looked like a clown. However, despite some early struggles, the Wolfpack managed to rally and win the tournament. However, Limitless himself would not be rewarded with a trophy, as he was banned early on in the tournament for attempting to forcibly ghost one of his players (Jasonpwn). That being said, it was the Wild West, so I honestly am not even going to hold that against him LOL Everyone was ghosting anyway. The next season, the team was primed to repeat their title, as the team retained a record-setting 8 players and came into the auction with only 27k. They walked out of the draft with one of the greatest on-paper roster in SPL history, as they compiled a ridiculous 89 points in the Power Rankings and possessed top 3 players in almost every slot. Unfortunately, Limitless would never get his SPL trophy, as the Wolfpack were defeated by the Sharks in the SPL 5 semifinals. His short managing tenure should be held against him in some capacity, but personally, I just respect what he managed to achieve in his limited time. He helped turn his franchise into winners with his bold and revolutionary strategy, and that in itself is enough for me to put him on this list.
I would put a gap here. I think the top 6 is pretty cemented in my eyes, at least in terms of who belongs in it.
6 & 5. Tricking & Raiza
Back-to-back SPL wins have cemented both Tricking and Raiza as top 10 managers. Winning SPL twice as a manager is absurdly difficult to do. They won on the thinnest of margins, and did objectively have their fair share of good fortune in the finals this year. However, at the end of the day, the team did manage to somehow not collapse despite a slew of bans that should have shattered the ceiling of this team. Winning with a sub-100k roster in SPL should be legitimately impossible, but these two somehow managed to do it. Out of three SPL appearances, they managed to take home the trophy twice, and finish in 5th place in SPL 12. There is no denying that they know how to win in this tournament, and I am still in disbelief that they managed to win the trophy this season after all of the things that went against them. The team was dominant from the outset in SPL 14, and went 15-6 combined vs. the Ruiners in a matter of weeks. Tricking & Raiza are clearly good at identifying value players, highlighted by the extremely nice Jisoo selection that paved the way for their SPL 14 victory parade. They also seem to be key contributors to their team's successes based on the shoutout posts that I have read. The only thing keeping them from being higher on the list is their relative lack of other results. Raiza has only managed in SPL, while Tricking has managed Snake / SCL before, failing to make the playoffs on both occasions. Make no mistake, though, if these two perform even admirably in future SPLs, they can easily rocket their way up this list.
4. Stone_Cold
Dave is one of the hardest people to rank. He has an insane amount of team tour trophies, but most of them came from World Cup. Having played on East, I know how influential Dave was to some of the wins, especially in the early years of the team’s history. Dave was very directly responsible for making US East into the menace it was, gathering players and scouting at a time when it was far less common to do so. Even so, it is undeniable that the team was naturally blessed with some of the greatest talents in the history of the site year after year. The total SPL prices of peak US east would pretty much dwarf all other teams. In addition, Dave's SPL performances have left a lot to be desired. He did manage to make the playoffs in SPL 5 with the power of the PO armada featuring users such as soulgazer, kokoloko, and Afro Smash, but has not finished in the top 4 once since that occasion. He was also the first person to ever complete a retention trade, a maneuver which has been proven to be very valuable to a team's chances of success, so we have to give him credit for that. Many of his drafts have also failed to impress over this span, as players would continually write-off the BIGs year after year. Dave has shown an aptitude for SCL, however, as he managed to put together one of the most complete teams in the history of the site in SCL 1, and followed that up with a playoff berth in SCL II. He certainly possesses the intangibles necessary for victory, as his ability to motivate his players may be second to none. He has certainly won enough to be ranked at least this high, but because of the value I place upon SPL, I will rank him 4th for now.
