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Scolipede [QC 3/3] [GP 0/1]
- Thread starter ConstantCompanion
- Start date
Thundurus was gets downed by PJab after SR damage and one round of Life Orb recoil wit Jolly so its was worth mentioning imo.
It was more meant to be a benchmark for what max Spe Scolipede can outrun.
I added Latios and Terrakion as an important Pokemon that gets outspeed and Koed b +0 Scolipede.
Done.
It's Toxapex not Toxapec.
Also:
Scolipede Earthquake vs. Mega Charizard Y: 0-0 (0 - 0%) -- aim for the horn next time
Sick damage m8.
All jokes aside I know you meant Rock Slide for Zard Y (which is missing a description in Moves). I would replace Mega Pinsir with Volcarona though since Aqua Tail has a nasty burn side effect and Mega Pinsir will just Quick Attack your ass.
Personally I would mention Baton Pass clause not allowing the passing of Swords Dance and Speed Boost, but that's something I will leave to QC.
Oh snap, mixed RS and EQ in the same bullet point.
Added Rock Slide and some targets for it under Moves, Pinsir gets a special metion since you need to nail it on the switch.
Also added Heatran under things you want to hit with EQ.
I think mentioning te BP clause and its implication under te Sub pass set shoud be enough.
Serious question - why would a Pinsir switch into Scolipede when the only move it resists or becomes immune to is Earthquake? Pinsir is only coming in likely after something is sacked or U-turned / Volt Switched into safely.
I guess you can get the jump on a Mega Pinsir greedy enough to Swords Dance on Scolipede?
Its resist Megahorn after Evo and can take Aqua Tail and Jab quite well, unless you want to sack something beforehand its a decent switch in.
Yeah no. Not following that logic.
This should also be the Swords Dance set IMO:
Scolipede @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
Courtesy of http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-creative-underrated-sets.3592086/.
Make it the first set too. You can mention Life Orb in Set Details or something.
This should also be the Swords Dance set IMO:
Scolipede @ Waterium Z
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
Courtesy of http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sm-creative-underrated-sets.3592086/.
Make it the first set too. You can mention Life Orb in Set Details or something.
Ash Borer
I've heard they're short of room in hell
I dont think it ought to be the only slash. While 1 shotting defensive Lando-T is cash money, a huge percentage of them are offensive variants, where Life Orb +1 Aqua Tail will suffice
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 348-411 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Again, the Z Aqua Tail set has uses, but I just dont buy that it totally trumps Life Orb's superior STAB power. Aqua Tail doesn't need Waterium Z for Marowak, Nihilego, Excadrill, Terrakion, Offensive Lando or Gliscor if you can achieve +2. Not to mention defensive Lando-T aint that hard to bring into KO range for Life Orb Aqua Tail, considering its usually a team's primary pivot, SR user and lacks any recovery at all. Hydro Vortex Scolipede is more of an early game lure I believe, which is why you see it used that way in the replay. It also has the luxury of bypassing some of its offensive checks without having to boost, but +0 Jolly Scolipede with no boosting item is pretty weak, not sure if that's going to be sweeping at all lategame. It would be better to bank on getting a +2 or that Scolipede's checks have been worn down a bit, imo. Definitely a good set, but I don't believe it should be the only option given to the readers.
+1 252 Atk Life Orb Scolipede Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Landorus-Therian: 348-411 (109 - 128.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Again, the Z Aqua Tail set has uses, but I just dont buy that it totally trumps Life Orb's superior STAB power. Aqua Tail doesn't need Waterium Z for Marowak, Nihilego, Excadrill, Terrakion, Offensive Lando or Gliscor if you can achieve +2. Not to mention defensive Lando-T aint that hard to bring into KO range for Life Orb Aqua Tail, considering its usually a team's primary pivot, SR user and lacks any recovery at all. Hydro Vortex Scolipede is more of an early game lure I believe, which is why you see it used that way in the replay. It also has the luxury of bypassing some of its offensive checks without having to boost, but +0 Jolly Scolipede with no boosting item is pretty weak, not sure if that's going to be sweeping at all lategame. It would be better to bank on getting a +2 or that Scolipede's checks have been worn down a bit, imo. Definitely a good set, but I don't believe it should be the only option given to the readers.
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Im inclined to make it a separate set since,as Ash Borer mentioned, its functions more as a lure/wallbreaker to remove the ever common Ladorus-T and open up holes.
Its very specialized and forgoes some of the merits of the Life Orb set (like revenge killing via Protect,Life Orb boost and EQ) so i think it warrants an entire new set.
Its very specialized and forgoes some of the merits of the Life Orb set (like revenge killing via Protect,Life Orb boost and EQ) so i think it warrants an entire new set.
