Hey! You might wanna ask this in the Simple Questions Simple Answers thread, this thread is for more detailed analysis, but fwiw, I have been enjoying Poison Touch Sneasler way more than Unburden. I think it's a solid pivot with decent utility.
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Metagame SV OU Metagame Discussion v2 [Update on Post #5186]
- Thread starter TPP
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Any Sneasler set that actually uses it for its kit beyond the Match-up/Noob Bait that is Dire Claw gets a thumbs up from me. U-Turn Poison touch is interesting because it turns one of Sneasler's bigger issues (breaking past the tier's typical Bulky Pokemon) into both a momentum grab and a chance to wear several answers down itself. With Toxic having seen a massive reduction in users, normal Poison has a bit more breathing room as the "Passive Damage" status, at least to the extent of being a benefit instead of "shoot now I can't Toxic/Burn them" if it procs on most teams. Not sure if Fake Out is that big a deal but U-Turn with Poison Touch definitely seems like it could yield results as an early-mid Game pivot with cleaning potential for late-game.
Among things that could switch reasonably into Sneasler's STABs, Great Tusk, Bax, Dragapult, Zapdos, Zama-Hero, Moltres, Tera'd Ting-Lu and Lando-T all definitely hate the idea of Poison Chip from the regular hits, much less from the turn in which they already got read and were pivoted on. It's also less than welcome on Gholdengo and Dondozo, who don't like being pushed to sink momentum into a recovery turn any sooner than they can possibly stretch to.
The two biggest thorns in Sneasler's side with a set like this are Amoongus (Gunk Shot is a 25% chance to 2HKO without Hazards from full, nothing else touches it) and Glowking (no surprise there), but KOing everything isn't the job of a Pivot set anyway and any good team in this OU needs something to hit Poison types and ESPECIALLY Glowking.
Among things that could switch reasonably into Sneasler's STABs, Great Tusk, Bax, Dragapult, Zapdos, Zama-Hero, Moltres, Tera'd Ting-Lu and Lando-T all definitely hate the idea of Poison Chip from the regular hits, much less from the turn in which they already got read and were pivoted on. It's also less than welcome on Gholdengo and Dondozo, who don't like being pushed to sink momentum into a recovery turn any sooner than they can possibly stretch to.
The two biggest thorns in Sneasler's side with a set like this are Amoongus (Gunk Shot is a 25% chance to 2HKO without Hazards from full, nothing else touches it) and Glowking (no surprise there), but KOing everything isn't the job of a Pivot set anyway and any good team in this OU needs something to hit Poison types and ESPECIALLY Glowking.
I've tried Poison Touch abuse on a double Hex team (Dragapult and Skeledirge), wasn't great but it was a lot of fun.
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Everything else you said is spot-on except for this imo
Fake out is definitely a big deal for this set because it lets you counterlead Hsamu with fake out to break sash+kill with CC. Outside of that, it's generally not awful speed control, and it increases ur chances of applying poison. If I was to lead with this sneasler (shocker, I know) and my opponent leads zapdos (another shocker), I have fake out+u-turn=2 chances for poison touch to proc rather than just 1 chance (I u-turn immediately). Given that half the fun of this set is abusing poison touch, fake out is definitely a good choice on paper and in practice.
I will say, this set is not splashable. It wants pivots to get it in, it wants hazards to synergize with the volturn, and it wants the correct wallbreaker to abuse the mons that it is bringing in. But on the right teams it is a really strong set.
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Said I wasn't sure, this confirms why I should be sure, so thanks for the confirmation. The idea of Sneasler leading off didn't cross my mind but given what Spikes are like, dealing with Hamurott before Ceaseless Edge puts Spikes down would easily be worth a moveslot (hell in some cases a TEAM slot).
I also have always been fuzzy on how Fake Out works past Turn 1 for switches which probably influenced it: I forget sometimes if Fake Out works if the user enters mid-turn instead of "before" a turn off a faint (i.e. how something fainting to recoil or Explosion in Gen 4 onward "whiffs" the opponent's attack for the turn to avoid Spin for example). If Sneasler always gets Fake Out off its first entry turn, that would indeed be powerful for more Poison procs.
Hoopa-U sits in a really awkward speed tier. Base 70 is fast enough to break walls, minus Great Tusk, but Stall always runs some Dark Tera types and Fairy types to vex Kingambit and Stored Power mons (often Dondozo), which makes Hoopa’s breaking capabilities difficult despite its massive attacking stats.
I’ve found it fits best either as a surprise Trick Room cleaner or on deticated Trick Room teams. Its anti-screens and anti-Sub Hyperspace Fury lend itself very well to the normal TR counter play, and it mauls Offense once its speed issue is rectified.
While I would prefer to use Life Orb, I feel like Iron Ball is justified and Tera Dark to ensure you outspeed Kingsgambit in TR and resist Sucker Punch, while also making HSF a nuke. ZH clobbers Great Tusk and Toxapex, while Brick Break or Drain Punch can round out your coverage for Kingambit and other Dark types and have utility in breaking screens or longevity.