3. MoP
The Master of Pokemon was a revolutionary figure who truly embodied the Wild West era of Smogon. One could argue that makiri could be up here due to his record-setting 3 managerial titles, but, based on my experiences with the goat franchise, I will be giving MoP the majority of the credit for the franchise's success during his time with the team. He was an expert at making you believe that you always had a chance of victory; no opponent was too great for a team of players to overcome. Ghosting is obviously heavily discouraged in the modern era, but back in the day, it was commonplace. No one mastered and employed the craft as effectively as MoP, however. The Sharks utilized every trick in the book to snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat on countless occasions. In four SPL managerial appearances between SPLs 2-5, MoP took home the trophy twice, and made the playoffs in SPL 4 to boot. If SPL 3 was not derailed by the infamous Ojama-Eternal situation, things may have looked differently on that front as well. He also acted as a manager many times in World Cup, and managed to make the playoffs with some pretty pedestrian rosters...that Asia 2015 team has to be one of the worst playoff teams of all time LOOL jesus we were fucking crust. There has never been a team that has quite mimicked the atmosphere and winning aura of an MoP-led franchise; he was a true leader. There is no one who I think represents the old era of Smogon more than him, and his successes land him at #3 on my list.
2. reyscarface
rey is the greatest drafter in SPL history. It is legitimately insane how consistent the man is at making teams that can contend for the title. He did miss the playoffs before his time on the Tyrants, but ever since he took the helm, they have been a true juggernaut. The Tyrants made the playoffs every single year between SPLs 9 and 13, a truly mind-boggling feat. It is much harder to make the playoffs that consistently than it is to win 1 trophy. The teams are also usually pretty dominant, coasting into the playoffs with ease. rey's drafts are always excellent, and they made me become a Tyrants believer year after year. The team was a disaster this year without rey's genius to guide them along, and I think that sums up how valuable his talents are in this field. Even last season, his team managed to dominate the regular season despite losing John W before any games were even played. All of that being said, rey has still somehow not managed to win an SPL trophy. I am honestly not sure how...surely one of his amazing teams would have been able to do so. That being said, I truly admire his consistency, and his ability to do it in an era where ghosting is not remotely as prevalent and retains are not nearly as broken makes his accomplishments even more impressive. His teams also performed admirably in World Cup. It should be noted, though, that his brief foray into the Snake Draft scene did not work out very well. His unfamiliarity with lower tiers coupled with the draft format was probably just too much of a hill for him to climb. At the end of the day, however, his SPL resume is ridiculously impressive. it takes some luck to win a trophy, and I just think that the coin has not been kind to rey over the years. rey is allegedly returning to the managing scene next SPL, something which I am very much looking forward to. But for now, I have enough respect for his abilities to put him at #2 on this list.
1. TonyFlygon
I don't think there will be any dispute on this one. Jerk-bias aside, Tony is, without question, the best manager of all time. He has won SPL twice, and managed to complete perhaps the most lopsided trade in SPL history as he snagged ABR from the Ruiners for basically peanuts compared to his true value, a move which essentially killed the retention trade mechanic for good. The SPL 9 Wolfpack, due in part to that trade, are also, in my opinion, the best SPL team ever created. He has made the playoffs three times in six appearances; his teams have also been fairly competitive even in the years where he did not make the playoffs. He has also been pivotal in Europe's solid performances in multiple iterations of World Cup, even thought the team has never taken the trophy. What cements Tony at the top, however, is his solid performances as a manager in the Smogon Snake Draft. It is pretty hard to be good at both SPL and Snake, especially with the draft format that was in place for the latter; it also requires knowing an entirely different group of players than one would have to know in modern SPL. While Tony never won Snake, he did manage to make it to the finals of both Snake 2 and Snake 4, and also had a top four team in Snake 3, missing the playoffs due to the rather peculiar format that was in place. Tony obviously isn't perfect; managing a team tour is very difficult, and sometimes, your reads on players will just be incorrect. Even some of the most consistent players have off tours on occasion. However, if you were to give the people in the tournament community a choice of any manager across history to lead them to the promised land, I do wholeheartedly believe that most of them would choose Tony. His claim to the throne may be under danger by rising challengers such as Tricking and Raiza, but for now, Tony's managerial successes land him at the coveted #1 spot on this list.
