Resource SV OU Indigo Disk Viability Ranking Thread

[malomyotismon]

Hi council man here, seems theres been a ton of discussion on the D Tiers and i would like to put some of my own thoughts here too since i really enjoy very niche mons.



D tier

Very alright wall breaker, i thought the rise of balance would bring life to this mon but it frankly just doesntdo enough damage. Choice band struggles againts hazards and still folds to a lot of common defensive mons like gliscor, garg and alo while being extremely easy to play around, even dragapult gives it hell. boots set with morning sun is really neat but doesn't do enough damage to warrant a slot over the other Slow-but-not-that-slow-and-definetly-not-fast breakers in the tier. However it is not so bad that i wouldnt see it being used ever, its still very strong but the flaws are really hard to overlook. I would put it in the bottom half of D.



D Tier

Barraskewda is WAY TOO GOOD to pass up as a rain sweeper, but i can't hate on basculegion that much, the ghost typing for rain is godly since dragonite can effectively 6-0 any rain (theres a reason tera ghost skewda exist) and basculegion is bulky enough and strong enough to 1v1 it. I would say its wave crashes are much more powerful but it needing to be jolly to not lose to iron valiant is a hard sell. I guess you can run it alongside skewda but why run 2 of essentially the same mons when rain has so much more diverse threats that can pair up with one another to hit everyside of the opponents team. Basculegion works as a replacement for skewda that is bulkier and beats dragonite, but its less reliable and also MUCH slower, not a bad mon so prob towards the top of D.



D Tier

See, this mon doesnt look bad on paper. Its super strong, has goated coverage, and beats kingambit but man that speed SUCKS. yea it can destroy gambit, ting-lu, dozo, clod and garg but you fight an offensive pokemon, even something as "meh" as keldeo or scizor, youre in a world of hurt. This pokemon also has a 4MSS where it wants to fit rock tomb, bulldoze, close combat and swords dance alongside bullet seed and mach punch. It has the potential to destroy balance but put it againts any offensive pokemon it just loses. D is the place for it, and its probably somewhere in the middle.



D Tier

AV is pretty nice, but it struggles againts bulkier teams. it can 1v1 any offense but put it up againts anything bulky or can set up a hazard, it just loses. It has the opposite problem as breloom where if you put it 1v1 vs againts any offensive mon, you win, but if you put it up againts anything defensive like ting-lu or garg, you just lose. However, Goodra has far better utility so its probably the best mon in D tier.



D Tier

Hippowdon is a really nice bulky sand setter which can help againts the many physical attacker on the tier. It sets up rocks reliably and can whirlwind off threats. However, it is strictly a worse ting-lu. Recovery is nice but outside of bulkier sand teams there is no reason to use it. Its probably a lower D tier. Its a niche mon on a niche style.




C tier

When talking about H-Arcanine i said "Slow-but-not-that-slow-and-definetly-not-fast breakers", hydreigon definetly fits the bill perfectly as that mon, however, hydreigon is far better than H-Arcanine, it has amazing defensive typing able to resist kingambit, gholdengo, h-samurott and 1v1 Ting-Lu. Good Special attacks to threaten stuff like great tusk, lando-t, and great movepool from flash cannon, earthpower, flamethrower and nasty plot. The best set is definetly Sub nasty plot being able to 6-0 defensive team while not being a sitting duck againts offense like breloom. It has a ton of poor match-up ofcourse like play rough ogerpon, iron valiant, volcarona, iron moth however the benefit it brings far outweighs its flaws. I would rise this thing to C just because of how good it is againts bulkier teams. Theres a reason this mon was top tier in early gen 9 despite the nerf to its movepool from gen 8.




D tier in my heart, but its UR

Iron jugulis used to be a really solid fast cleaner that doesnt lose to ting lu and resist sucker punch, however, as the tier slowly moves towards fat and it having poor match up againts a lot of the new offensive mons (raging bolt, gouging fire, kyurem, darkrai, iron valiant) it has definetly fallen off. I would put it in UR but this hurts.



UR

it had 2 good sets, Throat spray sweeper and defensive rocker. both fell of HARD. throat spray has become way too slow and cant break past so many defensive mons and the defensive set just dies to any fairy (clef and primarina has never been better). easy UR



D

Its a really good counter to primarina but thats it, its far too passive and a lot of the special attackers in the tier can use it as set up fodder or just switch out without being punished. Its niche is still very useful as role compressor but most of time using a combo of 2 mons like clef alo, glowking alo, ting lu dengo to beat special sweepers is just much safer. Useful niche, but is generally outclassed.\



D Tier

knexhawk explain away (TL;DR knock absorber for stall)




D Tier

Do not use pincurchin as a terrain setter, you will lose and have a bad time. use it as a suicide lead to support iron valiant break 2-3 mons with life orb, then have 4 HO mons to your liking, yes still use terrain extender + memento or even try eject button but that cuts down on the iron valiant mayhem a bit too short for my liking. Anyways thats my rant on people using this pokemon wrong since the start of the gen and making it worse than it is.... it still sucks, yea rillaboom fell off but its becoming easier and easier to check iron valiant. While this pokemon can turn iron valiant into a broken Uber for 5-8 turns, some teams just deal with it way too easily letting it only get 1 kill at most, so yea bottom of D.



C Tier

yea this pokemon is good. Defensively it has a great typing which lets it hard counter kingambit and samurott, decent bulk and so many good support move from knock off, encore, rapid spin, roost, u-turn and can even be a sweeper with bulk up or swords dance. It can fit on every team style and it can snowball out of control because of the sheer amount of sets it has, and getting it wrong can easily cost you the game. With that said, its stats are still okay and it doesnt have the best match up into HO with a ton of strong threats being spammed and it does take a bit to get going (even the support sets), so i wouldnt put it higher than C+, but i think C is more fitting. Its a good pokemon you should try it.




