RMT - Team Eat Your Greens First!

[kuja20]

Team Eat Your Greens First​

Introduction​

With the vast majority of my teams becoming mundane and outdated, I felt I could do with a different team and I suddenly thought, ah, a Celebi Lead team could be fun and something a little different for me to experiment with. I have laddered with this team, and had a series of non-rated games with it, and it has been mostly successful for me, however, even I know there are some gaps in this team that needs to be filled, and its nice to get other peoples opinions.

The Team Up Close

*Team Changes in Bold*
​

The Lead, The Rocker, The Scouter:

Celebi @ Occa Berry
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 80 Atk/176 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Leaf Storm
- Stealth Rock
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn

With the dominance of such beasts like Metagross, Azelf and Jirachi leads, Celebi is one of those leads that make you think: what the heck is this thing going to do to me? The way I see it, there are a few possible lead sets that can be used with Celebi, and they include the Trick Scarf Set and a Rocker like this one. As you can expect with most leads, getting Stealth Rocks up is a definite priority, Celebi is no exception to this unwritten rule.

The idea is to be able to set up the rocks, and cripple (which ever order works). Thunder Wave later on the game (usually midgame) can come in handy against those who threaten the rest of the team because of the overwhelming speed. U-Turn is one of the best scouting moves in the game, and it is almost a must have for a lead such as Celebi; if the opponent switches while you U-Turn, you get the better switch-in because of it. Leaf Storm is a nice powerful attack to make use of the Special Attack EVs that I listed, although sometimes I think they are a waste, because Celebi will rarely get the chance to use Leaf Storm.

176 Speed Naïve reaches 308 Speed, outrunning those pesky Speed+ Natured Base 100 pokes like Roserade, or the rare Porygon-Z. 252 Special Attack EVs is just to get Leaf Storm to be as powerful as possible, and trust me, it’ll hurt a lot of things that don’t resist it. The rest can go into attack to give U-Turn a little more “oomph” on impact. Occa Berry may seem like a stupid idea, but that Occa Berry could be the difference between winning or losing, especially against Nape Leads.

This isn’t a suicide lead, and it has the intention of staying alive as long as possible while attempting to cripple and/or scout, or eliminate.

Ducktales, WooOOoo! -

Porygon2 @ Leftovers
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 SAtk
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Toxic
- Recover
- Ice Beam
- Discharge

The duck that needs no introduction, because once it makes its introduction into the game, it’ll usually force a switch. Trace really makes Porygon2 feasibility factor in OU increase. This is because, with the EV spread listed, it can reliably counter a select few of the major OU threats like DD/CB Mence (although, the mixed variation is seen more), Jolteon, Gyarados and Heatran. Vaporeon is a given too thanks to Toxic.

Ye olde BoltBeam coverage is the preferred set of attacking moves here because of its nice coverage. Toxic really helps wear down any non-steel type walls and other threats that can be taken down thanks to Toxic/Recover stalling.


King of the Karp –

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 20 HP/136 Atk/124 Def/228 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Substitute
- Waterfall

A Gyarados on any team can rip apart the unsuspecting opposition. The idea here is to bring Gyara in on something that Gyara can easily take care of, and then use Substitute on the switch. This set uses most non-seismic toss Blissey variants as set up fodders and allows Gyarados to set up both a free sub AND a Dragon Dance. It really depends on the opponent. Gyarados is my ultimate answer to Scizor, and in my opinion, there isn’t a counter (bar from Zapdos) better than Gyara is. Predict a Bullet Punch, switch in Gyara, and you have an easy set up, the same as with Blisseys.

Waterfall + Stone Edge give the best coverage and power, so it can take on a vast majority of threats after a DD (and maybe with its substitute intact). 228 Speed EVs, Jolly on Gyara allows Gyara to outspeed Scarf Heatran with 1 DD, and I personally usually have this speed on Gyara because of Heatran (not that Heatran is much of a threat to Gyarados, but it’s nice to attempt a free kill on Heatrans that expect to be faster). 136 Attack EVs reaches a reasonable 320 Attack, which most Bulky Gyaras usually have anyway. 20 HP reaches a magic Leftovers number, and the rest is crammed into Defence for extra bulkiness.

