Why did Golisopod get UR?
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Resource SS UU Crown Tundra Viability Ranking Thread
- Thread starter Hilomilo
- Start date
The VR team believes Golisopod doesn’t have the merit nor consistency nor relevancy to really have a rank. It’s very hard to fit on teams being a Water-type vulnerable to Scald and often ends up requiring too much support to make it work, lacking the utility other common Water-types provide. All the stuff it can check like Mamoswine, Zygarde-10%, and Excadrill eventually overcome it because of its lack of reliable recovery unless running Leech Life. It’s ability can also be a hinderance and keep it from taking hits when needed. It does have its pros, but the cons are enough to make the VR team UR Golisopod.
The rise of Pokémon like Chansey, Slowking, Mandibuzz, and Zygarde-10% alongside the continued dominance of Celesteela and SpDef Swampert definitely play a role in Nidoking’s drop, but also Nidoking just struggles to define itself too much. It’s a slower frail breaker that checks nothing you want a Ground-type to check. It’s very prediction relaint and a simple common core of Aegislash + Salamence has Nidoking play guessing games with its moves where if it clicks wrong it gets badly punished. The rise of Mamoswine and Zygarde-10% also give it big competition as Ground-type Wallbreaker a due to their STABS being more spammable. Still a scary breaker but Nidoking’s faults have become more apparent lately, leading to a drop.
pokemonisfun
Banned deucer.
Nomming Registeel to B+ rank on the basis of the following set
stanky clanky (Registeel) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Rest
This set has been known as "Chinese Registeel" or "Demon Registeel" as it's been used several times by team China in UUWC last year, such as by fyfyk here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8uu-573695
Other users like KSt3ve and Feliburn have used it to some extent and may have opinions on it.
The main thing is this: it's really strong as a set up sweeper and most of the things that naturally beat it are uncommon, and most of "natural" Registeel counters like Moltres simply lose if they switch into the wrong boosting move.
More specific trends:
Game 1 - Zygarde and Excadrill simply do not threaten Registeel after an Iron Defense and get destroyed by Body Press. Crobat is a quad resist but is simply set up fodder, as it eventually has to Roost. Slowking easily dies. This is basically a pure MU win against an otherwise normal UU team
Game 2 - Another nice MU win - Rotom-H simply does nothing to stop Registeel and the win could have been even cleaner if the Trick was scouted, but ultimately, it just wins.
Game 3 - Against an Aegislash this time, which supposedly hard walls Registeel, but Registeel still comes out on top since Aegislash had to pp stall a Chansey earlier on in the game. Boosters like Salamence simply cannot keep up with Registeel and lose vs it, particularly if you can afford Grassy Surge support.
Game 4 - As mentioned earlier, Moltres simply loses to Registeel if it switches in an Amnesia and back up supporters like Conkeldurr and Choice Band Mamoswine simply cannot make a dent in Registeel after he gets going.
Of course the set has weaknesses - you're going to have to have something for Polteageist (but Polteageist itself is a fisher which you always have to prep for lest you just lose) and Chandelure, but frankly, not much else can take advantage of you. Spikes Skarmory might be annoying with Iron Defense but most of our hazard control can beat it.
This is honestly just a great sweeper which can also double as a wall - for example, you can switch into a Gyarados that wants to boost and just boost yourself and kill it quickly. I can easily see it going to the A ranks but I am completely serious when I say it should be B+ as a strong metagame threat right now.
stanky clanky (Registeel) @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Amnesia
- Rest
This set has been known as "Chinese Registeel" or "Demon Registeel" as it's been used several times by team China in UUWC last year, such as by fyfyk here https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8uu-573695
Other users like KSt3ve and Feliburn have used it to some extent and may have opinions on it.
The main thing is this: it's really strong as a set up sweeper and most of the things that naturally beat it are uncommon, and most of "natural" Registeel counters like Moltres simply lose if they switch into the wrong boosting move.
More specific trends:
- The x4 fighting resist that can beat Registeel: Calm Mind Glowbro, Calm Mind Hatterene (actually it's not clear if Hatterene even wins) and Nasty Plot Togekiss have all been lowered most recently in the VR update.
- Aegislash remains the main ghost and has been lowered also recently. Importantly, the standard Aegislash set of Kings Shield, Toxic, Close Combat and Shadow Ball does not even beat this Registeel set, it simply gets PP stalled.
- While Chandelure is good and a counter, it's been somewhat pushed aside as an Amoonguss punisher in favor of Vanilluxe
Game 1 - Zygarde and Excadrill simply do not threaten Registeel after an Iron Defense and get destroyed by Body Press. Crobat is a quad resist but is simply set up fodder, as it eventually has to Roost. Slowking easily dies. This is basically a pure MU win against an otherwise normal UU team
Game 2 - Another nice MU win - Rotom-H simply does nothing to stop Registeel and the win could have been even cleaner if the Trick was scouted, but ultimately, it just wins.
Game 3 - Against an Aegislash this time, which supposedly hard walls Registeel, but Registeel still comes out on top since Aegislash had to pp stall a Chansey earlier on in the game. Boosters like Salamence simply cannot keep up with Registeel and lose vs it, particularly if you can afford Grassy Surge support.
Game 4 - As mentioned earlier, Moltres simply loses to Registeel if it switches in an Amnesia and back up supporters like Conkeldurr and Choice Band Mamoswine simply cannot make a dent in Registeel after he gets going.
Of course the set has weaknesses - you're going to have to have something for Polteageist (but Polteageist itself is a fisher which you always have to prep for lest you just lose) and Chandelure, but frankly, not much else can take advantage of you. Spikes Skarmory might be annoying with Iron Defense but most of our hazard control can beat it.
