"The Team" [An OU RMT]

[Enroyalle]

Hey, people of Smogon. Just this morning my friend BlazinKickinChicken and I created an OU team that we specifically named "The Team". That's basically all I have to say...

Enjoy.

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At A Glance:

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Team Building Process:

Right off the bat we knew we'd need a solid lead start off The Team. Looking around in QC and whatnot I found an Anti-lead Rotom set that was rejected. However, I found it very interesting and wanted to try it. Rotom-W here has worked out fantastically so far.

Next we needed a sleep absorber that can take on Roserade, who Rotom loses to. We picked Heatran for its offensive capability and great defensive typing.

A bulky water should be a staple on every team, and ours is no exception. We needed something to take on opposing Water-types that can't reliably be handled by Rotom. We chose Offensive Cune for its surprise factor and surprising capability.

Just by looking at our team, an idea popped up. "Toxic Spikes would work amazingly!" And so they do. With the semi-stally nature of our team, they've proven useful, as has Forretress' defensive abilities and Rapid Spin support. And having a Pokemon with Explosion adds a bit of comfort in tricky situations.

"WHAT? NO ROCKS?" Obviously we needed SR support, as well as a special wall to cope with our various physical tanks. Blissey fit the description nicely, and also provides our team with Aromatherapy support, which is a nice plus.

Looking at our team, we have a Blissey problem. SubPainSplit Gengar could beat the pink menace every time, and the extra speed was an immense help.

However, after playtesting, we found that we STILL couldn't beat Blissey. We needed a reliable physical attacker, and Gengar wasn't cutting it. We found that we couldn't fix the team by replacing just one Pokemon, so we ditched Blissey too.

Losing Blissey meant losing SR. So, after changing a bit around, we settled with this: ResTalk Heatran changed to Lead ShucaTran (only not a lead), and we put Metagross as our sleep absorber. Metagross handles Roserade nicely, as well as being a threat to Breloom. With the EV spread we have, Metagross always survives DD Mence's +1 EQ and OHKOes in return with Ice Punch. We still wanted an even physical/special balance, and we needed speed, so CB Azelf solved our dilemma in that scenario.

And now, without further ado, here's our team: in-depth!

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The Squad:

OxiClean (Rotom-W) @ Colbur Berry
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 136 Def / 32 SpA / 88 Spe
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp

Rotom-W starts things off with a BANG and gets my momentum going. I've found to be a very effective anti-lead (and by that I don't mean preventing rocks; I mean KOing the opposing lead while taking little/no damage). Here's how I roll:

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Azelf: Thunderbolt on their SR to break the Sash and hope for parahax, then finish it off with Shadow Ball. If no parahax, take a Psychic that fails to KO, then finish it with Shadow Ball.

Aerodactyl: Thunderbolt on the SR / Taunt, hope for parahax. Finish it with Shadow Ball. If Taunt + no parahax, finish it as they set up SR. If SR + no parahax, easily take a Rock Slide and finish it off.

Swampert: WoW on the Rocks, then either fire away with Shadow Ball or go to Forry to get up my TSpikes.

Metagross: WoW on the SR, if Lum, Hydro Pump on the switch to Heatran. (You have no idea how many times I've done this, it seems people like to use Heatran and Metagross together.) If no Lum, spam TBolt after WoWing.

Jirachi: WoW. If the SR, great, that thing can't do much now. If U-Turn, something not named Heatran or Infernape gets burned, which is always nice. If they Trick, that's fine, Rotom never minds a Scarf.

Infernape: TBolt on the Rocks, hope for parahax (again, rofl, obviously I don't have to do this, but this way I'm doing more than just breaking the Sash). If parahax, finish it. If no parahax, live the Overheat and finish it or go to Cune to take it and work from there.

Machamp: WoW to wreck the Lum as their Payback doesn't do squat thanks to Colbur Berry, and depending on how I'm feeling either WoW again or predict a switch and attack.

Roserade: Switch to Metagross to take the sleep and fire off some Meteor Mashes and Ice Punches by using Sleep Talk.

Tyranitar: WoW as they Pursuit / Crunch / Payback / whatever for fail damage (once again, thanks Colbur Berry!), if they used a move other than Pursuit, go to Cune or Forry to set up TSpikes, if Pursuit, stay in and Hydro Pump.

