ORAS UU Scarves and Swords

I've been playing on Pokemon Showdown for nearly a year now. Throughout my time here I've learned a lot and become a better player. When it comes to team building, though, progress has been slower. Most of the teams I make from scratch have been underwhelming and don't have the potential to go far. This team has been the one exception, consistently performing well in the meta and (very important) being fun to play with. With the writing on the wall that Mega Pidgeot is taking the fast lane to BL, I've decided to give it a last hurrah on the ladder and post a Rate My Team thread here. I've peaked at #32 on the ladder, and am currently sitting at #71 at the time of posting.

So, let's introduce the team shall we?

Scarves and Swords


This team's angle is fairly straightforward offense: wear down the enemy team until one of my team members has an opening to clean up. Work Up Pidgeot is my default win condition, but any of the 5 offensive team members are capable of cleaning up if given the opportunity. Early in the match I decide which pokemon are more likely to be able to sweep the opposing team and I strive to keep them healthy while I use the others aggressively to create opportunities for my chosen win conditions.

The most unconventional part of this team is its double scarf gambit. When I first created the team my thought was that it would be gimmicky and would crumple like tissue paper against stall. While there certainly is a nice surprise factor when I spring the second scarf on an unsuspecting foe, the redundant scarf really gives me a lot more leeway to play aggressively and provoke trades with the opponent. Because I have a backup scarfer, I'm often in a better position to control the match after a found 1 for 1 trades. Against stall, both Heracross and Hydreigon are superb knock off absorbers and getting at least one scarf removed isn't actually that hard, allowing them to do a little more work as all-out attackers.


Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance​

Doublade is the physically defensive bulkwark of this team, stopping threats like Slurpuff that otherwise run amok on the team. It's also an important stop to Scarf Salamence. The problem with Doublade is how much of a momentum sink it can be, and how much trouble it has with bulky water-types. As a result, I often need to double-switch with him if he comes out too early. The rest of the team has great synergy with him, and most of the things that want to switch into Doublade do not enjoy any of the other team members. Overall, though, these flaws are more than made up for by what it brings to the team and how many times it's saved my ass from the fire. The set is fairly standard; I choose to run Gyro Ball over Iron Head since I've never had PP issues and DD/Scarf Salamence is a big threat to this team so hitting it as hard as possible is important.



Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Fire Blast​

My primary offensive pivot, Hydreigon's role is to hit hard, threaten destruction with powerful special attacks and capture momentum with u-turn. The set and spread are fairly standard, with nature chosen for better u-turn damage since he does a lot of that. Fairies are Hydreigon's biggest problem. I carry Fire Blast for Whimsicott, and rely on the fact that the rest of the team has a good matchup against Florges. The presence of Doublade means that Hydreigon doesn't have to worry about being setup bait for Slurpuff. Hydreigon uses the team's ground weakness to its advantage to get free switch-ins on predicted ground-type moves, while using the complementary typing of its teammates to pivot out safely. Special walls like Blissey or Empoleon are also annoying, and it does take some prediction to decide when to u-turn and when to go for the attack.



Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Work Up
- Roost​

Pidgeot serves two important roles on this team: it's my primary win condition, and also my special wallbreaker. The set is designed to give good coverage with Work Up to improve his power. Pidgeot is vulnerable to status due to lacking Refresh and scarves are its bane, so these are the things that must be scouted for before Pidgeot can spread its wings safely. While I prefer to keep Pidgeot healthy for the end-game, where it often shines once its checks are worn down, sometimes I'm better served by using it aggressively early on with an eye on a different win condition.



Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed​

Arcanine is best described as a suicide bomber, a pokemon whose job it is to do as much damage as possible to the enemy team before KO'ing itself with recoil. It's very hard to switch into thanks to its diverse coverage and hard-hitting power. I use it over Entei because its set is less predictable, it gets a slightly higher speed tier since it can run Jolly, and Intimidate is a much more useful ability for this team. Close Combat and Crunch are my coverage of choice. Empoleon and Swampert are the most threatening bulky waters against this team, so I find Close Combat preferable to Wild Charge since it's Arcanine's most powerful move against those threats. Crunch is important to avoid being bait for Chandelure and also gives me something against Slowking, Cresselia, and Reuniclus.



Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Roar​

Empoleon is my "swiss army knife", compressing several important roles into a single slot and allowing me to run more all-out attackers on team without giving up those roles entirely. It is a bit of a momentum sink, but I find Roar helps mitigate this problem immensely and both Arcanine and Pidgeot greatly appreciate the hazard control. Empoleon is also critical for letting me defer taking on Calm Mind users like Suicune. I can usually handle these guys easily in a "last-mon" situation, but if they keep coming in throughout the game then they can wear down my answers. Empoleon lets me defer handling them until later when things are coming down to the finish line. I go for maximum SpD investment to ensure Empoleon can survive threats like Mega Blastoise and special Lucario, and since Doublade and Arcanine have the physically-defensive angle covered nicely as it stands.



Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge​

One of the lovely things about Heracross is that he can bluff his set very nicely. He often comes in early-game just to throw out some Close Combats or Knock Offs before retreating, and can easily see a lot of play without ever giving away his scarfed speed tier. I used to run Moxie, but I've found Guts more useful and have changed to that. It allows me to switch Heracross aggressively into Scald users like a SD set would and not care if they actually do get the burn. Moxie also telegraphs the scarf set very obviously, so taken together it helps me bluff his set better. I also find that most teams are well equipped to stop a Heracross sweep, and I'd rather have the instant power of Guts (even if I can't always get it) rather than something that requires me to KO an enemy pokemon first.

The moveset is fairly straightforward, the Megahorn being the only odd selection. This move helps me break through bulky psychics like Cresselia or Slowking that otherwise trouble Heracross. It's also helpful to have a STAB move that doesn't lower my stats, which is useful against Suicune. I do miss the Earthquake coverage, but overall I've found the tradeoff worthwhile.


Threat List

Magneton: I run two steel-types for this thing to trap, and scarf sets are a huge threat to Pidgeot. It's mercifully rare in UU, but when it does show up it's a huge problem right from team preview.

Swampert: this thing completely stops my physical teammates in their tracks, and Empoleon isn't too hot on staying in against it either. Both Mega and non-Mega are problematic for me, and I have to aggressively wear them down ASAP.

Thunder Wave: Porygon2, Cresselia, and Blissey are the most common, although the rare Granbull and Qwilfish are even more troubling. I don't have a good T-Wave absorber and have to rely on switching in something that's already status'd to keep these things from completely crippling my team.

Salamence: Scarf and Dragon Dance Salamence can easily sweep me team if I'm not careful since it outspeeds my entire team at +1 and often carries Fire Blast to deal with the likes of Doublade. Since I lack ice coverage, bulky Salamence is also tough for me to crack.



Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- Work Up
- Roost

Arcanine @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Crunch
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed

Hydreigon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- U-turn
- Fire Blast

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Roar

Heracross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
 
I don't know much about UU yet. Just wanted to point out that Magnezone cannot trap your Doublade as the latter is a Ghost-type.
 
Hey Darvin good looking team you have here. Some of my concerns are that you have 2 Choice Scarf users which is usually pretty bad, and is no exception in this case. Other than that and a few basic changes, I think you have your self a solid team.

Your team really struggles with Fire types, mainly Entei. Like I said, having 2 Scarfers is not optimal in most scenarios, so I think changing to Life Orb Taunt Roost Hydreigon will be your best bet. It can switch into Entei, outspeed, and either Roost off the damage or drop a Draco. This set also helps with beating stall, which your team struggles with a lot.

Refresh > Heat Wave on Pidgeot. Work Up and Refresh go hand and hand and really work the best with both on the same set. I see no reason to run Heat Wave as your team is not threatened by Steel Types whatsoever. This will also help with beating Stall teams.