Shockingly Quick –

Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Charge Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Grass]

Haha, the damage this thing can do to anything that isn’t Blissey or Snorlax is incredible. Like Celebi, this thing can scout and predict switches; unlike Celebi this has some coverage and power behind its moves. Thunderbolt/HP Ice has the “BoltBeam” coverage, I don’t really feel that threatened by Pert, so there is no need for HP Grass. Shadow Ball has nice coverage as well with Thunderbolt; can hit the Rotom Appliances harder than Thunderbolt. HP Fire is possibility for me to get coverage against the likes of Magnezone, but HP Ice is my preferred option. Baton Pass is really for predicting switches so I can get the better switch-in, works the same as Celebi with U-Turn.

Jolteon works well with Gyarados by taking Gyarados’ biggest weakness (Electric) with Volt Absorb. This also works well by predicting incoming Thunder Waves from the opposition.

Give me Liberty [Bell] or give me Death –

Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP/68 Atk/188 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Gyro Ball
- Trick

This big bell has a huge place in my heart, and love having it in my teams. It has very nice resistances, and it only has one weakness, what more could you ask for? On hindsight, it looks like a weird set, but when you look at most offensive teams, this can hurt the fast attackers. Macho Brace halves the speed of the poke that uses it, which also helps Zong’s Gyro Ball as well. Trick that sucker onto a Jolteon, or an Azelf, or a Scarfer in general (ones that don’t have trick) and they are basically crippled.

Gyro Ball is one of the nicest STAB moves that Zong can utilise because of its appalling speed, with Macho Brace, Bronzong has 15 Speed Total, so Gyro Ball’s power increases. Earthquake if I can predict any Heatran/Infernape switch-ins, or Magnezones. Explosion if Zong is ready to die. As for the EV spread, its just one I am used to using, it seems like the optimum spread for a special defensive Zong. The remaining 68 EVs go into attack for a little extra power.

The Clean up Monkey –

Infernape (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 64 Atk/192 Spd/252 SAtk
Mild nature (+SAtk -Def)
- Close Combat
- U-Turn
- Overheat
- Hidden Power [Ice]

The last member of my team: Mixed Infernape. This is basically my late gamer once all of the relevant Threats have been dealt with by the rest of my team. The EV spread in itself is really basic, 128/128 gives both Attack and Special Attack even amount of power, although I think I could do with a little more Special Attack to be able to finish off the likes of Suicune, but I am relying on Jolteon or Celebi to handle that. Although it may not seem like I need all that speed, but to be honest, it is my insurance against other Infernapes, just in case I need to win a speed tie or something similar.

Close Combat and Overheat are really nice, powerful STABs and does its job well most of the time. Overheat over Fire Blast mainly for the accuracy, I don’t really want to come to the end of the game, use Fire Blast and bam, it misses thus costing me the game. Overheat also has base 140 power so that’s a bonus as well. Grass Knot comes in handy against those bulky waters (Swampert/Suicune), and has decent coverage with Overheat. Mach Punch for priority against anything like Lucario that has an SD up already, and is either weakened, or has a defence layer down.

Conclusion

The team itself covers a lot of ground, and is usually free to switch between pokes to take resisted damage. Celebi and Jolteon and scout effectectively together with U-Turn and Baton Pass. The main regret of this team, is that it has no anti-spinner and nothing to take an Explosion like the Rotom Formes.

Threats, Counters and Lead Threats.

