Metagross (QC 0/3)

[PISTOLERO]

Metagross

Aidin ily <3 - did I do good by Metagross?

Overview:
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• Generation VI brought Metagross mixed blessings. Extremely nasty Dark and Ghost weaknesses, but Fairy resistance and ability to hit for SE damage against them.
• Ability to check all kinds of Xerneas, whether Geomancy or other sets. Use if you need a way to kill all Xerneas fairly reliably (Keys can cripple but not KO on its own, SubGeo fucks with Aegis, Scizor loses to HP Fire, Bronzong is a huge momentum killer, and none of the above can do heavy damage to defensive Xern sets). Other Xern checks have utility, Metagross can check certain things. Really depends on your team tbh.
• Ability to check certain other Pokemon in the tier, e.g. Mega Mewtwo Y and certain Arceus, to an extent.
• Clear Body is useful if unispiring, negating Attack drops from Intimidate and Speed drops from Webs.
• Despises Will-O-Wisp, is irritated by Thunder Wave, immune to Toxic though ;)
• Invites very dangerous tier members such as Ho-Oh and Yveltal in, although it can catch them on the switch with SE moves somewhat.
• AV means that it can’t use SR or Toxic :/
• Not as scared by M-engar as you’d think, quite a lot of them don’t run Shadow Ball, and Metagross can survive thanks to its Vest and either KO with EQ or trap with Pursuit. Shadow Ball still hurts like a bitch though and weakens Metagross severely :/
• no boosting item means that Metagross doesn’t hit so hard, e.g. Ho-Oh can survive Rock Slide

Assault Vest
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Set Name: Deer Hunter

Move 1: Iron Head / Meteor Mash
Move 2: Bullet Punch
Move 3: Earthquake
Move 4: Rock Slide / Ice Punch / Pursuit
Item: Assault Vest
Nature: Adamant
EVs: 248 HP, 252 Attack, 8 SpDef (does this give even SpDef? even SpDef is better in terms of jump points)


Moves:
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• Meteor Mash is Metagross’s strongest move, and allows it to hit Fairy Types very hard. However, Iron Head hits almost as hard and doesn't have a nasty 10% chance of missing when you need to hit the most. Iron Head still 2HKOes Xerneas with Bullet Punch as well as generally being strong enough against other Iron Head targets, so it is the safer and therefore probably better option.
• Bullet Punch is useful priority, and allows Metagross to finish off weakened opponents.
• Earthquake hits Steel-Types, and allows Zekrom to do do meaningful damage to Pokemon such as Zekrom, Dialga and Heatran.
• Rock Slide catches Ho-Oh on the switch, Ice Punch catches Landorus-Therian and Gliscor, and Pursuit can put Mega Gengar and Deoxys-A in a nasty position if you predict right.

Set Details
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• Assault Vest gives Metagross the bulk it needs to take on Geomancy Xerneas. +2 sun-boosted HP Fire only has a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, whilst Metagross can KO any Xerneas spread with Meteor Mash followed by Bullet Punch - Meteor Mash alone has a 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock, and Bullet Punch deals between 36 and 43% (both these calculations are assuming 108HP / 28 Def Xerneas) - If you managed to heavily damage Xerneas on its setup turn, e.g with Palkia Hydro Pump or Yveltal Oblivion Wing, you can finish it off before it even claims a victim by switching Metagross in on a predicted Moonblast and Bullet Punching it. Both these moves can also come in handy against other Pokemon, e.g. Arceus-Fairy, weakened opponents etc.
• Earthquake allows Metagross to hit Zekrom, Dialga and Heatran for supereffective damage – it is better to try and catch them on the switch however. It can also hit certain Arceus Formes supereffectively, and allows Metagross to check Arceus-Electric if at high health, with Earthquake doing 55.6 - 65.6% to 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Electric, and 55.6 - 65.6% to 160 HP Arceus-Electric, whilst the Assault Vest allows Metagross to tank even 252 SpA Arceus-Electric's Judgment very nicely, with it only doing 37.1 - 43.8%, allowing Metagross to avoid the 2HKO after SR.
• Last move can be customised to deal with what you like. Rock Slide is nice to hit Ho-Oh on the switchin. Ice Punch hits Gliscor and Landorus-Therian, heavily damaging Landorus (75.3 - 89% against 252 HP/252 Def Impish, has a slim chance to OHKO after Rocks). Gliscor takes 64.4 - 76.8% as well - Metagross can also easily tank weak support Earthquakes from both (46.2 - 54.5% from Gliscor's EQ, 65 - 77.6% from Landorus-Therian's EQ). Pursuit helps you deal with Gengar – it can stay in and get EQed, or switch out and get Pursuited (Pursuit does 90.8 - 106.8% to Gengar if it switches) - watch out for Shadow Ball, Metagross can tank it but really doesn't appreciate it. Metagross can also Pursuit trap Deoxys-A, either Bullet Punching it or Pursuiting it – get your predictions right though, you don’t want to take a Knock Off or Dark Pulse. You can run Hammer Arm to hit Darkrai, doing 96 - 113.1%, whilst Metagross can tank a Dark Pulse nicely (does 53.4 - 63.3%) – if you do, you can also run a 30 speed IV so you can hit the (albeit rare) Skarmory as it Roosts.

