The Everything NFL Thread - 2009

[theamericandream38]

I'm a lifelong Bills fan, so if you're going to talk about downtrodden cities/fans and title droughts, you might want to include us.

I have told tad repeatedly that seeing the Bills in a championship game, let alone the playoffs, would give me an immeasurable boner. Nothing the Vikings ever do will be good enough for him, so I suggest again that everyone just ignores him and his trolling from now on.

The Bills were #3 on that list I linked to (the Sabres were #9 as well), and if the Vikings could actually win a Super Bowl (hint: they can't) that would be good enough for me.

Also, I'd like to touch on the "The Vikings will never be as bad as the Cubs" comments. Here's the thing: the Vikings have existed for less than half the amount of time that the Cubs have, and they've already had just as many, if not more vomit-inducing moments. As the article I linked to pointed out, the worst of these moments seem to come every 10 years: the Hail Mary (1975), Darren Nelson (1988), Gary Anderson (1998), and 12 men (2009). As you may notice, NONE of these terrible occurences happened during one of the four Super Bowls the Vikings have lost, which shows how truly heartbreaking each one of these games was. This is even further evidenced when you consider that each of the Vikings' four Super Bowl losses came in embarassing fashion.

 

[WaterBomb]

Every team disappoints from time to time. I don't mind you being pessimistic about your team. What bothers me is your flagrant verbal abuse. Ok, so your team disappoints you alot. Your team might be one of the top "disappointing" teams in football. That still shouldn't justify insulting them constantly, ESPECIALLY when they are your alleged favorite team. Sounds more like they're your LEAST favorite team the way you talk about them.

In any case, just because they disappoint you constantly and blow amazing opportunities, it doesn't make them "shit" or "the worst team in football". To jump to that extreme is quite simply ignorance. I don't think any sports fan has a right to say their team is the most disappointing team in history, because there is no real measure for it, just a bunch of speculation and opinion. If you want a pity party, go somewhere else.

 

[CaptKirby]

Mostly for MrE, not like Bill Simmons is some savant but he was angry with me in the chat about this

"9:18: They're showing replays of Lance Moore's 2-point conversion. I've seen this rule called both ways and there's no rhyme or reason to it -- sometimes they give it to the receiver, sometimes they play the "no, he didn't keep possession for long enough when he hit the ground" card. It really depends on the game and which team the NFL wants to win. You can't tell me differently."

tad, there is just no point in being a sports fan if you do not enjoy it. You do not know what is going to happen; the Vikings could win next year with old man Favre at the helm. Anything is possible, just not necessarily likely.

DM, on a list of things that would lead you to suicide, where would the Bills making it and losing to an NFC East team again rank (I do not think you could get a boner in this situation either!!)

 

[Steeler]

about the 2 point conversion

i find it funny how the announcers were making it seem like the defender accidentally tripped over the ball. that was as obvious as it could be. not that i blame him, i would have done the same.

 

[DM]

DM, on a list of things that would lead you to suicide, where would the Bills making it and losing to an NFC East team again rank (I do not think you could get a boner in this situation either!!)

Not counting the Cardinals now that they're West, there is only one team left... Super Bowl XLV, Bills vs. Eagles!

 

[CaptKirby]

Losing to the Cardinals would have been worst of all, I think. The Cowboys, Eagles, Redskins, and Giants are all in something like the top 14 wins all time, top 13 postseason all time...the Cardinals are the fucking Cardinals!

I do not think the Eagles deserve to win a Super Bowl for at least a couple generations due to how they treated McNabb, but the poetic nature of them beating the Bills would be kind of incredible.

 

[yek0p]

... But the Vikings stomped on the so called hottest team in football by 31, and out played a Saints team by holding them to under 80 yards in the second half at their home field. They did lose that game, but I still like this team over most others in the NFL

The Vikings didn't "outplay" the Saints and only an uneducated fool thinks that. Maybe outgained them, but certainly didn't outplay them. Losing and committing five turnovers isn't outplaying anyone. If you honestly think the Vikings will be just as good next season with Tarvaris Jackson/Sage Rosenfails, then you have problems.

Anyways, Super Bowl XLIV proved that Manning shouldn't have won MVP, wasn't the best quarterback this season, and definitely not the best quarterback of the 2000's.

LOL. This statement alone shows all that needs to be said about your football intelligence. Are you kidding me? If a team doesn't even try to run the ball, then the opposing defense can just sit back and play pass defense all day. I don't think you understand something: the defense has a massive advantage against the offense if they know what the offense is going to be doing. The offense only has 5 players that they can use as targets (unless they want to use a linemen as a receiver), while the defense can use all 11 men in coverage if they so choose.

