RIP Thundurus?

[Arch3r]

Ok, so this was the first successful team I have ever used. I don't really have any rankings, but this team peaked at 1467 on PBC on PO. (People on PBC kinda suck). Anyway, this team started off as Thundurus, Ferrothorn, Blaziken, Garchomp, Umbreon and Starmie, with only ONE member staying the same. In fact, the original RMT I posted for this is over here http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=525083&highlight=Thundurus+Lead Yes I was a n00b when I made this team, but changed stuff out and got better with competitive over time. This team will not be useful anymore due to Thundurus may being banned, so I have decided to retire this team.

ON SEREBII http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=541855

@ Lum Berry
Trait: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Ok, this is the base of the team. Thundurus is a beast, with Lead Sweep 6-0's with great coverage in all of his moves. With BoltBeam coverage in a sense, and Focus Miss for those pesky steel types, Thundurus gets great coverage on anything and rarely can anything take a hit from it.

@ Air Balloon
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Sp. Def / 4 SAtk
Calm Nature (+Sp. Def, -Atk)
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Toxic

Specially Defensive Heatran is pretty good, can sponge hits from all sorts of Pokemon. Can easily switch into any Fire move with Flash Fire, and resists Dragonite's main set down below. Takes hits from Volcarona, one of the best sweepers in the metagame today. Very good Pokemon.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
- Mach Punch
- Payback

Typical Conkeldurr set, can take a lot of Special hits and hit back hard with STAB Drain Punch and recover the damage off, has a pretty good priority STAB in Mach Punch, and takes care of Physic types with Payback. Doesn't mind status either, his attack reaches 624 with any type of status. Bulk Up also helps him get boosts and give him more power and more defense. He is the Physical Tank of this team.

@ Toxic Orb
Trait: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Taunt
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang

This is Dracula, a Pokemon who I have always liked but didn't know how to use. I never bothered with an offensive set, and I am looking forward to using Gliscor as my Physical Sweeper. Taunt to stop an opponent's sweep, SD for obvious set up. I am not sure about the last slot though, because Ice Fang lets me hit Ground, Flying, Grass, and Dragon. It lets me hit D-Nite, and other Dragons but I am not sure really.

@ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Roost
- Spikes

This is my physical wall, one of the best in the game also if you ask me. Skarmory shuts down sandstorm teams and can also phaze to get common threats out of the playing field. Also, I can lay down Spikes and then start Phazing, due to the damage building up over and over until they can deal with Skarmory. Great Pokemon overall, and I think that this will be the solution to this team's failure.

@ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Trick
- Thunderbolt
- Hydro Pump

This is the last Pokemon of my team, Scrotom-W. This is a bastard to deal with for other people who aren't prepared for it, can be used as a lead with Volt Switch to scout out other Pokemon. I hit almost every Sand abuser hard, with Hydro Pump, and can take out some Rain abusers with T-bolt. Trick is for those pesky walls like Blissey, and Pokemon that are taunt-bait can be crippled very very easily.


K, well this is the end of my retired team. Please rate, and give your opinions! Thanks everyone!

 

[afterburn]

Swords Dance Excadrill, Quiver Dance Volcarona, Stall and Bulk Up Toxicroak look like potential problems for your team. The sweepers don't get a bunch of safe opportunities to set-up, but they pretty much get a free set-up on Rotom-W locked into the wrong move (even Volcarona, if the sun is up). Excadrill is only really checked somewhat by Conkeldurr, who doesn't OHKO with Mach Punch, but takes a boatload of damage from +2 LO EQ. Heatran is the only Pokemon which can take Volcarona's hits, but with no SDef investment and no effective moves against it, can't do much. Toxicroak can really only be Tricked by Rotom-W, but you need to take down its sub first, meaning something will go down before that happens. You also have nothing to break through common stall cores, Rotom-W can Trick, Thundurus can also threaten a sweep, but with a Focus Sash (and if they have Hippowdon with Ice Fang...) it's a shaky check. Having 2 SR weak Pokemon makes pHazing from Stall teams even more frustrating for your team.

Swords Dance + Taunt Gliscor over Dragonite solves 3 /4 of your problems. It's an excellent way to deal with SD Gliscor and BU Toxicroak and can efficiently dismantle Stall teams provided you take out the 1 or 2 Pokemon standing in its way (e.g. Jellicent). Gliscor also gives you a better chance against BU Conkeldurr, as you can only really Trick it. Gliscor also takes away that nasty SR weakness (having 2 SR weak, and no spinner is never a good thing). Taking out any other Pokemon would weaken you to other threats, hence Dragonite seemed the most replaceable.