This is honestly just a great sweeper which can also double as a wall - for example, you can switch into a Gyarados that wants to boost and just boost yourself and kill it quickly. I can easily see it going to the A ranks but I am completely serious when I say it should be B+ as a strong metagame threat right now.
Nominating Vaporeon for C.
Vaporeon has a lot of great competition in UU for the defensive Water-type slot, so what does it provide that other Water-types don't? I'll be talking about that in this post:
Vaporeon has a lot of great competition in UU for the defensive Water-type slot, so what does it provide that other Water-types don't? I'll be talking about that in this post:
- Wish Support: Vaporeon is able to heal up frail or weakened teammates to keep them going in a battle longer than they normally would. This pairs especially well with teammates that hold Life Orb and wear themselves down via recoil, such as Mamoswine.
- Haze: Vaporeon deters many setup sweepers and can attempt to PP stall their attacking moves through the use of Haze, its great natural bulk, and Wish + Protect.
- Water immunity via Water Absorb: Where other Water-types can still be threatened by very strong Water-type attacks like Choice Specs Primarina's Hydro Pump or Belly Drum Azumarill's Aqua Jet, Vaporeon is instead entirely immune. This also allows it to switch into these attacks to restore its own HP.
- Naturally high Special Attack: Even without investment, Vaporeon reaches 256 SpA, meaning that it is able to threaten Scalds that not only burn but can heavily damage Water-weak Pokemon on their own. Some example calcs are included below:
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 252 SpD Excadrill: 194-230 (53.7 - 63.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Krookodile: 252-296 (63.9 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lycanroc-Dusk: 266-314 (91.4 - 107.9%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 282-332 (78.1 - 91.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Moltres: 216-254 (62.9 - 74%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Nidoking: 236-278 (77.8 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Nihilego: 150-176 (41.6 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Black Sludge recovery
(not Water-weak but so frail it may as well be)
0 SpA Vaporeon Scald vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-10%: 108-127 (43.3 - 51%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO - Outstanding bulk: Even among defensive Water-types, Vaporeon's bulk stands out. With maximum investment, it reaches 464 HP, and full Defense investment patches up its weaker defense stat to complement this. The pure Water-typing also allows it to take Grass-type hits in a pinch (unlike Swampert) and not be neutral to Steel or weak to Dark like its competitors Primarina and Slowking. Some example calcs to show how well it takes hits:
252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Lycanroc-Dusk Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 201-238 (43.3 - 51.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 230-270 (49.5 - 58.1%) -- 62.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 280-330 (60.3 - 71.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Moltres-Galar Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 171-202 (36.8 - 43.5%) -- 99.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Vaporeon: 226-266 (48.7 - 57.3%) -- 46.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 181-214 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 241-285 (51.9 - 61.4%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1498801699-cvnr8l2qre6v0vgsdv833jyvgez4mzfpw
Vaporeon's Wish support allows Nihilego to forego Black Sludge to run another item (I am using Payapa Berry to be able to switch into Thundurus-Therian) and restores it to full health to allow it to win the game.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1498812863-bjnk4ede0pj0p0bo5carambzgk7eo1zpw
Vaporeon helps to stave off Milotic and Choice Specs Espeon while scaring Steelix out.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1498865575-72sgnxgsd3ceb0vuagejy17ourpc1bepw
Vaporeon's Wish support helps to keep Excadrill healthy and Protect helps to slow down Sun.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1499062883-o62qdhjn063vd6b899y2ma2ad5y9ajjpw
Vaporeon switches into a Zydgarde-10% and tanks Thousand Arrows easily, responding with a Scald burn to cause a forfeit.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1499898307-cmjev2p71a9s1fv2xvpo6rpfl5xj8zipw
I played poorly at the start but Vaporeon is able to hold the game together against a Sun team, Hazing away Hatterene's Calm Minds and threatening Darmanitan, Torkoal, and a (seemingly) Toxic-less Swampert.
- https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1499908569-nzp939u0q2a2l293qtenkcq906owxkbpw
Oops no boosts for Belly Drum Azu!
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Nominating Centiskorch to C+
This may seem like an immense stretch for an old forgotten UU Pokémon who fell to UR due to power creep, but lately players have been testing this mon and it is amazing at the role it undertakes in the current balance teams populated UU metagame.
Set-
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
Set details-
252 attack for maximum damage, 212 speed to outrun azumarill and specs primarina and 44 hp is leftovers.
What is the purpose?
Wall breaking Ofc, most defensive teams are unable to answer this mon as it easily ploughs through the likes of Jirachi, Swampert, Amonguss, Celesteela and chansey revolving defensive teams. Defensive pokemon such as moltres, rotom heat, salamence and mandibuzz may seem to be good switch ins, but knock off does good work of them by knocking their respective Heavy Duty Boots and making them incapable of switching in again if rocks are up.
Notable calcs- (Vs defensive teams)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 254-302 (63.8 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 246-290 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 398-470 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 174-206 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Primarina: 286-338 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 318-374 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Matchup Vs offensive teams
May seem as if offensive teams really give this mon a hard time.. but you are wrong! Offensive teams usually have to 1 for 1 vs this mon, which is big as excadrill is usually a sacrifice stealth rocker and the rest 5 pokemon have to take down the 6.
Notable calcs- (Vs offense)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 288-342 (88.6 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Centiskorch: 226-267 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Centiskorch: 228-270 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 316-374 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 318-374 (96 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Flaws- (cons)
Too slow, is not that great VS HO but is good vs defensive teams.
Usually mises on KO's.
Gets revenged killed by faster stuff.
