Super Smash Bros 4 (Spoilers ITT)

[aVocado]

I haven't played in while, what happened to Sheik? Does her throws not combo anymore with uair/fair?

Sheik basically got the greninja treatment, except harder. From #1 to probably not even top 15.

They nerfed fair's range, needles range, fthrow stops comboing after 60% to anything, dthrow is useless (sends them way too high), and her weight has gone from 85 to 81.

 

[EtrianHero23]

Speaking of Sheik, even after her nerfs, I still feel like her neutral is still one of the best in the game. Fair is still a really safe aerial and Needles, are still a great projectile, even after the range nerf for both of them. Although it isn't as dominant as it was pre-patch, it still shuts down a good portion of the cast.

However, now it looks like Sheik has a MUCH harder time getting the kill bar edgeguarding. Throws no longer lead to 50/50s at higher percents, which was her primary way of getting any sort of kill. It forces the Sheik player to commit to really unsafe options.

I feel the meta for Sheik will focus more on her edge guarding as it will probably be her main way of taking stocks now due to her having no solid 50/50s or kill confirms now. These nerfs pretty much force her to play extremely defensive now, especially with how much rage the opponent will build up.

Just my two cents.

 

[aVocado]

Speaking of Sheik, even after her nerfs, I still feel like her neutral is still one of the best in the game. Fair is still a really safe aerial and Needles, are still a great projectile, even after the range nerf for both of them. Although it isn't as dominant as it was pre-patch, it still shuts down a good portion of the cast.

However, now it looks like Sheik has a MUCH harder time getting the kill bar edgeguarding. Throws no longer lead to 50/50s at higher percents, which was her primary way of getting any sort of kill. It forces the Sheik player to commit to really unsafe options.

I feel the meta for Sheik will focus more on her edge guarding as it will probably be her main way of taking stocks now due to her having no solid 50/50s or kill confirms now. These nerfs pretty much force her to play extremely defensive now, especially with how much rage the opponent will build up.

Just my two cents.

No, her neutral has gotten a very huge hit. Some projectiles can actually outrange needles now (water shuriken, shadow ball/aura sphere), her fair is not as safe as it used to be and you can't just spam it in the neutral cuz other aerials can beat it now, and her grab game is basically non-existent right now. Her neutral isn't the best in the game, diddy's is, and diddy's was even arguably better BEFORE the nerfs.

Sheik's neutral is still p good but like, what's a good neutral gonna do if you can't really kill? Also, sheik can win the neutral 15 times and all it takes is for the opponent to win it once and they'll catch up in terms of damage output. Sheik's combo game now is actually pretty mediocre compared to like, diddy. I feel diddy as a character just completely replaces sheik now. strong grab game, amazing neutral, amazing fair, all he lacks is the invincible recovery sheik had.

I agree on the nerfs making her play defensive. This is actually really bad cuz sm4sh doesn't need more defensive bullshit. Rosalina is already the best character at defending in the entire series let alone just sm4sh, then there's sonic, and a campy diddy, cloud, or sheik to boot it off.

 

[EtrianHero23]

No, her neutral has gotten a very huge hit. Some projectiles can actually outrange needles now (water shuriken, shadow ball/aura sphere), her fair is not as safe as it used to be and you can't just spam it in the neutral cuz other aerials can beat it now, and her grab game is basically non-existent right now. Her neutral isn't the best in the game, diddy's is, and diddy's was even arguably better BEFORE the nerfs.

Sheik's neutral is still p good but like, what's a good neutral gonna do if you can't really kill? Also, sheik can win the neutral 15 times and all it takes is for the opponent to win it once and they'll catch up in terms of damage output. Sheik's combo game now is actually pretty mediocre compared to like, diddy. I feel diddy as a character just completely replaces sheik now. strong grab game, amazing neutral, amazing fair, all he lacks is the invincible recovery sheik had.

I agree on the nerfs making her play defensive. This is actually really bad cuz sm4sh doesn't need more defensive bullshit. Rosalina is already the best character at defending in the entire series let alone just sm4sh, then there's sonic, and a campy diddy, cloud, or sheik to boot it off.

I never said that she still has the best neutral, just that she has one of the better ones in the game. I still agree with you though. Sheik has a hard time securing stocks now without a hard read or an edgeguard. All this patch does is just force the Sheik player to play more defensive and slow the game down a lot.

