Ape bullies stall hard even without tera.Now obviously some Pokémon’s are so strong they’ll be banned in any Tera or non Tera meta
but if Tera were restricted, and all Tera types were disclosed at team previews…
Then these would probably be worth suspecting:
- dolphin man: you’ll be able to know if your among us is actually able to check it or not (if it’s a grass resist Tera), or if you’re going to have to keep the pressure on it all game (water Tera)
- espathra: it’s much easier to deal with it when you know if it’s relying on fighting or fire type Tera blast, or whether it’s the standard fairy
- annihilape: it’s strong, but there’s lots of hard hitters that out speed it, and you’ll know if you can or not based on its chosen Tera type
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fini is coming back? Or any of the Tapus.I'm hesitant on this one because I get that people think it's going to be handled easier with HOME powercreep, but really, what new checks do we get besides Tapu Fini, which doesn't even have recovery?
oof i didn't see that. Just more points in favor of keeping cheems-pao bannedCorrect me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Fini is coming back? Or any of the Tapus.
Exactly how I interpreted it, I hope this is the way it works secretlyHere's how I'm interpreting the move relearner scenario:
1. You have a lv.60 Weavile in Scarlet, you teach it Ice Spinner (TM), but you then delete it for Icicle Crash. Its moves are: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Swords Dance, Night Slash
2. You send it to HOME, then to Sword.
3. Its moves get reset to their Sword level-up set: Night Slash, Screech, Nasty Plot, Fling. You're prompted if you want to replace those with any of its level up moves, you replace NP with Ice Shard, Screech with Assurance.
4. You have a Night Slash, Ice Shard, Assurance, Fling Weavile in Sword.
5. You replace Fling for Triple Axel
6. You send it to HOME, then to Scarlet again.
7. Its moves get replaced by standard level-up again (Night Slash, Screech, Nasty Plot, Fling), but you're offered to relearn Ice Spinner (since taught TM moves are in their relearn sets in G9)
8. You do, play a bit, send it back to HOME and then to Scarlet.
9. Moves are wiped again to same level-up set, but now Triple Axel can be relearned (for Sword only).
I sincerely doubt you'll be able to transfer in... transfer moves into SV. HOME would need to do a double check for legality status for tourneys/Battle Stadium and whatnot which is just extra work that benefits no one but nerds who collect transfer moves. At best this is a QOL improvement cutting out the Battle Tower wiper, Pokémon Center relearner (SS) or Pastoria move relearner (BDSP) or Zisu's move shop (PLA) middlemen and not force you to respend in-game resources to re-unlock these moves like it's currently doing.
Hopefully the standard SS move relearn sets include those that came from Bank (e.g. Knock Off Weavile) if they had those originally but I could see it go either way and just force the deletion if they were brought into G9 and then back.
I issue caution to whomever is dreaming of transfer moves in SV because I truly doubt it. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
It's palafin, it'll do what it does best.im gonna sound dumb for asking this, but why keep it banned?
Except this doesn't make sense because it makes the point of a move learner/relearner pointless. If they wanted mons to operate based on learn sets for individual games, they'd simply have it work like it did between the gen8 games just updated for gen9 included. A move learner/relearner doesn't really have a purpose this way. Also, the move relearning is done through HOME, not separately in games. So that sort of works against your idea.Here's how I'm interpreting the move relearner scenario:
1. You have a lv.60 Weavile in Scarlet, you teach it Ice Spinner (TM), but you then delete it for Icicle Crash. Its moves are: Ice Shard, Icicle Crash, Swords Dance, Night Slash
2. You send it to HOME, then to Sword.
3. Its moves get reset to their Sword level-up set: Night Slash, Screech, Nasty Plot, Fling. You're prompted if you want to replace those with any of its level up moves, you replace NP with Ice Shard, Screech with Assurance.
4. You have a Night Slash, Ice Shard, Assurance, Fling Weavile in Sword.
5. You replace Fling for Triple Axel
6. You send it to HOME, then to Scarlet again.
7. Its moves get replaced by standard level-up again (Night Slash, Screech, Nasty Plot, Fling), but you're offered to relearn Ice Spinner (since taught TM moves are in their relearn sets in G9)
8. You do, play a bit, send it back to HOME and then to Scarlet.
9. Moves are wiped again to same level-up set, but now Triple Axel can be relearned (for Sword only).
I sincerely doubt you'll be able to transfer in... transfer moves into SV. HOME would need to do a double check for legality status for tourneys/Battle Stadium and whatnot which is just extra work that benefits no one but nerds who collect transfer moves. At best this is a QOL improvement cutting out the Battle Tower wiper, Pokémon Center relearner (SS) or Pastoria move relearner (BDSP) or Zisu's move shop (PLA) middlemen and not force you to respend in-game resources to re-unlock these moves like it's currently doing.
Hopefully the standard SS move relearn sets include those that came from Bank (e.g. Knock Off Weavile) if they had those originally but I could see it go either way and just force the deletion if they were brought into G9 and then back.