Gliscor: Hydro Pump on the SR / Taunt. Bye.

Heatran: Hydro Pump + Tbolt on their Rocks + Fire Blast. This is why I use Rotom-W with Hydro Pump rather than Rotom-H with Overheat.

Hippowdon: WoW on the SR, then fire off some Hydro Pumps as they fail to do significant damage to me.

Honestly I love how this works out, I can KO almost every lead with ease. Although it may have lost some health and (unfortunately) doesn't have a recovery move, Rotom can come back in late-game to take on Scizor, Metagross and friends.

SYNERGY:
Dark: Heatran, Forretress
Ghost: Heatran, Forretress

HotTempered (Heatran) (M) @ Shuca Berry
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Stealth Rock

Reliably sets up SR. Honestly that's the main point of this guy. Because most people lead with ShucaTran and therefore don't have it mid/late-game, I can bluff a Scarf coming in later. HP Grass is useful against Swampy, but I'm considering Explosion for when I'm in trouble. Plus, who doesn't love going out with a literal EXPLOSION? Heatran also serves as a ScarfTran check and does well against CB Scizor and Metagross, too, provided they're not locked into Superpower and Earthquake, respectively.

SYNERGY:
Water: Suicune, + Rotom helps
Fighting: Rotom, Azelf
Ground: (Shuca Berry) Rotom, Azelf, + Suicune helps

Suikun (Suicune) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 60 HP / 252 SpA / 196 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Ice Beam

Ah, yes, Offensive Cune. Love it. For some strange reason people thing Gyarados is a good switch in to Cune, by all means, go for it! I'll be happy to take them out with an HP Electric. The power Suicune packs is really useful, combined with its natural bulk and fantastic typing, this thing is hard to stop after a CM or two. Switches into Heatran with relative ease, and takes on Gyarados and Mence quite nicely, if you ask me. Most people expect the mono-attacking CroCune, so this thing's got a nice surprise factor to it as well. I've used it with success.

New EV spread: Outspeeds +Spe Heatran and neutral Luc.

SYNERGY:
Grass: Forretress, Heatran, Metagross
Electric: Rotom

Turret (Forretress) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Atk / 144 Def
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spe)
- Toxic Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Gyro Ball
- Explosion

Ah, those ever-useful Toxic Spikes. They help me take on Blissey and other defensive threats, and with the lack of grounded Poison-types in OU as well as Rotom-W's spinblocking ability, they're usually up for the whole game. Despite not having a ridiculous SR weakness, Rapid Spin support is always a plus. Gyro Ball from such a slow Pokemon does more damage than you would expect to many offensive threats. And I've already mentioned Explosion's potential. Forretress is further backup to Metagross, Scizor and the like as well as DD Mence lacking Fire Blast.

SYNERGY:
Fire: Heatran, Suicune

Gross Metal (Metagross) @ Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Atk / 164 Def / 76 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Meteor Mash
- Ice Punch

My sleep absorber. Takes on Breloom pretty well thanks to bulk and Sleep Talk, and survives +1 DD Mence's Earthquake while OHKOing with Ice Punch. Even with a lack of Atk EVs, Metagross still packs a punch. Does well against Ttar, but Flamethrower/Fire Blast hurts, as it hits Metagross' weaker specially defensive side. Metagross is pretty solid, and my team really doesn't fear Heatran, who can take on my Metagross for years.

New EV spread: Rather useless Spe EVs thrown into SpD for more bulk to combat special attackers.

SYNERGY:
Fire: Heatran, Suicune
Ground: Rotom, Azelf

An Elf! (Azelf) @ Choice Band
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
- Trick
- Explosion

A slightly altered version of CB Azelf, to pack both Trick and U-Turn. Azelf is a fantastic scout and finishes off many Pokemon. A hard hit on the omnipresent Celebi is welcome anywhere, too. Trick screws up so many walls it's hilarious; I've ruined plenty. Zen Headbutt is my obligatory STAB move, and its flinch chance coupled with Azelf's high speed has proven useful. Azelf draws in Blissey, who assumes a Nasty Plotter, and gets smacked ridiculously hard with a physical move. Oh, right, and how many times have I mentioned Explosion in this RMT?

