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SPOILERS! Pokemon Sun and Moon Full Game Datamine General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Nexus
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We won't know as we can't get the Alolan formes in ORAS and the tutor moves (I believe) aren't in SUMO. And yeah, it's been proven that Knock Off hasn't changed
A sandshrew from XY can have Knock Off. An Alolan sandshrew can't have Knock Off since it couldn't be coming from XY.
You can't say that for certain, though.
Also there's no move tutors beyond the usual suspects so move tutored alolan forms would be illegal anyway
That's not how it works
There are certain combinations that aren't legal (Like Soft Boiled and Unaware Clef, Unaware is from gen 5 onwards, but Soft Boiled is only in gen 3)
And the alolas are not like the Shaymin/Sky thing, they don't have the same level up moves nor have same egg moves
crosses fingers
Pls game freak, please just let me use Phione on Battle Spot!!
I heard that the 'ate' abilies lost the 30% boost. Is that true?
Okay, one more gripe about Gen VII before I go to bed. This time, I'm going to use statistics! It gets messy, though, but the conclusion should be solid.
Backstory first: One of my favourite aspects of Pokémon gameplay is evolution. I really like seeing a Pokémon grow from humble beginnings into a hulking beast, or at least into a well-rounded, high-statted third stage 'mon with a wide movepool. The process of evolution represents a milestone in a team member's growth, with a great boost in power, a change of appearance, and often even a total change of playstyle.
I like seeing Pokémon evolve, and it's even better when they have three evolutionary stages. That way, you start out with a wimpy 'mon, have a middle stage period with adequate power, and then a final stage with its full power potential realized. Going straight from "no potential" to "full potential" feels a little rushed, and staying in the same form all the time is just boring.
You probably understand where I'm going with this: Gen VII has awfully few three-stage families. And it's even worse when you discount the typical lines. Apart from the mandatory starters, the early route bird, the early route bug, and the mandatory pseudo-legendary, can you guess how many three-stage families we get in Sun & Moon?
One.
Well, two if you count Cosmog and Cosmoem into the cover legendary, but as far as power levels are concerned, the former two are locked to "no power whatsoever", so there isn't actually any power progress to speak of. That's right, Bounsweet - Steenee - Tsareena is the only "atypical, three-stage evolutionary family" added in Gen VII. Hm, I'm going to use that term a lot further down in this post, so I'm going to need something better than "Atypical three-stage evolutionary family". What about ATEF, for short? Then the term "TEF" can be used for three-stage evolutionary families in general, and TTEF for the typical three-stage families: Starters, early-route birds, early-route bugs, and pseudo-legendaries.
With the nomenclature ready, now let's compare Gen VII to the other generations in terms of TEFs. Note that families with branched evolutions are counted only once:
Anyway, the numbers show that Gen VII is the first generation to introduce fewer than one TEF per 10 new Pokémon added. Or the first generation where fewer than 30 % of all Pokemon belong to a three-stage line, if you like. Moreover, it has the lowest number of ATEFs as mentioned above, with Gen VI trailing close behind (for the record: The single complete ATEF in Gen IV is Shinx - Luxio - Luxray, the two in Gen VI are the Flabébé and Honedge families).
How bad is Gen VII really when compared to the others, though? Disregarding Typical Three-stage Evolutionary Families (TTEFs) - starter Pokémon, early-game birds, early-game bugs and pseudo-legendaries - how widespread is three-stage evolution in Pokémon? Let's remove all TTEFs from the count and calculate the ratios again:
But it turns ugly in Gen VI. Remove the 18 Pokémon belonging to typical three-stage lines, and only one-ninth of all remaining Pokémon belong to one. This is bad from my perspective, and one of my main gripes with Gen VI.
Gen VII totally takes the cake, though: Gen VII has 81 Pokémon of which 18 belong to typical three-stage families. Of the remaining sixty-three, only three are in a TEF. One in twenty-one. Gen VI was bad, remember, but Gen VII is more than two times worse. The ratio of ATEFs has fallen by 82.5 % since Gen V. Instead, there is an unprecedented amount of single-stage and two-stage lines, and the concept of cross-generation evolution has been all but abandoned.
I like Abra and Poliwag and Hoppip and Lotad and Spheal and Tynamo and Sandile and all the other three-stage lines that aren't three-stage purely because of design conventions. Apparently, Game Freak has been overlooking those for the past few years. That makes me a little sad, but I guess I could always hope for Gen 8 to fill the void.
Backstory first: One of my favourite aspects of Pokémon gameplay is evolution. I really like seeing a Pokémon grow from humble beginnings into a hulking beast, or at least into a well-rounded, high-statted third stage 'mon with a wide movepool. The process of evolution represents a milestone in a team member's growth, with a great boost in power, a change of appearance, and often even a total change of playstyle.
I like seeing Pokémon evolve, and it's even better when they have three evolutionary stages. That way, you start out with a wimpy 'mon, have a middle stage period with adequate power, and then a final stage with its full power potential realized. Going straight from "no potential" to "full potential" feels a little rushed, and staying in the same form all the time is just boring.
You probably understand where I'm going with this: Gen VII has awfully few three-stage families. And it's even worse when you discount the typical lines. Apart from the mandatory starters, the early route bird, the early route bug, and the mandatory pseudo-legendary, can you guess how many three-stage families we get in Sun & Moon?
One.
Well, two if you count Cosmog and Cosmoem into the cover legendary, but as far as power levels are concerned, the former two are locked to "no power whatsoever", so there isn't actually any power progress to speak of. That's right, Bounsweet - Steenee - Tsareena is the only "atypical, three-stage evolutionary family" added in Gen VII. Hm, I'm going to use that term a lot further down in this post, so I'm going to need something better than "Atypical three-stage evolutionary family". What about ATEF, for short? Then the term "TEF" can be used for three-stage evolutionary families in general, and TTEF for the typical three-stage families: Starters, early-route birds, early-route bugs, and pseudo-legendaries.