Replays-
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500553067 (centiskorch ruins my opponent)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500562888 (not dead weight vs offense and takes out a ninetales in the sun)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500565395-rxqpe2gmjf43qldvrhlb1asu2wfz4mapw (low ladder throws the game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500570694-yphafqpbka8id2la38cgs6ifi79239fpw (Vs balance matchup)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500572802-wpo6azzkj4082uw14h6z5pl30rq9q0npw (takes down primarina and rhyperior lives at 1 percent :( )
Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
This may seem like an immense stretch for an old forgotten UU Pokémon who fell to UR due to power creep, but lately players have been testing this mon and it is amazing at the role it undertakes in the current balance teams populated UU metagame.
Set-
Centiskorch @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 212 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Power Whip
- Fire Lash
- Leech Life
Set details-
252 attack for maximum damage, 212 speed to outrun azumarill and specs primarina and 44 hp is leftovers.
What is the purpose?
Wall breaking Ofc, most defensive teams are unable to answer this mon as it easily ploughs through the likes of Jirachi, Swampert, Amonguss, Celesteela and chansey revolving defensive teams. Defensive pokemon such as moltres, rotom heat, salamence and mandibuzz may seem to be good switch ins, but knock off does good work of them by knocking their respective Heavy Duty Boots and making them incapable of switching in again if rocks are up.
Notable calcs- (Vs defensive teams)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 254-302 (63.8 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 408-480 (100.9 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Jirachi: 264-312 (77.4 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 246-290 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 152-180 (45.5 - 53.8%) -- 37.9% chance to 2HKO (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 398-470 (110.2 - 130.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 164-194 (40.5 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Fire Lash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Bulu: 174-206 (50.5 - 59.8%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery (kills after defense drop)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 252 HP / 132 Def Primarina: 286-338 (78.5 - 92.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking: 318-374 (80.7 - 94.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Matchup Vs offensive teams
May seem as if offensive teams really give this mon a hard time.. but you are wrong! Offensive teams usually have to 1 for 1 vs this mon, which is big as excadrill is usually a sacrifice stealth rocker and the rest 5 pokemon have to take down the 6.
Notable calcs- (Vs offense)
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 288-342 (88.6 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Hydreigon Draco Meteor vs. 44 HP / 0 SpD Centiskorch: 226-267 (64.2 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 44 HP / 0 Def Centiskorch: 228-270 (64.7 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Centiskorch Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 316-374 (92.3 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Krookodile: 318-374 (96 - 112.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Flaws- (cons)
Too slow, is not that great VS HO but is good vs defensive teams.
Usually mises on KO's.
Gets revenged killed by faster stuff.
Replays-
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500553067 (centiskorch ruins my opponent)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500562888 (not dead weight vs offense and takes out a ninetales in the sun)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500565395-rxqpe2gmjf43qldvrhlb1asu2wfz4mapw (low ladder throws the game)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500570694-yphafqpbka8id2la38cgs6ifi79239fpw (Vs balance matchup)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500572802-wpo6azzkj4082uw14h6z5pl30rq9q0npw (takes down primarina and rhyperior lives at 1 percent :( )
Thanks for reading and have a nice day.
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Cool nom for sure, just wanna ask- have you tried White Smoke? Seems like it'd help a lot for beating up your main counter in Salamence, and Flash Fire seems like it has limited use since the tier doesn't really have that many Fires, especially not ones that Centi wants to switch into.
Main reason I'm asking is because if you hit a Salamence with Fire Lash as it comes in and then Leech Life on the Roost (being careful of Hurricane of course), you can hit it for a lot:
252+ Atk Centiskorch Leech Life vs. -1 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 238-282 (71.9 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
I like this one though! Brings back memories of a couple of years ago when Centi was actually pretty common :sob:
Yeah White smoke is viable too! But since mence runs a lot of hp and some defense investment flash fire is probably better in most situations
Flash Fire is very helpful vs rotom heat if you have an electric immunity in the team
Tapu Bulu has a great defensive typing that allows it to check the more offensive metagame, along with passive recovery from Grassy Terrain and possibly Leftovers, keeps mons in check like Zygarde-10%, It’s Swords Dance set allows it to dismantle slower teams with ease once there check to it are KO’ed, Access to coverage such as Zen Headbutt and Stone Edge allows to nail either Moltres or Amoonguss only make Tapu Bulu that more problematic as the opponent would have limited options to play around the surprise factor that it has, tbh, the recent voting represents it poorly rn and bc Tapu Bulu has these unique traits, it should put higher on here as the majority of offensive mons are pressured to run super-effective coverage just to make any progress.
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact / Crunch
- Facade
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Giga Impact / Crunch
- Facade
- Superpower
- Wild Charge
Overview
Stoutland’s base attack of 110 in conjunction with Choice Band and a decent speed tier makes it a great wallbreaker that can take advantage of Poison with Facade, or it’s checks with the colourful movepool Stoutland has, Scrappy and Superpower allow it to offensively check Aegislash as it’s outsped by Stoutland, having the Steel Type, and can’t use priority moves, via Shadow Sneak thanks to Stoutland’s Normal Typing, Wild Charge is mandatory so that it can 2HKO Skarmory which we would get walled otherwise, the last move really depends on the team Stoutland is being used on, Giga Impact is an high risk, high reward move that has a 25% chance of OHKOing Amoonguss after Stealth Rock damage while also hitting hard as possible, however, Crunch can be used to hit Jirachi and Slowking super-effectively without any drawback.
Flaws
It has unreasonable bulk, meaning that it can’t take many hits, Stoutland also dislikes switching into hazards constantly, horrible defensive typing and lack of reliable recovery making it have a little defensive niche what so ever.
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 160+ Def Skarmory: 174-206 (52 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 333-393 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Giga Impact vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 333-393 (77 - 90.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Replays
Other than that, VR seems fair and balanced atm
Im going to regret this…
As someone who has tried Soutland before, I disagree with it rising to C+.