I'm not a fan of Physically Defensive Heatran, as it is outclassed in that expect by other defensive steels with better Defense, and works better as a Special Defensive sponge. But if it is working for you, keep it, but try out Toxic over Substitute and Leftovers over Air Balloon. Toxic will make sure you are not set-up fodder against Volcarona as well as lure out and cripple Gastrodon or Quagsire (who are problematic atm). Since you have sand sweepers covered with Gliscor, Balloon is unneeded on Heatran. Lastly, if Thundurus does get banned this round, you can put a different offensive Electric- type, such as Substitute + Baton Pass Jolteon, as Gliscor or Conkeldurr can make excellent use out of it (since Blissey and Tyranitar love to switch into it). For more info on that set check the smog article.

Gliscor Moveset

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb | Poison Heal
Impish | 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Swords Dance / Taunt / Earthquake / Facade

 

[xxmoosexx]

Blug

Rate coming. Just gettin this out there

SpDef Heatran can sponge quite a few special attacking pokemon and manhandles Volcarona's.

SD Taunt Gliscor really isn't a good way to handle Toxicroak(they run Ice Punch) but they do handle Excadrill quite well.

I suggest switch Heatran out for Slowbro. Slowbro can take earthquakes, gives you a good way to deal with physical attackers that would normally run through your team.

Jirachi+Slowbro is a pretty alright core. Could be better but Im not sure if you want to sacrifice another slot for a third defensive pokemon.

 

[-Tsunami-]

Hey there.

First off, I agree with LK's suggestion of Gliscor over Dragonite, as it will solve a lot of your problems.

However, an SD Toxicroak, DD Scrafty, as well as DD Dragonite with Aqua Tail (used in rain) are still major problems. Therefore, I would replace Jirachi with a Skarmory to fix all three of these issues.

Physically Defensive Skarmory

Hide

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Speed
Impish Nature
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes

Skarmory isn't 2HKO'd by Toxicroak's Cross Chop, and can annihilate it with a Brave Bird. It can phaze out Dragonite as well, and completely wall Scrafty, stopping you from having to rely on Conkeldurr to beat it (if Conkeldurr is weakened by entry hazards, Scrafty can KO with +1 Hi Jump Kick and sweep). It also provides Spikes support for your team, which is always useful.

Finally, to better deal with Volcarona and to better take powerful Draco Meteors from the likes of Latios, change Heatran to a specially defensive variant. The EV Spread for this will be 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef with a Calm Nature. Also, the moveset will be Lava Plume / Protect / Stealth Rock / Toxic; the item will be Leftovers. Toxic lets you annoy bulky waters such as Gastrodon, which will make it easier for Thundurus to sweep. Protect is a great a scouting move, and lets you gain valuable Leftovers recovery.

Finally, change Thundurus's item from Focus Sash to a Lum Berry. Tyranitar is an extremely common lead, and many versions of him run Chople Berry as well. Focus Sash becomes nullified by sandstorm, so it is not as useful. Lum will let you setup on the likes of specially defensive Jirachi and Blissey / Chansey.

Nice team; hope I helped, and good luck!

 

[AB2]

Hi there. Your team could really benefit from spikes support. You have Dragonite, Rotom-W, and Conkeldurr all of which work excellently with spikes support. You also have a few different wall breakers as well so a team member that gives you spikes support is quintessential for these types of teams. With spikes, Dragonite and Rotom-W will also have a much easier time paving the way for a Conkeldurr sweep later in the match as it will be able to pick off more weakened opponents with mach punch. Deoxys-S will work perfectly in this role over Heatran as it provides you with an excellent user of spikes and stealth rock as well as giving you the ability to ko Ferrothorn and Tyranitar very easily. In order for Deoxys to match up against Tyranitar and Ferrothorn well, I would run a set of spikes / stealth rock / superpower / fire punch, adamant, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a focus sash. Even though you use Heatran as your Volcarona counter on this team, Dragonite still does a fine job between it and Rotom-W so you should be fine. If you really do not like Deoxys, Skarmory is another good option, as it counters Excadrill more reliably, but you have it covered for the most part on this team anyways so there is no need to worry.

With that change, I would try changing a few sets up to support Thundurus on this team. Running choice banded Dragonite over your current version and swapping Rotom-W to a choice specs variant would work excellently for this purpose. Not only will banded Dragonite and choice specs Rotom-w work very well with spikes, but Rotom-W will be able lure in threats that plague Thundurus such as Gastrodon and ko with hidden power grass. Choice banded Dragonite combined with Rotom-W will also be able to win against most forms of weather such as sun and rain as Dragonite does excellently against sun teams while Rotom-W can blast away most threats on drizzle teams with choice specs volt switch or thunderbolts.