UR

Its terrible and outclassed. You want a spiker? Garchomp and Samurott. You want a rocker? Lando, Treads and Glimmora. You want a webber? Ribombee and even Araquanid is there. Tspikes? Meowscarada and Greninja. There is 0 reason to use it now that spore is banned, its so frail and slow you can't get more than 1 hazard up. So yea just use a better pokemon.



C Tier

Stall struggles againts kingambit, samurott and many strong physical attackers, and they often have techs for the metal birds, but talonflame often works as a roadblock because most of these threats can't afford to be burned so just the existence of talonflame makes these threats second guess themselves. Definitely a good mon, bottom of C.




D Tier

It's a tera hog of a sweeper but in the same time it can be deadly in the right match up againts bulky offense, however it is very difficult to get set up due to its poor bulk and middling speed. It also has bad 4MSS so it sometimes have trouble with coverage even if you have tera blast.



C+ Tier

An awesome wall for fat and stall, it can run many sets from the regular knock pivot, subseed, trapper effectively and it is an incredible physical wall againts pokemon like great tusk, kingambit, samurott-h and pairs beautifully with wish alomomola to create an almost unbreakable physical defense combo. It is surprisingly easy to slap on teams as it is a dark type that can wallkingambit, samurott, gholdengo while being able to threaten primarina on the switch and spam knock-off. This pokemon is genuinely underrated, stall and balance alike love having this mon, and the varietyof set puts it as a strong contender for C+ tier.



UR

just dont.

Always got basculegions feminine counterpart for special sweeper in the rain. All of the ghost/water typing fun but none of the overlap with the barracuda as it fills the physical role.

Begs the question of where folks feel the lady ghost of swift swimmers belongs in terms of her viability

 

[pika pal]

Always got basculegions feminine counterpart for special sweeper in the rain. All of the ghost/water typing fun but none of the overlap with the barracuda as it fills the physical role.

Begs the question of where folks feel the lady ghost of swift swimmers belongs in terms of her viability

The question there I suppose is in practice, does Basculegion-F come out ahead in any important match-ups for Rain, whether as a team or compared to the Male variant? Basc-M is carried in large part by Wave Crash's massive BP under Rain Boost propping up its only okay ATK, which Basc-F has less of outside Hydro Pump. Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are pretty good neutral moves for Coverage, but 100 SpA isn't going to threaten a lot of KOs without boosting options, and outside of Dragonite to Ice Beam (which Basc-M could do either with its slashed Head Smash or a Lure move like Ice Fang after Multiscale breaks) and Shadow Ball for Glowking (Pivoting and Removing Rain) I'm not sure if Basc-F's options target any major headaches for Rain harder than their existing mons.

It has a more unique profile but does it help the playstyle compared to builds that don't run it? Basculegion-M at least has the consideration of going all in on a sort of Water Spam approach, putting massive hits on things so Skewda had room to clean, and Kingdra if anything seems like it matchs better into common headaches like Dragonite (Tera Normal ES is only a chance to KO after SR, while Kingdra will OHKO with Specs Draco through Multiscale or a Rain boosted Water STAB into Tera with any chip damage to discourage Nite checking at other points) or Ogerpon-W (which drops to Draco after SR and even with Rain gone to go first needs SE Play Rough or Neutral STAB to do so into the right Tera status). I don't even know.

Without Nasty Plot or busted power coverage, I'm a bit hesitant to call Basc-F a sweeper suitable to replace Basc-M or run alongside Barraskewda.

 

[veti]

UR

Its terrible and outclassed. You want a spiker? Garchomp and Samurott. You want a rocker? Lando, Treads and Glimmora. You want a webber? Ribombee and even Araquanid is there. Tspikes? Meowscarada and Greninja. There is 0 reason to use it now that spore is banned, its so frail and slow you can't get more than 1 hazard up. So yea just use a better pokemon.

Another vr council person, agree with most of these but especially this, smeargle does nothing at all. Even shitmons that shouldn't be anywhere near the VR like Froslass I've found to be much better mons even if they're still ass, Smeargle can be justified over every other individual lead but when you compare smeargle to deos, glimm, samu, bee, araq, and all the other actually usable hazard leads, it has nothing relevant over the rest to set it apart.

 

[Blue Sun]

Hello! Amazing job on the high rankings. Everything form S to A- feels in place and reflects the meta. My only nitpick is Cinderace which I feel should be a subrank higher. While its true that it isnt as good as it was pre DLC 2, the bunny offers some utility that is unique to him. It is a boots meta so hazards stacking is a bit weaker than it once was (still good tho) but still bunny's ability to remove hazards through gholdengo is incredible. It also helps team building in the sense that you dont need to fit necessarily hazards on your team since your opponent will set them for you, or he will respect cinderace and not throw hazards at all. Cinderace also gives a very strong match up against screens offense, which tends to be very annoying against some builds. Also he is pretty fast and provides a soft speed control while he hits pretty hard with high bp satbs. Type dancing is also situationally strong. Lastly Ace is kinda unpredictable. Pyro Ball and Court change are the only musts. Support options include WoW, fighting stab to kill heatran and pesky rocks tha think can wall bunny (random nacl switch ins) and can hurt unsuspecting ting lu (while mitigating eq weakness!), u turn for momentum and my personal favorite sucker punch to pick off weakened mons, play stupid games vs sucker punch and thunderclap and demolish some Dragapult and deoxys.