O RLY?

Top ten rush offenses, their record, and their passing offense's ranking:

1. Jets, 9-7, 31
2. Titans, 8-8, 23
3. Panthers, 8-8, 27
4. Dolphins, 7-9, 20
5. Ravens, 9-7, 18
6. Saints, 13-3, 4
7. Cowboys, 11-5, 6
8. Browns, 5-11, 32
9. Bengals, 10-6, 26
10. Jaguars, 7-9, 19

-5/10 made the postseason
-5/10 were .500 or below
-Only 2/10 had double digit wins, but neither rushing offense are in the top five!

Top ten passing offenses, their record, and their rush offense's rank:

1. Texans, 9-7, 30
2. Colts, 14-2, 32
3. Patriots, 10-6, 12
4. Saints, 13-3, 6
5. Chargers, 13-3, 31
6. Cowboys, 11-5, 7
7. Packers, 11-5, 14
8. Vikings, 12-4, 13
9. Steelers, 9-7, 19
10. Eagles, 11-5, 22

-8/10 made the postseason
-8/10 had double digit wins.
-0/10 were .500 or below
-2/10 had a top ten rush offense
-Excluding the Saints and Cowboys, only 3/10 had a top fifteen rush offense.
-6/10 were division winners.

Establishing the run is dead.

 

[Lakers]

The Vikings didn't "outplay" the Saints and only an uneducated fool thinks that. Maybe outgained them, but certainly didn't outplay them. Losing and committing five turnovers isn't outplaying anyone. If you honestly think the Vikings will be just as good next season with Tarvaris Jackson/Sage Rosenfails, then you have problems.

Anyways, Super Bowl XLIV proved that Manning shouldn't have won MVP, wasn't the best quarterback this season, and definitely not the best quarterback of the 2000's.

Their D only held the best offense to 70 yards in the second half.... but yeh they certainly didnt outplay them. Half those fumbles werent even caused by the Saints D. Carelessness by the Vikings caused at least 2 of those fumbles, and both benefited the Saints. PS: Farve isnt retiring. The guy goes through this every year, and hes coming off his best season ever with a team he can continue to work with. To be honest, only a Saints fan would say what you just said in your above post

 

[yek0p]

Their D only held the best offense to 70 yards in the second half.... but yeh they certainly didnt outplay them...Half those fumbles werent even caused by the Saints D...Carelessness by the Vikings caused at least 2 of those fumbles

and both benefited the Saints.

Wait, there are times when getting the ball back doesn't benefit you?

PS: Farve isnt retiring. The guy goes through this every year, and hes coming off his best season ever with a team he can continue to work with.

The Vikings are not going to win the Super Bowl with Favre. He's proven over and over again that he's an overrated choke artist that is a liability, not an asset, in the postseason.

To be honest, only a Saints fan would say what you just said in your above post

Only Vikings fans say what you say. The moral of the game is if you turn the ball over and have Brett Favre as the starting quarterback in the postseason, you will lose.

 

[Lakers]

You just totally went off point.... You said the Vikings didnt outplay the Saints, when even a blind person wathing the game could see they did. How am I making excuses? I havent argued against the fact they fumbled 5 times. My point is that the two biggest fumbles were caused by the Vikings carelessness. Please tell me how the Saints caused the botched handoff by Farve to AP? They didnt.... pretty much the same case with the Percy Harvin screen play. Instead of just covering the ball he tried for yardage and easily lost it. The Saints... had 70 yards total offense in the second half!!! I doubt they were going to score without that fumble that gave them easy field position... Why do you bother arguing this anyway? The seasons over, nobody cares about football anymore

 

[theamericandream38]

Top ten rush offenses, their record, and their passing offense's ranking:

1. Jets, 9-7, 31
2. Titans, 8-8, 23
3. Panthers, 8-8, 27
4. Dolphins, 7-9, 20
5. Ravens, 9-7, 18
6. Saints, 13-3, 4
7. Cowboys, 11-5, 6
8. Browns, 5-11, 32
9. Bengals, 10-6, 26
10. Jaguars, 7-9, 19

-5/10 made the postseason
-5/10 were .500 or below
-Only 2/10 had double digit wins, but neither are in the top five!