​

*Note: In order to save myself a little bit of time writing this Threat List Up, I copy and pasted the list that Hector/Vashta posted for their Su(b)perior Democracy RMT*

Any counters (or pokes that can come in pseudo-safely) are posted as normal, anything that can take on a threat, but not counter it, has been put in italics. Significant threats have been placed in Red. If I have missed something obvious, or not so obvious please let me know.


Abomasnow: Gyarados, Infernape

Azelf: Bronzong, Jolteon

Blissey: Gyarados, Infernape

Breloom: Bronzong, Infernape, Gyarados.

Dugtrio: Celebi, Bronzong, Joleteon

Suicune: Celebi, Joleteon, Infernape(if Suicune has been Weakened)

Salamence: Physical variants: Porygon2 Any: Gyarados

Raikou: Bronzong, Jolteon, Infernape

Kingdra: Celebi, Bronzong, Jolteon (

Zapdos: Porygon2, Infernape (Can Overheat and take on weaker ones)

Tyranitar: Bronzong, Infernape, Gyarados

Heatran: Porygon2, Gyarados, Infernape (Non scarfed variants)

Rhyperior: Celebi, Gyarados, Infernape

Scizor: Gyarados, Infernape, Jolteon

Mamoswine: Celebi, Bronzong, Infernape

Lucario: Gyarados, Infernape (Can Mach Punch weakened ones or after CC)

Rotom (all formes) : Jolteon (Non Scarfed variants), Porygon2 (Toxic Stall non-RestTalkers)

Gengar: Bronzong, Jolteon

Celebi: Jolteon, Infernape

Slowbro: Jolteon, Celebi, Porygon2, Infernape (Weakened)

Yanmega: Bronzong, Gyarados

Magnezone: Infernape (Non Scarfed variants)

Starmie: Jolteon, Porygon2

Gyarados: Porygon2, Jolteon

Heracross: Bronzong, Gyarados (that isn’t locked onto Stone Edge)

Cresselia: Porygon2 (Toxic stalling Non RestTalkers)

Machamp: Celebi, Gyarados, Infernape

Togekiss: Bronzong, Jolteon, Gyarados

Porygon-Z: Bronzong, Infernape (Mach Punch Weakened Scarfers)

Jolteon: Bronzong, Porygon2, Jolteon

Swampert: Celebi, Porygon2, Infernape

Metagross: Gyarados (if Gross doesn’t carry Thunderpunch), Infernape

Flygon: Celebi (can take one Fire Punch because of Occa), Gyarados, Bronzong, Porygon2

Jirachi: Gyarados (non CM/Special variants), Jolteon, Infernape, Bronzong

Skarmory: Porygon2, Jolteon, Infernape

Forretress: Porygon2, Gyarados, Jolteon, Infernape

Hippowdon: Porygon2, Celebi, Infernape, Jolteon

Aerodactyl: Celebi, Bronzong, Porygon2

Gliscor: Celebi, Porygon2, Gyarados, Jolteon, Infernape

Snorlax: Bronzong (would have to explode on it though), Infernape

Infernape: Gyarados, Infernape

Latias: Porygon2 can Toxic it, Bronzong

 

[august]

Alright, to be honest I see no reason for having a Naive nature on Celebi.

This isn’t a suicide lead, and it has the intention of staying alive as long as possible while attempting to cripple and/or scout, or eliminate.

If you want Celebi to remain alive for as long as possible then use a Timid nature. With a -nature SpDef stat you are going to take a lot more from Lead Elf Fire Blasts and other leading special attackers. Also it isn't like U turn is going to be doing heavy amounts of damage to anything to be honest, 70 base power off 236 Attack isn't exactly what I'd call a heavy hit.

Another thing I can see working better is not using Choice Specs on Jolteon. I think your Jolteon would benefit much more being able to chose a new attack every turn. This also means you won't be getting set up on either, which would be optimal. Charge Beam can still boost your special attack to the same level it was when holding Choice Specs, but Jolteon will be able to switch attacks and will be a great candidate for a late game sweep.

Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Charge Beam

Next off, I am skeptical of Infernape's set. It seems you can set up on most bulky waters with Gyarados barring Vaporeon (who Porygon2 can counter very well) and Suicune, who only carries Hidden Power [Electric] on offensive versions usually. Both of the above are hit hard by Close Combat (generally a 2HKO with SR). This lessens the need to use Grass Knot since you also have Swampert virtually covered with Celebi. In this slot I recommend U turn. It will hit Latias hard on the switch in for about 60-70% and is also a great scouting move to find an oppositions first swap into Infernape. I also would much rather use 252 Atk since Overheat is really only for Skarm/Forry/Steels.

Also, just a nitpick, Porygon2 is 2HKO'd by BandMence Outrage.

Good luck.

 

[kuja20]

Alright, to be honest I see no reason for having a Naive nature on Celebi.


If you want Celebi to remain alive for as long as possible then use a Timid nature. With a -nature SpDef stat you are going to take a lot more from Lead Elf Fire Blasts and other leading special attackers. Also it isn't like U turn is going to be doing heavy amounts of damage to anything to be honest, 70 base power off 236 Attack isn't exactly what I'd call a heavy hit.

Yeah I was kinda debating the same thing, and that makes sense; Timid it is.

Another thing I can see working better is not using Choice Specs on Jolteon. I think your Jolteon would benefit much more being able to chose a new attack every turn. This also means you won't be getting set up on either, which would be optimal. Charge Beam can still boost your special attack to the same level it was when holding Choice Specs, but Jolteon will be able to switch attacks and will be a great candidate for a late game sweep.

Jolteon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Charge Beam

I shall definately try this out, and Jolteon with freedom of choice with its moves + charge beam getting the boost sounds logical. I will make that change and keep testing I think.

Next off, I am skeptical of Infernape's set. It seems you can set up on most bulky waters with Gyarados barring Vaporeon (who Porygon2 can counter very well) and Suicune, who only carries Hidden Power [Electric] on offensive versions usually. Both of the above are hit hard by Close Combat (generally a 2HKO with SR). This lessens the need to use Grass Knot since you also have Swampert virtually covered with Celebi. In this slot I recommend U turn. It will hit Latias hard on the switch in for about 60-70% and is also a great scouting move to find an oppositions first swap into Infernape. I also would much rather use 252 Atk since Overheat is really only for Skarm/Forry/Steels.

Hmm Ok, I guess I just keep getting into the habit of evening out the Attack and Special Attack Stats, but your suggestion does make more sense.

Also, just a nitpick, Porygon2 is 2HKO'd by BandMence Outrage.

Good luck.

Haha thats a bit stupid of me, I should know this by now. Thanks for the suggestions ^_^, I shall give those a test out.

 

[dachickens]

For a late game sweeper, I suggest changing Ape to the ScarfApe set. This allows it to outspeed more stuff without having to rely on the relatively weak Mach Punch too much. In addition, ScarfApe makes a great revenge killer in all stages of the game and notably outspeeds many once-DD'd things. I've used it many times and it's really quite good and unexpected.

The set is this:

Infernape @ Choice Scarf
Rash/Mild
24 Atk / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
~ Overheat
~ Close Combat
~ Hidden Power Ice
~ U-turn

 

[Snorlaxe]

First off, let me start by saying...OMG A CELEBI LEAD TAHTS SO SEXY! Now that thats taken care of, I can act professional. I understand how you want to play Celebi. Set up rocks, then see where it takes you. Thats a good strategy...but all i want to say is don't be too quick to U-Turn out of there. With Base 100 SpA, 252 SpA Evs, and 140 Base Power, (and STAB!) Leaf Storm can rape so many things for an early lead in the match. THEN you can U-Turn out, getting your SpA back, and if the opponent is still standing, to your Clean-Up Ape, to pick them off with mach punch. The moveset and EV spread is fine, though. But if you dont plan on using Leaf Storm as I said, then I would take some of the SpA EVs and apply them to make Celebi more bulky, so it can TWave later in the match, and maybe pull another Leaf Storm.