Honorable mentions:
From what I have seen, there are a lot of managers that have won or done very well in SPL / Snake / SCL who have either:
1. barely managed
2. have been involved in some scandal / idiotic maneuver
3. have been largely mediocre outside of that one result
4. have had dubious levels of contribution towards a team's success
Because of that, there are a lot of people you could throw in this section. I will be naming one who I think stands out, however.
d0nut
Yes, I am putting someone who has not won as a manager in honorable mentions. What d0nut has done, however, is make the playoffs in 3/4 SPL appearances. His worst performance as a manager came in SPL 13, where the team finished 6th and was knocked out of the playoffs in the final weeks of the season. He has consistently managed to put together solid rosters that can contend for the title. The team was quite frankly pretty insane on-paper in SPL 14, but a rather greedy tier swap in the semifinals may have doomed them. This does have to be held against d0nut to some extent, but I still respect his abilities. Quite frankly, if the Classiest made the finals, I would have definitely put him on the list.
10 & 9. TDK & obi
We start things off with the Jerk. The duo came agonizingly close to winning a ring yesterday, but Roro's plot armor had other ideas. TDK is incredibly consistent, having made the playoffs in seven consecutive SPLs, including two straight finals appearances as a manager. I do know that he was influential in the draft process for many of these teams, so that should also be taken into account in some capacity. The fact that he has not won an SPL trophy yet is honestly pretty insane. He also managed to make the finals of Snake 4, where his team again suffered a crushing loss. obi, meanwhile, did manage to capture a trophy with the Serpents in Snake 2, a feat made more impressive by the fact that he infamously did not even have a co-manager; he also made the playoffs in Snake 1. Both of these managers have also missed playoffs in Snake once each. It is hard to say who should be ranked higher between the two; obi certainly has better results, but I do find it hard to believe that he can support a team as much as someone who is as well versed in as many tiers as TDK is. TDK also was certainly more impactful in terms of drafting this season, as he notoriously almost single-handedly submarined the Tyrants season (although, one could also argue that this duo's failure to recognize their max bid should be held against them in some capacity). However, it is hard to deny how impressive obi's managerial resume is. Personally, I think that that these two have slightly better cases than the other individuals that are in contention for these spots.
8. makiri
I'm going to be honest; I have absolutely no idea where to rank makiri LOL He is the winningest SPL manager of all time, having won SPL 2, 5, and 7. However, MoP was almost certainly the driving force of two of those rosters. I cannot speak for the SPL 7 team, but I would imagine that M Dragon almost certainly provided more value to the team. It would feel a bit criminal to not put him on the list, though, considering that there really aren't many clear contenders for his spot. He did provide VGC / Doubles support in SPL 2 and 5, so I guess there's that. He also clearly understood his limits as a manager and did not try to force his will on teams when it was not needed; he understood his role and fully recognized what it took to win on the big stage. He helped foster a culture that was hellbent on winning, and helped create a franchise synonymous with the "victory at all costs" mentality that is certainly rare in these tournaments. For his successes, I will put him at 8th on this list, but you could definitely convince me to move him down. I think its a virtual toss-up.