There is literally no point in making an entirely separate set. The only attacking moves Scoli really needs to use are Megahorn, Jab, and Aqua Tail. EQ is really only for Zone and Pex, Rock Slide stuff is all fucked up by +2 Jab. Just make the offensive set look like this:
Scolipede @ Waterium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
Waterzium slashed first because it is the better set, as you will be smacking shit like Mega Scizor and Celesteela hard as fuck at +2, OHKOing all variants of Lando-T, and offensive Heatran without even needing a boost. If you're aren't using another Z move Pokemon, I literally see no reason to run Orb, regardless of Scoli being weaker without a boost. The whole point of this set is to muscle through Pokemon it normally couldn't or straight dick all over mons like Lando-T even without a boost, and Scoli gets worn down very quickly with Life Orb which really doesn't help much in tandem with SR weakness, and the risk of being revenged by Ash Gren. Life Orb is decent if you are already using another Z move Pokemon though.
QC and I have already discussed this so this is what it needs to be. Mention EQ in set details I guess. I really don't see a reason to run offensive BP in this meta when you can just use SubPass and accomplish the same thing and not be walled to hell. Also switch the sets around and make the offensive set first.
Scolipede @ Waterium Z / Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Aqua Tail
- Megahorn
- Poison Jab
Waterzium slashed first because it is the better set, as you will be smacking shit like Mega Scizor and Celesteela hard as fuck at +2, OHKOing all variants of Lando-T, and offensive Heatran without even needing a boost. If you're aren't using another Z move Pokemon, I literally see no reason to run Orb, regardless of Scoli being weaker without a boost. The whole point of this set is to muscle through Pokemon it normally couldn't or straight dick all over mons like Lando-T even without a boost, and Scoli gets worn down very quickly with Life Orb which really doesn't help much in tandem with SR weakness, and the risk of being revenged by Ash Gren. Life Orb is decent if you are already using another Z move Pokemon though.
QC and I have already discussed this so this is what it needs to be. Mention EQ in set details I guess. I really don't see a reason to run offensive BP in this meta when you can just use SubPass and accomplish the same thing and not be walled to hell. Also switch the sets around and make the offensive set first.
I feel the Overview needs some cleaning up. Its current iteration is rather lackluster in describing Scolipede - especially when you consider no suicide set exists. Analyses take into account of the current snapshot for the most part, so really noting Talonglame's absence seems kind of shoddy. Basic things to note for Scolipede:
- Speed Boost and access to Swords Dance making it a strong offensive Pokemon that is difficult to check.
- Able to clear some of its problematic Pokemon with Hydro Vortex.
- One of the best Speed passers in the tier if desired.
- Stealth Rock weakness
- Still somewhat vulnerable to priority, though can usually take a priority attack or two if left unscratched.
Don't word it exactly like this, but this is just a small snapshot of what needs to be done.
The first set by far should be the Swords Dance set. Speed passing is rather limited to niche team. Also clean up the Team Options in Swords Dance. Scolipede is supposed to blow through Landorus-T why does it need support to do that again ?_? Also mention teammates that may appreciate some of the threats Scolipede can blow through.
I would also mention in at least the Swords Dance one that, so long as Scolipede is healthy, it will survive most priority attacks once. To give an idea Jolly Mega Pinsir doesnt even OHKO with Quick Attack (unless Scolipede steps into Stealth Rock).
Ill look at this further once you at least re arrange the sets and modify the Set Details on Scolipede.
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- Speed Boost and access to Swords Dance making it a strong offensive Pokemon that is difficult to check.
- Able to clear some of its problematic Pokemon with Hydro Vortex.
- One of the best Speed passers in the tier if desired.
- Stealth Rock weakness
- Still somewhat vulnerable to priority, though can usually take a priority attack or two if left unscratched.
Don't word it exactly like this, but this is just a small snapshot of what needs to be done.
The first set by far should be the Swords Dance set. Speed passing is rather limited to niche team. Also clean up the Team Options in Swords Dance. Scolipede is supposed to blow through Landorus-T why does it need support to do that again ?_? Also mention teammates that may appreciate some of the threats Scolipede can blow through.
I would also mention in at least the Swords Dance one that, so long as Scolipede is healthy, it will survive most priority attacks once. To give an idea Jolly Mega Pinsir doesnt even OHKO with Quick Attack (unless Scolipede steps into Stealth Rock).
Ill look at this further once you at least re arrange the sets and modify the Set Details on Scolipede.
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Im doing a lecture tomorrow so i havent been able to change anything else barring the set, will update once im done on Monday.
This is now hopefully up do date.
Only thing that i might add is Protect in OO for the Life orb variants.
Only thing that i might add is Protect in OO for the Life orb variants.
Yeah you can add Protect in OO.