SYNERGY:
Dark: Heatran, Forretress
Ghost: Heatran, Forretress
Bug: Heatran, Forretress, Rotom

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A Last Glance:

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Heh, that was fun, albeit it took me awhile to make... ._.

Constructive criticism is appreciated greatly. Thanks for reading!

 

[Scimjara]

Hello ARandomBoy,

Seeing colbur berry anti lead rotom doesn't impress me one bit. Even after reading you're "quote" I'm not sold. Because it doesn't stop rocks from being set up nor does it set up rocks.

I would advise you to stop using that uninteresting anti lead and use cb-zelf as you're lead since that does in fact stop rocks from being set up. While having adamant nature you ohko heatran and metagross with explosion and aerodactyl only being the pokemon that outspeeds you and sets up rocks but most of the time would taunt. Which let's you u-turn into forretress.

You're team is easily weak to lucario seeing how you run a useless metagross set that's resisted by most bulky waters and other steels and you should switch that to rest talk rotom. You should try using agility gross or even choice banded to deal a great amount of damage to you're opponent

GL with you're team.

 

[Enroyalle]

Hello ARandomBoy,

Seeing colbur berry anti lead rotom doesn't impress me one bit. Even after reading you're "quote" I'm not sold. Because it doesn't stop rocks from being set up nor does it set up rocks.

I would advise you to stop using that uninteresting anti lead and use cb-zelf as you're lead since that does in fact stop rocks from being set up. While having adamant nature you ohko heatran and metagross with explosion and aerodactyl only being the pokemon that outspeeds you and sets up rocks but most of the time would taunt. Which let's you u-turn into forretress.

You're team is easily weak to lucario seeing how you run a useless metagross set that's resisted by most bulky waters and other steels and you should switch that to rest talk rotom. You should try using agility gross or even choice banded to deal a great amount of damage to you're opponent

GL with you're team.

Thanks for the insight. But preventing Rocks isn't my goal with my lead, as I stated above. My goal is to take out their lead. I have a Rapid Spinner 0 SR weaknesses, so it is in no way a priority. Also, if I'm forced to explode on Heatran and the like first turn, Azelf is gone and I have very little speed on my team, and I lack a scouter and the ability to cripple the opponent with Trick. I've found Rotom to work fine as a lead, as you can see from the matchups, I don't have any specific trouble.

As for your Lucario bit, Rotom is one of the best Lucario counters in the game. It can cripple it with WoW and smash it with Hydro Pump. If it's down, Suicune outspeeds the more common Adamant Luc and can finish it with a Surf. No one really expects Cune to be faster, so they don't ESpeed. Forretress can always blow up on it, and Metagross can still hit a chunk off it with a Meteor Mash. I can't be bothered to do a calc to see if Azelf can live a +2 ESpeed, but if I can that's another option.

Anyway, thanks for reading and considering. I appreciate the response.

 

[Man On The Moon]

If their lead is a suicide then they won't care if rotom knocks them out while setting up stealth rocks

 

[Enroyalle]

If their lead is a suicide then they won't care if rotom knocks them out while setting up stealth rocks

I'm aware of that. They don't care. I do. It's one less Pokemon to deal with. If I can get an Azelf out of the game early, by all means, I'll do it. Especially because it can't blow up against Rotom, and that's probably the scariest thing Azelf can do.

 

[corncake22]

First off I really like this team because you have some creativity and not just a normal team of one of the top 6 pokemon all in one team so well done.

Rotom W- Interesting lead but Colbur berry is just plain useless on Rotom. Sure you might survive crunchs and paybacks from tyranitar and machamp but tyranitar's will get WoWd (unless you are slower then tyranitar) first and will be a waste of a item. I didn't run calculations but since your faster then the standard new anti lead payback will do more. WoW is not a good thing to use first on a lead machamp and will be just wasting your Colbur berry for there lum. And WoW is not a guarenteed hit and payback will be. So you are gambling but as long as you can take 2 paybacks the resisted payback from the colbur berry and the following payback its fine.

Heatran- Nice and standard nice way to set up rocks and still be a effective attacker.

Suicune- Max speed is good allowing you to outpace base 80's and outspeeding neutral natured base 85's and tieing with the max base 85's. You can't really outspeed anything besides other suicune and there are hardly any base 85's so you could opt for a 40hp/252SpA/216speed spread.