 

[malomyotismon]

The question there I suppose is in practice, does Basculegion-F come out ahead in any important match-ups for Rain, whether as a team or compared to the Male variant? Basc-M is carried in large part by Wave Crash's massive BP under Rain Boost propping up its only okay ATK, which Basc-F has less of outside Hydro Pump. Ice Beam and Shadow Ball are pretty good neutral moves for Coverage, but 100 SpA isn't going to threaten a lot of KOs without boosting options, and outside of Dragonite to Ice Beam (which Basc-M could do either with its slashed Head Smash or a Lure move like Ice Fang after Multiscale breaks) and Shadow Ball for Glowking (Pivoting and Removing Rain) I'm not sure if Basc-F's options target any major headaches for Rain harder than their existing mons.

It has a more unique profile but does it help the playstyle compared to builds that don't run it? Basculegion-M at least has the consideration of going all in on a sort of Water Spam approach, putting massive hits on things so Skewda had room to clean, and Kingdra if anything seems like it matchs better into common headaches like Dragonite (Tera Normal ES is only a chance to KO after SR, while Kingdra will OHKO with Specs Draco through Multiscale or a Rain boosted Water STAB into Tera with any chip damage to discourage Nite checking at other points) or Ogerpon-W (which drops to Draco after SR and even with Rain gone to go first needs SE Play Rough or Neutral STAB to do so into the right Tera status). I don't even know.

Without Nasty Plot or busted power coverage, I'm a bit hesitant to call Basc-F a sweeper suitable to replace Basc-M or run alongside Barraskewda.

hmm the only real set I see having viability going for it is the choice specs to use it's great coverage, with ghost being very spammable stab especially, to make up for the lacking power it's counterpart has. Personally I'd place it in D as an option but very neich that can work in rain teams looking for a more specialised rain sweeper, because that typing is very nice if you want again that special physical split to be more diversified on your rain team.

 

[Venuesaur]

Some noms

-> A-/maybe A

Very good mon. Mostly running mono-grass sucks but the combination of U-turn/knock/encore is fantastic at disrupting teams. Has great MUs into offense with its tera, not only boosting its speed but making its signature hit even harder, and encore is extremely good. Also really good into Waterpon (which shouldn't be here). It feels way better then the other mons in B+, and potentially on the same mons in A but I'm not really sure. It can drop knock/encore for other coverage like low kick but to be honest both of these moves are so good that it's hard to justify.

-> A-

I hate this mon design-wise but court change is great for offense and it has a good speed tier and attacking stats. It's a great utility pivot, and offensive threats can be honestly quite threatening; I've used an AoA cinderace set and despite the accuracy issues it's a legit set. It's big issue is obviously its accuracy on all its moves is horrendous so it's kind of unreliable. I feel like you use it offensively when you need to, not when you want to. It's court change pivot sets are obviously the real reason I'm nomming it up.

-> A+

This mon has fantastic offenses and defenses. It's bulk doesn't look amazing but water/fairy is just such a good type combo that it eats way more hits then you'd think. That's forgetting its fantastic offensive potential, with liquid voice psychic noise and moonblast hitting really hard. It also can run CM sets, boots encore flip turn sets, AV (gross), someone talked about specs. Great mon. Big issue is that it's slow and it's a water type in Waterpon meta, and no recovery really sucks.

-> A-

Still scary but I don't find it nearly as threatening as it used to be. Very hazard weak, suboptimal stab choice in either flare blitz or heat crash, both of which have downsides. It's also a fire type that doesn't resist fairy or ice, which is kind of a pain. It's still great, but I'm not sure it's as good as it was previously.

/ -> A- MAYBE

I hate these mons but they do have a lot going for them, despite their major flaws. I do think their typing is too good to pass up often, and being able to actually check Great Tusk as a steel type is really nice. They're obviously shut down by a lot, skarm is a momentum sink and Corv often can't either remove or set hazards like skarm, and encore is everywhere, but I feel like they're either top of B+ rank or bottom of A- rank. They're mons I feel that I use not because I want to but because I have to.

-> S/S-

I think this mon is placed too low for how strong and oppressive it is in the metagame. It's extremely strong, has a fantastic typing, and not only that it has a shocking amount of defensive utility but it's fairly fast for how hard it hits. It switches into most Great Tusk sets due to resisting ground, being neutral to ice and not affected by knock, water absorb means it comes in on any strong water attack and can proceed to abuse whatever it came in on. It's so strong physically that skarm can't switch into it. Pivot sets are alright, but it's really the SD set that is what makes it good; with SD + stabs, its fantastic and shreds balance and fat, before it even needs its last moveslot, which it can tech for knock off/play rough/encore. It's big weakesses are it has none that it's speed tier, while still great for how powerful it is, leaves it open to being outsped by faster threats like Valiant, Moon, etc. and it's hazard weak because it can't run boots. Unlike the other balance shredder in the tier, Kyurem, its defensive typing is better, it has a legit boosting option (DD isn't real) and it's much faster. Insane mon that doesn't belong in OU.

 

[Ehmcee]

Gonna start off with lukewarm takes

A+ -> S -

Blanks every physical attacker ever not named Tera Flying Roaring Moon, incredibly useful into the surge of Ogerpon Wellspring / Teal as well as Darkrai, but always countering the standard HO threats like Roaring Moon pre-tera, Non-Ghost Tera Kingambit, Great Tusk, Gouging Fire, Kyurem and more. It gets to often pick and choose it's checks and counters with the combination of crunch/heavy slam, one bodying fairies like hatt, Clef and Iron Valiant, while Crunch owns Dragapult and Gking on the switchin.

It's Tera's are widely variable, with different ones to beat it's checks like Tera Ghost for Skarmory, Tera Fire for Volcarona, Tera Steel/Poison for Gliscor + Iron Valiant. It's honestly insane the amount of set variety this mon can pull, leftovers, HDB even Mirror Herb has seen some great success in tournament against opposing HO's.

Roar is probably the development that puts the nail in the coffin, Zamazenta wins 1v1 against any other setup sweeper, as well as having phasing priority against any other phasers due to it's speed.