I would also mention that Scolipede can be used as an early-mid game breaker. If you watch the video you'll notice that it's one of the big reasons that Axel pulled ahead of Cicada:
SPL is fun
In fairness Axel had the advantage of the set not really being well-known so it was a bit more awkward to think of ways to stop it, but notice that it takes advantage of a lot of passive Pokemon and still can be brutal after a boost. Some teammates appreciate the earlier brutality against Landorus-T as an example, so it's really a Pokemon that can function in multiple instances (this just depends on what you want Scolipede for - a lure or a cleaner).
With Magnezone I would mention that it allows Scolipede to hold off on using Hydro Vortex against certain threats. Consider that Scizor and Celesteela take a lot from Aqua Tail - and actually there are instances where bulky Swords Dance can lose as I noted in this post because Impish Bullet Punch is incredibly weak and after a Swords Dance will only threaten with Stealth Rock on the field or if Scolipede got dented. I wouldn't call Magnezone a mandatory teammate unless you really wanted to go for the late game cleanup with Scolipede.
I would mention Tapu Fini protects against status which can cripple a Scolipede pretty hard (well, burn mostly. Paralysis can kind of bust it a bit but +2 brings it about normal).
Phasers should just be in Physically Defensive. You can probably mention Hippowdon since it can phase out the second set without any issues. Not sure on "residual damage" - maybe better to just mention that burning or paralyzing it puts Scolipede at a bigger disadvantage. Stealth Rock is definitely a problem for it, and I guess there's the potential Life Orb but it's really not something that should be used often with Scolipede. I'm sure you can figure something to write in here - just that status can harm Scolipede and that it does suffer from Stealth Rock as far as residual damage goes. Even though Scolipede can take priority moves at full health it's still pretty relevant to stop it if Scolipede takes damage the first time around.
Definitely a start of a basis for what it's worth, so we can at least get the ball rolling and we'll see what other QC members have to add here.
And remove Starmie as a teammate it's really bland as a Spinner IMO. I would rather mention that Greninja can lay Spikes for Scolipede if it really wants to go for the late game cleanup or regular Greninja punching holes for Scolipede.
2/3
I would also mention that Scolipede can be used as an early-mid game breaker. If you watch the video you'll notice that it's one of the big reasons that Axel pulled ahead of Cicada:
SPL is fun
In fairness Axel had the advantage of the set not really being well-known so it was a bit more awkward to think of ways to stop it, but notice that it takes advantage of a lot of passive Pokemon and still can be brutal after a boost. Some teammates appreciate the earlier brutality against Landorus-T as an example, so it's really a Pokemon that can function in multiple instances (this just depends on what you want Scolipede for - a lure or a cleaner).
With Magnezone I would mention that it allows Scolipede to hold off on using Hydro Vortex against certain threats. Consider that Scizor and Celesteela take a lot from Aqua Tail - and actually there are instances where bulky Swords Dance can lose as I noted in this post because Impish Bullet Punch is incredibly weak and after a Swords Dance will only threaten with Stealth Rock on the field or if Scolipede got dented. I wouldn't call Magnezone a mandatory teammate unless you really wanted to go for the late game cleanup with Scolipede.
I would mention Tapu Fini protects against status which can cripple a Scolipede pretty hard (well, burn mostly. Paralysis can kind of bust it a bit but +2 brings it about normal).
This line seems rather confusing to be honest.
I think what you can mention is that some of the checks and counters below in your threat list (i.e. Celesteela). Hard to really say since Scolipede is in a rather awkward scenario like Omastar is where (outside of Baton Pass) its only offensive set is a Z move. You probably could reference what I did with Omastar as an example here.
Phasers should just be in Physically Defensive. You can probably mention Hippowdon since it can phase out the second set without any issues. Not sure on "residual damage" - maybe better to just mention that burning or paralyzing it puts Scolipede at a bigger disadvantage. Stealth Rock is definitely a problem for it, and I guess there's the potential Life Orb but it's really not something that should be used often with Scolipede. I'm sure you can figure something to write in here - just that status can harm Scolipede and that it does suffer from Stealth Rock as far as residual damage goes. Even though Scolipede can take priority moves at full health it's still pretty relevant to stop it if Scolipede takes damage the first time around.
No one is really going to use Prankster Tornadus as an example. The other two are fine.
Definitely a start of a basis for what it's worth, so we can at least get the ball rolling and we'll see what other QC members have to add here.
And remove Starmie as a teammate it's really bland as a Spinner IMO. I would rather mention that Greninja can lay Spikes for Scolipede if it really wants to go for the late game cleanup or regular Greninja punching holes for Scolipede.