Porygon2 is one of my favorite Pokes. I dont know why it isnt used like hell in OU, because it counters so much crazy shit head sweepers with ease (and then recovers off whatever it took. Its like Porygon2 washing its hands after a meal). Plus, just a stupid question...why is it discharge instead of Thunderbolt? More Base Power, and Thunderbolt can still OHKO Gyara, plus 2HKO Vaporeon.

I dont see any problem with Gyara. I suck at using DD Dos, but I have been 6-0ed a few times just because the team I was currently using wasn't prepared for DD Gyarados. Needless to say, I made THOROUGH revisions. :P Now, august is an amazing player, and congratulations to him for winning the tournament, but I have used Choice Specs Jolt, and murdered unprepared teams. Teams that had no ground type are generally 5-0ed or 5-1ed by my SpecsJolt. Leftovers on a pokemon like Jolteon, whom can't take a hit without it going down in a fiery inferno, is just plain trash. It won't really help it survive. Also, I wouldn't use Charge Beam...I'm sure the SpA boost is nice, but Jolteon might not survive the next turn to enjoy that benefit. Also, since Jolteon is already a speedy bitch, I would not use a Timid nature, but maybe go with a Modest one.

This sounds incredibly strange, but I MIGHT consider using Heatproof instead of Levitate on Zong. This sounds stupid, and everyone will probably get mad at me, but I have used a Heatproof Zong to great success. You can no longer switch in on Ground types, but if you switch in on a ground-type after one of your pokes faint, then they will switch out, expecting levitate, allowing you to lure in a fire type, survive its hit, and kill it with EQ.

Another stupid suggestion, this time for Infernape...how about, instead of U-Turn, Grass Knot? Something like Suicune would switch in, thinking it was so cool, and then getting raped up the butt by a Knot. Then it will either switch, or get mauled by Close Combat.

All in all, though, a very good team. I hope I get to play it sometime on Shoddy!

 

[kuja20]

Ok I made changes to the team. I just tested the team in a small live tournament, and those changes have saved my ass big time; I won the tour XD. I have Changed Jolteon to the Charge Beam Variant, I now have a Choice Scarfed Infernape. I choose Discharge over Thunderbolt because I prefer the extra paralysis rate more than the power. Thanks for the help and constructive help guys. Any other help is welcome too.

 

[Zach]

This team is really good, so changing it slightly means that other changes will have to be made to counter balance the first changes and stuff and stuff

I'll try

Special attackers seem to give you a lot of trouble; you don't have a consistent switch-in for Specs Heatran. Modest Specs Tran does at least 48% damage with Fire Blast, meaning Gyarados cannot switch in more than once if Stealth Rocks are down. Likewise, Choice Specs Lucario's Modest Aura Sphere does at least 33% damage, again meaning that Gyara cannot switch in more than once. Nobody on this team can take a Draco Meteor well except Bronzong. Etc, etc.

So I suggest you replace P2 with Blissey.

Blissey @ Leftovers
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
-Thunder Wave
-Softboiled
-Flamethrower
-Grass Knot

This Bliss set (made by Obi iirc) works great against Special Attackers - as do all Blissey - and also packs a back-up plan for Physical attackers. Two common switch-ins to Blissey are Scizor and Tyranitar. If Bliss T-Waves them on the switch-in, she can outspeed and potentially OHKO either with Flamethrower or Grass Knot. Grass Knot also hits Starmie, Suicune, Hippowdon (lol), Gyara switch-ins, etc. Flamethrower can hit Jirachi, Lucario, Weavile (lol), Breloom, and others weak to fire on the switch in. For those pokemon that Fire + Grass coverage does not handle, T-Wave makes it easier for other pokemon to pick up where Blissey left off.