Hoopa-Unbound @ Iron Ball
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt
- Brick Break / Drain Punch
- Trick Room
I’ve found it fits best either as a surprise Trick Room cleaner or on deticated Trick Room teams. Its anti-screens and anti-Sub Hyperspace Fury lend itself very well to the normal TR counter play, and it mauls Offense once its speed issue is rectified.
While I would prefer to use Life Orb, I feel like Iron Ball is justified and Tera Dark to ensure you outspeed Kingsgambit in TR and resist Sucker Punch, while also making HSF a nuke. ZH clobbers Great Tusk and Toxapex, while Brick Break or Drain Punch can round out your coverage for Kingambit and other Dark types and have utility in breaking screens or longevity.
Hoopa-Unbound @ Iron Ball
Ability: Magician
Tera Type: Dark
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Hyperspace Fury
- Zen Headbutt
- Brick Break / Drain Punch
- Trick Room
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KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Im almost certain that Fake Out will always work on the mon's first turn it can do moves, which is either after a faint, or after a switch. It works for First Impression, so it should definitely work for Fake Out.
Also, there's almost no way aside from the stray Lum to heal status these days, unless revival blessing spam makes a return, so spreading free consistent chip is always nice.
It works on the first full turn the user is on the field
I find it simplest just to think of it as “works if it’s the first move you clicked since this Pokémon entered the battlefield”
Goodbye & Thanks
Thrown in a fire?
In addition to what the other users have said, I'll try to specifically address what I think you were talking about with Fake Out failing. Even if the move "whiffs" or fails for any reason, like if the opponent sacs a mon to hazards or something, as is done to prevent Spin or Beast Boost in previous generations, it still counts as Fake Out being clicked, so you can't Fake Out again the next turn. This is a fairly common interaction in VGC where if a mon gets hit with a faster Fake Out and flinches, they can't go for Fake Out the following turn, even though they really didn't do anything during their first turn on the field. So, it can all be simplified to Fake Out only works if it's the first action selected for a Pokemon during the first turn that it is on the field prior to switching out - you can repeatedly bring out a mon throughout a game and use Fake Out as its first attack after it switches in, which is also very common in SM with Mega Medicham and Mega Lopunny. Idk how it works in game if you do something like use an item during the first turn that a mon is on the field but that obviously isn't relevant for competitive battling.
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I think I might've accidentally created the greatest team of all time. Since wcop is over now Imma leak this gem that I originally prepared for finals.
https://pokepast.es/801e5c061ab311c0
Here are some great replays to show how strong this team really is
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924891074-2zrzteta31m7w0u9s8kweus5pp3la93pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924903876-4ay0oxdwb67wqp6xhhp1dvhynfy4vtcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924913086-7rqr1axxcn601qpkfdoxu7f7qurr8agpw
Maybe we should suspect test smoliv instead of a perfectly balanced pokemon like Kingambit...
https://pokepast.es/801e5c061ab311c0
Here are some great replays to show how strong this team really is
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924891074-2zrzteta31m7w0u9s8kweus5pp3la93pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924903876-4ay0oxdwb67wqp6xhhp1dvhynfy4vtcpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9ou-1924913086-7rqr1axxcn601qpkfdoxu7f7qurr8agpw
Maybe we should suspect test smoliv instead of a perfectly balanced pokemon like Kingambit...
the smoliv is bait i get that part but what unholy concoction is that Bish set
KamenOH
formerly DynamaxBestMeta
Why smoliv specifically? What drove you to such oily depths as to use this oddball?
10/10 build, and I love the originality but lets be real there's no viability to Rock Polish Garganacl.
It's not about viability. It's about sending a message.
“some men aren't looking for anything logical, like
LoseToRU? More like LoseToLC
Bisharp only gets rocks and 2hit ko's great tusk and dondozo with grass knot, max HP so you get more damage with metal burst.
Because Smoliv is the greatest Pokemon of all time. Can't believe noone has used it yet
There's so many questions I have about this photo
it's one of life's great mysteries.
Tbh Moltres. Heatran is good into some Poisons like Slowking, but Moltres better MU vs Fighting-Types and more notably, Ground-Types like Great Tusk is more Important IMO. U-Turn and Roost are also pretty big tools Heatran doesn't have.
Just wanted to say that after playing OLT for 3 cycles now. Not banning gambit is easily top 5 worst decisions that I've seen on this site tiering wise. I genuinely believe that voting do not ban was just coping because of how unbalanced this tier is and that DLC is coming out. So many games come down to sucker punch mind games and "oh man will gambit tera". Its honestly so annoying how not okay this mon is and the best way to even the playing field is just using it yourself. This is definitely a mald post because I question the decision making out of those who voted do not ban. The only positive point to be made is that we will hopefully have a significant metagame shift in a month but as it stands right now gambit is way too over-centralizing and in general is just a brain dead mon that promotes too many skill-less 50/50s that can swing a game regardless of if you played worst. Most games, even if you get painfully outplayed, if you save gambit and tera you may have a chance, which is seriously concerning and says a lot about the current state of the tier.
This is the part that always felt completely insane to me. Sure, Gambit might only give you a 10-20% chance to win the match when you're down 1v5 but
like
even that is ridiculous?
The odds might be low, but they shouldn't be anywhere near that high! I don't understand how anyone could be okay with a mon like Kingambit being more than an occasional fluke in their ladder grind.
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