In the PR thread on Topic Leadership, I included the following proposal in "Appendix A" to the proposal:If you are not an experienced member of the CAP community, it is strongly recommended that you do not post in this thread.
This thread is intended to contain intelligent discussion and commentary by experienced members of the CAP project regarding CAP policy, process, and rules. As such, the content of this thread will be moderated more strictly than other threads on the forum. The posting rules for Policy Review threads are contained here.
I've received several questions about The Kitchen, and I realize my description was pretty vague. I've been writing A TON over the past several days. I was sick of it, and so I just kinda threw that Kitchen idea out there without explaining it too much. In hindsight, I realize this idea is almost completely separate from the issue of Topic Leadership, and deserves to be discussed independently.Topic Leadership said:I want to make a new discussion thread early in the process and leave it open for the duration of the project -- it will be called "The Kitchen". The Kitchen is a thread to discuss flavor. Get it? Kitchen?...flavor?... yeah, bad pun, I know. But, I'm a dork like that, so deal with it. Anyway, the Topic Leader will be the THE SOLE JUDGE of all flavor issues with the pokemon. In the past we have said "Flavor doesn't matter" -- when it does matter... just not as much as competitive stuff. Well, in the hands of a strong, respectable Topic Leader, we can actually address certain flavor concerns -- and let the TL have final say on all flavor debates. The Kitchen will be the place to lobby the TL on flavor issues, and where the TL will announce his judgments on flavor.
So, in this PR thread, I'd like to dig deeper into my proposal for The Kitchen. This addresses the overall importance of flavor on the CAP project, and how we acknowledge, control, and benefit from flavor discussions and debates.
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The Kitchen is not intended as a way to change any existing flavor steps in CAP -- it is intended to be a catch-all for all the other flavor disputes that arise in the competitive threads. Most of those disputes are related to the stats, moves, and abilities that a pokemon "should or should not" have, due to other aspects of the pokemon. For example, these are examples of purely flavor-related arguments:
"I don't think this pokemon should have a high <fill-in-the-blank> stat, because it has <fill-in-the-blank> type."
"This pokemon should not have <fill-in-the-blank> ability, because it's design looks like <fill-in-the-blank>."
"This pokemon could never use <fill-in-the-blank> move."
"This pokemon should/should not get the <fill-in-the-blank> TM because <fill-in-the-blank> is the obvious rule followed by Nintendo ingame."
"It doesn't make sense for a pokemon with <fill-in-the-blank> type weakness/resistance, to get <fill-in-the-blank> move or ability."
Normally, we dismiss all discussions like this in competitive threads -- usually with comments like "Shut the fuck up, fanboy" or simply "Focus Punch Wooper". I think we should continue to disallow flavor discussions in competitive threads. We cannot distract competitive discussions with endless flavor bitching and arguing. However that does not mean that ALL flavor arguments are completely irrelevant."This pokemon should not have <fill-in-the-blank> ability, because it's design looks like <fill-in-the-blank>."
"This pokemon could never use <fill-in-the-blank> move."
"This pokemon should/should not get the <fill-in-the-blank> TM because <fill-in-the-blank> is the obvious rule followed by Nintendo ingame."
"It doesn't make sense for a pokemon with <fill-in-the-blank> type weakness/resistance, to get <fill-in-the-blank> move or ability."
Whether you like it or not -- we do not call our project "Create-A-Fictional-Battle-Simulation-Character". It's called "Create-A-Pokemon". As such, we must deal with the reality that most people in the Smogon community carry certain "Pokemon flavor assumptions" with them. If we completely ignore all the flavor background in Pokemon -- we will alienate the participation pool for this project. While there may be a small handful of diehard server battlers that are content with building an efficient combination of stats and moves and calling it a "Pokemon" -- most people are NOT. Most people assume that CAP pokemon are supposed to be... Pokemon.
