Personally I feel very confused by the fact no one even seems to agree on which mon should be tested. Each side is conceding to the other's suspect request, not because they fundamentally agree that the mon is broken, problematic, and an unhealthy metagame presence (as the other side so fervently believes) - but because suspect tests are "fun", "count towards tc", and are "good community engagement" (
??????)
Those things might be true, but those reasons alone shouldn't even come close to being the crutch through which suspects tests are initiated on (IMO). Couldn't agree more with what ABR has said on this. The whole thing made me question if we even
need a suspect test in the first place (perhaps some in one camp secretly feel that supporting the other's suspect request will help trojan in their own afterwards). This is especially ironic as the banning of one side's mon would undeniably give power to the other mon within the meta, yet fsr these 2 mons are being spoken of and treated as if they are completely uninteractive with one another.
(the above is speaking to conversations from outside of this thread too)
As for my personal thoughts on the 3 mons brought up so far:
Mawile: If you really want to overpower Sableye and Lati stalls through banning this then go ahead lol. Personally I don't see a problem with Mawile (enough to ban it) and I think The Hallows elucidated perfectly on the balance it brings to the tier's playstyles. The presence of Mawile this year (and even last year) helped push diversity within stall and balance archetypes -- all of which have been accepted in their own right even outside of checking Mawile (EX: Mega-Aggron balance/stall, Venusaur-Mega, Slowbro-Mega and so on). It isn't the same as when Zygarde was around and you HAD to have phys def Tangrowth on every team; Mawile has pressured fat builds into diversifying itself as an archetype, and I would be sad to see those advancements lost or reduced in usefulness and usage by the absence of Mawile. As for the other MUs, ABR touched on those pretty well.
Kartana: Really don't want to see this going either tbh, while the pro ban Kartana arguments are at least more convincing to myself, it still reads off as the apolocalyptic "SG Mage Syndrome" from some months back. I just question that if its offensive sets are so unbelievably bearing to the metagame then why would players even be taking the leasure of devising and using its utility set to a point that it's considered a meta staple now. It just doesn't seem to add up.
Ditto: Too soon to even be thinking of testing this. I completely disagree with
bro fist on the sentiment that using Ditto is more creative and thoughtful over "brainlessly" loading certain playstyles and strategies. Slapping one mon onto your team with the full confidence of it checking several playstyles isn't more creative or thoughtful than cohesively dedicating 6 mons towards an entirely offensive or defensive win path.
I entirely disagree with the notion that tests are harmless, and that we can have many more because the right outcomes will find themselves. Bans should be exceptions to the base of a tier remaining stable and legitimate, which is jeopardized with overly frequent tests. I don't mean to say that the opinion of the masses is worth nothing, but rather that changes to the status quo should be driven by the council. If the council wishes to change something, then it must request permission from the masses via a suspect test, as it should. This view of tiering and the role of councils may be distasteful to some but the alternative is an entity totally devoid of purpose, so here we are.
Also, since Z0mmy :3 brought up about stats, I thought I'd help chart the usage of these mons throughout the year. I'm working with someone on a custom usage stat script which I will be using for the 2019 master statistics thread leading into the new year -- this means I can get new kinds of metagame statistics than I could before. If there's a data metric you feel would help elucidate a mon's "brokeness" or just any new stats you'd like to see outside of the metrics that are already available then lmk.