I issue caution to whomever is dreaming of transfer moves in SV because I truly doubt it. But I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
Why would you want it the way they theorized it to work.Exactly how I interpreted it, I hope this is the way it works secretly
Hot take, I think Tornadus is mid now if it loses gen 7 moves. Losing Knock Off & Defog are insane blows to its utility & will give it a much harder time contributing reliable and meaningful progress vs the opponent's team. Its still fast, but relying on Hurri-miss somewhat undercuts that advantage when damaging the opponent is always a roll. Bleakwind Blight is a decent upgrade from Hurricane imo since its technically stronger on average (80 BP on BB vs 77 on Hurricane) but its still not ideal. Rocky Helmet + Regen is still valuable utility & I think it'll be an OK NP sweeper w/ Tera, but I don't think it will be the same reliable Pokemon it was last gen.Zapdos, tornados and landorus are about to become meta
so, there’s a good chance weavile and Garchomp will become so meta rn too. They have great matchups against those. Landrous v Garchomp is a slight exception, but only slight.
loaded dice + scale shot or icicle spear on the aforementioned will also be interesting to see.
chien pao is likely going to feast if let back in. Curious to see if kingambit gets banned with STAB knock off, you’re always making progress against tusk, who gets to switch in significantly less.
some poor takes hereI made 4 Boxes to analyze each Pokemon and here are all the Pokepastes. Made this before the Tier List thing came up.
eaknesses, though those weakness still exist and are prominent. Whether its UU or OU, we'll have to see, but it'll still be great in OU anyways.
Eh. Even in the event it lost utility like defog/knock (unlikely given what we know), it would still be a nice defensive pivot for checking stuff that is big in the meta. Rocky Helmet if you want an alternative. and NP sets would be great offensive options. Don't underestimate what the mon is capable of. A simple U-turn/bleakwind/heat wave/focus blast set for pivoting would be goodHot take, I think Tornadus is mid now if it loses gen 7 moves. Losing Knock Off & Defog are insane blows to its utility & will give it a much harder time contributing reliable and meaningful progress vs the opponent's team. Its still fast, but relying on Hurri-miss somewhat undercuts that advantage when damaging the opponent is always a roll. Bleakwind Blight is a decent upgrade from Hurricane imo since its technically stronger on average (80 BP on BB vs 77 on Hurricane) but its still not ideal. Rocky Helmet + Regen is still valuable utility & I think it'll be an OK NP sweeper w/ Tera, but I don't think it will be the same reliable Pokemon it was last gen.
The "point" of the mechanic as described is so that you don't need to spend extra resources on getting a move you already taught the Pokémon in a previous game.Except this doesn't make sense because it makes the point of a move learner/relearner pointless. If they wanted mons to operate based on learn sets for individual games, they'd simply have it work like it did between the gen8 games just updated for gen9 included. A move learner/relearner doesn't really have a purpose this way. Also, the move relearning is done through HOME, not separately in games. So that sort of works against your idea.
The reason it works this way between other games and PLA is because PLA literally has fewer moves, and the lack of an updated legality checker for those different moves they don't normally get in other games. It's not done for convenience sake.The way HOME currently works with transfers between SwSh, BDSP and Legends, moves learned in each game are completely independent.
Also not sure why yourye talking matter-of-factly when we don't even have concrete details on how the feature works, or if move resets apply to SV. Because we DONT have any confirmation on that for SV. It happening between BDSP/PLA and when transfered from either to SwSh is a result of what I described above. What you're describing as an idea is an unnecessary feature because it wouldn't need to exist if supposed move resets didn't exist (which leaks suggest they don't).The purpose of the new feature is to recognize when a Pokémon has already learned a move in a previous game and account for that, provided it's a move that's still intended to be in the Pokémon's toolkit.
Like: "you already spent a Plot TM on Rotom in BDSP? Perfect, let's make a note of that - it can learn that in SV as well, so we'll make it more convenient to keep that." It's nothing more than a bit of QOL to address the inconvenience that came with the already-established movepool resets on transfer.
You just acknowledged they haven't allowed transfer moves in VGC since gen6, despite them being usable for casual play and casual versus. So why are you...It's worth bearing in mind that transfer moves haven't been allowed in official competitive formats since Gen VI. As far as the official games are concerned, the only meaningful loss from cutting them off like BDSP and Legends already did was the inconvenience of having to spend resources on teaching the same move over and over when it was going to be allowed anyway. That's the issue this update is meant to address; of course they're not going to make new features to make the very same moves they chose to disallow more accessible to their players...
...then acting like these moves being accessable easily for casual play makes an impact on official comp when they were already not going to be legal? It was like this last gen. Transfer moves persisted but couldn't be used casually. There's no reason it wouldn't be the same here. This isn't a balance change because it doesn't affect VGC to begin with. Just casual play.But the fact is that Game Freak very obviously took them away because they didn't agree with you or me on that - they wanted to remove or limit their distribution. So like, why do so many people think they're going to start making new features to help you add them to your Pokémon? Right after establishing that they didn't want those Pokémon learning these moves any more??
Fundamentally, move distribution changes are balance changes. They're buffs and nerfs, whether to individual Pokémon or on a metagame-wide level if a lot of Pokémon lose a move at the same time.
What you're asking, then, is for them to make an intentional game balance change and... then say "oh, but we're only nerfing this for our new players; if you were already using the thing before we nerfed it, you're exempt from the rules and can go on using it while no one else is allowed." Why do so many people think that's how it's supposed to work?
No one expects legacy moves to be relevant in official formats. But casual pvp is not something they are balancing around and they're not making changes to a casual pvp setting.But like, expecting legacy moves to be relevant in PvP was always conceptually stupid and it's not at all hard to see why they're taking firmer stances on them lately.
This goes double as they experiment with the loss of the National Dex and outright deleting moves so Pokémon and move availability become more and more distinct from game to game - even more so when we start to throw in games like Legends, where they're nominally "part of the main series" but have a wildly different core set of mechanics and a ton of moves that don't even do the same things. It's not an accident that they started more explicitly limiting transfer moves right when they started making these game-to-game shifts more significant.
Hah, I was about to reply but you said just about everything I was planning to.Snip