You are going to need Wild Charge if you are going to run offensive Arcanine over Entei. Without it, there really is no niche. I would probably go for Wild Charge > Crunch. Crunch is only good for catching Chandelure on the switch in, although you can just Wild charge and 2hko it, anyway. I see no reason to run Crunch since Cres and Reun are going to beat you anyway(Not to mention Flare Blitz does either the same or more damage to those 2).

I am not a fan of your logic with "being too predictable" to be honest. Guts Scarf Heracross is a very bad set and shouldn't be used. Without a Choice Band or Flame Orb, Suicune and other Scald users are not threatened by a jolly Scarf Close Combat, making it not effective. It shouldn't matter if Moxie makes Scarf predictable or not, using Scarf Hera is meant to sweep late game, not to play mind games. So, Moxie > Guts.

I feel these changes will overall better your team, good luck with it!
 

Vapo

water me
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Hey Darvin, cool team! I like the overall concept, but I see a few issues that I believe are relatively simple fixes, so I'd like to give you some suggestions to improve your team's effectiveness:
  • Your team, in its current state, is a bit weak to Entei and Mienshao (the former having no switch ins and the latter revenge killing most of your team). A way I believe you can patch up this weakness is replacing Hydreigon -> Salamence. I would run a LO special set with an EV spread of 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe and a Timid Nature and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Defog / Roost. Salamence provides you with another reliable HJK switchin and general fighting check with a combination of Flying typing and intimidate. Special Salamence is also a decent lure (though no where near as good of a lure as it was when mence first became UU) and can smack physical walls that often switch in.
  • I second Christo The Gr8's suggestion to change Heat Wave -> Refresh. Heat Wave doesn't provide you with that much coverage, and refresh allows you to destroy stall that relies on status to wear down Pidgeot. It also lets you beat Suicune more reliably, which is extremely beneficial for your team.
  • Offensive Arcanine is a cool pokemon, but I believe Mixed Infernape fits your team better. You listed Swampert and Salamence as issues towards your team, so I would suggest a moveset of Close Combat / Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice and an EV spread of 48 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive Nature and an Expert Belt. The EV spread gives you a guaranteed OHKO on Empoleon with Close Combat, with the remaining EVs put into SpA to maximize your damage output. You have a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Swampert after rocks with Grass Knot, and a solid chance to OHKO Salamence from full with HP Ice. I've opted to go with Expert Belt over Life Orb as it feints a scarf set and lures in things that do not appreciate your coverage moves.
  • Since you have Defog on Salamence, I would change up your Empoleon moveset a bit. I would replace Defog -> Ice Beam, as this allows you to hit grass and dragon types for super effective damage. This is especially nice for nailing Hydreigon, Shaymin, and Salamence, which are all moderately threatening for your team.
Other than that, I feel like you have a really cool team. I hope you try out my suggestions! Good luck :]
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Swords Dance

Pidgeot @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Keen Eye
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Refresh
- Work Up
- Roost

Infernape @ Expert Belt
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 48 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Close Combat
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

Salamence @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Defog
- Roost

Empoleon @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Stealth Rock
- Scald
- Ice Beam

Heracross @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Stone Edge
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life
I would make Hydreigon Timid instead of Hasty because U-Turn does shit for damage anyways.EDIT: Also, make Heracross Moxie instead of Guts because Guts Scarf hera is pretty bad, or just make Heracross a different set since having 2 scarfers isn't very good.
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey man, cool team you have there.

I like the set-up of your team, and having a goal (weakening and picking 1 or 2 mons to sweep) is a really good build-up point as it makes you aware of your win-conditions and what to switch in when.

1 problem I saw with your team was the weakness to status, thunder wave in general. You noted this in the 'threat-list' of your team, but I really think you should do something about it.

Empoleon seems really out of place in this team. It has a niche of learn both Stealth Rock and Defog, but I don't think your team needs that very much. To still gain a bit of bulk on your team, I'd suggest going with Blissey > Empoleon. This gives you a butt load of utility stuffed into 1 mon, bit I think your team would benefit from it quite well.

Blissey gives you Stealth Rock, Wish, Heal bell, Soft-Boiled, etc etc.