I'm just hoping the meta just doesn't take a turn for the worse after this patch. :(

Btw, love your profile pic. It's amazing.

 

[newtonja]

I'm just hoping the meta just doesn't take a turn for the worse after this patch. :(

The year is 20RR...

 

[Karxrida]

A video about some interesting tech.

 

[newtonja]

On a serious note, does this actually make rosalina the best character? Because if so, this game has come full circle.

 

[EtrianHero23]

A video about some interesting tech.

Pro Controller master race! :) This could actually be really gamechanging for Smash 4's meta.

On a serious note, does this actually make rosalina the best character? Because if so, this game has come full circle.

In terms of the recent patch? Maybe, but she is currently contending with either Cloud or Bayonetta for that spot.

 

[aVocado]

Yes imo rosa is the best character rn. You can counterpick bayo to stages but rosa is way too consistent and has the best defensive capabilities in the game, along with jank.

The meta is extremely bad right now. I don't think I'm being biased when I say Sheik veing the best is way better tham rosa and bayo being top 2.

 

[Minwu]

I hope Nintendo won't try to remove that input tech, cause seeing some safe mobility options in high level play would be great from my viewer perspective. Shielding is still pretty strong right now.

 

[Cheryl.]

So does this mean ZeRo ain't gonna be winning all the tourneys? :o

But yeah, I seriously don't like this meta rn. Bayo and Rosa are everywhere, Cloud is still annoying af to deal with at times, I want Sheik back. ;_;

 

[Magcargo]

Only thing thats really bad about the metagame is Bayonetta, who is more than likely to get nerfed next patch. Rosalina and Cloud at least have some semblance of weaknesses that prevent them from being overpowered (Cloud being mediocre w/o Limit charged, while Rosalina is pretty weak w/o Luma. Both also have exploitable recoveries).

I think the current metagame is really balanced though outside of Bayonetta. The ZSS, MK, and Sheik nerfs allow a LOT of other characters to shine in competitive play.

 

[EtrianHero23]

So does this mean ZeRo ain't gonna be winning all the tourneys? :o

But yeah, I seriously don't like this meta rn. Bayo and Rosa are everywhere, Cloud is still annoying af to deal with at times, I want Sheik back. ;_;

Nah, Zero is still going to win imo. He's still the best Smash 4 player by far. Ranai pls win Evo.

Bayo is slowly getting more representation at tournaments and showing to be a fantastic viable solo character. I don't think she is absolutely broken, but she does have some dumb stuff. Being at risk of dying because she WT'd a Jab is dumb no matter how you put it (WT in general is a pretty busted move imo). In addition, being able to 0 to death a majority of the cast off of a side-B is insane. However, I still think it's too early to outright ban her like a lot of the Smash Community wants to do. Unless she wins something huge, like Evo, Pound, etc. I will still think that she isn't ban worthy.

Also, a vid that shows how to escape the 0 to death. Unfortunately, you will still get combed.

Rosa on the other hand, only really has Dabuz consistently making top 8 with her, so I don't think she is that much of a problem in terms of balance.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Nah, Zero is still going to win imo. He's still the best Smash 4 player by far. Ranai pls win Evo.

Bayo is slowly getting more representation at tournaments and showing to be a fantastic viable solo character. I don't think she is absolutely broken, but she does have some dumb stuff. Being at risk of dying because she WT'd a Jab is dumb no matter how you put it (WT in general is a pretty busted move imo). In addition, being able to 0 to death a majority of the cast off of a side-B is insane. However, I still think it's too early to outright ban her like a lot of the Smash Community wants to do. Unless she wins something huge, like Evo, Pound, etc. I will still think that she isn't ban worthy.

Also, a vid that shows how to escape the 0 to death. Unfortunately, you will still get combed.

Rosa on the other hand, only really has Dabuz consistently making top 8 with her, so I don't think she is that much of a problem in terms of balance.

That video has the bayo not even doing the correct combos. What happens against a bayo player that knows the options is that regardless of di bayo can still zero to death you they just have to chose a different option and react to your di.

 

[EtrianHero23]

That video has the bayo not even doing the correct combos. What happens against a bayo player that knows the options is that regardless of di bayo can still zero to death you they just have to chose a different option and react to your di.