Including Blissey, however, makes you weaker to Physical attackers, so I suggest replacing Jolteon with defensive Rotom-A. Rotom-A completely patches up your Metagross weakness, is a good switch-in to Stone Edge Lucario (who would otherwise beat you quite handily), can stand up to the omnipresent CB Scizor, has excellent typing that provides awesome resists, and preserves near identical synergy as Jolteon provided.

Rotom-A @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Shadow Ball
-Reflect / Rest

Again, pretty good, I might've made your team worse in a way I didn't realize, but I guess my rate seems worth a test its not too horrible

 

[Blue_Blur]

heh, I remember this team.

Pretty well constructed although I'm not sure what good grass knot is on ScarfApe. HP Ice seems like a much better option since Mixmence takes out half your team (Draco Meteor for Gyara, porygon2, and Fire Blast for Celebi, maybe problem for zong) From reading the rest of your team. It seems like your best way to deal with it is to either go to Jolt to T-Bolt, which doesn't 2HKO against 196 spD Mence 40.79% - 48.04% <--- Excuse me if that is wrong lol, or go to Zong and sac him. So its seems easier just to have HPIce on Nape for Mence and Scarfgon anyway.

 

[kuja20]

This team is really good, so changing it slightly means that other changes will have to be made to counter balance the first changes and stuff and stuff

I'll try

Special attackers seem to give you a lot of trouble; you don't have a consistent switch-in for Specs Heatran. Modest Specs Tran does at least 48% damage with Fire Blast, meaning Gyarados cannot switch in more than once if Stealth Rocks are down. Likewise, Choice Specs Lucario's Modest Aura Sphere does at least 33% damage, again meaning that Gyara cannot switch in more than once. Nobody on this team can take a Draco Meteor well except Bronzong. Etc, etc.

So I suggest you replace P2 with Blissey.

Blissey @ Leftovers
252 Def / 80 SpA / 176 SpD
Calm nature (+SpD, -Atk)
-Thunder Wave
-Softboiled
-Flamethrower
-Grass Knot

This Bliss set (made by Obi iirc) works great against Special Attackers - as do all Blissey - and also packs a back-up plan for Physical attackers. Two common switch-ins to Blissey are Scizor and Tyranitar. If Bliss T-Waves them on the switch-in, she can outspeed and potentially OHKO either with Flamethrower or Grass Knot. Grass Knot also hits Starmie, Suicune, Hippowdon (lol), Gyara switch-ins, etc. Flamethrower can hit Jirachi, Lucario, Weavile (lol), Breloom, and others weak to fire on the switch in. For those pokemon that Fire + Grass coverage does not handle, T-Wave makes it easier for other pokemon to pick up where Blissey left off.

Including Blissey, however, makes you weaker to Physical attackers, so I suggest replacing Jolteon with defensive Rotom-A. Rotom-A completely patches up your Metagross weakness, is a good switch-in to Stone Edge Lucario (who would otherwise beat you quite handily), can stand up to the omnipresent CB Scizor, has excellent typing that provides awesome resists, and preserves near identical synergy as Jolteon provided.

Rotom-A @ Leftovers
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
-Thunderbolt
-Thunder Wave
-Shadow Ball
-Reflect / Rest

Again, pretty good, I might've made your team worse in a way I didn't realize, but I guess my rate seems worth a test its not too horrible

I definately think its worth a test, both of your suggestions. So I'll give them a shot, even though I think adding Rotom *may* upset the synergy of the team (even though I thought of using it before as well). We shall see if this works. Thanks for the suggestions XD

@BlueBlur: Yeah I thought you would remember the team haha XD. Yeah I changed Infernape's Grass Knot to HP Ice.

 

[tobi10]

rmt

Great lead, I say it becuase I used the same Celebi but with Earth Power over Thunder Wave, 80 Hp evs and a Timid Nature. Think of it, with Earth Power you can 2HKO Metagross and 2HKO Heatran.
good luck!!