-> A+

Primarina does incredibly well into the current meta of Dragons/Darks + Zamazenta, as well as having a positive matchup into the ever present Volcarona. The recent SPL Playoffs especially showed this, with every game having at least one Primarina. The mon fits insanely well onto current Bulky Offenses and Balances, and is quite possibly the main thing breathing air into the playstyle currently.


Now to get spicy


S -> A+

Great Tusk faces so much competition from the other grounds in the metagame, and I'd argue only really fits onto Hyper Offense at the moment. Lando-T's overshadowed it's role on Bulky Offense structures while Gliscor/Ting-Lu have always been better than it on Boots Spam or Balances, spinning feels less important in the current metagame, with many O's adapting to using backup non-lead glimmoras, while some BO structures utilize the combination of Iron Crown / Landorus-T / Primarina to ensure that hazards never even go up at all.

Set predictability is also a huge factor, Tusk is required to run Ice Spinner in the current metagame, with most opting for Rapid Spin as well if not running Booster + Bulk Up (which usually run spin too!). Every single Gholdengo in existence running Air Balloon doesn't make it as reliable as it once was, with most webs being able to guarantee a kill or at least a switchout, which essentially kills Great Tusk due to the nature of HO squads.

Mon just doesn't feel as good as it did back then


S -> S-

Gambit's fallen onto some pretty hard times with the current metagame trends, the rise of Encore Ogerpons and Primarina, Landorus-T making a resurgence, Sub/Wisp Volcarona becoming prominent and Dragapults often option for Will-O-Wisp makes the world a lot less hospitable to it. Now obviously it's still the best win condition in the game, I just don't think it's that above the rest of the metagame. While some might propose the idea of diversity of Tera on it, it almost feels like it often loses certain matchups on the spot if it doesn't have the right tera. Not having Tera Ghost is extremely bad into Zamazenta, Skarmory and Corviknight, Not running Tera Flying makes you usually lose to Landorus-T and Great Tusk, not running Tera Fire makes you wisp bait to Dragapult and Volcarona, while not running tera fighting / dark makes you lose to Dondozo. The scary Black Glasses Tera Dark set feels worse than ever when Kingambit's defensive utility is needed more than ever, lefties, HDB or Air Balloon feel almost mandatory on Kingambit currently, because most teams just aren't willing to throw away the defensive utility Kingambit provides over the ability of essentially having a purely end of game offensive cleaner/sweeper.

I think metagame trends shifting Kingambit into less of a sweeping menace should lead into at least somewhat of a drop.

 

[Heatranator]

S -> A+

Great Tusk faces so much competition from the other grounds in the metagame, and I'd argue only really fits onto Hyper Offense at the moment. Lando-T's overshadowed it's role on Bulky Offense structures while Gliscor/Ting-Lu have always been better than it on Boots Spam or Balances, spinning feels less important in the current metagame, with many O's adapting to using backup non-lead glimmoras, while some BO structures utilize the combination of Iron Crown / Landorus-T / Primarina to ensure that hazards never even go up at all.

Set predictability is also a huge factor, Tusk is required to run Ice Spinner in the current metagame, with most opting for Rapid Spin as well if not running Booster + Bulk Up (which usually run spin too!). Every single Gholdengo in existence running Air Balloon doesn't make it as reliable as it once was, with most webs being able to guarantee a kill or at least a switchout, which essentially kills Great Tusk due to the nature of HO squads.

Mon just doesn't feel as good as it did back then

Although I do see why you would drop tusk, and it isn't as good as it was before, I think if you are going to drop it, only to S- is a fairer rank. Tusk is the most threatening of the ground types, with SD Gliscor being the next threatening ground type, who commonly has coverage issues with it being forced to run protect and SD to be threatening, leaving it with only E-quake and facade for attacks, which gets hard countered by ghold and the metal birds. I also do think that ice spinner can be dropped for another move as even with ice spinner, it doesn't do the best into gliscor, lando or rillaboom. Air balloon ghold I also believe doesn't really counter tusk (for pete's sake people, click knock off on the first turn you try to spin, it will always be beneficial). Providing spin still opens a lot more item variety in teambuilding, which is a valuable asset. I still think it should be S rank, but S- rank is the lowest I would go.

But speaking of spicy takes on ground types:
-> A+/A
Hot take, gliscor isn't too good. I've been using it a lot on stall teams and balance teams, and it just is either too frail or too passive for it to do much. Since many things run ice type moves on their movesets, gliscor is threatened for huge damage and can't do all that it wants to when its out, making it run from matchups it should dominate. Even something like CB rillaboom or DD Gouging, who don't hit it for super effective damage, it has to be careful around since they do massive damage to it (Rilla Wood Hammer does 71% min and +1 gouging flare blitz does 50% min). The standard moveset of spikes, protect, toxic and e-quake can deal with a large amount of things, but it kinda also wants knock off to remove items and deal with air baloon mons like heatran and ghold, wants u-turn to get out of situations and taunt to stop opposing mons from setting up on it. Not all of these are necessary, but something important will always use it as setup fodder, which is not ideal in this metagame. If it decides to go offensive, then it has to choose its coverage carefully, as its always hard walled by something. It needs all of e-quake, protect and sd, and has to choose between facade, knock off and ice fang/crabhammer. If it chooses facade, its hard walled by the metal birds and air balloon ghold, if it chosses knock off its still techincally hard walled by the metal birds and now tusk, zama and opposing gliscor, and if it chooses ice fang/crabhammer it is potentially walled by the metal birds and waterpon. It just has 4mss because it needs the requisite protect, and it wants all the coverage/utility it needs to do its job. It simply cannot do enough, but is still a good mon, thus a ranking of A.
-> A-/B+
Iron treads is if you took great tusk, and removed some of its most valuable traits while giving it the illusion of something better by giving it more speed. Spoiler, that speed isn't enough. 106 speed is simply not enough speed in this meta, enam can attest to that. Sure, it can use booster energy, and that is probably the best set, but that is restricted mostly to HO teams who want a very fast spinner and rocker. On more normal teams, it can try to differeniate itself by using a special set, but aside from steel beam, its attacks are limp. It cannot OHKO a cinderace from full with 252 sp.attack evs with earth power, that's just pathetic. And if you decide to run physical treads, just use tusk. It's main niche is that its a spinner that isn't tusk that doesn't suck ass, but quaq does that job better because it doesn't try to copy tusk and fail or try to differeniate itself and fail.