You state here that Stoutland is able to function as an exemplary wallbreaker, but it is forced to use Giga Impact - a move that prevents the user from moving the next turn - to have a shot of OHKOing the most common physical wall in the tier. The shot isn't even that great -- 1/4 are not reliable odds. Essentially my point boils down to this: in my opinion, there is no reason to use Stoutland on a team when there are other, better wallbreakers available such as Conkeldurr and Sirfetch'd, both of which do what Stoutland wants to do but better. Sure, Stoutland is able to defeat Aegislash and Jirachi, but so are things such as Lycanroc-Dusk, except Lycanroc-Dusk has a greater offensive prowess, isn't locked into one move, and is significantly faster.
Why would you use Giga Impact when Psychic Fangs 2HKOs on the switch?
252+ Atk Choice Band Stoutland Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 252-298 (58.3 - 68.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Outside of that part, Stoutland would still struggle to break Tangrowth, although it can deal with most of the other walls in the tier (with correct prediction ofc) and it is neat that it can beat Aegislash effectively. I'd say it should be C rank
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TailGlowVM
Now 100% more demonic
You might want to use Giga Impact because Psychic Fangs is weak enough that Amoonguss can still scout it, so your opponent can get a free switch to any Steel-type, Dark-type, etc and be healthy enough to take a hit later. On the other hand, Giga Impact will leave it at low enough health that a teammate could be able to break through the weakened Amoonguss later.
This is wrong. Giga Impact has recharge turn, so Amoonguss can recover itself with no risks.
I think Stoutland is not enough to be C but you should run sleep talk if you want to break Amoonguss.
TailGlowVM
Now 100% more demonic
Amoonguss is left at less than half health from Regenerator recovery after coming in on Choice Band-boosted Giga Impact though. Even if it has Synthesis, it still has to switch out after recovering next turn, and Normal-resists are pretty limited, so the opponent probably has only one Pokemon to switch into Giga Impact and double-switching isn't going to be hard.
Let's move on from discussion on Stoutland. This has become an unnecessary back-and-forth on damage calcs (reminder to refrain from posting one-liners please), which isn't productive conversation for the thread. The ranking team will take note of the nomination in our next voting slate.
2 short noms after a week of the update.
to a+
I honestly regret not ranking Celesteela up to A+ originally, as now I would say it's a top 5 Pokemon for sure. Its classic Leech Seed + Protect set still checks Excadrill, Jirachi, and Salamence beautifully, and with physical defense investment makes it a fantastic mixed wall, letting it take on physically offensive threats like Mamoswine without having to be in pristine condition like fully specially defensive sets. Offensive Autotomize + Meteor Beam sets always have good surprise factor, outspeeding and then crushing its checks such as Moltres and Thundurus-T, sweeping late-game quite easily.
to a
Cobalion is the definition of role compression, as it is combines Speed control, Stealth Rock, and a pivot all into one. Its typing lets it also take advantage of many of the Pokemon already considered fast like Nihilego and Zarude. Stone Edge also lets it dispose of Salamence and Moltres trying to Defog Stealth Rock away. Cobalion also lets it nail Salazzle and Azelf that outspeed it. Volt Switch also lets it escape counters like Aegislash as well. It is also the best Knock Off switch in, since it outspeeds most of the users and takes advantage of the Justified boosts it gets. Cobalion also has the great advantage of not being outclassed by other Fighting-types like it was in the past, since they were either banned, risen to OU, or fallen off, leaving it as the best Fighting-type available.
I honestly regret not ranking Celesteela up to A+ originally, as now I would say it's a top 5 Pokemon for sure. Its classic Leech Seed + Protect set still checks Excadrill, Jirachi, and Salamence beautifully, and with physical defense investment makes it a fantastic mixed wall, letting it take on physically offensive threats like Mamoswine without having to be in pristine condition like fully specially defensive sets. Offensive Autotomize + Meteor Beam sets always have good surprise factor, outspeeding and then crushing its checks such as Moltres and Thundurus-T, sweeping late-game quite easily.
Cobalion is the definition of role compression, as it is combines Speed control, Stealth Rock, and a pivot all into one. Its typing lets it also take advantage of many of the Pokemon already considered fast like Nihilego and Zarude. Stone Edge also lets it dispose of Salamence and Moltres trying to Defog Stealth Rock away. Cobalion also lets it nail Salazzle and Azelf that outspeed it. Volt Switch also lets it escape counters like Aegislash as well. It is also the best Knock Off switch in, since it outspeeds most of the users and takes advantage of the Justified boosts it gets. Cobalion also has the great advantage of not being outclassed by other Fighting-types like it was in the past, since they were either banned, risen to OU, or fallen off, leaving it as the best Fighting-type available.
I'd like to nom Haxorus to B- (at least). Haxorus is a fantastic wallbreaker in the tier, its able to use it's massive attack stat and decent coverage to 2hko just about every defensive mon apart from Tangrowth, Skarmory, and Steela(it has a 98% chance to 2hko both tang with outrage and steela with close combat if you use a choice band instead of a life orb) which it can still do respectable damage to.
Just to name a few:
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 224-265 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 494-582 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowking: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 304-359 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 259-305 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
On top of that Haxorus's speed tier is fantastic for a wallbreaker as it sits right below Hydreigon. This means that it can abuse the entire mid speed tier as it threatens most things it outspeeds with an ohko.
Haxorus sports stellar coverage for a dragon type. With access to poison jab for fairy types, close combat and earthquake for steel types, and first impression for priority against the likes of Zarude, Venusaur, and Azelf; Haxorus is able to cover the vast majority of the tier depending on your needs. On top of that Haxorus has access to both dragon dance and swords dance, something that sets itself apart from other dragon types in the tier.