Fortress-Nothing wrong with Fortress but be caution with infernapes as prediction will destroy you. Same goes for salamence. Or any mixed attacker as a matter of fact that can hit both fortress,heatran,and suicune. Infernape hits all 3 at least neutrally. This is another reason why a bulkier spread can help suicune.

Metagross- WOW crazy tazy spread. I guess this is your bulky sleep absorber. Looks great on paper but yeah if it works out for you well its good. Also just becareful with sleep talk as the luck on that move is ridculously unlucky for the most part espically when you are sleeping and mence is setting up.

Azelf- Interesting yet again. CB Azelf Scouter. First off with your slight DD mence weak at late game you could go for a scarf one. It might not pack that extra punch to it but it sure is fast and can counter +1 mence effectively with explosion or trick while it sets up. Also unless Azelf can 2hko blissey with Zen Headbutt that makes even a better reason to go to scarf. If it is a 3HKO blissey will toxic or t-wave ruining your azelf.

Overall nice team and very unique and different. Don't change it all too bog down standard or this team won't be "The Team" it will be the "Stupid Standard Noob Team" (Bad joke there)

Good luck and I hope I helped ;D

 

[Enroyalle]

First off I really like this team because you have some creativity and not just a normal team of one of the top 6 pokemon all in one team so well done.

Rotom W- Interesting lead but Colbur berry is just plain useless on Rotom. Sure you might survive crunchs and paybacks from tyranitar and machamp but tyranitar's will get WoWd (unless you are slower then tyranitar) first and will be a waste of a item. I didn't run calculations but since your faster then the standard new anti lead payback will do more. WoW is not a good thing to use first on a lead machamp and will be just wasting your Colbur berry for there lum. And WoW is not a guarenteed hit and payback will be. So you are gambling but as long as you can take 2 paybacks the resisted payback from the colbur berry and the following payback its fine.

Heatran- Nice and standard nice way to set up rocks and still be a effective attacker.

Suicune- Max speed is good allowing you to outpace base 80's and outspeeding neutral natured base 85's and tieing with the max base 85's. You can't really outspeed anything besides other suicune and there are hardly any base 85's so you could opt for a 40hp/252SpA/216speed spread.

Fortress-Nothing wrong with Fortress but be caution with infernapes as prediction will destroy you. Same goes for salamence. Or any mixed attacker as a matter of fact that can hit both fortress,heatran,and suicune. Infernape hits all 3 at least neutrally. This is another reason why a bulkier spread can help suicune.

Metagross- WOW crazy tazy spread. I guess this is your bulky sleep absorber. Looks great on paper but yeah if it works out for you well its good. Also just becareful with sleep talk as the luck on that move is ridculously unlucky for the most part espically when you are sleeping and mence is setting up.

Azelf- Interesting yet again. CB Azelf Scouter. First off with your slight DD mence weak at late game you could go for a scarf one. It might not pack that extra punch to it but it sure is fast and can counter +1 mence effectively with explosion or trick while it sets up. Also unless Azelf can 2hko blissey with Zen Headbutt that makes even a better reason to go to scarf. If it is a 3HKO blissey will toxic or t-wave ruining your azelf.

Overall nice team and very unique and different. Don't change it all too bog down standard or this team won't be "The Team" it will be the "Stupid Standard Noob Team" (Bad joke there)

Good luck and I hope I helped ;D

Thanks, that's a big help. :)

Rotom - I see what you're saying about Colbur. I'll try it with Leftovers and see how it works out.

Heatran - Yup. Simple.

Suicune - My only question - does that outspeed neutral natured base 90s, like Lucario? I'm curious.

Forretress - Yeah, Ape is dangerous. But even with a lack of investment Cune is quite bulky, + Azelf can outspeed and easily OHKO with Zen Headbutt.

Metagross - Haha, actually it's on Metagross' analysis page right now. It's worked out all right for me. Usually I try to save him until I KNOW that they don't have a Mence. Sleep Talk doesn't really like me though, I keep getting Rest. :/

Azelf - I'll definitely try Scarf. The extra speed is a big plus.