At this point, you may want to try and run a nasty plot Thundurus lum berry on Thundurus instead of focus sash. Since you aren't running rain on this team, Thundurus is going to have a bit more trouble getting through Jirachi so Lum berry will work excellently in giving you a way to muscle through annoying threats such as Jirachi and simply random status that is thrown around that can cripple Thundurus. You may want to consider running thunder wave on your own Thundurus in order to give you a decent way to check dragon dancers and other Thundurus as well. gl.

 

[Jirachee]

Hey there,

With both Dragonite and Thundurus on your team, I think that Rapid Spin support could be a crucial game winning condition for your team. While Dragonite can Roost off the damage, sometimes having Multiscale active upon switching in is extremely important. Furthermore, if you take AB2's change for a Choice Banded version in account, Dragonite will be able to switch in more often than without Rapid Spin. Thundurus will also appreciate Rapid Spin so it's less vulnerable to revenge kill and strong priority moves such as Dragonite's ExtremeSpeed. I think that Donphan could replace Conkeldurr on your team. First of all, it provides you handy Rapid Spin support while still handling Sand teams like Conkeldurr does, with the added advantage of handling Dragon Dancers such as DD Salamence with Ice Shard, as well as steeling your team against Landorus, all of which can potentially be a great threat to your team. Here's the Donphan set you should use :

Donphan

Donphan @ Leftovers
Impish
Sturdy
EVs : 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
-Earthquake
-Ice Shard
-Rapid Spin
-Stealth Rock

Since you can use Stealth Rock on Donphan whose 4th moveslot is quite unnecessary, I suggest swapping Stealth Rock on your Heatran for Toxic, which would allow it to cripple Volcarona and Gastrodon, since the latter walls a big part of your team, namely Thundurus, your current Heatran and Rotom-W.

Good luck!

 

[King John]

This team is in serious trouble from Shell Smash Cloyster, since it can survive even a boosted Mach Punch from Conkeldurr thanks to Focus Sash and run through your team like a hot knife on butter (yes, even Jirachi and Heatran; both get 2HKO'ed by Razor Shell.) I strongly suggest you add something to set up Stealth Rock to ward off the deadly oyster.

 

[Howard]

Right now, you have a pretty big weakness to 2 incredibly potent sweepers in Excadrill and Volcarona. By running Physically Defensive Heatran, you have absolutely no counter on your team at to Volcarona, who at +1 could run through your team with Fiery Dance/Bug Buzz/HP Rock/Ground. To alleviate some of that pressure, I highly reccomend you switch Heatran to a specially defensive variant with Toxic to help you deal with the boosting bug. Right now your only Excadrill check is Conkeldurr. Switching in to a +2 LO EQ is going to hurt. Bad. And Mach Punch isn't a KO without a Guts Boost/Band. To alleviate some of that stress, I strongly suggest switching Dragonite to a Gliscor. It retains a lot of the synergy you had, while providing a needed check to an otherwise game ending threat. GLB.

 

[Arch3r]

Love the Support!

Swords Dance Excadrill, Quiver Dance Volcarona, Stall and Bulk Up Toxicroak look like potential problems for your team. The sweepers don't get a bunch of safe opportunities to set-up, but they pretty much get a free set-up on Rotom-W locked into the wrong move (even Volcarona, if the sun is up). Excadrill is only really checked somewhat by Conkeldurr, who doesn't OHKO with Mach Punch, but takes a boatload of damage from +2 LO EQ. Heatran is the only Pokemon which can take Volcarona's hits, but with no SDef investment and no effective moves against it, can't do much. Toxicroak can really only be Tricked by Rotom-W, but you need to take down its sub first, meaning something will go down before that happens. You also have nothing to break through common stall cores, Rotom-W can Trick, Thundurus can also threaten a sweep, but with a Focus Sash (and if they have Hippowdon with Ice Fang...) it's a shaky check. Having 2 SR weak Pokemon makes pHazing from Stall teams even more frustrating for your team.

Swords Dance + Taunt Gliscor over Dragonite solves 3 /4 of your problems. It's an excellent way to deal with SD Gliscor and BU Toxicroak and can efficiently dismantle Stall teams provided you take out the 1 or 2 Pokemon standing in its way (e.g. Jellicent). Gliscor also gives you a better chance against BU Conkeldurr, as you can only really Trick it. Gliscor also takes away that nasty SR weakness (having 2 SR weak, and no spinner is never a good thing). Taking out any other Pokemon would weaken you to other threats, hence Dragonite seemed the most replaceable.