7. Limitless
A true visionary, Limitless successfully managed to break the SPL system. While he was certainly not the first to try trading for retains, Limitless was the first to take full advantage of the power they provided. In SPL 4, he traded an astonishing 25.5k for the rights to retain Tamahome, Jorgen, Tiba, Poppy, and SilentVerse. No one has ever come close to trading this amount of money ever since. If the move failed, Limitless would have looked like a clown. However, despite some early struggles, the Wolfpack managed to rally and win the tournament. However, Limitless himself would not be rewarded with a trophy, as he was banned early on in the tournament for attempting to forcibly ghost one of his players (Jasonpwn). That being said, it was the Wild West, so I honestly am not even going to hold that against him LOL Everyone was ghosting anyway. The next season, the team was primed to repeat their title, as the team retained a record-setting 8 players and came into the auction with only 27k. They walked out of the draft with one of the greatest on-paper roster in SPL history, as they compiled a ridiculous 89 points in the Power Rankings and possessed top 3 players in almost every slot. Unfortunately, Limitless would never get his SPL trophy, as the Wolfpack were defeated by the Sharks in the SPL 5 semifinals. His short managing tenure should be held against him in some capacity, but personally, I just respect what he managed to achieve in his limited time. He helped turn his franchise into winners with his bold and revolutionary strategy, and that in itself is enough for me to put him on this list.
I would put a gap here. I think the top 6 is pretty cemented in my eyes, at least in terms of who belongs in it.
6 & 5. Tricking & Raiza
Back-to-back SPL wins have cemented both Tricking and Raiza as top 10 managers. Winning SPL twice as a manager is absurdly difficult to do. They won on the thinnest of margins, and did objectively have their fair share of good fortune in the finals this year. However, at the end of the day, the team did manage to somehow not collapse despite a slew of bans that should have shattered the ceiling of this team. Winning with a sub-100k roster in SPL should be legitimately impossible, but these two somehow managed to do it. Out of three SPL appearances, they managed to take home the trophy twice, and finish in 5th place in SPL 12. There is no denying that they know how to win in this tournament, and I am still in disbelief that they managed to win the trophy this season after all of the things that went against them. The team was dominant from the outset in SPL 14, and went 15-6 combined vs. the Ruiners in a matter of weeks. Tricking & Raiza are clearly good at identifying value players, highlighted by the extremely nice Jisoo selection that paved the way for their SPL 14 victory parade. They also seem to be key contributors to their team's successes based on the shoutout posts that I have read. The only thing keeping them from being higher on the list is their relative lack of other results. Raiza has only managed in SPL, while Tricking has managed Snake / SCL before, failing to make the playoffs on both occasions. Make no mistake, though, if these two perform even admirably in future SPLs, they can easily rocket their way up this list.
4. Stone_Cold
Dave is one of the hardest people to rank. He has an insane amount of team tour trophies, but most of them came from World Cup. Having played on East, I know how influential Dave was to some of the wins, especially in the early years of the team’s history. Dave was very directly responsible for making US East into the menace it was, gathering players and scouting at a time when it was far less common to do so. Even so, it is undeniable that the team was naturally blessed with some of the greatest talents in the history of the site year after year. The total SPL prices of peak US east would pretty much dwarf all other teams. In addition, Dave's SPL performances have left a lot to be desired. He did manage to make the playoffs in SPL 5 with the power of the PO armada featuring users such as soulgazer, kokoloko, and Afro Smash, but has not finished in the top 4 once since that occasion. He was also the first person to ever complete a retention trade, a maneuver which has been proven to be very valuable to a team's chances of success, so we have to give him credit for that. Many of his drafts have also failed to impress over this span, as players would continually write-off the BIGs year after year. Dave has shown an aptitude for SCL, however, as he managed to put together one of the most complete teams in the history of the site in SCL 1, and followed that up with a playoff berth in SCL II. He certainly possesses the intangibles necessary for victory, as his ability to motivate his players may be second to none. He has certainly won enough to be ranked at least this high, but because of the value I place upon SPL, I will rank him 4th for now.
