Ojama
Banned deucer.
Approved by BKC, leader of the Chicken McNuggets
Hey0! After years of fruitless conversations about a potential retest of Latias in DPP OU, I have decided to make the first move and start a discussion about the matter. Before listing the arguments in favor of an unban of Latias, I'd like to mention that this thread is supported by most people among the DPP Council, one member of which approached me the other day to make the thread. It's very important that you all understand that it is going to be very hard to objectively test Latias' impact on the metagame with a Suspect Ladder given how inactive the DPP Ladder is, which means that this discussion will be extremely subjective and based off a lot of theorymoning, so keep it friendly and keep in mind that this whole conversation will be relatively subjective and a way to survey the general opinion about a potential unban of Latias in the tier. Whether your arguments are in favor or not of an unban, make sure to elaborate.
First of all, I personally think that Latias should have never been banned in the first place and was wrongly banned because Salamence skewed things entirely. Latias was banned before Salamence for reasons I don't really understand, but in the end Salamence got still banned 2 months later because it was the real problem, banning Latias didn't make any changes. Salamence was so overpowered that it required different ways to check or "counter" its various sets, which opened people to be weaker to Latias which was back in the days on almost every team for her defensive features. Therefore, Latias was seen as an unstoppable weapon offensively (the Specs set mainly) when in reality it was Salamence's fault.
Second of all, I think the game has changed a lot ever since Latias got banned and it's pretty clear that the way we would handle Latias today would be radically different from the one we used before. Some sets were unknown or never used, and some Pokémons weren't as often used as they are now (Zapdos and all its sets, Offensive Suicune, Offensive Starmie, CBApe...) because of Latias and Salamence when it reality Latias is nothing more than a check to all these threats, which only shows that Latias would have a defensive role, more than an offensive role, like she always has had in the different tiers in which she is used. What's the difference between BW2 OU and DPP OU? Ferrothorn. Besides it, the Latias counters are the same: Tyranitar, Jirachi, Scizor, Blissey, SDef Heatran, Bronzong, SDef Skarmory... And let's be honest, we are all afraid of Latios in BW2 OU, not of Latias. Let alone the fact that Ferrothorn isn't their best counter when HP Fire is a thing, unless you're in rain.
Right now the tier is going around in circle and I think re-adding Latias would have nothing but a positive impact on it, without drastically changing things. Offensively-wise, there are much stronger threats than Latias' Draco Meteor, such as Dragonite, Heatran, Zapdos... Latias would be a great add for the defensive balance of the tier because right now some stuff are extremely hard to handle like Infernape. BKC hosted a DPP Latias Tournament and told me that there weren't much changes with or without Latias, because in the end, the stuff you'd use to check or counter Latias are in almost every team right now. For sure unbanning Latias would change something, inevitably, but I don't think it would be that big of a change, and I'm sure it would be nothing but positive. Latias' defensive characteristics would foster a more offensively oriented metagame because we wouldn't need to use 3-4 different Pokémons to check certain threats when Latias can do it on her own (more or less), and this is something we should encourage.
The only negative aspect of a Latias unban would be the Dugtrio + Latias core than can be relatively hard to beat. Maybe the issue lies somewhere else.
Hey0! After years of fruitless conversations about a potential retest of Latias in DPP OU, I have decided to make the first move and start a discussion about the matter. Before listing the arguments in favor of an unban of Latias, I'd like to mention that this thread is supported by most people among the DPP Council, one member of which approached me the other day to make the thread. It's very important that you all understand that it is going to be very hard to objectively test Latias' impact on the metagame with a Suspect Ladder given how inactive the DPP Ladder is, which means that this discussion will be extremely subjective and based off a lot of theorymoning, so keep it friendly and keep in mind that this whole conversation will be relatively subjective and a way to survey the general opinion about a potential unban of Latias in the tier. Whether your arguments are in favor or not of an unban, make sure to elaborate.
First of all, I personally think that Latias should have never been banned in the first place and was wrongly banned because Salamence skewed things entirely. Latias was banned before Salamence for reasons I don't really understand, but in the end Salamence got still banned 2 months later because it was the real problem, banning Latias didn't make any changes. Salamence was so overpowered that it required different ways to check or "counter" its various sets, which opened people to be weaker to Latias which was back in the days on almost every team for her defensive features. Therefore, Latias was seen as an unstoppable weapon offensively (the Specs set mainly) when in reality it was Salamence's fault.
Second of all, I think the game has changed a lot ever since Latias got banned and it's pretty clear that the way we would handle Latias today would be radically different from the one we used before. Some sets were unknown or never used, and some Pokémons weren't as often used as they are now (Zapdos and all its sets, Offensive Suicune, Offensive Starmie, CBApe...) because of Latias and Salamence when it reality Latias is nothing more than a check to all these threats, which only shows that Latias would have a defensive role, more than an offensive role, like she always has had in the different tiers in which she is used. What's the difference between BW2 OU and DPP OU? Ferrothorn. Besides it, the Latias counters are the same: Tyranitar, Jirachi, Scizor, Blissey, SDef Heatran, Bronzong, SDef Skarmory... And let's be honest, we are all afraid of Latios in BW2 OU, not of Latias. Let alone the fact that Ferrothorn isn't their best counter when HP Fire is a thing, unless you're in rain.
Right now the tier is going around in circle and I think re-adding Latias would have nothing but a positive impact on it, without drastically changing things. Offensively-wise, there are much stronger threats than Latias' Draco Meteor, such as Dragonite, Heatran, Zapdos... Latias would be a great add for the defensive balance of the tier because right now some stuff are extremely hard to handle like Infernape. BKC hosted a DPP Latias Tournament and told me that there weren't much changes with or without Latias, because in the end, the stuff you'd use to check or counter Latias are in almost every team right now. For sure unbanning Latias would change something, inevitably, but I don't think it would be that big of a change, and I'm sure it would be nothing but positive. Latias' defensive characteristics would foster a more offensively oriented metagame because we wouldn't need to use 3-4 different Pokémons to check certain threats when Latias can do it on her own (more or less), and this is something we should encourage.
The only negative aspect of a Latias unban would be the Dugtrio + Latias core than can be relatively hard to beat. Maybe the issue lies somewhere else.
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