I'm not a fan of Physically Defensive Heatran, as it is outclassed in that expect by other defensive steels with better Defense, and works better as a Special Defensive sponge. But if it is working for you, keep it, but try out Toxic over Substitute and Leftovers over Air Balloon. Toxic will make sure you are not set-up fodder against Volcarona as well as lure out and cripple Gastrodon or Quagsire (who are problematic atm). Since you have sand sweepers covered with Gliscor, Balloon is unneeded on Heatran. Lastly, if Thundurus does get banned this round, you can put a different offensive Electric- type, such as Substitute + Baton Pass Jolteon, as Gliscor or Conkeldurr can make excellent use out of it (since Blissey and Tyranitar love to switch into it). For more info on that set check the smog article.

Gliscor Moveset

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb | Poison Heal
Impish | 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 Spe
Swords Dance / Taunt / Earthquake / Facade

Yea, that's a smart idea. I figured this team needed a spinner or something, but this fixes the problem. I'll change the OP soon. Thanks!

Rate coming. Just gettin this out there

SpDef Heatran can sponge quite a few special attacking pokemon and manhandles Volcarona's.

SD Taunt Gliscor really isn't a good way to handle Toxicroak(they run Ice Punch) but they do handle Excadrill quite well.

I suggest switch Heatran out for Slowbro. Slowbro can take earthquakes, gives you a good way to deal with physical attackers that would normally run through your team.

Jirachi+Slowbro is a pretty alright core. Could be better but Im not sure if you want to sacrifice another slot for a third defensive pokemon.

No, I think I am going to run Special Heatran. Slowbro isn't very good, I don't like to use it. At all. I am also going to run Skarmory instead of Jirachi. Skarmory is a great sandstorm cover, and a Gliscor Skarmory Core isn't bad!

Hey there.

First off, I agree with LK's suggestion of Gliscor over Dragonite, as it will solve a lot of your problems.

However, an SD Toxicroak, DD Scrafty, as well as DD Dragonite with Aqua Tail (used in rain) are still major problems. Therefore, I would replace Jirachi with a Skarmory to fix all three of these issues.

Physically Defensive Skarmory

Hide

Skarmory @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 Speed
Impish Nature
- Whirlwind
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Spikes

Skarmory isn't 2HKO'd by Toxicroak's Cross Chop, and can annihilate it with a Brave Bird. It can phaze out Dragonite as well, and completely wall Scrafty, stopping you from having to rely on Conkeldurr to beat it (if Conkeldurr is weakened by entry hazards, Scrafty can KO with +1 Hi Jump Kick and sweep). It also provides Spikes support for your team, which is always useful.

Finally, to better deal with Volcarona and to better take powerful Draco Meteors from the likes of Latios, change Heatran to a specially defensive variant. The EV Spread for this will be 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef with a Calm Nature. Also, the moveset will be Lava Plume / Protect / Stealth Rock / Toxic; the item will be Leftovers. Toxic lets you annoy bulky waters such as Gastrodon, which will make it easier for Thundurus to sweep. Protect is a great a scouting move, and lets you gain valuable Leftovers recovery.

Finally, change Thundurus's item from Focus Sash to a Lum Berry. Tyranitar is an extremely common lead, and many versions of him run Chople Berry as well. Focus Sash becomes nullified by sandstorm, so it is not as useful. Lum will let you setup on the likes of specially defensive Jirachi and Blissey / Chansey.

Nice team; hope I helped, and good luck!

Ok, taking the Skarmory suggestion and using him. Changing Lum Berry also, and Heatran to Specially Defensive. Thanks for all of this!

Hi there. Your team could really benefit from spikes support. You have Dragonite, Rotom-W, and Conkeldurr all of which work excellently with spikes support. You also have a few different wall breakers as well so a team member that gives you spikes support is quintessential for these types of teams. With spikes, Dragonite and Rotom-W will also have a much easier time paving the way for a Conkeldurr sweep later in the match as it will be able to pick off more weakened opponents with mach punch. Deoxys-S will work perfectly in this role over Heatran as it provides you with an excellent user of spikes and stealth rock as well as giving you the ability to ko Ferrothorn and Tyranitar very easily. In order for Deoxys to match up against Tyranitar and Ferrothorn well, I would run a set of spikes / stealth rock / superpower / fire punch, adamant, 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe with a focus sash. Even though you use Heatran as your Volcarona counter on this team, Dragonite still does a fine job between it and Rotom-W so you should be fine. If you really do not like Deoxys, Skarmory is another good option, as it counters Excadrill more reliably, but you have it covered for the most part on this team anyways so there is no need to worry.