With the nomenclature ready, now let's compare Gen VII to the other generations in terms of TEFs. Note that families with branched evolutions are counted only once:
- Gen I: 3x starters, 2x early bug, 1x early bird, 1x pseudo-legendary, 9x ATEFs, total 16 across 151 Pokémon. 151/16 = 9.44
- Gen II: 3x starters, 1x pseudo-legendary, 2x ATEFs, total 6 across 100 Pokémon - Plus 4 because of cross-generation evolutions. 100/10 = 10.00
- Gen III: 3x starters, 1x early bug, 2x pseudo-legendary, 8x ATEFs, total 14 across 135 Pokémon - plus 1 ATEF because of cross-generation evolutions. 135/15 = 9.00
- Gen IV: 3x starters, 1x early bird, 1x pseudo-legendary, 1x ATEFs, total 6 across 107 Pokémon - plus 10 ATEFs because of cross-generation evolutions. 107/16 = 6.69
- Gen V: 3x starters, 2x early bug, 1x early bird, 1x pseudo-legendary, 12x ATEFs, total 19 across 153 Pokémon. 133/19 = 8.05
- Gen VI: 3x starters, 1x early bug, 1x early bird, 1x pseudo-legendary, 2x ATEFs, total 8 across 72 Pokémon. 72/8 = 9.00
- Gen VII: 3x starters, 1x early bug, 1x early bird, 1x pseudo-legendary, 1x ATEF, total 7 across 81 Pokémon. 81/7 = 11.57
Anyway, the numbers show that Gen VII is the first generation to introduce fewer than one TEF per 10 new Pokémon added. Or the first generation where fewer than 30 % of all Pokemon belong to a three-stage line, if you like. Moreover, it has the lowest number of ATEFs as mentioned above, with Gen VI trailing close behind (for the record: The single complete ATEF in Gen IV is Shinx - Luxio - Luxray, the two in Gen VI are the Flabébé and Honedge families).
How bad is Gen VII really when compared to the others, though? Disregarding Typical Three-stage Evolutionary Families (TTEFs) - starter Pokémon, early-game birds, early-game bugs and pseudo-legendaries - how widespread is three-stage evolution in Pokémon? Let's remove all TTEFs from the count and calculate the ratios again:
- Gen I: 130 remaining Pokémon, 9 ATEFs: 130/9 = 14.44.
- Gen II: 88 remaining Pokémon, 6 ATEFs: 88/6 = 14.67.
- Gen III: 115 remaining Pokémon, 9 ATEFs: 115/8 = 12.78.
- Gen IV: 92 remaining Pokémon, 11 ATEFs: 92/11 = 8.36.
- Gen V: 132 remaining Pokémon, 12 ATEFs: 132/12 = 11.00
- Gen VI: 54 remaining Pokémon, 2 ATEFs: 54/2 = 27.00
- Gen VII: 63 remaining Pokémon, 1 ATEF: 63/1 = 63.00.
But it turns ugly in Gen VI. Remove the 18 Pokémon belonging to typical three-stage lines, and only one-ninth of all remaining Pokémon belong to one. This is bad from my perspective, and one of my main gripes with Gen VI.
Gen VII totally takes the cake, though: Gen VII has 81 Pokémon of which 18 belong to typical three-stage families. Of the remaining sixty-three, only three are in a TEF. One in twenty-one. Gen VI was bad, remember, but Gen VII is more than two times worse. The ratio of ATEFs has fallen by 82.5 % since Gen V. Instead, there is an unprecedented amount of single-stage and two-stage lines, and the concept of cross-generation evolution has been all but abandoned.
I like Abra and Poliwag and Hoppip and Lotad and Spheal and Tynamo and Sandile and all the other three-stage lines that aren't three-stage purely because of design conventions. Apparently, Game Freak has been overlooking those for the past few years. That makes me a little sad, but I guess I could always hope for Gen 8 to fill the void.
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I don't see why Galvanize would be created with the boost but the ates wouldn't
LORD NO. Stop this shiet GF
Aerialate is actually fucking dumb when you remember being forced to use Return on its own is already worth 20-30% due to a lot of typing being forced to use 80 BP for their stuff(not everything have Earthquake clone)
Like lets say Pinsir had a 80 Flying move before it Mega Evo, once it become M Pinsir it can use Return and the total power boost you get from Aerialate is 66%. Double Edge would close in to Huge Power boost
Like lets say Pinsir had a 80 Flying move before it Mega Evo, once it become M Pinsir it can use Return and the total power boost you get from Aerialate is 66%. Double Edge would close in to Huge Power boost
Gen VII also has a lot (and I really mean a lot) of one stage family and they made efforts in making them interresting in some way.
dwarfstar
mindless philosopher
No, this is not true as far as we know. They stayed the same
Like I said before, I cant help but feel like most of the Pokemon were made with the permanent VGC ladder in mind, which may explain the slow speeds. Stuff like Oranguru, Incineroar, Shiinotic, and Vikavolt totally lack appeal to me in singles, but sound like good things to test under doubles Trick Room to me!
No, this is wrong. even their ability descriptions mention the boost now (unknown if still 30%, but I don't think they lowered it).
https://projectpokemon.org/research/sunmoon/gametext.txt
(search for sth like "become fairy-type moves")
Too bad Liquid Voice doesn't get a boost regardless
Anyone know where to find the full list of version exclusives and new moves?
No coverage and trench tier stats even after a buff...Yeah lets not bother with this.
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