Top ten passing offenses, their record, and their rush offense's rank:

1. Texans, 9-7, 30
2. Colts, 14-2, 32
3. Patriots, 10-6, 12
4. Saints, 13-3, 6
5. Chargers, 13-3, 31
6. Cowboys, 11-5, 7
7. Packers, 11-5, 14
8. Vikings, 12-4, 13
9. Steelers, 9-7, 19
10. Eagles, 11-5, 22

-8/10 made the postseason
-8/10 had double digit wins.
-0/10 were .500 or below
-2/10 had a top ten rush offense
-Excluding the Saints and Cowboys, only 3/10 had a top fifteen rush offense.
-6/10 were division winners.

Establishing the run is dead.

The four teams that I bolded are the only teams that you can honestly say did not establish the run. Did I ever say that a team had to run as many times as they throw the ball (or anything even close to that)? No, I did not. My post was made in response to a comment of yours that said NFL teams should never even attempt to run the ball, and only throw it. Look where that got the Colts! The Saints had a balanced offense, and they rightfully won that game.

The moral of the game is if you turn the ball over and have Brett Favre as the starting quarterback in the postseason, you will lose.

Don't be stupid. Brett Favre has won a Super Bowl in his career, which is more than most quarterbacks can say. The reason the Vikings lost the game was because they are named the Vikings and are from Minnesota, not because they had Brett Favre. Need I remind you of the countless other times that the Vikings have lost in important games? Brett Favre was on none of those teams, and yet they all failed in spectacular fashion, exactly as this year's team did.

 

[yek0p]

You said the Vikings didnt outplay the Saints, when even a blind person wathing the game could see they did.

Committing five turnovers and losing does not equal outplaying. Learn common sense.

My point is that the two biggest fumbles were caused by the Vikings carelessness. Please tell me how the Saints caused the botched handoff by Farve to AP? They didnt.... pretty much the same case with the Percy Harvin screen play. Instead of just covering the ball he tried for yardage and easily lost it.

Who cares how a turnover is created? What were the Saints supposed to do, not take advantage of the opportunity when it's given to them? Plus, how can you argue the Vikings outplayed the Saints when the Vikings' were careless?

The Saints... had 70 yards total offense in the second half!!!

Vikings didn't give up yards, Saints created turnovers. We're equal.

The seasons over, nobody cares about football anymor

1. You said something completely wrong.
2. Yeah, no one cares about free agency and the draft.

The Saints had a balanced offense, and they rightfully won that game.

The Saints run game did absolutely nothing in the Super Bowl.

Brett Favre has won a Super Bowl in his career, which is more than most quarterbacks can say

Wow, one Super Bowl win, which was over a decade ago, in a 19 year career. What has Favre done in the postseason since?

The reason the Vikings lost the game was because they are named the Vikings and are from Minnesota, not because they had Brett Favre.

Yeah, let's completely ignore this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCRFlrx82no

Need I remind you of the countless other times that the Vikings have lost in important games?

Irrelevant. I wasn't discussing past Vikings teams.

 

[theamericandream38]

Yeah, let's completely ignore this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCRFlrx82no

Yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that they had 5 other turnovers, only 1 of which Favre was partially involved in. Let's also ignore the fact that the Vikings should have never needed to attempt that pass: if Brad Childress could coach a fucking game of football, they would have done one of the following:

1. Run the ball on all 3 downs and settled for a longish field goal attempt.
2. Throw the ball on 1st or 2nd down WHEN THE SAINTS WOULD LEAST EXPECT IT instead of waiting until 3rd down, calling a timeout, then receiving easily the most baffling penalty of all time: the Vikings had twelve men in the huddle... AFTER A FUCKING TIMEOUT.

You seem to want to pin the entire loss on Favre, which is a horrible mistake. You should pin the loss on the Vikings as a whole, and I sincerely hope you were not surprised that they lost. You are quite right about one thing, however: the Vikings will not win a Super Bowl with Favre on their team, nor will they win a Super Bowl with any player on their team. So long as the Minnesota Vikings exist, they will NEVER win a Super Bowl. It is simply a statistical impossibility.

Wow, one Super Bowl win, which was over a decade ago, in a 19 year career. What has Favre done in the postseason since?

He has done more than any quarterback except for: John Elway, Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees
(read: he has done more than any non-Super Bowl winning quarterback)

 

[YTP]

Yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that they had 5 other turnovers, only 1 of which Favre was partially involved in. Let's also ignore the fact that the Vikings should have never needed to attempt that pass: if Brad Childress could coach a fucking game of football, they would have done one of the following:

1. Run the ball on all 3 downs and settled for a longish field goal attempt.
2. Throw the ball on 1st or 2nd down WHEN THE SAINTS WOULD LEAST EXPECT IT instead of waiting until 3rd down, calling a timeout, then receiving easily the most baffling penalty of all time: the Vikings had twelve men in the huddle... AFTER A FUCKING TIMEOUT.