* Curated from SPL X, OST XV Playoffs, ST 27 Playoffs, WCoP 19', Snake 3 (Week 7), OLT VI (Semis)
2019 SM OU Master Statistics (Includes Tiebreaks)
SM OU
Leads /
Combos /
Moves + Teammates
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Landorus-Therian | 615 | 48.96% | 50.81% |
| 2 | Tornadus-Therian | 392 | 31.21% | 50.77% |
| 3 | Magearna | 359 | 28.58% | 50.97% |
| 4 | Greninja | 324 | 25.80% | 47.53% |
| 5 | Heatran | 318 | 25.32% | 51.42% |
| 6 | Toxapex | 288 | 22.93% | 46.01% |
| 7 | Kartana | 245 | 19.51% | 49.80% |
| 8 | Rotom-Wash | 236 | 18.79% | 53.39% |
| 9 | Tapu Fini | 224 | 17.83% | 48.21% |
| 10 | Ferrothorn | 220 | 17.52% | 50.00% |
| 11 | Garchomp | 208 | 16.56% | 44.23% |
| 12 | Gliscor | 204 | 16.24% | 49.02% |
| 13 | Tyranitar | 199 | 15.84% | 43.72% |
| 14 | Tapu Bulu | 169 | 13.46% | 53.85% |
| 15 | Celesteela | 153 | 12.18% | 54.90% |
| 16 | Latias | 145 | 11.54% | 47.24% |
| 17 | Excadrill | 143 | 11.39% | 44.76% |
| 18 | Scizor | 141 | 11.23% | 48.94% |
| 19 | Tangrowth | 139 | 11.07% | 44.96% |
| 20 | Mawile | 136 | 10.83% | 52.21% |
| 21 | Zapdos | 118 | 9.39% | 46.19% |
| 22 | Clefable | 115 | 9.16% | 54.35% |
| 23 | Magnezone | 114 | 9.08% | 45.61% |
| 24 | Tapu Koko | 107 | 8.52% | 51.40% |
| 25 | Tapu Lele | 104 | 8.28% | 46.15% |
| 26 | Alakazam | 92 | 7.32% | 44.57% |
| 27 | Victini | 90 | 7.17% | 54.44% |
| 28 | Jirachi | 88 | 7.01% | 48.86% |
| 29 | Medicham | 87 | 6.93% | 50.57% |
| 30 | Serperior | 83 | 6.61% | 46.99% |
| 31 | Chansey | 81 | 6.45% | 51.23% |
| 32 | Kommo-o | 80 | 6.37% | 57.50% |
| 32 | Lopunny | 80 | 6.37% | 52.50% |
| 34 | Charizard | 77 | 6.13% | 51.95% |
| 34 | Weavile | 77 | 6.13% | 37.66% |
| 36 | Volcarona | 74 | 5.89% | 63.51% |
| 37 | Swampert | 69 | 5.49% | 49.28% |
| 38 | Pelipper | 68 | 5.41% | 48.53% |
| 39 | Gastrodon | 59 | 4.70% | 55.93% |
| 40 | Diancie | 56 | 4.46% | 58.93% |
| 41 | Latios | 55 | 4.38% | 52.73% |
| 42 | Reuniclus | 54 | 4.30% | 54.63% |
| 43 | Kyurem-Black | 45 | 3.58% | 46.67% |
| 43 | Skarmory | 45 | 3.58% | 40.00% |
| 45 | Ditto | 44 | 3.50% | 72.73% |
| 46 | Gyarados | 40 | 3.18% | 52.50% |
| 47 | Manaphy | 38 | 3.03% | 52.63% |
| 48 | Kyurem | 37 | 2.95% | 54.05% |
| 48 | Mew | 37 | 2.95% | 52.70% |
| 48 | Slowbro | 37 | 2.95% | 51.35% |
| 51 | Hawlucha | 32 | 2.55% | 62.50% |
| 52 | Venusaur | 31 | 2.47% | 45.16% |
| 53 | Hoopa-Unbound | 28 | 2.23% | 42.86% |
| 54 | Amoonguss | 26 | 2.07% | 57.69% |
| 54 | Hydreigon | 26 | 2.07% | 53.85% |
| 56 | Azumarill | 22 | 1.75% | 63.64% |
| 57 | Pinsir | 20 | 1.59% | 45.00% |
| 58 | Keldeo | 19 | 1.51% | 68.42% |
| 58 | Sableye | 19 | 1.51% | 63.16% |
| 60 | Seismitoad | 17 | 1.35% | 70.59% |
| 61 | Heracross | 16 | 1.27% | 50.00% |
| 62 | Hippowdon | 15 | 1.19% | 53.33% |
| 62 | Thundurus-Therian | 15 | 1.19% | 53.33% |
| 64 | Suicune | 14 | 1.11% | 50.00% |
| 65 | Bisharp | 13 | 1.04% | 69.23% |
| 66 | Gallade | 10 | 0.80% | 60.00% |
| 67 | Pyukumuku | 9 | 0.72% | 88.89% |
| 67 | Alomomola | 9 | 0.72% | 44.44% |
| 67 | Kingdra | 9 | 0.72% | 33.33% |
| 67 | Blacephalon | 9 | 0.72% | 22.22% |
| 71 | Ribombee | 7 | 0.56% | 71.43% |
| 71 | Dragonite | 7 | 0.56% | 57.14% |
| 71 | Crawdaunt | 7 | 0.56% | 28.57% |
| 74 | Mamoswine | 6 | 0.48% | 66.67% |
| 74 | Volcanion | 6 | 0.48% | 50.00% |
| 74 | Zeraora | 6 | 0.48% | 50.00% |
| 74 | Mimikyu | 6 | 0.48% | 50.00% |
| 74 | Aggron | 6 | 0.48% | 41.67% |
| 74 | Krookodile | 6 | 0.48% | 16.67% |
| 80 | Manectric | 5 | 0.40% | 80.00% |
| 80 | Diggersby | 5 | 0.40% | 80.00% |
| 80 | Ninetales-Alola | 5 | 0.40% | 20.00% |
| 83 | Mantine | 4 | 0.32% | 100.00% |
| 83 | Araquanid | 4 | 0.32% | 75.00% |
| 83 | Altaria | 4 | 0.32% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Sharpedo | 4 | 0.32% | 50.00% |
| 83 | Breloom | 4 | 0.32% | 25.00% |