With that change, I would try changing a few sets up to support Thundurus on this team. Running choice banded Dragonite over your current version and swapping Rotom-W to a choice specs variant would work excellently for this purpose. Not only will banded Dragonite and choice specs Rotom-w work very well with spikes, but Rotom-W will be able lure in threats that plague Thundurus such as Gastrodon and ko with hidden power grass. Choice banded Dragonite combined with Rotom-W will also be able to win against most forms of weather such as sun and rain as Dragonite does excellently against sun teams while Rotom-W can blast away most threats on drizzle teams with choice specs volt switch or thunderbolts.

At this point, you may want to try and run a nasty plot Thundurus lum berry on Thundurus instead of focus sash. Since you aren't running rain on this team, Thundurus is going to have a bit more trouble getting through Jirachi so Lum berry will work excellently in giving you a way to muscle through annoying threats such as Jirachi and simply random status that is thrown around that can cripple Thundurus. You may want to consider running thunder wave on your own Thundurus in order to give you a decent way to check dragon dancers and other Thundurus as well. gl.

I am changing Dragonite anyway. And I am going to change to Lum Berry soon. oh and running Skarm of course

This team is in serious trouble from Shell Smash Cloyster, since it can survive even a boosted Mach Punch from Conkeldurr thanks to Focus Sash and run through your team like a hot knife on butter (yes, even Jirachi and Heatran; both get 2HKO'ed by Razor Shell.) I strongly suggest you add something to set up Stealth Rock to ward off the deadly oyster.

Got the SR with Heatran

Right now, you have a pretty big weakness to 2 incredibly potent sweepers in Excadrill and Volcarona. By running Physically Defensive Heatran, you have absolutely no counter on your team at to Volcarona, who at +1 could run through your team with Fiery Dance/Bug Buzz/HP Rock/Ground. To alleviate some of that pressure, I highly reccomend you switch Heatran to a specially defensive variant with Toxic to help you deal with the boosting bug. Right now your only Excadrill check is Conkeldurr. Switching in to a +2 LO EQ is going to hurt. Bad. And Mach Punch isn't a KO without a Guts Boost/Band. To alleviate some of that stress, I strongly suggest switching Dragonite to a Gliscor. It retains a lot of the synergy you had, while providing a needed check to an otherwise game ending threat. GLB.

Got it. thanks everyone!

 

[BKC]

Ironically, opposing Thundurus is the biggest threat to this team. It can grab a Nasty Plot as it scares out Skarmory or Gliscor and your only check, Rotom-W, can't switch in safely since it takes a ton of damage from Thunderbolt. Opposing Rotom-W are also troublesome since nothing likes switching into its Electric + Water coverage. I think your own Rotom is replaceable because his electric typing overlaps with Thundurus's and causes redundancy; I suggest using Gastrodon in his place. This lets you retain your counter to rain teams but Gastro has the advantage of countering both these threats, and it has recovery to boot.

Gastrodon @ Leftovers | Calm | Storm Drain | 252 HP / 16 SpA / 240 SpD
Scald | Ice Beam | Toxic | Recover

One minor change you might want to consider is running Protect over Earth Power on Heatran. Hitting other Tran isn't that big a deal since you've got several solid counters to them, and you can only take their Earth Power if you're near full health, which won't always be the case. Protect, on the other hand, is extremely useful for racking up Lefties recovery, racking up Toxic damage, and scouting opposing choice users.

gl!

 

[RhyssaFireheart]

I agree with BKC luckily Gliscor is in the team so thundurus sweeping is reduced to 60%. Your whole team doesn't have a special wall that isn't koed by thunder/thunderbolt. Maybe careful natured scarfed jirachi
with ice punch may fix your problem.

 

[Arch3r]

Bump. This team has been way off front page

 

[Evire]

Grass Knot could be an option over Focus Blast on Thundurus; as Heatran can take care of most steal types, it can still hit Tyranitar, and it stops Gastrodon walling Thundurus' sweep. :]

 

[Harlot]

This team is in serious trouble from Shell Smash Cloyster, since it can survive even a boosted Mach Punch from Conkeldurr thanks to Focus Sash and run through your team like a hot knife on butter (yes, even Jirachi and Heatran; both get 2HKO'ed by Razor Shell.) I strongly suggest you add something to set up Stealth Rock to ward off the deadly oyster.

Even though it'll live the boosted Mach Punch cuz sash, another will take it out.
Not a problem.

 

[Arch3r]

Bump, just updated sprites and descriptions. Looking for more rates!