Speaking of which, Haxorus also has a lot to offer over its cousins, Salamence and Hydreigon. Compared to Salamence, Haxorus actually benefits by lacking a flying type. It doesn't need to run heavy duty boots, and can survive priority moves from Mamoswine and Lycanrock. On top of that, its physical coverage is much more varied than Mence's, as mentioned above. Haxorus has much more favorable matchups against the likes of Chansey, Krook, and Rotom just to name a few. Hydreigon is also often compared to Haxorus due to the fact that they came out together; and while Hydreigon is slightly faster, Haxorus isn't completely walled by every fairy type.
As for items Haxorus appreciates the extra power that choice band provides; however, choice band gives it much more initial power and doesn't require recoil damage at the cost of being able to set up. Haxorus's speed makes it a fantastic choice scarf user as it is able to outspeed many of it's checks and even other scarfers like Krook(the scarf set turns it into a lure for many of its faster checks as well). Lum berry is probably ideal for a swords dance stallbreaker set allowing it to set up freely on the likes of Chansey or Amoongus.
Haxorus is primarily countered by faster threats like dazzling gleam Azelf or Zydog. On top of that its longevity is something to be desired as it is easily chipped down by rocky helmet regenerator spam and hazards. It also suffers quite heavily from 4mss syndrome as when you run sword dance dragon dance or first impression you leave holes in your coverage. The worst example of this has got to be tapu bulu which completely ignores you if you're not running pjab.
In summary, Haxorus is a versatile wallbreaker that can carve a niche for itself on a wide vareity of teams. By no means is it perfect, but I think that its positive qualities heavily outweigh its negative ones.
Here you can really see the scarf sets potential as haxorus tears through this entire team(before I misplay and lose):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1504109157
Hax dispatches a Keldeo and an Azelf: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1504738334-yxe9e2790ct1uz24oi3h7vxjlk4e0ccpw
Band set shows off its breaking power:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500493726-umm7xvxulru13bl4ez5hl64zar4tc3fpw
And here it is again:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1481126645-722j0gaegn411fuo48nan0bf7xt540fpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1505765591
(more replays to come I wasn't able to get very many at 1400 elo tonight)
Just to name a few:
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 248 HP / 92+ Def Mandibuzz: 224-265 (52.9 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 494-582 (70.1 - 82.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Slowking: 253-300 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Swampert: 304-359 (75.2 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Amoonguss: 259-305 (59.9 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
On top of that Haxorus's speed tier is fantastic for a wallbreaker as it sits right below Hydreigon. This means that it can abuse the entire mid speed tier as it threatens most things it outspeeds with an ohko.
Haxorus sports stellar coverage for a dragon type. With access to poison jab for fairy types, close combat and earthquake for steel types, and first impression for priority against the likes of Zarude, Venusaur, and Azelf; Haxorus is able to cover the vast majority of the tier depending on your needs. On top of that Haxorus has access to both dragon dance and swords dance, something that sets itself apart from other dragon types in the tier.
Speaking of which, Haxorus also has a lot to offer over its cousins, Salamence and Hydreigon. Compared to Salamence, Haxorus actually benefits by lacking a flying type. It doesn't need to run heavy duty boots, and can survive priority moves from Mamoswine and Lycanrock. On top of that, its physical coverage is much more varied than Mence's, as mentioned above. Haxorus has much more favorable matchups against the likes of Chansey, Krook, and Rotom just to name a few. Hydreigon is also often compared to Haxorus due to the fact that they came out together; and while Hydreigon is slightly faster, Haxorus isn't completely walled by every fairy type.
As for items Haxorus appreciates the extra power that choice band provides; however, choice band gives it much more initial power and doesn't require recoil damage at the cost of being able to set up. Haxorus's speed makes it a fantastic choice scarf user as it is able to outspeed many of it's checks and even other scarfers like Krook(the scarf set turns it into a lure for many of its faster checks as well). Lum berry is probably ideal for a swords dance stallbreaker set allowing it to set up freely on the likes of Chansey or Amoongus.
Haxorus is primarily countered by faster threats like dazzling gleam Azelf or Zydog. On top of that its longevity is something to be desired as it is easily chipped down by rocky helmet regenerator spam and hazards. It also suffers quite heavily from 4mss syndrome as when you run sword dance dragon dance or first impression you leave holes in your coverage. The worst example of this has got to be tapu bulu which completely ignores you if you're not running pjab.
In summary, Haxorus is a versatile wallbreaker that can carve a niche for itself on a wide vareity of teams. By no means is it perfect, but I think that its positive qualities heavily outweigh its negative ones.
Here you can really see the scarf sets potential as haxorus tears through this entire team(before I misplay and lose):
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1504109157
Hax dispatches a Keldeo and an Azelf: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1504738334-yxe9e2790ct1uz24oi3h7vxjlk4e0ccpw
Band set shows off its breaking power:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1500493726-umm7xvxulru13bl4ez5hl64zar4tc3fpw
And here it is again:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1481126645-722j0gaegn411fuo48nan0bf7xt540fpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8uu-1505765591
(more replays to come I wasn't able to get very many at 1400 elo tonight)
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Ur -> Cas it got put on this team as a TR setter due to encore, stealth rock, and HW compression ad its seen on this team https://pokepast.es/993d634b397c6e80 . I believe it deserves to be ranked alongside the other setters in UU especially as hattrene is seen as a poor one and due to its excellent role compression
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scorbunnys
Don't dream your life, but live your dream. #Bunny
Might do some quick noms cause why not
A -> A+
I still don't get why did it stayed A last slate, this mon has proven to be the best Defog user in the tier due to its reliable recovery, Intimidate access and good typing, allowing it to check dangerous threats like Zarude and Keldeo, plus it also pairs quite well with stuff like Spin Excadrill in order to keep hazzards off with much more ease. 3 attacks is also fine if you already have enough counterplay against hazzards, since it kinda just tears apart teams without Primarina or Chansey due to its solid dual STAB and Flamethrower is really nice coverage for Steel-types like Skarmory or Aegislash, plus it's probably better than some of the A+ stuff so yeah it should rise in my eyes.