You seem to want to pin the entire loss on Favre, which is a horrible mistake. You should pin the loss on the Vikings as a whole, and I sincerely hope you were not surprised that they lost. You are quite right about one thing, however: the Vikings will not win a Super Bowl with Favre on their team, nor will they win a Super Bowl with any player on their team. So long as the Minnesota Vikings exist, they will NEVER win a Super Bowl. It is simply a statistical impossibility.



He has done more than any quarterback except for: John Elway, Kurt Warner, Trent Dilfer, Tom Brady, Brad Johnson, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees
(read: he has done more than any non-Super Bowl winning quarterback)

Just like you actually supporting your team :/

 

[yek0p]

Anyone with average football knowledge knows that quarterbacks are often told to NOT throw across their body like Favre did. Had Favre done the right thing and scrambled, which he could have gotten at least five yards out of considering the room he had, it would have been a roughly a 50 yard kick for Longwell. Not a gimme, but it's a better chance than a 55 yarder.

 

[Lakers]

You seriously need to learn what the word "outplay" means. A Team can outplay another team and still lose. You obviously know nothing and need to learn what it means. What does being careless have to do with the Saints? They had no effect on the farve botched handoff. Thats 7 points if Farve isnt careless. Thats also a W for the Vikings. Stop being ignorant and learn your stuff. Also, the draft isnt for another month or two... NOBODY CARES ABOUT FOOTBALL RIGHT NOW. This is the most dead time of the year for football. The most cared about story is if Farve is coming back or not. But yeh everybody cares ab out football right now

 

[yek0p]

out·play (out-pl

)tr.v. out·played, out·play·ing, out·plays To surpass (an opponent) in skill or technique or in scoring points.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/outplayed

 

[HeroMasaki]

You know that list about the Rushing/Passing statistics? It only proves one thing - the offense needs to be balanced to win in this league. Unless your QB's name is Peyton Manning or Tom Brady pre-marriageinjury.

I'd say "even then, the Saints beat the Colts when it mattered", but the Colts outrushed the Saints by a hell of a lot lol.

And who gives two shits about the Vikings outgaining the Saints? It was a miracle that they were so close to victory WITH 5 turnovers.

Matt Schuab "out gained" every QB in the league. Does this make him the best QB this year?

Favre "out gained" every QB ever. Does this mean he is best QB of all time?

Cmon guys seriously, stop putting so much stock into the big numbers.

 

[yek0p]

Even balance is overrated.

-Texans had their first winning season in spite of having the 30th ranked rush offense.
-Colts could have went 16-0 even though their rush offense was in last place.
-Chargers were 13-3 in spite of having the 31st rush offense.
-Saints offense was balanced, but improvements in their defense is what got them over the hump.

 

[Lakers]

out·play (out-pl

)tr.v. out·played, out·play·ing, out·plays To surpass (an opponent) in skill or technique or in scoring points.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/outplayed

"The Knicks outplayed the Lakers"

^^^ That is the example of a sentence they gave..... How can I take you serious when thats the example they give? -________________________________________-

My point of mentioning yards is to point out how the Vikings were outplaying them, holding the leagues best offense to practically nothing in the second half. Plus, blowing it out of proportion with the Matt Scuab comparison is dumb. If the Vikings played the Saints 10 times id say the Saints definitely win and outplay the Vikings in more games. My point is that the Vikings outplayed them that game, even if they lost.

 

[yek0p]

"The Knicks outplayed the Lakers"

^^^ That is the example of a sentence they gave..... How can I take you serious when thats the example they give? -________________________________________-

Good point, you can't outplay anyone in a fixed league.

My point is that the Vikings outplayed them that game, even if they lost.

If you commit five turnovers, you did not outplay the opponent. It was a dead even game that could have went either way. No one got "outplayed".

Anyways, if the Saints can get a a solid nose tackle (either Vince Wilfork or Terrance Cody in realistic situations), they have the tools to become a dynasty. Their only glaring weakness is their rush defense and a giant nose tackle can fix that.

 

[Lakers]

Good point, you can't outplay anyone in a fixed league.

You can say that for any sport since they all are controlled by referees.... The NBA is just the only one that got caught so far

 

[yek0p]

I'm probably not going to watch a single game next season anyway.

 

[Steeler]

You can say that for any sport since they all are controlled by referees.... The NBA is just the only one that got caught so far

what are you guys referring to?

 

[DM]

This is easily one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen.