Stall, my love

[Gideon]

I find Jellicent + entry hazards to be an excellent way of beating stall. Kind of hitting it with its own medicine. Since stall is based around on causing switches to stop threats, if you are able to get hazards on the field it hurts stall, since they also have to A LOT. With the use of taunt, it can screw over Ferrothorn and Chansey/Blissey(beats chansey and blissey 1on1).

It also beats the common stall spinner, Forretress, very easily which is another plus.

 

[Woodchuck]

Alright... since we seem to have come up with myriad ways to beat stall, how about stall itself? Stall hasn't really gotten an opportunity to shine so far in this gen, so I think it would be interesting to discuss how stall has gotten better and what new kinds of stall can be run -- Rain stall used to basically be the only kind.

also bs who changed my title

 

[Molk]

Alright... since we seem to have come up with myriad ways to beat stall, how about stall itself? Stall hasn't really gotten an opportunity to shine so far in this gen, so I think it would be interesting to discuss how stall has gotten better and what new kinds of stall can be run -- Rain stall used to basically be the only kind.

also bs who changed my title

Actually two of the best checks to stall, Sableye and CM reuniclus are also good on stall themself, reuniclus allows you some offense on your stall team, while sableye can act as a spinblocker and stall with priority taunt/will-o-wisp, at least imo.

 

[jessifer]

I've seen types of weather stall, like sand stall. I think it works by wearing down the opponents pokemon with sandstorm damange and taking advantage of the Spd. boost?

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Alright... since we seem to have come up with myriad ways to beat stall, how about stall itself? Stall hasn't really gotten an opportunity to shine so far in this gen, so I think it would be interesting to discuss how stall has gotten better and what new kinds of stall can be run -- Rain stall used to basically be the only kind.

also bs who changed my title

It might seem odd, but I find rain stall to be one of the most effective stalls types by far. Not only does permenant rain allow you to use pokemon like Dusclops and Chansey without worry of passive sand damage, but Politoed itself can run perish song, which allows you to deal with a good majority of stall's threats right there.

 

[aurora]

I find sun stall to be better - bring in loads of Fire-types which know Grass-type moves (like Energy Ball), send out a Ninetales which makes permanent sun, stall any Water-types, and gloat as they all fall to your SolarBeams or Energy Balls.

 

[Furosuto]

Is this just a thread devoted to stall in OU or can we discuss ways of beating stall in other tiers? Cause I've fought stall teams before and I've been able to get my way around them.

 

[Woodchuck]

I'd like to keep this to OU, the other tiers can have their own stall threads.

 

[LafondaOnFire]

Alright... since we seem to have come up with myriad ways to beat stall, how about stall itself? Stall hasn't really gotten an opportunity to shine so far in this gen, so I think it would be interesting to discuss how stall has gotten better and what new kinds of stall can be run -- Rain stall used to basically be the only kind.

also bs who changed my title

It might seem odd, but I find rain stall to be one of the most effective stalls types by far. Not only does permenant rain allow you to use pokemon like Dusclops and Chansey without worry of passive sand damage, but Politoed itself can run perish song, which allows you to deal with a good majority of stall's threats right there.

Well I find that rain stall is one of the most effective in this metagame too. Sure there are other play styles, however gen 5 bringing perma-rain to OU has really given stall a new possibility. Not only (with smart playing) do you keep other weather off the field (hail or sand can really hurt stall) but rain gives an awesome boost to Pokemon who are already capable of stall.

Running Scizor and Ferrothorn on stall rain teams can really help since their 4x fire weakness is comfortably nerfed. I have had some success running bulky Scizor sets with Roost while still packing enough punch to net critical KOs with BP and scouting well with U-Turn. He can take a hit rather well with the right EVs too. And of course Ferrothorn is known for his defensive/stalling capabilities, so the fire attack nerf really helps here.

Also, with Vappy's new Dream World ability, Hydration, I have caused numerous ragequits running a set like: Rest/Scald/Roar/HP Electric. I use various EVs which I cannot still determine which is the best, however, max HP is usually what I use. It depends on whether my team has a physical attacking weakness or special attacking. Anyways, Rest with Hydration in rain is great, healing off all HP in one turn, and Hydration allows you to remove status immediately. Vappy is able to Roar out any threats while surviving a hit and then resting up next turn. Scald is great in rain and burn really helps Vappy tank physical attacks. And then HP Electric is so Jellicent and the like don't wall you if they're your opponent's last Pokemon.

And I have noticed how the title has been changing to reference songs all day xD

I find sun stall to be better - bring in loads of Fire-types which know Grass-type moves (like Energy Ball), send out a Ninetales which makes permanent sun, stall any Water-types, and gloat as they all fall to your SolarBeams or Energy Balls.