 

[Moyashi]

-> A+/A
Hot take, gliscor isn't too good. I've been using it a lot on stall teams and balance teams, and it just is either too frail or too passive for it to do much. Since many things run ice type moves on their movesets, gliscor is threatened for huge damage and can't do all that it wants to when its out, making it run from matchups it should dominate. Even something like CB rillaboom or DD Gouging, who don't hit it for super effective damage, it has to be careful around since they do massive damage to it (Rilla Wood Hammer does 71% min and +1 gouging flare blitz does 50% min). The standard moveset of spikes, protect, toxic and e-quake can deal with a large amount of things, but it kinda also wants knock off to remove items and deal with air baloon mons like heatran and ghold, wants u-turn to get out of situations and taunt to stop opposing mons from setting up on it. Not all of these are necessary, but something important will always use it as setup fodder, which is not ideal in this metagame. If it decides to go offensive, then it has to choose its coverage carefully, as its always hard walled by something. It needs all of e-quake, protect and sd, and has to choose between facade, knock off and ice fang/crabhammer. If it chooses facade, its hard walled by the metal birds and air balloon ghold, if it chosses knock off its still techincally hard walled by the metal birds and now tusk, zama and opposing gliscor, and if it chooses ice fang/crabhammer it is potentially walled by the metal birds and waterpon. It just has 4mss because it needs the requisite protect, and it wants all the coverage/utility it needs to do its job. It simply cannot do enough, but is still a good mon, thus a ranking of A.

Can't agree with this one. It has some minor flaws but they are not enough to bump it down. It's simply too crucial a presence in the tier and anchors defensive teams almost more than anything. Its influence is still really big, which plays into why many mons like Galar Slowking and Tusk run ice coverage as they otherwise get stone walled. I also don't know why you'd cite it not checking CB Wood Hammer Rilla, when most neutral pokemon aren't going to either. You're supposed to use resists for that. DD Gouging is checked well enough by Gliscor through use of Toxic. It's a very flexible mon and isn't a matter of "wanting moves". It simply picks based on its own team composition and what best fits it there. Also it really doesn't need Ice Fang or Crabhammer, these are super specific and generally unecessary. SD Gliscor just brute forces things longterm.

 

[Heatranator]

Can't agree with this one. It has some minor flaws but they are not enough to bump it down. It's simply too crucial a presence in the tier and anchors defensive teams almost more than anything. Its influence is still really big, which plays into why many mons like Galar Slowking and Tusk run ice coverage as they otherwise get stone walled. I also don't know why you'd cite it not checking CB Wood Hammer Rilla, when most neutral pokemon aren't going to either. You're supposed to use resists for that. DD Gouging is checked well enough by Gliscor through use of Toxic. It's a very flexible mon and isn't a matter of "wanting moves". It simply picks based on its own team composition and what best fits it there. Also it really doesn't need Ice Fang or Crabhammer, these are super specific and generally unecessary. SD Gliscor just brute forces things longterm.

Sure, but when you are using gliscor defensively, it needs to be able to take on physical hits. DD Gouging again, does 50% minimum and a simple tera means it can kinda do whatever it wants on gliscor. It also does want many more moves than it has room for. If you are stonewalled by many common mons, then that's not good, you are giving ghold the opportunity to do whatever it wants while it has balloon intatct, compare that to tusk who can knock off ghold, and that's not good. The SD set in particular suffers from this. The best option is Facade and E-quake, but even tusk can take a +2 facade twice and ko it back with ice spinner. Sure, it can outlive tusk, but it can't break through tusk even with lots of chip. It loses to hex pult as it can even potentially live a +2 e-quake, mind you with a -defense nature. It just doesn't have enough power even at +2. Even enam can potentially live a +2 facade, that's honestly just kinda sad. Clefable has a pretty good chance to live 2 e-quakes at +2. If I want a bulky sweeper, then gouging fire is right there, which is much more powerful even at neutral with adamant.
Ice type moves being omnipresent is partially because of gliscor, but they won't instantly drop them if gliscor wasn't in the game anymore. Lando-t is also quad weak to ice and is a pretty commmon mon, and provides some competition to it. We have so many ground types in the tier, and dragon types, that ice moves are pretty good into lots of other things.
Another thing that I forgot to mention, is that unless you lead gliscor, it can struggle to find opportunities to switch in reliably to activate its toxic orb, since it is so scared of knock off on that first turn. This either means you are leading scor first turn every game, which is kinda predictable since you have to protect that first turn and giving the opponent the opportunity, or having to play super carefully with it, which restricts its defensive utility. This is especially noticeable on stall teams, you often rely on gliscor to be one of their knock absorbers, if not there only knock absorber. And it can't do its job at that unless it leads or has to pivot around carefully, is not good.
Again, great mon, but if I want to use a ground/flying type, my pick is going to be lando-t unless I'm using stall. It can fit onto many different teams, and is still a great mon, but it feels more like a weavile or ting-lu mon. Can be amazing, but is replacable and flawed in some ways that prevent them from truely doing all they want to do.

 

[RS25802580]

Sure, but when you are using gliscor defensively, it needs to be able to take on physical hits. DD Gouging again, does 50% minimum and a simple tera means it can kinda do whatever it wants on gliscor. It also does want many more moves than it has room for. If you are stonewalled by many common mons, then that's not good, you are giving ghold the opportunity to do whatever it wants while it has balloon intatct, compare that to tusk who can knock off ghold, and that's not good. The SD set in particular suffers from this. The best option is Facade and E-quake, but even tusk can take a +2 facade twice and ko it back with ice spinner. Sure, it can outlive tusk, but it can't break through tusk even with lots of chip. It loses to hex pult as it can even potentially live a +2 e-quake, mind you with a -defense nature. It just doesn't have enough power even at +2. Even enam can potentially live a +2 facade, that's honestly just kinda sad. Clefable has a pretty good chance to live 2 e-quakes at +2. If I want a bulky sweeper, then gouging fire is right there, which is much more powerful even at neutral with adamant.
Ice type moves being omnipresent is partially because of gliscor, but they won't instantly drop them if gliscor wasn't in the game anymore. Lando-t is also quad weak to ice and is a pretty commmon mon, and provides some competition to it. We have so many ground types in the tier, and dragon types, that ice moves are pretty good into lots of other things.
Another thing that I forgot to mention, is that unless you lead gliscor, it can struggle to find opportunities to switch in reliably to activate its toxic orb, since it is so scared of knock off on that first turn. This either means you are leading scor first turn every game, which is kinda predictable since you have to protect that first turn and giving the opponent the opportunity, or having to play super carefully with it, which restricts its defensive utility. This is especially noticeable on stall teams, you often rely on gliscor to be one of their knock absorbers, if not there only knock absorber. And it can't do its job at that unless it leads or has to pivot around carefully, is not good.
Again, great mon, but if I want to use a ground/flying type, my pick is going to be lando-t unless I'm using stall. It can fit onto many different teams, and is still a great mon, but it feels more like a weavile or ting-lu mon. Can be amazing, but is replacable and flawed in some ways that prevent them from truely doing all they want to do.

Finch won in SPL with a Glisc balance team. It’s still really good. Toxic and/or knock forcing progress + knock absorber + status absorber + naturally amazing hazards matchup just packs so much value.

You’re not supposed to use Glisc to wall a lot of hits, that’s the role of common teammates like Ting Lu or Mola that Glisc supports.

For the record, I think Spdef is the better set. Again, you don’t want to be sitting in front of wallbreakers because Glisc isn’t make to tank those kinds of hits and you’re not gonna get the most mileage out of it that way.

Spdef lets you take multiple hexes from Pult and Toxic/knock it, or reliably eat any one boosted attack from Volc and Toxic it so that you can double into a partner like Glowking.

If you’re running SD, then drop facade for Knock Off, you’ll get a lot more value and can actually hit balloon Ghold, which you bait in.

 

[Finchinator]

Gliscor is near the peak of its powers right now. SD is one of the best win conditions, utility offers a lot still, and even pivot sets work well. Being able to provide a Ground immunity, Electric immunity, status soaker, and hazard immunity (negates SR w/ PHeal + ignores Spikes) in one slot is incredibly valuable. It dropping right now is a non-starter and feels very much off-base.

 

[#1 Talonflame Enjoyer]

I am actually quite surprised that Gouging Fire is as low as it is, I mean I don't think it's S, But the fact it is straight A is kinda an understatement, I mean it was suspect tested and even got really close to being banned at one point for crying out loud. Though I do get why it's there, due to the amount of Draco Meteor users and Earthquakers. (Though it does have impressive physical bulk.) Also respect to whoever thought Talonflame belonged at least on the OU viability tier, they have my eternal respect.

 

[RS25802580]

I am actually quite surprised that Gouging Fire is as low as it is, I mean I don't think it's S, But the fact it is straight A is kinda an understatement, I mean it was suspect tested and even got really close to being banned at one point for crying out loud. Though I do get why it's there, due to the amount of Draco Meteor users and Earthquakers. (Though it does have impressive physical bulk.) Also respect to whoever thought Talonflame belonged at least on the OU viability tier, they have my eternal respect.

Bulky teams have largely adapted to the Breaking Swipe set. The offensive DDance set is good but feels like A material. While its bulk is good, Dragon/Fire is also kind of mid defensively since it doesn’t have a lot of useful resists bar the 4x fire & grass matchup. It gets baited in by Volc which could proceed to nuke it with Tera Ground or Dragon. It does match up good against Rillaboom though.

 

[malomyotismon]

Gliscor is near the peak of its powers right now. SD is one of the best win conditions, utility offers a lot still, and even pivot sets work well. Being able to provide a Ground immunity, Electric immunity, status soaker, and hazard immunity (negates SR w/ PHeal + ignores Spikes) in one slot is incredibly valuable. It dropping right now is a non-starter and feels very much off-base.

Feels like a roller coaster ride for gliscir being from broken to great to good to great to broken and back down again XD

 

[Lightniong]

[] -> A+

Like some other people have said, it just has a ton of competition with other Ground types for team slots, as Landorus-T is more useful on bulky offense due to U-Turn being able to bring in threats, and Gliscor is more useful on Balance and Stall teams due to being a Knock Off absorber, and being one of the best spikers in the metagame. The only reason why you would use Great Tusk over these Pokemon is due to it being one of the only hazard removers in the game, which has become less useful due to the popularity of full HDB teams, and for it‘s bulk, but even then, Gliscor has it beat in the bulk department due to Poison Heal.

[] -> A+

Like many other people have said, Primarina has just amazing defensive utility due to it being a Water/Fairy type, and bulky calm mind sets take full advantage of this to set up and threaten things like Zamazenta, Great Tusk, and Volcarona. Most bulky Offense/Balance teams enjoy the resistance to the multitude of Dragon and Dark types OU has, while also being able to chip down and sort-of wall break for other Pokémon to take advantage.

 

[Magcargo]

I think Tusk could get demoted, but only to S-. IMO its ability to spin is still S-Tier utility in practice on non-bootspam teams (which might not be "optimal" per-se but is still is amazing for more experimental builders). Even if its on-paper synergies aren't so great, it practice, I find it to still be a very useful piece between its ability to setup rocks, spin, threaten high damage vs slower targets like Primarina, Raging Bolt, Heatran, etc & using Tera well to emergency check threats such as Ogerpon-W. What I'm impressed by is how versatile it still is even if 3 of its slots are decided from the get go, with options like Temper Flare, Supercell Slam, Bulk Up, Rocks, Taunt, and Roar all being viable contenders in the last slot + having several viable EV spreads. Personally, I still find Tusk to be an important Pokemon to enable more creative options, which I feel still makes it worthy of S-Rank. That being said, Lando-T could very well join it as I find its utility to similarly be S-Rank worthy, between its ability to Intimidate most physical threats, set-up rocks, chip most threats reliably with Helmet, and overall just be a low risk - high reward piece that helps enable other Pokemon.

 

[Baloor]

I think Tusk could get demoted, but only to S-. IMO its ability to spin is still S-Tier utility in practice on non-bootspam teams (which might not be "optimal" per-se but is still is amazing for more experimental builders). Even if its on-paper synergies aren't so great, it practice, I find it to still be a very useful piece between its ability to setup rocks, spin, threaten high damage vs slower targets like Primarina, Raging Bolt, Heatran, etc & using Tera well to emergency check threats such as Ogerpon-W. What I'm impressed by is how versatile it still is even if 3 of its slots are decided from the get go, with options like Temper Flare, Supercell Slam, Bulk Up, Rocks, Taunt, and Roar all being viable contenders in the last slot + having several viable EV spreads. Personally, I still find Tusk to be an important Pokemon to enable more creative options, which I feel still makes it worthy of S-Rank. That being said, Lando-T could very well join it as I find its utility to similarly be S-Rank worthy, between its ability to Intimidate most physical threats, set-up rocks, chip most threats reliably with Helmet, and overall just be a low risk - high reward piece that helps enable other Pokemon.

I initially disagreed with the sentiment but after a brief thought I think a Tusk drop is not exactly out of the question. I think Tusk is actually at a high right now compared to previous months, mostly because of its ability to support annoying pokemon like specs kyurem, garg and waterpon. However, I feel dragapult and kingambit are a step above tusk in terms of how meta defining they are. The issue is S+ is a pretty unrealistic ask unless you are basically needed on every team like gen6 pdon in ubers. Its weird because Tusk is like, really really good especially right now but a step below the pokemon it shares a VR ranking with. By traditional means tusk is far from a S- pokemon, especially in the role it fills atm but if this gen has taught us anything, traditional means arent the most applicable when it comes to SV OU.

With this said I don't think LandoT should join Tusk if it were to move to S- just due to how good the other two pokemon are. Lando is a pretty big stand out in A+ right now but I still do not think it would be exactly S- worthy in this scenario and I don't find it comparable to Tusk.

Also, A+ Tusk drop suggestion is pretty ridiculous (just read above why) and gliscor is definitely A+ right now due to how good the SD set is on top of what we've known about it for months. Treads is whatever, I don't care for the mon but it has its place on offense and can be annoying with the right support. There's a team from SPL thats been used a lot recently with booster atk and it can cause a real headache given the mu.

 

[alkazoth]

from B --> A-

I've already sung my praises for this mon in metagame discussion, but I refuse to believe that Hydrapple should be ranked lower than Iron Fraud Boulder. I'll just give a quick recap of what I said previously: Hydrapple is a physically defensive Regen wall who is able to take on top metagame threats like Waterpon, Tusk, Rilla, Gouging, Garg, and maybe Kingambit if you really position yourself correctly. Physdef has been the best set by far, pairing extremely well with Glowking on balance to form a nice Regen core. Vest is cool on sand as a way to patch up sand's weaknesses to Water and Grass types, and can fit over Amoonguss and Chesnaught in that slot due to it being a better way to take special attacks and it has a stronger offensive presence than both of them. The Sticky Hold set is good on stall, but has no uses outside of that.

from A+ --> S
This mon has become irreplaceable on balance thanks to Regen, its unique typing making it a Toxic immune and a Psychic who isn't weak to U-turn, access to Future Sight, Chilly Reception to pivot, insane coverage, status moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave, and overall great special bulk. There is 0 reason to not use this on balance it compresses way too much utility in one slot, would actually go as far as to say it's better than Great Tusk rn, who is not mandatory on these teamstyles unlike Glowking. Not much else to say, everyone knows how important Glowking is at this point.

from B --> B+ or A-
I feel like Scizor's flown under the radar, but playing HO made me really appreciate how devastating it can be. SD sets with Life Orb, Boots, or pinch berries like Sitrus or Liechi can wipe weakened teams. Life Orb is able to ohko offensive Gholdengo without any boosts, Boots avoids chip from hazards, Sitrus is able to recover some damage it sustained from Pokemon like Kyurem and Landorus, and Liechi is able to give Scizor an additional +1 Attack boost if it gets critically low, which gives you stronger Bullet Punches. Knock Off is typically the best option to hit Gholdengo, however I've seen Thief used to steal items such as Helmet from Lando and the steel birds and Lefties from Ironpress Zama if it decides to switch in. Overall solid and underrated mon, obviously hates Volcarona dominating rn but I still feel it's deserving of a rise.