The problem is there is no clear definition as to the rules for making a Pokemon. I don't know if GameFreak has any rules, and if they do -- I will never get to see them. That's why we disallow people from posting comments that imply that rules exist for creating pokemon. But that doesn't mean that flavor is completely thrown out the door on CAP. It just means that we can't make any set rules about it. We need to acknowledge that every individual person has a perception as to what "makes sense" and what does not on a Pokemon.
For example, what if I proposed a new move called "Doom Mode". The effect of the move is that it converts the battlefield into a first-person shooter field, and the pokemon using the move is holding the gun. You get five shots to kill the opposing pokemon, while they attempt to dodge your bullets in real time. Two hits kills their pokemon forever, and they can't use them ever again in battle.
What if I told you I could implement this move on the CAP server? What if a huge majority of the community voted that "Doom Mode" would be the coolest fucking move they ever saw? Should we allow it? Hell no we shouldn't. Because it doesn't "make sense" in Pokemon. Even if we all thought it was great fun -- it would instantly disconnect our project from competitive Pokemon, because we would be making a new game entirely. Newcomers to the CAP project would look at our "Doom Mode" and say "What the fuck? This isn't Pokemon!"
Technically, I am rejecting "Doom Mode" for flavor reasons. Please don't get pedantic about "Doom Mode", or the fact that ALL our new CAP creations are "not Pokemon". I'm just using that as an over-the-top example of a completely ridiculous suggestion, to illustrate that flavor CAN matter. It DOES matter that CAP pokemon "make sense" within the spirit and example of the game of Pokemon.
Unfortunately, we really don't have a way to address anything related to flavor outside of things like the art and name threads. For example, here's some flavor issues that have come up on past projects:
"Should a pokemon have an ability that negates a 4x weakness? (Syclant)"
"What is the realistic upper limit for speed on a conventional OU pokemon? (Stratagem)"
"Should a Rock pokemon NOT get Stealth Rock? (Stratagem)
"Can a pokemon without any obvious way to manipulate air flow, use the move Tailwind? (Fidgit)"
"All Fighting-types should get Bulk Up. (Arghonaut)"
I am not going to rehash those arguments here, and I don't want anyone else to address them in this thread either. I merely present them as examples of pure flavor disputes, that I think are reasonable for the average learned Pokemon player to consider "arguable". "What is the realistic upper limit for speed on a conventional OU pokemon? (Stratagem)"
"Should a Rock pokemon NOT get Stealth Rock? (Stratagem)
"Can a pokemon without any obvious way to manipulate air flow, use the move Tailwind? (Fidgit)"
"All Fighting-types should get Bulk Up. (Arghonaut)"
The problem is -- there is really no place to have an argument about this stuff. And even if we argue about it, there is really no way to decide what to do about it. I propose The Kitchen is the place where we argue about stuff like this, and the Topic Leader is the one who makes all the decisions about the outcome of the arguments. No polls, no bold votes -- clear executive fiat. And if the decision has implications on a competitive thread, then the TL will announce his decision and we will abide by it. For example, if The Kitchen had existed on past CAP projects, we might have seen TL announcements like this:
"Stratagem must get Stealth Rock for flavor reasons which have been discussed in The Kitchen. Please see that thread for more information and background."
I do have some fears about making a thread dedicated to flavor debates. I am concerned that The Kitchen will be a never-ending shitstorm of noob fanboy posts. However, I think it is probably better to give an outlet for flavor posts, rather than try to eliminate it from the project completely. It's hard to suppress all flavor, since it is such a natural thing for Pokemon players to consider -- particularly when we have entire process steps dedicated to particular flavor aspects (Art, Name, Sprite, etc). The Kitchen will be a place for all the other flavor stuff. And in that thread, hopefully we can develop a general "community opinion" (not formal rules or definitions) about what kinds of flavor issues are worth discussing, and which ones are totally irrelevant."Arghonaut is not allowed to have Bulk Up, despite flavor issues that were discussed in The Kitchen. Please see that thread for more information and background."
I realize this idea is somewhat controversial, and it will certainly have some problems. But I think The Kitchen will do more good than harm.