Remind me why I haven't done a single DP RMT Thread on Smogon yet?

[Go2Sleep02]

Smogon is my favorite Pokemon website and I have been a long time lurker of it since 2005 and made my account in 2007 well anyway I have decided to do an RMT thread. I have not battled in 5 months so I might be a bit off with this team.

Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
252 Atk / 212 HP / 44 Spe
Jolly
~ Dragon Dance
~ Dragon Rush
~ Fire Fang
~ Earthquake

This Salamence is a little more bulky so it can surive some hits better and can switch in on Heracross a lot easier. I have Dragon Rush here because as crappy as the accuracy is it takes on Blissey and Cresselia without the need of Crunch and Brick Break and we all know Fire Fang is here for the Steel-type Pokemon walls like Forretress and Skarmory. Earthquake here still handles Tyranitar and Heatran.


Salamence Life Orbed Dragon Dance Dragon Rush against 252 HP + Def Blissey.

83.47% - 98.18%

Salamence Life Orbed Dragon Dance Brick Break against 252 HP + Def Blissey

83.61% - 98.46%


Salamence Life Orbed Dragon Dance Dragon Rush against Standard Support Cresselia

59.84% - 70.21%

Salamence Life Orbed Crunch against Standard Support Cresselia

63.99% - 75.13%

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
240 HP / 136 Spe / 76 Def / 56 Atk
Impish
~ Wish
~ Zen Headbutt
~ Light Screen
~ U-Turn

Jirachi covers Salamence if it is meet by Weavile or some other physical sweeper. Light Screen, Wish, U-Turn.

Weezing @ Leftovers
Levitate
252 HP / 252 Def / 6 SpA
Bold
~ Haze
~ Pain Spilt
~ Thunderbolt
~ Flamethrower

Big Smogon is not OU anymore, but its still a good wall to use. Haze will phaze the stat upping ways of some Pokemon such as Salamence, Garchomp, and some slower Suicune. Thunderbolt is obivously here for Gyarados and Flamethrower is for an attack against Steel-type Pokemon as well as Grass-types. I am considering Rest Talking Weezing.

Togekiss @ Leftovers
Serene Grace
252 HP / 252 SpD / 6 Def
Calm
~ Air Slash
~ Roost
~ Thunder Wave
~ Substitute

Yes I am going the cheap route of flinch haxing Togekiss. Substitute helps scout Pokemon and helps hide behind something on the switch while Thunder Wave is to slow down Pokemon and of course Air Slash is for STAB and flinching.

Starmie @ Leftovers
Natural Cure
216 Spe / 160 HP / 132 SpA
Timid
~ Rapid Spin
~ Recover
~ Ice Beam
~ Surf

Starmie is helpful against the Dragons and helps keep Stealth Rock out of the field for Salamence and Togekiss. Recover will help this Starfish last longer.

Rhyperior @ Choice Band
Solid Rock
252 Atk / 158 HP / 100 Spe
Adamant
~ Megahorn
~ Earthquake
~ Avalanche
~ Stone Edge

People always get on Rhyperior's 4x weakness to Grass and Water, but forget how hard this thing hits. Megahorn is going to be hitting Celebi and Bronzong while Avalanche will hurt the Dragons and Gliscor. Earthquake and Stone Edge is for STAB and the 100 Spe EVs is to outrun Mixed Swampert and 2HKO on the switch with Earthquake.







Thank you for reading Smogonites and thank you gtsplus.net for the art.

 

[Tangerine]

I would watch out for Zapdos, who laughs at every member of your team sans Rhyperior (Who lacks healing anyway, and is 2hko'd easily by HP Ice. This means Timid Zapdos will sweep your team 6-0, or even Jolteon (lol).

To counter this I recommend replacing Rhyperior with Swampert, who does the "I'm weak to a 4x but you can't kill me anyway" thing a lot better since Rhyperior enjoys dying with his pitiful SpDef. Swampert and Togekiss is an amazing Combo, since Swampert counters the things that counters Togekiss (sans HP Grass Zapdos but who uses that). If you want Swampert to hit hard, you can run a CB set but I just recommend a typical mixpert set that should be more beneficial to your team.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

Well thanks for all the help Tangerine I was thinking of Swampert as well, but I was being a Rhyperior fanboy.