What you're describing here is completely sun offense... of course most water Pokemon will be at a disadvantage under sun, but that's why you have 4 move slots. You basically said that sun checks water types. Not at the slightest that sun stalls anything.

 

[BTzz]

Has anyone here ever ran a sucessful sun stall team? The only options I can think of that actually abuse sun are Specially Deffensive/Rest-Talk Heatran, Harvest Exeggutor and Jumpluff/Whimsicott + Ninetales and some other random stallers like Blissey or Tenacruel. I guess you could abuse sub-seeding or Leaf Guard... Idk, I seems horrible on paper, but I'll have to test some of this stuff out.

 

[Woodchuck]

Sun doesn't really lend itself real well to stall; balance seems to be the closest thing. I will say that Gastrodon is an excellent Pokemon on any of the bulkier sun teams, as it gives loads of trouble to rain which gives Sun a lot of trouble.

However, Sun teams don't make for very good stall teams because Ninetales is a terrible staller. It's SR weak, only has passable defenses on the special side, and you can't afford a dead weight slot when you need to cover so many threats in the first place.

 

[Jimera0]

LafondaOnFire, I can't believe you beat me to mentioning Hydration Vaporeon D: I'm literally writing an analysis on it. Just a hint, instead of using HP Electric, run Toxic and 4 EVs in speed instead. This allows you just barely outrun Jellicent and toxic it before it can use taunt, and a badly poisoned Jellicent is a dead Jellicent.

Anyway, I run a semi-stall rain team myself (well, defensively tilted balance is more accurate, but whatever). Hydra-Rest Vaporeon, in my opinion, should be the core of any rain stall team. Why? because despite the overlap with Politoed, its worth it because Vaporeon walls almost everything. Only a few outlandishly powerful Outrages and strong Electric/grass types can take it down, and those are easily dealt with by using team mates (Dusclops and Dragonite for grass, Gatsrodon for electric perhaps?).

So yeah, that's my little bit. I'm no expert on FULL stall so I can't offer much more.

 

[sirndpt]

rain stall removes one of the biggest (sometimes even only) weaknesses of Steel-type walls, and gimps perhaps the best offensive type in existence, while sun just makes Steels even weaker to Dragons. I've thought about it but I haven't even been able to figure out where to start - I just don't see what sun can possibly do for defensive mons. things like Donphan get their Water weakness removed, true, but it's not nearly defensive enough for stall IMO. I'd love to hear from anyone who's made it work though!

EDIT, ^ post reminded me of something: WTF is up with Leaf Guard preventing Rest, GF???

 

[Pocket]

^ not to mention Sun Offense is probably the most difficult playstyle to stall out. It doesn't help that you're already providing the Sun support! Unless you have like a Volcarona in the wings to clean up after stalling has done its job in wearing the opponent down, it may not be worth it. Even then, there's the coverage problem that Woodchuck clearly mentioned - filling a SR, Spiker, Spinner, and sufficient defense to cover most relevant threats in 4 poke slots would probably not work.

 

[The Silent Storm]

I'm an avid stall player but I must say, the excadrill ban was the nail in the coffin for stall
Many sandstall relyed on him for revengekilling and he was also a great rapid spinner.
Not only that but after the exca ban many things like lucario, dragonite, (as if he couldn't get higher) salamence, and HAXORUS (yeah that guy with mold breaker, SD screws quagsire and 6-0ed most stall) make stall life quite difficult.
Imo stall is very close to its end, and only a hella lot ban could save it, but of course it won't happen, I mean it's quite strange banning haxorus

 

[LafondaOnFire]

LafondaOnFire, I can't believe you beat me to mentioning Hydration Vaporeon D: I'm literally writing an analysis on it. Just a hint, instead of using HP Electric, run Toxic and 4 EVs in speed instead. This allows you just barely outrun Jellicent and toxic it before it can use taunt, and a badly poisoned Jellicent is a dead Jellicent.

Anyway, I run a semi-stall rain team myself (well, defensively tilted balance is more accurate, but whatever). Hydra-Rest Vaporeon, in my opinion, should be the core of any rain stall team. Why? because despite the overlap with Politoed, its worth it because Vaporeon walls almost everything. Only a few outlandishly powerful Outrages and strong Electric/grass types can take it down, and those are easily dealt with by using team mates (Dusclops and Dragonite for grass, Gatsrodon for electric perhaps?).

So yeah, that's my little bit. I'm no expert on FULL stall so I can't offer much more.

Oh sorry, I had no clue :P But hey, I never ran Toxic and that sounds like a fantastic idea - Jellicent usually just recovers off HP Electric damage anyways...