A+ -> A
This mon is not bad, it just feels like it needs slightly more support than it's A+ fellas and it's harder to fit than them too, since even though it kinda warps teambuilding due to its solid coverage and 145 SpA Volt Switch, with the uptick of mons like Salazzle, Azelf, Zygarde-10% and Keldeo, it has clearly gotten worse, plus it has some 4MSS, as you want Volt Switch / Knock Off / Psychic / Focus Blast ideally, but you also want Thunderbolt to break through Slowking, Grass Knot to break through Swampert and even U-turn to an extent in order to pivot out Ground-types and Zarude, and even though you can accommodate the moves slots depending on what your team needs, it still feels kinda awkward sometimes and it's not on par of Primarina, Zarude and even Salamence imo, thus it should drop. Not to mention it also heavily dislikes Rude dominance, since this thing stops it from tearing apart teams, chipping it heavily with Darkest Lariat + U-Turn and Thundurus-T needs to hit a Focus Blast to hit back.
B -> B+
While I don't think this thing is good enough to be in the A ranks, I don't think it has gotten that worse since it still offers Grassy Terrain Support, which helps meta staples like Swampert or Tentacruel, keeping them healthy and in Tentacruel's case, it can actually tank an EQ from Excadrill under Grassy Terrain (252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 100 Def Tentacruel in Grassy Terrain: 210-248 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery). Its also a damn good wincon, since Dark-Grass coverage allows it to take advantage of teams that rely on Aegislash as their Bulu check and SD Synth + Grassy Terrain recovery allows it to stay healthy against foes like Thundurus-T, Hydreigon and Zarude, so it definitely deserves to rise a little.
B+ to A-
I believe this thing should rise back to A ranks, since it can break through teams with Close Combat and Stone Edge, since this STAB combo has few-to-no-resists and Crunch allows it to break through Aegislash + it also heavily (and with heavily I mean heavily) appreciates the Skarmory dropoff in usage and it also enjoys Mandibuzz and Nihilego rise. This is not even all, since to ice the cake it has Accelerock, allowing it to revenge kill threats like Salazzle and DD Mence/Gyara after chip, which ain't rly hard to get, so it definitely deserves to rise.
A- to B+
This is probably a hot take, but I believe it should drop since it hates Amoonguss being so common and it's harder to fit than before with other Grass options like Zarude and Tapu Bulu being also good right now and being a Grass-Type that sucks into Primarina if not running AV rly sucks, since it wants Rocky Helmet as well in order to chip down Zarude when it U-turns and it also loves to have Synthesis, so honestly yeah drop it.
I also agree with Coba rising, Celesteela rising, Vaporeon, Centiskorch & Mesprit getting ranked and Registeel rising, cya.
A -> A+I still don't get why did it stayed A last slate, this mon has proven to be the best Defog user in the tier due to its reliable recovery, Intimidate access and good typing, allowing it to check dangerous threats like Zarude and Keldeo, plus it also pairs quite well with stuff like Spin Excadrill in order to keep hazzards off with much more ease. 3 attacks is also fine if you already have enough counterplay against hazzards, since it kinda just tears apart teams without Primarina or Chansey due to its solid dual STAB and Flamethrower is really nice coverage for Steel-types like Skarmory or Aegislash, plus it's probably better than some of the A+ stuff so yeah it should rise in my eyes.
A+ -> AThis mon is not bad, it just feels like it needs slightly more support than it's A+ fellas and it's harder to fit than them too, since even though it kinda warps teambuilding due to its solid coverage and 145 SpA Volt Switch, with the uptick of mons like Salazzle, Azelf, Zygarde-10% and Keldeo, it has clearly gotten worse, plus it has some 4MSS, as you want Volt Switch / Knock Off / Psychic / Focus Blast ideally, but you also want Thunderbolt to break through Slowking, Grass Knot to break through Swampert and even U-turn to an extent in order to pivot out Ground-types and Zarude, and even though you can accommodate the moves slots depending on what your team needs, it still feels kinda awkward sometimes and it's not on par of Primarina, Zarude and even Salamence imo, thus it should drop. Not to mention it also heavily dislikes Rude dominance, since this thing stops it from tearing apart teams, chipping it heavily with Darkest Lariat + U-Turn and Thundurus-T needs to hit a Focus Blast to hit back.
B -> B+While I don't think this thing is good enough to be in the A ranks, I don't think it has gotten that worse since it still offers Grassy Terrain Support, which helps meta staples like Swampert or Tentacruel, keeping them healthy and in Tentacruel's case, it can actually tank an EQ from Excadrill under Grassy Terrain (252 Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 100 Def Tentacruel in Grassy Terrain: 210-248 (57.8 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery and Grassy Terrain recovery). Its also a damn good wincon, since Dark-Grass coverage allows it to take advantage of teams that rely on Aegislash as their Bulu check and SD Synth + Grassy Terrain recovery allows it to stay healthy against foes like Thundurus-T, Hydreigon and Zarude, so it definitely deserves to rise a little.
B+ to A-I believe this thing should rise back to A ranks, since it can break through teams with Close Combat and Stone Edge, since this STAB combo has few-to-no-resists and Crunch allows it to break through Aegislash + it also heavily (and with heavily I mean heavily) appreciates the Skarmory dropoff in usage and it also enjoys Mandibuzz and Nihilego rise. This is not even all, since to ice the cake it has Accelerock, allowing it to revenge kill threats like Salazzle and DD Mence/Gyara after chip, which ain't rly hard to get, so it definitely deserves to rise.