| 83 | Scolipede | 4 | 0.32% | 0.00% |
| 89 | Starmie | 3 | 0.24% | 66.67% |
| 89 | Quagsire | 3 | 0.24% | 50.00% |
| 89 | Beedrill | 3 | 0.24% | 33.33% |
| 89 | Steelix | 3 | 0.24% | 33.33% |
| 89 | Shedinja | 3 | 0.24% | 33.33% |
| 89 | Muk-Alola | 3 | 0.24% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Avalugg | 2 | 0.16% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Salamence | 2 | 0.16% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Rotom-Heat | 2 | 0.16% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Glalie | 2 | 0.16% | 100.00% |
| 95 | Nidoking | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Snorlax | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Talonflame | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Xurkitree | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Slowking | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Moltres | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Zygarde-10% | 2 | 0.16% | 50.00% |
| 95 | Terrakion | 2 | 0.16% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Golem-Alola | 2 | 0.16% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Cresselia | 2 | 0.16% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Marowak-Alola | 2 | 0.16% | 0.00% |
| 95 | Buzzwole | 2 | 0.16% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Tyrantrum | 1 | 0.08% | 100.00% |
| 111 | Corsola | 1 | 0.08% | 100.00% |
| 111 | Mienshao | 1 | 0.08% | 100.00% |
| 111 | Politoed | 1 | 0.08% | 100.00% |
| 111 | Tentacruel | 1 | 0.08% | 100.00% |
| 111 | Camerupt | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Persian-Alola | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Banette | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Uxie | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Raikou | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Butterfree | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Druddigon | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Absol | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Poliwrath | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Venomoth | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Nihilego | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Cloyster | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Shaymin | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Flygon | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Thundurus | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Chimecho | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
| 111 | Meloetta | 1 | 0.08% | 0.00% |
*Always logged the tiebreaks separately to see which mons teams would bring at their most desperate
2019 SM OU Tiebreak Statistics
SM OU
Leads /
Combos /
Moves + Teammates
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1 | Tornadus-Therian | 12 | 46.15% | 50.00% |
| 2 | Landorus-Therian | 11 | 42.31% | 45.45% |
| 3 | Greninja | 7 | 26.92% | 100.00% |
| 3 | Heatran | 7 | 26.92% | 28.57% |
| 3 | Toxapex | 7 | 26.92% | 28.57% |
| 6 | Ferrothorn | 6 | 23.08% | 83.33% |
| 6 | Gliscor | 6 | 23.08% | 66.67% |
| 6 | Magearna | 6 | 23.08% | 50.00% |
| 6 | Tapu Fini | 6 | 23.08% | 33.33% |
| 10 | Chansey | 5 | 19.23% | 80.00% |
| 10 | Magnezone | 5 | 19.23% | 40.00% |
| 12 | Tyranitar | 4 | 15.38% | 25.00% |
| 12 | Latias | 4 | 15.38% | 25.00% |
| 14 | Tapu Bulu | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Mawile | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Swampert | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Pelipper | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Gastrodon | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Clefable | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
| 14 | Zapdos | 3 | 11.54% | 33.33% |
| 14 | Kartana | 3 | 11.54% | 33.33% |