 

[Cooley]

For one, i would like you to thank me for that Salamence set, but you don't have to. Jolteon with HP Grass will run right through this team no problem. Matter of fact, Garchomp will run right through this team. You have no safe switch into it. Once Jirachi switches in fear of Earthquake, a Swords Dance Dragon Claw will lol @ Weezing, while you have to Haze next turn. A Sub Garchomp will demolish your team quicker than a Lil Wayne demolishes beats. Weezing can't do a thing to it, haze won't keep you alive forever.

Azelf after Nasty Plot also beats your team no problem, so just watch out i guess. Lastly, watch out for Life Orb Starmie and CB Tyranitar. Good luck fixing your team.

Also, here is the Salamence set you forget to say thank you about.

Name: Dragon Dance Mence
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
- Roost / Earthquake / Brick Break
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Attack / 212 HP / 44 Speed
 
Comments: This can run right through a team is a Trainer isn't ready for it. 
The Jolly Nature allows you to invest in more HP ev's than Speed. 
While only taking 33% from CB Megahorn makes him a fine 
Heracross switch in and then DD'ing up after he switches out. 
Also the reason why i added Dragon Rush as an option for the simple 
fact it gives you a steady base power, to take on Cresselia, 
and Blissey without having to have Brick Break or Crunch. 
Fire Fang is there for Bronzong, Forrtress and Skarmory. 
The last slot can help you heal with Roost, take on Metagross and 
Heatran better with Earthquake, or Brick Break for Heatran as well, 
but helps vs Blissey and Tyranitar.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

For one, i would like you to thank me for that Salamence set, but you don't have to. Jolteon with HP Grass will run right through this team no problem. Matter of fact, Garchomp will run right through this team. You have no safe switch into it. Once Jirachi switches in fear of Earthquake, a Swords Dance Dragon Claw will lol @ Weezing, while you have to Haze next turn. A Sub Garchomp will demolish your team quicker than a Lil Wayne demolishes beats. Weezing can't do a thing to it, haze won't keep you alive forever.

Azelf after Nasty Plot also beats your team no problem, so just watch out i guess. Lastly, watch out for Life Orb Starmie and CB Tyranitar. Good luck fixing your team.

Also, here is the Salamence set you forget to say thank you about.

Name: Dragon Dance Mence
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Fang
- Dragon Claw / Dragon Rush
- Roost / Earthquake / Brick Break
Item: Life Orb
Nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Attack / 212 HP / 44 Speed
 
Comments: This can run right through a team is a Trainer isn't ready for it. 
The Jolly Nature allows you to invest in more HP ev's than Speed. 
While only taking 33% from CB Megahorn makes him a fine 
Heracross switch in and then DD'ing up after he switches out. 
Also the reason why i added Dragon Rush as an option for the simple 
fact it gives you a steady base power, to take on Cresselia, 
and Blissey without having to have Brick Break or Crunch. 
Fire Fang is there for Bronzong, Forrtress and Skarmory. 
The last slot can help you heal with Roost, take on Metagross and 
Heatran better with Earthquake, or Brick Break for Heatran as well, 
but helps vs Blissey and Tyranitar.

Thank you for what? That set I saw on Teamhydraco and I dought you posted before Slims. Wow don't I feel dum well thanks for all the help Cooley.

 

[Taylor]

I appreciate your rate in this particular thread, Cooley, but you just left the Azelf weakness open instead . It's actually quite a big problem if I say so myself, not just something to look out for. And that Salamence wasn't exactly stolen considering there is one for public use here at Smogon, which is actually a better spread than the one you seem to think belongs to you.

Physical hits from the Ground and Ice-types in general seem to be a problem here. Togekiss and Salamence won't enjoy Mamoswine's STAB Ice Fang / Ice Shard while Jirachi, Rhyperior and Starmie lose a huge chunk of their HP from Earthquake + Life Orb. Weezing can only do so much here; countering Gyarados, Lucario, Heracross, Mamoswine, Garchomp, Tyranitar(to name a few) and so on until it eventually cripples to the ground.

While Jirachi is listed as a Gengar counter, it won't enjoy switching in on STAB + Life Orb Shadow Ball especially when the threat of Hypnosis is always waiting in the wings.