I don't think there is such a thing as "correct combos," especially with a character like Bayonetta with a plethora of ways to combo. The video covers the most common ways in which Bayo starts her combos, and how to avoid getting roofed. It shows that with proper DI/SDI, one can escape the 0 to death, which shows that her death combos are not guaranteed. She can definitely read the DI, but being able to influence what the Bayo player can follow up with is definitely some helpful knowledge to have. Now if her death combos were 100% guaranteed, then we'd definitely have a problem.

Her combos are still really good and do rack up a lot of damage, but people used to react the same way to ZSS's ladder combos. Look what happened with those, after a while the community figured out how to DI them a lot more effectively and they're not nearly as much of a problem.

The current time in which we got Bayonetta is nowhere near enough time to effectively learn the correct DI/SDI in order to escape Bayo's combos off the top. It takes a lot of time to develop this, and unfortunately a lot of the fanbase would rather spend that time saying that she is broken or requesting to ban the character instead of learning how to play against it. As of right now, a Bayonetta hasn't won anything major (to my knowledge anyway, I'd love to know if they have), so she doesn't seem to be as broken as a lot of the community claims. After a bit, I think the outrage against her will die down, just like with ZSS, Ryu, MK, Yoshi etc. However, I do agree that Bayo does have dumb stuff (Witch Time being the biggest offender), but I still feel it's far too early to understand how a character like Bayo fits with the meta right now.

Of course, I could definitely be wrong about all of this, and Bayo could prove to be as overcentralizing as pre patch Sheik and pre patch Diddy were. Or even worse, Brawl MK *shudders But it's still too early to say that Bayo is broken.

 

[aVocado]

having only 1 person representing a character at a national level shouldb't exactly be a factor in whether a character is broken/dumb or no. Zss really only had nairo and now marss. Rosalina is also dumb any way you looka at her. Luma killing at literally any percent off dair or uair is unacceptable. And she has the best defense and also the best character at keeping everyone out. she punishes your attempts at short hops with dash attack or usmash thanks to luma. Short hops. Shes the best character at keeping you on the ledge and then just taking away your stock because its extremely difficult to get out. Her "weakness" of being exploitable without luma is a bit irrelevant when she can platform camp, roll, and double jump airdodge or stall at the ledge for a measely 13 seconds to get luma back. Her only "real" weakness is a somewhat exploitable recovery that can also be mixed up by recovering high and its ok cuz it has no landing lag and luma can act out of free fall to cover her landing.

And on bayo, i dont think the outrage will die. Shes legitimately terrible in a smash game that has no 0-deaths or barely combos that are more than 3 hits. Shes extremely bad for the meta rn for reasons covered in zero's video. She probably wont win anything big cuz dabuz/nairo/zero/other top players will gatekeep the #1 spot unless they also play bayo.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

This we haven't learned the di for bayo combos reminds me when people thought we weren't diing hoo-hah correctly its very simple diing isn't realistic for getting out of bayo combos your best hope is to just sdi like a god which can also be covered by the bayo and sometimes you just get launched by wt when you sdi. Also bayo's most dumb move isn't witch time it is witch twist.

 

[Endeby]

I am actually very exited about Bayonetta supposedly being the best. Maybe the community finally learn how to SDI.

 

[aVocado]

This we haven't learned the di for bayo combos reminds me when people thought we weren't diing hoo-hah correctly its very simple diing isn't realistic for getting out of bayo combos your best hope is to just sdi like a god. Also bayo's most dumb move isn't witch time it is witch twist.

Pretty much. Nothing pisses me off more than redditards screaming "NO DIIII" or "learn how to di" like wut.

 

[Minwu]

It would be great if Witch Twist had a higher SDI multiplier, that seemed like the most obvious fix to the most borked part of her moveset... Other than that I think Bayonetta is a cool character and sets a good pace for games, and I don't even play her.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

I don't fucking understand why every TO is so fucking bad at seeding people.
Amazing pound seeding highlights
Void>Dabuz
Marss>Ally
Jband over players like false, k9, nakat
And a million more that I can't be bothered to list. What a joke.

 

[Astra]

Can't tell if ZeRo's pulling an April Fools prank or not.

 

[Blitz]

He makes his living off tournaments so that's not a wise decision.

(yes it is a joke)

 

[Focus]

ZeRo also tweeted several times on April 1 looking for someone to make a replica Monado for him, so make of that what you will.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Nairo is out of the tourney losing to Saj and a japanese robin what a shit day for liquid.