 

[GummyRowlets]

from B --> A-

I've already sung my praises for this mon in metagame discussion, but I refuse to believe that Hydrapple should be ranked lower than Iron Fraud Boulder. I'll just give a quick recap of what I said previously: Hydrapple is a physically defensive Regen wall who is able to take on top metagame threats like Waterpon, Tusk, Rilla, Gouging, Garg, and maybe Kingambit if you really position yourself correctly. Physdef has been the best set by far, pairing extremely well with Glowking on balance to form a nice Regen core. Vest is cool on sand as a way to patch up sand's weaknesses to Water and Grass types, and can fit over Amoonguss and Chesnaught in that slot due to it being a better way to take special attacks and it has a stronger offensive presence than both of them. The Sticky Hold set is good on stall, but has no uses outside of that.

from A+ --> S
This mon has become irreplaceable on balance thanks to Regen, its unique typing making it a Toxic immune and a Psychic who isn't weak to U-turn, access to Future Sight, Chilly Reception to pivot, insane coverage, status moves like Toxic and Thunder Wave, and overall great special bulk. There is 0 reason to not use this on balance it compresses way too much utility in one slot, would actually go as far as to say it's better than Great Tusk rn, who is not mandatory on these teamstyles unlike Glowking. Not much else to say, everyone knows how important Glowking is at this point.

from B --> B+ or A-
I feel like Scizor's flown under the radar, but playing HO made me really appreciate how devastating it can be. SD sets with Life Orb, Boots, or pinch berries like Sitrus or Liechi can wipe weakened teams. Life Orb is able to ohko offensive Gholdengo without any boosts, Boots avoids chip from hazards, Sitrus is able to recover some damage it sustained from Pokemon like Kyurem and Landorus, and Liechi is able to give Scizor an additional +1 Attack boost if it gets critically low, which gives you stronger Bullet Punches. Knock Off is typically the best option to hit Gholdengo, however I've seen Thief used to steal items such as Helmet from Lando and the steel birds and Lefties from Ironpress Zama if it decides to switch in. Overall solid and underrated mon, obviously hates Volcarona dominating rn but I still feel it's deserving of a rise.

I agree on most of these but the Hydrapple is a tad confusing. I do think it is a decent mon and has its good qualities, but it typing is still bad in this metagame. Being weak to all the dragons, walled by common defensive mon (glowking, Corviknight, Gholdengo), and being quite slow just make it have to many negatives in my opinion in the meta. I think something more realistic would be for it to rise to B+ instead. Regen and the ability to scare of Ogerpon and Garg are honestly great niches for me to rise to there instead.

 

[Heatranator]

from B --> A-

I've already sung my praises for this mon in metagame discussion, but I refuse to believe that Hydrapple should be ranked lower than Iron Fraud Boulder. I'll just give a quick recap of what I said previously: Hydrapple is a physically defensive Regen wall who is able to take on top metagame threats like Waterpon, Tusk, Rilla, Gouging, Garg, and maybe Kingambit if you really position yourself correctly. Physdef has been the best set by far, pairing extremely well with Glowking on balance to form a nice Regen core. Vest is cool on sand as a way to patch up sand's weaknesses to Water and Grass types, and can fit over Amoonguss and Chesnaught in that slot due to it being a better way to take special attacks and it has a stronger offensive presence than both of them. The Sticky Hold set is good on stall, but has no uses outside of that.

While hydrapple is definitely good, I think A- is a bit too high. Maybe A rank is fairer since it does have competition in the dragon role especially with gouging as a bulky dragon, but A rank or B+ is where it should go.
Though you did say something that caught my interest.
-> B+/B-
You could also drop this to B, but I think we all know that iron boulder is more like Iron Fraud. Iron boulder is extremely fast and does have a powerful attack stat, but that's all it's got going for it, everything else about it is trash. It's coverage is not good, it has to choose all of SD, mighty cleave, e-quake, cc and zen headbutt and not having one of them means it is walled by something, even more so if it wants to be creative with niche moves such as sub. It's typing is poor defensively, as it is weak to two common priority moves in grassy glide and sucker punch, while being weak to common attacks and even neutral strong hits destroy it. Add onto the fact that iron valiant outclasses it in most departments and that's a big issue. Doesn't really have a place around stuff like cinderace, clod and heatran, who all have great roles in the tier. It's more along the lines of Moltres and sinistcha, who I'd say are better than it but have the similar issue of not being the most splashable.
Also, no, the tera flying sub set is not saving it. It prays on one archetype who's main mon it counters has been using a move which counters it (rock tomb on lando).

 

[heileone]

Yo, moltres definitely needs to move up, idk what its doing in b- with the rest of those bums. Its very good into offense for beating stuff like non fire zama and gambit. I think B+ would be a lot more apt for it.

Edit: on second thought maybe it would fit into B, but its a better than a lot of those mons

 

[Soiramio3000]

Are you absolutely sure that smeargle should be on the viability list?

I understand that it can theoretically set up to all 3 hazards, but this pokemon is incredibly fragile, it is is lucky to use more than one move.
The spore ban nerfed it even further.

It feels like a less bad version of the f.e.a.r. tactics.

If the opponent has a multy-strike move then smeargle is dead.

 

[MaahirMomtaz12]

I agree on most of these but the Hydrapple is a tad confusing. I do think it is a decent mon and has its good qualities, but it typing is still bad in this metagame. Being weak to all the dragons

Unless you're Steel/Dragon (RIP Archaludon) or Fairy/Dragon (RIP Mega Altaria) you're always weak to Dragon LOL. That's like saying Dragapult is weak to Dragon so it shouldn't rise

 

[DartTamarin519]

Unless you're Steel/Dragon (RIP Archaludon) or Fairy/Dragon (RIP Mega Altaria) you're always weak to Dragon LOL. That's like saying Dragapult is weak to Dragon so it shouldn't rise

I will point out a flaw in that logic.
Hydrapple is a slow and mostly defensive 'Mon. Dragapult is a fast and frail attacking 'Mon. Dragapult is dropping the Dracos that Hydrapple has to eat. The two mons have very different roles and can't be compared like that.