2/3
That's a lot of pros and not many cons; Scolipede's good, but not to the point where a 4.5:1.5 ratio of pros:cons is justified. Talk about how it is susceptible to the more dangerous forms of priority in the tier (I'm talking about Water Shuriken, Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack/Feint etc.) and maybe talk about the pros and cons of its typing defensively (resists Pheromosa and Buzzwole's dual STABs) and mention how its bulk often compounds some of its resistances (for instance, +2 All Out Pumelling from modest Pheromosa has around a 50% OHKO rate vs. offensive variants, whereas +2 Bug Buzz has a 25% rate). Also I'd re-word the line I've highlighted in red 'cause atm it implies that there are other viable Speed Boost passers, which there are not. Maybe something like "Scolipede is the best user of Baton Pass in the tier due to it's access to Speed Boost."
knitpicking spelling and grammar. I'm not going to do this for everything, but make sure to read over the analysis to minimise the amount of work that GP needs to do. (add remove)
Make sure to space out the slashes here. Megahorn / Poison Jab / Earthquake. That said, I don't like earthquake much on this set personally and think that Scolipede's STABs are more useful in pretty much every scenario, given that Magnezone doesn't really pose much of a threat to P and EQ needs an absolute max roll to one-shot Heatran. You're better off bringing something that resists Heatran's Fire-type STAB as a BP recipient.
IDK if this really belongs in set details; I think mentioning SD and Iron Defense in OO and commenting on the fact that they cannot be used alongside Speed Boost due to BP clause is more appropriate.
I'd drop the mention of U-turn 'cause nothing typically runs U-turn on Baton Pass outside of Whimsicott. I'd also make apoint of mentioning that its choice of attack can be used against Pokemon such as Latios to net extra boosts against things which it can't Sub on without wasting HP.
This is so generic, and a lot of it doesn't really apply in the case of BP teams. You aren't running hazard removal on BP 'cause it kills way too much momentum (and don't cite Robopoke's team as a counterargument 'cause that team is awful). Drop the U-turn and Volt Switch mentions 'cause those 'mons are bad on BP and just replace it with a Whimsicott mention, stating that Whimsicott can create opportunities for Scolipede with Memento and U-turn and can counteract attempts to set up alongside Scolipede with Encore. I'd sort out that list of attackers a bit, maybe narrrow it down a bit. Mega Metagross, Manaphy, (Mega) Garchomp and Thundurus-T (this is like a better Xurkitree) should suffice here. Finally, Magic Bounce doesn't counteract Haze.
Merge the points in red.
Add a line break between each of these. Also the formatting should be as follows:
**Physically defensive Pokemon**: The likes of Skarmory blah blah blah
^Do this for all check/counter entries.
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Overview
Offensive
Set Details
SubPass
Moves
- Remove the first bullet.
- In the speed bulletpoint, change it to: "Scolipede's niche in OU is primarily due to its high base speed and access to Speed Boost" and make it the first bullet.
Offensive
Set Details
- I would remove the mention of Thundurus here, Latios and Terrakion are more relevant benchmarks
- I wouldn't call it an early to mid game "breaker" because most of the defensive checks it could wear down would moreso be lured in by Hydro Vortex, so I would use the word lured if anything. This bullet should probably be moved closer to the bottom, as this is more of an alternate gameplan.
- Note that Scolipede should often be saved for late game in order to clean, in the first bullet.
- Change the mention of Gliscor to Heatran, as it's more relevant.
- Change Gliscor to Heatran again
SubPass
Moves
- Note that Protect also allows you to collect Black Sludge recovery.
- Remove Skarmory from mentions - it should never really be on a Baton Pass team. To be honest, most of these mons will not find their way on BP teams. One of the best hazard deterrers for BP is Espeon due to Magic Bounce, so I would mention it in terms of the hazard game.
- Once again, I don't think you'll find much Volt Switch or U-turn on a BP team where 'mons want to keep passes, so I'd remove this mention.
- One thing that is important for a BP team is to have immunities that allow you to Baton Pass into certain pokemon more easily. Landorus-T, Tapu Bulu, and Mega Mawile are good examples of this.
- Remove the Iron Defense mention
- Note that Toxapex can also Haze away stat boosts which is annoying for Scolipede, although it should beware passing Substitutes because its Scald is so weak.
- Remove Stealth Rock
- Under priority users, add Ash-Greninja and Mega Scizor.
- You could also mention Hazers such as Mantine and Toxapex, alongside phazers. It should also be noted that phazers are weak to passing to Espeon.
ConstantCompanion could you please implement this within the next 48 hours?
Changes have been implemented.
This is now ready for GP.
This is now ready for GP.
ConstantCompanion are you interested in writing this up?
Yes.
ConstantCompanion Progress on this? It's been more than a month and it still hasn't been written up. I'm giving you 24 hrs to respond or else this is getting reassigned.
I've just noticed this, but it seems that there are actually two Scolipede threads going on simultaneously fsr.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/scolipede-qc-1-3.3602704/