A- to B+This is probably a hot take, but I believe it should drop since it hates Amoonguss being so common and it's harder to fit than before with other Grass options like Zarude and Tapu Bulu being also good right now and being a Grass-Type that sucks into Primarina if not running AV rly sucks, since it wants Rocky Helmet as well in order to chip down Zarude when it U-turns and it also loves to have Synthesis, so honestly yeah drop it.
I also agree with Coba rising, Celesteela rising, Vaporeon, Centiskorch & Mesprit getting ranked and Registeel rising, cya.
I would like to see Thund stay A+
The pivot set with Knock still hits everything in the tier and gets infinite value. It also feels like its able to stay at full throughout the game and benefiting from most trades that would chip it down. I think it's still on par with other A+ mons because of how much it forces out in practice, and what it takes to account for it in the builder
Also Mence should def rise. Excellent defensive typing atm (and has been for awhile) with intim + defog has proven to be splashable, it's also versatile as we've seen DD sets be quite scary to Amoong Slowking + Steel not named Steela or Skarm. Think it has made its mark enough to where it could rise
Support Vap too as its just hard to kill in the short term and can fit on teams that wants what it has, while also giving you Wish support. Not a great mon at all but yea its viable enough
The pivot set with Knock still hits everything in the tier and gets infinite value. It also feels like its able to stay at full throughout the game and benefiting from most trades that would chip it down. I think it's still on par with other A+ mons because of how much it forces out in practice, and what it takes to account for it in the builder
Also Mence should def rise. Excellent defensive typing atm (and has been for awhile) with intim + defog has proven to be splashable, it's also versatile as we've seen DD sets be quite scary to Amoong Slowking + Steel not named Steela or Skarm. Think it has made its mark enough to where it could rise
Support Vap too as its just hard to kill in the short term and can fit on teams that wants what it has, while also giving you Wish support. Not a great mon at all but yea its viable enough
It's been a while since my last post here, and with UUPL starting soon I figured I'd formally nominate a few changes I believe should happen + support some previously made nominations.
to S: Fuck it, I will say this: Zarude is the best Pokemon in the tier, one of the most defining Pokemon in the tier, and arguably the sole S rank. Big Dada is currently the staple of offense and bulky offense teams as of now, utilizing its great typing and bulk to take on threats to offense like Aegislash, Zygarde-10%, and Thundurus while being a great status sponge into the likes of Slowking, Excadrill, and Swampert. We've been seeing this a lot through the common Salamence + Zarude + Slowking cores, being so easy to slap on a team with their great synergy and merits. Look at our sample teams, out of the 5 non gimmicky playstyles Zarude is on 4 of them. Being able to enable many dangerous wallbreakers like Nidoking, Salazzle, Mamoswine, Azelf, Vanilluxe, and many more makes Zarude just so valuable to bulky offense. Part of the reason Cobalion has been so good is that it hella punishes the shit out of Zarude; it would still be good yes, but its rise despite the dominance of counters like Aegislash and S;owking is because of the dominance of Zarude. Boots lets it last forever in a game, and it can be dangerously strong against even neutral targets like Celesteela. It does have faults, as does any Pokemon. It has plenty of defensive counterplay and is forced to click U-turn a lot, but it synergizes so well with other pivots like Moltres and Thundurus that they can just vortex the entire metagame. It also makes the team weak to Primarina since you're not using Amoonguss, but Slowking is fine enough to pivot in and Teleport out into a revenge killer (watch out for subCM) and primarina has experienced a decline in usage lately. All in all, Zarude is a key component in the shape of this current metagame, evidenced by its large boom in usage. Its ability to synergize with lots of Pokemon in the tier as well as its typing and bulk to check top dogs like Slowking, Primarina, Aegislash, Thundurus, and Excadrill (notice how they're all our current A+) lets me believe Zarude should rise to the S rank.
to A: Azelf should definitely rise higher this update to A. It’s been having continued dominance throughout masters after snake, being a superb offensive pivot that honestly gets quite tough to handle defensively, especially since knock off + u-turn lets it overcome lots of counterplay. Azelf is often seen as speed control on many BO teams due to the fact our scarfers all suck, lending lots to its splashability. Expert belt sets are quite good as well, often being able to lure and remove Slowking easily with an energy ball. It’s clearly a step above A- and fits much better in A as one of the most threatening Pokemon in the tier.
to B+: Even after the initial hype period, I’ve found Salazzle to be impressive enough to warrant a small rise to B+. The speed tier is very good against the Zarude + Cobalion teams that are popular while also fitting on them well, as seen by the new sample. Salazzle is also very good against staples like Amoonguss, Thundurus, and Azelf and can outlast its answers like Nihilego and Swampert in the long game with toxic + knock, technically not having any true counters since everything hates at least one of those moves. The frailty will always hold it back, but right now B certainly undersells Salazzle and it should rise to B+.
to B+: This nomination looks very awkward considering KM beat my ass with subtoxic Jirachi in masters a few days ago but even then I don’t find Jirachi all that. There’s a few sets here and there that have seen some usage and may have potency like the aforementioned subtoxic set and a demon cosmic power set BigFatMantis used yesterday in Masters but they haven’t really seen enough usage for me to become a key influence in Jirachi’s rank for now. As for the standard sets, rocks and wish + protect are virtually unseen. Rocks are very mediocre compared to other rockers like Cobalion, Swampert, Excadrill, and Nihilego, while wishtect can get overwhelmed easily and faces lots of competition from Umbreon on balance teams for such a limited niche. For the main set, Choice Scarf Jirachi’s flinches can get annoying and are useful to revenge kill Zygarde-10% and Azelf but there are a LOT of steel resists that keep it from spamming Iron Head, most notable Excadrill, Aegislash, Skarmory, Celesteela, Cobalion, Moltres, Swampert, Slowking, and Thundurus. With the need for scarfers declining and Jirachi just not being an impressive one lately, alongside its limited usages elsewhere, I feel Jirachi should drop for now, at least until more future exploration occurs that can warrant a rise.