And I can't agree more - Vappy is the core of rain stall. I can't think of any examples off by hand (I've been swamped with school work for the past week now) but it tanks any hit and then just rests it off. I'm pretty sure you can survive a DM from Latios and rest it off again and again until they are forced to switch or fire off -6 attacks... lol.

Also, I forgot to mention that Roar works fantastically with entry hazards on your opponent's side. Residual damage really helps with the rain stall play style.

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

You can effectively run a sun semi-stall team with great effect. The idea is very simple, place down hazards, stall around, then after enough redisidual damage, sweep with some sun sweeper. But full out sun stall, is just outclassed by sand, rain, and even weatherless stall, as sun does little defensively, meaning you will almost always waste a slot on Ninetails for a stall team.

 

[Honus]

^ not to mention Sun Offense is probably the most difficult playstyle to stall out. It doesn't help that you're already providing the Sun support! Unless you have like a Volcarona in the wings to clean up after stalling has done its job in wearing the opponent down, it may not be worth it. Even then, there's the coverage problem that Woodchuck clearly mentioned - filling a SR, Spiker, Spinner, and sufficient defense to cover most relevant threats in 4 poke slots would probably not work.

I've found that Rotom-W/Scizor teams with hazards laid by Deo-S is the most difficult. Sun is powerful, but Volcarona can be stopped by Blissey/Gyarados as long as you control the weather. Sawsbuck is probably the biggest threat to Stall on Sun Teams, although next to no one uses it, considering the most common ghost is beaten by it and the only Physical Walls that can truly take it on are Tangrowth and Skarmory.

 

[Axmaster68]

What about Sand Stall, as you get Skarm for a phazer, the boost from Sandstorm for rock types, indirect damage to many opponents, and with SubCM Latias waiting in the wings, you could make their entire team setup fodder, then just set up, and sweep FTW. Has anyone tried that, as I don't have time right now to do so?

 

[Jimera0]

What about Sand Stall, as you get Skarm for a phazer, the boost from Sandstorm for rock types, indirect damage to many opponents, and with SubCM Latias waiting in the wings, you could make their entire team setup fodder, then just set up, and sweep FTW. Has anyone tried that, as I don't have time right now to do so?

I see a problem with that set up though, as Steel types will be the last to be worn down in Sandstorm and Sub CM Latios can't get through Steel types. A different sweeper would make more sense, something like Sub-Sword Dance Landorus maybe.

 

[Yeah Galo Sengan]

The trouble I always have with playing stall is that you will get times where you are just crit/frozen/flinched and lose a key member (and what part of a stall team isn't a key member) and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Part and parcel of the game I guess, but it has led to me leaning toward offense since gen 3.

 

[elchupo]

Stall is the bane of my existence. I run a balanced team that relies heavily on switching into resisted hits and shifting the momentum in my favour. So stall is naturally my mortal enemy. Having said that, I do appreciate a well put together stall team as opposed to the cookie cutter weather abuse teams that clog the ladders (most stall teams still technically abuse weather, but in a less obnoxious way).

The advent of Eviolite and Drizzle has diversified stall a lot more this gen. I will say that the only thing stopping Rain Stall from being more "broken" (for want of a better word) imo, is that it doesn't chip away at health like Hail and SS.

When you take into account all the great Pokemon that have defensive abilities bolstered by the rain (Rain Dish users like Tentacruel, Ludicolo and Blastoise) and the defensive Pokemon who benefit from rain itself (Fire weak Pokemon like Ferrothorn, Forretress and to a lesser degree Scizor) as well the fact that Rain still lends itself to a very offensive play style (Boosting Water type moves, Thunder and Hurricane to obscene levels) means that even though the majority of Pokemon on rain stall will be defensive they still have the ability to hit very hard, which is something no other type of weather stall can really do.

The fact that Rain stall has a large number of viable abusers that aren't Water types is also another reason that it is very good (Defensive Dragonite, Zapdos, etc).

Damn, all this talk is making me want to actually make a rain stall team.

 

[Razza]

deoxys-d is a great stall team member, it can sponge hits with its mixed defenses, is an incredible spiker and beats cm reuniclus with taunt and night shade, with its base 50hp it also makes a very good reciever of wishes, you dont even need blissey to be passing them, a jirachi's wish will almost fully heal it.

Also, apart from spdeftran what on a stall team can take on sableye? I was thinking that a gliscor may be the only option, but it loses to ice beam mew.

 

[Lady Shinki]

I love using Sub/Protect/EQ/Toxic Gliscor on stall teams. The only problem is that you need your own Gliscor counter, since it can switch in for free and get a free Swords Dance/attack off.

 

[Smith]

I just made a post in the weather thread that I also think is relevant to discussion here so I'll repost it in the least self-indulgent manner possible!