3. MoP
The Master of Pokemon was a revolutionary figure who truly embodied the Wild West era of Smogon. One could argue that makiri could be up here due to his record-setting 3 managerial titles, but, based on my experiences with the goat franchise, I will be giving MoP the majority of the credit for the franchise's success during his time with the team. He was an expert at making you believe that you always had a chance of victory; no opponent was too great for a team of players to overcome. Ghosting is obviously heavily discouraged in the modern era, but back in the day, it was commonplace. No one mastered and employed the craft as effectively as MoP, however. The Sharks utilized every trick in the book to snatch victory out of the jaws of defeat on countless occasions. In four SPL managerial appearances between SPLs 2-5, MoP took home the trophy twice, and made the playoffs in SPL 4 to boot. If SPL 3 was not derailed by the infamous Ojama-Eternal situation, things may have looked differently on that front as well. He also acted as a manager many times in World Cup, and managed to make the playoffs with some pretty pedestrian rosters...that Asia 2015 team has to be one of the worst playoff teams of all time LOOL jesus we were fucking crust. There has never been a team that has quite mimicked the atmosphere and winning aura of an MoP-led franchise; he was a true leader. There is no one who I think represents the old era of Smogon more than him, and his successes land him at #3 on my list.
2. reyscarface
rey is the greatest drafter in SPL history. It is legitimately insane how consistent the man is at making teams that can contend for the title. He did miss the playoffs before his time on the Tyrants, but ever since he took the helm, they have been a true juggernaut. The Tyrants made the playoffs every single year between SPLs 9 and 13, a truly mind-boggling feat. It is much harder to make the playoffs that consistently than it is to win 1 trophy. The teams are also usually pretty dominant, coasting into the playoffs with ease. rey's drafts are always excellent, and they made me become a Tyrants believer year after year. The team was a disaster this year without rey's genius to guide them along, and I think that sums up how valuable his talents are in this field. Even last season, his team managed to dominate the regular season despite losing John W before any games were even played. All of that being said, rey has still somehow not managed to win an SPL trophy. I am honestly not sure how...surely one of his amazing teams would have been able to do so. That being said, I truly admire his consistency, and his ability to do it in an era where ghosting is not remotely as prevalent and retains are not nearly as broken makes his accomplishments even more impressive. His teams also performed admirably in World Cup. It should be noted, though, that his brief foray into the Snake Draft scene did not work out very well. His unfamiliarity with lower tiers coupled with the draft format was probably just too much of a hill for him to climb. At the end of the day, however, his SPL resume is ridiculously impressive. it takes some luck to win a trophy, and I just think that the coin has not been kind to rey over the years. rey is allegedly returning to the managing scene next SPL, something which I am very much looking forward to. But for now, I have enough respect for his abilities to put him at #2 on this list.
1. TonyFlygon
I don't think there will be any dispute on this one. Jerk-bias aside, Tony is, without question, the best manager of all time. He has won SPL twice, and managed to complete perhaps the most lopsided trade in SPL history as he snagged ABR from the Ruiners for basically peanuts compared to his true value, a move which essentially killed the retention trade mechanic for good. The SPL 9 Wolfpack, due in part to that trade, are also, in my opinion, the best SPL team ever created. He has made the playoffs three times in six appearances; his teams have also been fairly competitive even in the years where he did not make the playoffs. He has also been pivotal in Europe's solid performances in multiple iterations of World Cup, even thought the team has never taken the trophy. What cements Tony at the top, however, is his solid performances as a manager in the Smogon Snake Draft. It is pretty hard to be good at both SPL and Snake, especially with the draft format that was in place for the latter; it also requires knowing an entirely different group of players than one would have to know in modern SPL. While Tony never won Snake, he did manage to make it to the finals of both Snake 2 and Snake 4, and also had a top four team in Snake 3, missing the playoffs due to the rather peculiar format that was in place. Tony obviously isn't perfect; managing a team tour is very difficult, and sometimes, your reads on players will just be incorrect. Even some of the most consistent players have off tours on occasion. However, if you were to give the people in the tournament community a choice of any manager across history to lead them to the promised land, I do wholeheartedly believe that most of them would choose Tony. His claim to the throne may be under danger by rising challengers such as Tricking and Raiza, but for now, Tony's managerial successes land him at the coveted #1 spot on this list.
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