| 22 | Scizor | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Ditto | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Latios | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Victini | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
| 22 | Garchomp | 2 | 7.69% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Tangrowth | 2 | 7.69% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Jirachi | 2 | 7.69% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Diancie | 2 | 7.69% | 50.00% |
| 22 | Charizard | 2 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Excadrill | 2 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Serperior | 2 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Celesteela | 2 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 22 | Weavile | 2 | 7.69% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Rotom-Wash | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Azumarill | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Mamoswine | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Sableye | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Mew | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Aggron | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Reuniclus | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Volcarona | 1 | 3.85% | 100.00% |
| 35 | Muk-Alola | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Suicune | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Breloom | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Sharpedo | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Lopunny | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Manaphy | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Tapu Koko | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Salamence | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Alomomola | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Amoonguss | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Alakazam | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
| 35 | Skarmory | 1 | 3.85% | 0.00% |
Stats that were strictly curated from poffs shouldn't be paid much mind, but they were included here for audit purposes. If someone wants to make an infograph out of this that would be goat.
Mawile: [Rank, Mon, Use, Usage %, Win%]
Master: | 20 | Mawile | 136 | 10.83% | 52.21% |
Tiebreak: |14 | Mawile | 3 | 11.54% | 66.67% |
SPL X: | 21 | Mawile | 18 | 9.18% | 66.67% |
OST XV Poffs: | 17 | Mawile | 7 | 10.61% | 71.43% |
ST 27 Poffs: | 16 | Mawile | 3 | 11.54% | 33.33% |
ST 27 Tours + Poffs: | 16 | Mawile | 393 | 11.28% | 48.09% |
WCoP 19': | 21 | Mawile | 29 | 10.00% | 51.72% |
OLT VI: | 14 | Mawile | 53 | 13.25% | 49.06% |
Snake 3: | 21 | Mawile | 26 | 9.35% | 46.15% |
ST 28: | 16 | Mawile | 232 | 12.73% | 49.57% |
Kartana: [Rank, Mon, Use, Usage %, Win%]
Master: | 7 | Kartana | 245 | 19.51% | 49.80% |
Tiebreak: | 14 | Kartana | 3 | 11.54% | 33.33% |
SPL X: | 11 | Kartana | 33 | 16.84% | 57.58% |
OST XV Poffs: | 6 | Kartana | 14 | 21.21% | 57.14% |
ST 27 Poffs: | 9 | Kartana | 5 | 19.23% | 60.00% |
ST 27 Tours + Poffs: | 9 | Kartana | 624 | 17.91% | 50.96% |
WCoP 19': | 7 | Kartana | 64 | 22.07% | 42.19% |
OLT VI: | 10 | Kartana | 70 | 17.50% | 54.29% |
Snake 3: | 8 | Kartana | 59 | 21.22% | 45.76% |
ST 28: | 8 | Kartana | 382 | 20.97% | 50.65% |
Ditto: [Rank, Mon, Use, Usage %, Win%]
Master: | 45 | Ditto| 44 | 3.50% | 72.73% |
Tiebreak: | 22 | Ditto | 2 | 7.69% | 100.00% |
SPL X: | 41 | Ditto | 5 | 2.55% | 60.00% |
OST XV Poffs: | 55 | Ditto | 1 | 1.52% | 0.00% |
ST 27 Poffs: 0 Usage
ST 27 Tours + Poffs: | 66 | Ditto | 40 | 1.15% | 42.50% |
WCoP 19': | 39 | Ditto | 11 | 3.79% | 72.73% |
OLT VI: | 53 | Ditto | 9 | 2.25% | 77.78% |
Snake 3: | 32 | Ditto | 18 | 6.47% | 77.78% |
ST 28: | 37 | Ditto | 94 | 5.16% | 63.30% |