I think it's safe to say we should remove Rhyperior sooner rather than later. As Tangerine suggested, Swampert would give you some more "bulk" on the physical side, but that Azelf still sits there looking for an opening. I'm thinking of a possible double switch where we replace both Togekiss and Rhyperior for Swampert and Heatran. It may be the standard, boring way, yet it's safe to say it's the most efficient. Hopefully, you can replenish Swampert's health with Wish from Jirachi in order to keep them physical threats at bay. Starmie will be able to revenge kill Garchomp if the ever so popular Swords Dance + Yache Berry Garchomp takes out Swampert, whereas before you had to waste Starmie just to take Garchomp's health low but not finding the final blow, which left only left you with Weezing and Flamethrower here everything else were OHKOed. Atleast you have two solid Pokemon with Ice Beam to OHKO Garchomp now. That said, it allows Heatran to use the Rest + Sleep Talk set instead of having to revenge kill opposing Garchomp so it can now absorb status and stop that Azelf from running rampant.

Here are the sets:

Swampert (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Torrent
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/8 Spd/32 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Avalanche / Ice Punch
- Protect / Waterfall / Toxic / Roar

Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP/90 SAtk/168 SDef
Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

I know I've rambled on for ages, but hopefully this should give the team that "cutting edge". Please lead with Swampert to set up Stealth Rock whilst saving your Salamence for a late-game sweep.

 

[Go2Sleep02]

Na thats his EV Spread on Salamence Taylor and I was just about to breed that first team, but thank you for everything now I have to hunt down Heatran after I get my national dex.

 

[birabel is win]

Aura sphere/flamethrower on togekiss over sub so that it's not walled by any steel with sub/a recovery move.

 

[Taylor]

Well either way it seemed like he shouldn't have said that, but I guess it's understandable. Also, why not try this on Shoddy first? It seems like you will be going through alot to get this in your game cartridge. Perhaps testing it on Shoddy Battle first would be more sensible in a sense that you can get used to it competitively where the metagame is ferocious and at its best. Then take it to WiFi after you're satisfied with the results and happy to call it a solid team for future play.

 

[Opsis]

hmmmaybe i am a noob but...

your weezing is meant to be BOLD and not IMPISH right?

and taylor u talk about how the team has a weakness to ice and ground so u advise removing togekiss a pokemon immune to ground and the spec wall of the team and then replacing it with heatran a pokemon with a 4x weakness?

:/

 

[Resist]

or try Rock Polish over CBAND on RHyperior=

Rock Polish
Stone Edge
EQ
MEgahorn

@ Life Orb

252 Evs Speed/Attack/Jolly

 

[Rag]

Salamence @ Life Orb
Intimidate
252 Atk / 212 HP / 44 Spe

Gives 384 HP / 369 Atk / 271 Speed

Adamant nature with 212 HP, 156 Atk and 140 Spe gives 384 HP / 379 Atk / 271 Speed

Also, this is probably mentioned already, but nothing on your team can take on a Life Orb Gengar. A decent Pursuiter wouldn't be such a bad idea.

 

[Anti]

Rag covered part of what I was going to say (those EVs on Mence are terrible) but also the moveset.

Dragon Rush: 100 BP x 1.5 (STAB) x .75 (Accuracy) = 112.5 = 112 average base power.
Dragon Claw: 80 BP x 1.5 (STAB) x 1 (Accuracy, unneeded) = 120 average base power.

Dragon Claw > Dragon Rush.

Why Fire Fang? You've got a Life Orb. Use Fire Blast or Flamethrower, it'll damage more the things you'll be using it on.

Bulkiness in general is killed by Life Orb.

 

[Cooley]

Rag covered part of what I was going to say (those EVs on Mence are terrible) but also the moveset.

Dragon Rush: 100 BP x 1.5 (STAB) x .75 (Accuracy) = 112.5 = 112 average base power.
Dragon Claw: 80 BP x 1.5 (STAB) x 1 (Accuracy, unneeded) = 120 average base power.

Dragon Claw > Dragon Rush.

Why Fire Fang? You've got a Life Orb. Use Fire Blast or Flamethrower, it'll damage more the things you'll be using it on.

Bulkiness in general is killed by Life Orb.