Thanks for reading and for the insight, I really appreciate it! :)

 

[corncake22]

Oh yeah go with the spread you orignally had for suicune. 4hp/252Special Attack/252speed. I was thinking of Jolly Luke so you had no purpose for max speed so in other words keep your spread.

Glad to know I helped and giving me feed back. I hate when I rate someone's team and they ethier don't answer or the thread is never posted on again. :s

Good Luck on your team!

 

[Delko]

Few nitpicks:

- If you want to get parahax more often try Discharge on Rotom.

- Bulkier offensive Cune spread: 172 HP / 112 SpA / 224 Spe

 

[Deathjester]

You do have a bit of Lucario weakness, i think that you'd have quite a lot of trouble dealing with a Anti-Lead Lucario.

It should 2HKO your Rotom with Crunch, unless you have the berry. Even if you do hit it with WoW.

I'm suprised at how many people don't even look at what poke you're starting with.
They just assume you'll try and do something irrellavent, the number of times i've used Lucario as an antilead and my opponent has opened with taunt...

In the same instance you're assuming that when faced with an anti lead your opponent WILL still stealth rock (unless it's a suicide lead). Seriously, your expecting someone facing you to be the idiot an waste a turn taunting your Rotom? I wouldn't be suprised if you face up to more than a few people running Azelf who open with a STABed Psychic to your face, then repeat to finish you off. Allowing them to setup Stealth Rocks against whatever else you bring in to try and replace it as a lead.

Ok some people will walk right into it, but most of them are using their Azelf as a suicide lead and don't care about what happens to it.
It irks me when many people don't realise that all lead pokemon are not just about setting up stealth rocks and dying unless that's what the team needs.

You talk about the default motions that people go though and don't consider the other options.

Great you're Rotom with 3 attacking moves and 1 status move can beat the idiot who taunts you.... Why am i not suprised?

Baton pass teams also look like they could cause you a significant amount of troubles. You're missing any kind of Haze or Switching effect.

And assuming Ninjask as an opener (that would be a new one), they Sub/protect/swords dance and with 2 Speed Boosts everything they pass in should out-pace your entire team.

 

[Enroyalle]

Few nitpicks:

- If you want to get parahax more often try Discharge on Rotom.

- Bulkier offensive Cune spread: 172 HP / 112 SpA / 224 Spe

I'll definitely try Discharge. Thanks.

Only question about the spread - does it outspeed Adamant Lucario?

 

[Enroyalle]

You do have a bit of Lucario weakness, i think that you'd have quite a lot of trouble dealing with a Anti-Lead Lucario.

It should 2HKO your Rotom with Crunch, unless you have the berry. Even if you do hit it with WoW.

I'm suprised at how many people don't even look at what poke you're starting with.
They just assume you'll try and do something irrellavent, the number of times i've used Lucario as an antilead and my opponent has opened with taunt...

In the same instance you're assuming that when faced with an anti lead your opponent WILL still stealth rock (unless it's a suicide lead). Seriously, your expecting someone facing you to be the idiot an waste a turn taunting your Rotom? I wouldn't be suprised if you face up to more than a few people running Azelf who open with a STABed Psychic to your face, then repeat to finish you off. Allowing them to setup Stealth Rocks against whatever else you bring in to try and replace it as a lead.

Ok some people will walk right into it, but most of them are using their Azelf as a suicide lead and don't care about what happens to it.
It irks me when many people don't realise that all lead pokemon are not just about setting up stealth rocks and dying unless that's what the team needs.

You talk about the default motions that people go though and don't consider the other options.

Great you're Rotom with 3 attacking moves and 1 status move can beat the idiot who taunts you.... Why am i not suprised?

Baton pass teams also look like they could cause you a significant amount of troubles. You're missing any kind of Haze or Switching effect.

And assuming Ninjask as an opener (that would be a new one), they Sub/protect/swords dance and with 2 Speed Boosts everything they pass in should out-pace your entire team.

Honestly I only saw Lead Luc once while tesing this team, and that time it was pretty troublesome. However, if I do keep the Colbur Berry, the first Crunch will do little, and after I burn it, they'll all do little.

It seems to me most Azelfs just like setting up SR. After that, sometimes they switch out to try to blow up on something later. But some don't really care, they just attack afterward. I don't think I've actually had an Azelf Psychic at me right off the bat, but if I do I'll be sure to post the results.