Even though you can't expect Blissey to do all these jobs at once, it can furfill some nice ones, ehich you can change to your own liking. Wish support seems like a good option, as a lot of mons on your team often take recoil (Arcanine, Heracross when guts is activated, etc.)

I also agree with Vapo 's change of Infernape > Arcanine. It gives you SR options, which gives Blissey an easier time doing her business, and still keeps offensive pressure.

I don't think you really need a defogger on your team, as with the pressure that your team gives you, your opponent will be heavily punished for switching out. Keeping up momentum prevents Rapid Spin most of the time, which is nice as your team really likes crippled/slightly weakened mons ;)

Anyway, good luck with the team and all the suggested sets, have a good day!
 
Thanks for your replies everyone!

I don't know much about UU yet. Just wanted to point out that Magnezone cannot trap your Doublade as the latter is a Ghost-type.
Interesting, I thought that was just Shadow Tag that ghost-types were immune to. Good to know, and yet more reason to love Doublade ^_^

Hey Darvin Some of my concerns are that you have 2 Choice Scarf users which is usually pretty bad, and is no exception in this case.
To be honest, I was also surprised by how functional the combo is in spite of the redundant scarf team slot. It's actually something that puzzles me; this team should have more trouble with stall than it actually does (still an unfavorable matchup, though). I definitely wouldn't try it again with a future team, but it wasn't nearly as gimmicky as it looked on paper and I quite enjoyed running it.

Your team really struggles with Fire types, mainly Entei. Like I said, having 2 Scarfers is not optimal in most scenarios, so I think changing to Life Orb Taunt Roost Hydreigon will be your best bet. It can switch into Entei, outspeed, and either Roost off the damage or drop a Draco. This set also helps with beating stall, which your team struggles with a lot.
Entei isn't too bad, actually. He's hard to switch into and a misprediction can be nasty, but that describes most A+ offensive threats. Entei doesn't have many switch-in opportunities against my team, is outsped by the majority of the team, and doesn't have any good switch-in opportunities.

That said, I do like the Taunt Roost Hydreigon set a lot. I'd miss out on using Hydreigon as a pivot with u-turn but there's no question that a Taunt/Roost set would bring a lot of its own merits to the table.

Refresh > Heat Wave on Pidgeot. Work Up and Refresh go hand and hand and really work the best with both on the same set. I see no reason to run Heat Wave as your team is not threatened by Steel Types whatsoever. This will also help with beating Stall teams.
This is a consideration I've often dwelled upon in the past, and it's a trade-off either way. Refresh makes it easier to set up in the first place, but Heat Wave means there are fewer threats that need weakening/removal before Pidgeot has its opening.

You are going to need Wild Charge if you are going to run offensive Arcanine over Entei. Without it, there really is no niche. I would probably go for Wild Charge > Crunch. Crunch is only good for catching Chandelure on the switch in, although you can just Wild charge and 2hko it, anyway. I see no reason to run Crunch since Cres and Reun are going to beat you anyway(Not to mention Flare Blitz does either the same or more damage to those 2).
This is a very good point. While I'll miss having Chandelures deliver themselves into Arcanine's waiting jaws, you're right that Crunch just doesn't hit enough things over Wild Charge.

I am not a fan of your logic with "being too predictable" to be honest. Guts Scarf Heracross is a very bad set and shouldn't be used. Without a Choice Band or Flame Orb, Suicune and other Scald users are not threatened by a jolly Scarf Close Combat, making it not effective. It shouldn't matter if Moxie makes Scarf predictable or not, using Scarf Hera is meant to sweep late game, not to play mind games. So, Moxie > Guts.
I think the bigger factor for me is that Heracross often gets forced out when something threatens to revenge kill it, so Moxie streaks often don't go anywhere. Guts, on the other hand, stays with me once I manage to get it and I can keep switching in over and over to use that boost. I simply had too many games where I had a toxic'd or burnt Heracross and thought "I wish I had Guts instead of Moxie", so I made the switch.