Probably because after 1 DD, Fire Fang does for to Bronzong and Celebi. Fire Fang still kills Forretress and Scizor. Fire Blast is really just for Skarmory. Bronzong and Celebi > Skarmory. Fire Fang still does a number on Skarmory anyway.

 

[Taylor]

and taylor u talk about how the team has a weakness to ice and ground so u advise removing togekiss a pokemon immune to ground and the spec wall of the team and then replacing it with heatran a pokemon with a 4x weakness?

:/

Well before the team wasn't able to cope with Mamoswine at all, but hopefully with Swampert aswell as Weezing and the addition of Wish support, he will be able to bypass that minor problem. Most teams do have common Ground and Ice-type weaknesses because them two cover a majority of the OU Pokemon for super effective, although he had Pokemon that were OHKOed left, right and centre.

Heatran is a decent special wall in its own right. Surf and Earth Power from Heatran won't be too fitting, but he has Starmie who is not phazed at all by "bulky waters" or Heatan.

Although you brought up a valid point about Weezing's nature, and I apologise for not recognising that myself. Please replace Impish with a Bold considering you're using special attacks.

 

[Colonel M]

Urk, agreeing on many things that have been rambled on. Salamence's EVs are terrible for one thing. At this rate you might as well go with a MixMence or just attempt a BulkyDDMence, if that's what you want. I'd disagree that Life Orb is stealing your 'Mence's bulkiness but without Roost you're just fucking yourself over tenfold.

Obviously you want Bold on Weezing and you want to slightly change that EV set a bit. 188 HP / 252 Def / 60 SAtk will give you maximum Leftovers recovery and also helps 2HKO Heracross easier. I'd also advise Will-O-Wisp over Haze since Weezing would prefer to cripple things with a burn than to try to stop a Calm Mind Suicune like how you've said you wanted to do.

At the rate of this you have 4 Pokemon that are BoltBeam weak and Jirachi won't enjoy a lot of repeated Surfs and Weezing isn't even going to think about Starmie. I'd just slap Swampert in here somewhere, primarily over Rhyperior. IF you choose to keep Rhyperior, I'd switch things up a bit. I don't exactly remember the EVs and such, but I'd build a SubRhyperior with Substitute / Stone Edge / Earthquake / Fire Punch (or Swords Dance or Megahorn) might be something to consider. Use enough EVs so that your Substitute isn't broken by a Blissey Ice Beam at least (I'm not 100% sure that you can EV yourself to take standard 269 Ice Beams...). Obviously add Tyranitar or Hippowdon to give Sandstream, thus allowing your EVs to work out. I'd also just kick out 'Mence and Togekiss if you choose this route. I'd think about Gliscor over Weezing too if you want... but then again this would mean that Starmie would have to carry Thunderbolt to handle Gyarados.

OR I'd go crazy and try Rock Polish since Speed is something that Rhyperior lacks and there's not a whole lot of paralysis going on in this team (Garchomp doesn't mind Thunder Wave). Rhyperior isn't too bad with Rock Polish and still can sweep with it late-game.

Togekiss DOES seem to be the weakest link next to Rhyperior. Another contender other than Swampert would probably be Heatran, but a THIRD would be Snorlax. It can spread paralysis with Body Slam allowing you to hit most Pokemon (excluding Ghosts) for the most part and still tearing apart teams in general.

One last note: if you keep Togekiss replace Substitute with Aura Sphere.

EDIT: Easier reading for the Rhyperior EVs and moveset.

- Substitute
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Fire Punch / Megahorn / Swords Dance
EVs: 132 HP/16 Atk/136 Def/224 SDef
Item: Leftovers

I'd recommend at least Swords Dance but Megahorn and Fire Punch also work.

 

[obi]

Obviously you want Bold on Weezing and you want to slightly change that EV set a bit. 188 HP / 252 Def / 60 SAtk will give you maximum Leftovers recovery and also helps 2HKO Heracross easier. I'd also advise Will-O-Wisp over Haze since Weezing would prefer to cripple things with a burn than to try to stop a Calm Mind Suicune like how you've said you wanted to do.

Unless you're worried about maximizing the effect of Pain Split, 252 HP / 188 Def is strictly superior. You get better ability to take both physical and special hits.