True about the Baton Pass bit. I don't have a lot. But I'm not sure who to put Roar on.. Heatran, maybe? Or do you have a specific replacement that you think would help?

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Delko]

Only question about the spread - does it outspeed Adamant Lucario?

Yes.

 

[Enroyalle]

Yes.

Great. I'll try it out then.

 

[Enroyalle]

Using my bump.

 

[Delko]

Hello again

I would also like to add that you can give Metagross Earthquake preferably over Rest or Ice Punch (you can still be a sleep absorber without Rest) because SD Lucario could cause you some serious problem. Rotom makes a decent enough check but if you lead with him you'll risk loosing him early on. And the rest of your team is rather frail (Azelf) or can't do anything in return (Forretress).

 

[Enroyalle]

Hello again

I would also like to add that you can give Metagross Earthquake preferably over Rest or Ice Punch (you can still be a sleep absorber without Rest) because SD Lucario could cause you some serious problem. Rotom makes a decent enough check but if you lead with him you'll risk loosing him early on. And the rest of your team is rather frail (Azelf) or can't do anything in return (Forretress).

That's actually a neat idea. I'll try it.

 

[Michurro]

Ok please... some people are totally trolling on your rotom... maybe people don't realize no guard on champ makes wow 100% accurate -.- I love the idea. Honestly you shouldn't need to worry about baton passing leads or an anti lead luke (wth?). Keep colbur berry because it will serve as more of a check to champ and tar.

It seems like you might have a weakness to mixape. The only true counter is azelf. And most of the time nape has a pursuit partner. None of them mind being tricked a choice band and all you can do is blow up. A choice specs starmie can do many of the same things and DOES cripple common switch ins. It can't scout like azelf, but if you wanted a pure revenger, scizoor would obviously fit better. Of course you have a huge fire weakness and many players expect a heatran and foretress combo. Starmie can take out most threats wit specs power.

Meh, your metagross set is gimmicky and did you ever think about if mence switched in and used fire blast instead of eq? Your gross is crippled and if he uses meteor mash its over. Agiligross maybe? It can't immediatl switch in on mence but you have cune and starmie to deal the dragons. After Agility it becomes a useful asset to your team. Having eq would help patch up the fire weakness too

 

[Delko]

but you have cune and starmie to deal the dragons.

Sorry, but you took a wrong look as he doesn't have Starmie.

 

[Enroyalle]

It seems like you might have a weakness to mixape. The only true counter is azelf. And most of the time nape has a pursuit partner. None of them mind being tricked a choice band and all you can do is blow up. A choice specs starmie can do many of the same things and DOES cripple common switch ins. It can't scout like azelf, but if you wanted a pure revenger, scizoor would obviously fit better. Of course you have a huge fire weakness and many players expect a heatran and foretress combo. Starmie can take out most threats wit specs power.

Yeah, MixApe is a pain honestly. Azelf does do pretty well, I can always U-Turn out to scout for a Tyranitar or something of the sort if I feel he's gonna switch. I'll consider SpecsStarmie and test it out a bit. Thanks. :)

Meh, your metagross set is gimmicky and did you ever think about if mence switched in and used fire blast instead of eq? Your gross is crippled and if he uses meteor mash its over. Agiligross maybe? It can't immediatl switch in on mence but you have cune and starmie to deal the dragons. After Agility it becomes a useful asset to your team. Having eq would help patch up the fire weakness too

"Gimmicky"? How in the world is a solid ResTalk Metagross set "gimmicky"? I don't understand that bit of logic. IIRC Metagross can live a Life Orb'd Fire Blast from MixMence. I'm talkin' living +1 LO EQ from DDMence. Some DDMence run Fire Blast for Skarmory and Skarmory only, at +1 Atk most players will use physical attacks.

Offensive Cune can't take on Mence that well, and SpecsStarmie is outsped after a DD and can be taken out appropriately.

And what's this nonsense about a fire weakness...? Yes, I have a 4x weakness (Forry) and a 2x weakness (Gross). But I believe that's offset by an immunity (Tran) and a solid resist (Cune).

Anyway, thanks for the rate, I'll give SpecsStarmie a try.