  • Your team, in its current state, is a bit weak to Entei and Mienshao (the former having no switch ins and the latter revenge killing most of your team). A way I believe you can patch up this weakness is replacing Hydreigon -> Salamence. I would run a LO special set with an EV spread of 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe and a Timid Nature and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Defog / Roost. Salamence provides you with another reliable HJK switchin and general fighting check with a combination of Flying typing and intimidate. Special Salamence is also a decent lure (though no where near as good of a lure as it was when mence first became UU) and can smack physical walls that often switch in.
That's an interesting one, and a good alternative to the Taunt/Roost Hydreigon suggestion from Christo that works upon similar lines.

  • Offensive Arcanine is a cool pokemon, but I believe Mixed Infernape fits your team better. You listed Swampert and Salamence as issues towards your team, so I would suggest a moveset of Close Combat / Fire Blast / Grass Knot / Hidden Power Ice and an EV spread of 48 Atk / 208 SpA / 252 Spe with a Naive Nature and an Expert Belt. The EV spread gives you a guaranteed OHKO on Empoleon with Close Combat, with the remaining EVs put into SpA to maximize your damage output. You have a guaranteed OHKO on max HP Swampert after rocks with Grass Knot, and a solid chance to OHKO Salamence from full with HP Ice. I've opted to go with Expert Belt over Life Orb as it feints a scarf set and lures in things that do not appreciate your coverage moves.
And there I thought I was going to get "use Entei instead" comments regarding Arcanine. Much as I love Arcanine, that set is really appealing since it does nail several key threats to this team at the same time. Losing intimidate is kind of a big deal, though, since double-switching off Arcanine is a common trick I pull. Conundrums conundrums...

  • Since you have Defog on Salamence, I would change up your Empoleon moveset a bit. I would replace Defog -> Ice Beam, as this allows you to hit grass and dragon types for super effective damage. This is especially nice for nailing Hydreigon, Shaymin, and Salamence, which are all moderately threatening for your team.
Empoleon has lots of appealing moves; Ice Beam, Knock Off, and Toxic all stand out. Offloading those roles on other team slots would definitely open up possibilities.

Other than that, I feel like you have a really cool team. I hope you try out my suggestions! Good luck :]
Thanks you for sharing them!

I would make Hydreigon Timid instead of Hasty because U-Turn does shit for damage anyways.EDIT: Also, make Heracross Moxie instead of Guts because Guts Scarf hera is pretty bad, or just make Heracross a different set since having 2 scarfers isn't very good.
I was honestly surprised to find the Hasty nature when I pulled open the teambuilder to copy/paste the sets for this, and decided to just report what I'd been running rather than make a last second update. Having slept on it, I agree that the loss of bulk isn't worth the small increase in chip damage.

1 problem I saw with your team was the weakness to status, thunder wave in general. You noted this in the 'threat-list' of your team, but I really think you should do something about it.
While I agree in principle, fitting the right T-Wave counter-measure has proven problematic. I briefly tried replacing Heracross with various Mamoswine sets, but it didn't really work all too well. I might try that again with some of the other suggestions here and see if it works better.

Empoleon seems really out of place in this team. It has a niche of learn both Stealth Rock and Defog, but I don't think your team needs that very much. To still gain a bit of bulk on your team, I'd suggest going with Blissey > Empoleon. This gives you a butt load of utility stuffed into 1 mon, bit I think your team would benefit from it quite well.
One of Empoleon's big draws is phasing with Roar, which prevents him from being setup fodder. That's my biggest concern with Blissey, especially on a set without a status move. Heal Bell and Wish support is definitely tempting, but I think I'd rather go with Florges (which is much less passive) for those options.


Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I'm going to sleep on them and see what I build tomorrow. I'd imagine the team's going to look and play very different when I'm done.
 

Shadestep

volition immanent
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
Hey bro, one idea I cam up with was to maybe put Mamoswine > Heracross, as you mentioned yourself, and then putting Granbull > Blissey. They can.do the same thing outside of wish, and this way you have Roar, SR and Heal Bell. Idk how this would work with your team tho.
 

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