to B-: I initially kept this at B considering how it performed well against pif’s stall teams for champs but after seeing Reuniclus more in action I’m not too big a fan. Choosing to be walled by either Aegislash or Zarude, two of the best Pokemon in the tier, isn’t fun at all. It struggles to set up against more offensive teams and Assault Vest sets also haven’t been seen much, as Slowking and Chansey are much better specially defensive pivots. Reuniclus just doesn’t feel that much better than the likes of sun, Vanilluxe, Hatterene, and Roserade to warrant a higher ranking than them, plus I find the current B rank much better than Reuniclus, so I believe it should drop a slight subrank.
to UR: To me Froslass just feels outclassed by lead Scolipede as a spikes setter, being able to threaten stuff like Zarude and Excadrill with its good offensive pressure and wear down defoggers with endeavor. Spikes HO are middling in general, and I think the weaker of the two setters shouldn’t be ranked anymore.
to A+: Reiterating what has been said above, Salamence is very much ready to regain its A+ status. Being an amazing answer to Zarude, Excadrill, and Conkeldurr as well as being the best defogger in the tier against Cobalion and Skarmory lends to its splashability a lot on Bulky offense teams. 3 attacks + roost sets are very scary when you don’t have a Primarina or Chansey in the back as even stuff like Nihilego and Slowking can get worn down. Intimidate shuffling is very useful against threats like Zygarde-10% too. I don’t rate Dragon Dance too highly since I like Celesteela and Mamoswine a lot but it can win against the right teams late-game. It’s just a very good option in the tier that is worth rising to A+.
to A+: I’m a giant fan of Celesteela. Defensive sets wall so damn much, including but not limited to Excadrill, Zarude, Amoonguss after a spore, Jirachi, DD Salamence, Gyarados, Diggersby, Galarian Moltres, some Hydreigon variants, Tapu Bulu, Skarmory, and Nihilego. Lack of reliable recovery is easy to overcome since with leech side it never dies. I’m also a big fan of autotomize sets right now, being a very strong option on hyper offense teams, especially webs, against Pokemon good into the archetype like Excadrill and Zarude. I’ve found Celesteela to be A+ worthy for a long time and it should rise to reflect its massive utility and merits in the tier.
to A: Cobalion to A is another nomination I’ve been in favor of for some time. Being the main Pokemon that hinders Zarude is excellent already, but Cobalion’s additional utility of rocks + pivot + revenge killer also makes it very good. It beats common staples like Excadrill, Nihilego, Thundurus, Chansey, and Jirachi with ease. With volt switch it always makes progress and pairs well with Slowking and Celesteela to overcome it being a “fake steel”. There's nothing more satisfying than luring in a Moltres and killing it with stone edge. It gets insane amounts of usage and is a major part of the metagame, a solid A rank in my book.
to B+: Dropping Tapu Bulu to B last update was very harsh on our end. It’s still a great supportive presence with grassy terrain, making some pokemon like Slowking and Swampert unkillable while enabling others like subtoxic Aegislash and Conkeldurr. Defensive sets stop Zydog, Zarude, Azumarill, and Thundurus while SD sets can work well despite the lack of coverage. This past week in masters it has gotten insane amounts of usage, much more than the likes of Amoonguss, taking advantage of its decline in usage. It has its faults but Tapu Bulu’s merits are significant enough to warrant a higher rank than B.
Articuno: C -> UR, I know this sounds really out of nowhere but what does this mon even do? Im being serious as I actually straight up what does this frozen thanksgiving do? Is it the typing? Heal Bell? Freeze Dry?
For anyone who knows what the bird does and tells me I appreciate it greatly!
For anyone who knows what the bird does and tells me I appreciate it greatly!
Combination of Defog + Heal Bell + Pressure, means it can out PP stuff like Chansey's Stealth Rock and Toxic, and wear out opposing Spikes faster. Can even be used to cause opposing Defog's to use 2 pp too, to make your own hazards stay up quicker.
Heal Bell compression is noticeably important for fatter teams too because it enables better moves on Chansey and Umbreon, eg. Stealth Rock and Toxic respectively. Articuno stalls also have a huge niche of being very strong into opposing fat / stall teams and usually winning the 1v1s, because they just completely dominate the hazards war.
Provides a ton of utility and has so much set diversity and can always be useful in a match with special sets, defensive, and dd sets seeing a lot of success and always putting in work. Special is able to pressure offensively many pokemon and pretty much has no safe switch ins as slowking gets worn down quickly especially with toxic, hazards, and other forms of pressure, chansey and umbreon which are religated to bulkier offense or balance builds and can be easy to overwhelm. Intimidate allows it to give itself many entries on many pokemon such as bulu, zarude, and zygarde-10% sometimes
Defensive is always able to wall many pokemon and always able to get rid of hazards with the many opportunities it is given against pokemon such as bulu, zarude, mandibuzz, non-toxic chansey, conk, skarm, tangrowth, keldeo, and some more. It can always put in work in a match and while passive it is always able to get the job done in a game by removing hazards and always dealing with many physical pokemon via its sheer bulk.
DD is something that klam spams very often on ladder and gets many opportunities to setup via its typing and the many pokemon it can force out via its coverage and can use it to dd on them. It can setup and clean through most offensive teams not packing mamo or lycanroc-d especially late game and makes it very easy to clean. It can also break through for other members and makes sure that other members can abuse the holes created.
All these sets with all such positive traits and good reasons to use them and as they always put in work is a reason I believe salamence should be A+, all of its sets are good and they always are able to perform throught a match and has ways to lure in and break through would be counters such as eq defensive mence for nihi, or fire blast dd mence for skarmory.