Usage Tips
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• Switch in on Xerneas. If it Geomancies you can take any hit and 2HKO with Meteor Mash + Bullet Punch. Any other Xerneas set still take heavy damage from Meteor Mash - not even the bulkiest possible defensive 252/252+ Xerneas can escape the 2HKO from full health, even with Leftoverrs. Be careful of Xerneas chipping away and switching out – trying to predict what Xerneas will send out as it retreats is a good idea as you can catch switchins that think they are safe. Switching in on defensive Xern sets such as Resttalk and Aromaxern is great as it does nothing with Moonblast and means you can wreck it with Meteor Mash, or predict what gets sent and hit that instead. Hazards mean that each time Xern is forced out, it takes damage upon coming back in, pushing it closer and closer to the 2HKO range of moves such as Oblivion Wing and Hydro Pump from the things it is supposed to check.
• Certain Arceus Formes can be taken on with this Metagross. Watch out for Will-O-Wisp though as it cripples Metagross completely. CM Arceus-Electric, CM Arceus-Rock (no WoW), CM Arceus-Fairy (no WoW), even CM Arceus-Water (no WoW, need Thunderpunch. Does TPunch 2HKO? no it doesn't :/), CM Arceus-Steel (no WoW, watch for Fire Blast/Earth Power - Earthquake does on average 50%, so you don't give it a chance to Calm Mind at all if it has any prior damage).
• Careful when switching into certain threats – eg Metagross can switch into Psycho Boost/Psystrike all day due to its x4 resistance, but doesn’t want to take a Knock Off or Fire Blast on the switch. If it gets in safely, it can trap Deoxys-A, and can Meteor Mash+ Bullet Punch MMY, KOing it after SR, if at high health, whilst being able to tank Fire Blast nicely - you can even be a real man and Pursuit it if it switches out, dealing 74.7 - 88.3%, meaning that if SR is up, it might not even be able to come in again (obviously this theorizes SR damage on Mewtwo the first time it comes in).

Team Options
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• Defensive Fairy-Types. Sylveon gets bonus points as she can pass Wish. Fairies can take on Dragons that hit you for too much damage, and take on Dark-Types (Yveltal in particular). Xerneas can take Dark Void however if it is Resttalk. They can heal Metagross if it gets burned too.
• Palkia can blanket check all non-scarf Dragons due to it being the fastest out of all of them (Garchomp doesn’t count), can also take on Kyogre nicely, checks Ho-Oh, checks Groudon too. Yveltal can handle Ghostceus and Giras without too many problems, and can also Sucker Punch the shit out of Mewtwo if Metagross falls. Stocking up on priority users is nice too. Teammembers that like Metagross’s ability to manhandle all different Xerneas sets are nice too – the aforementioned Palkia and Yveltal love Metagross’s ability to scare offensive and SpDef Xern, as well as Fairyceus and Sylveon, as they can wreak havoc once their bulky Fairy-Type checks gone.

Other Options
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ThunderPunch, Hammer Arm, Zen Headbutt, Stealth Rock, Toxic, Hone Claws, Sludge Bomb, HP Fire, Grass Knot.

Band (I’m gonna play around with EVs for this, see if I can find a spread that works well in that it can 2HKO offensive Xern with BP whilst being able to take any one hit at +2. I also think that Trick is interesting on Band as when you look down the C&C list there are quite a few things that would seriously dislike Band – defensive Yveltal, Darkrai, Skarmory, Kyogre, certain Dragon-Types).

Scarf, Iron Ball+Trick, Agility, Shuca Berry

Light Metal over Clear Body means that Metagross can avoid 2HKO from MMX Low Kick, Clear Body is usually better tho as it stops Intimidate drops and other assorted stat drops.

They all suck tbh, AV is probably the only viable set

C&C
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• Yveltal (dislikes SE moves on switchin if offensive, defensive can take it all day)
• Ho-Oh (watch out for Rock Slide)
• Darkrai (watch out for Hammer Arm)
• Ghostceus, Darkceus, Groundceus
• Ekiller can set up (takes good damage from Hammer Arm tho)
• Skarmory
• WoW users
• Reshiram (scared of EQ/RS on switchin)
• Kyogre (TPunch on switchin, switching in weakens Spout, defensive Ogre dgaf and can Scald)
• Palkia doesn’t really fear too much, strongest move would be Zen Headbutt which does 45.9 - 54.3%, which to be fair is quite a lot
• Groudon, Landorus-T, Gliscor
• Giratina-O (Ice Punch/Mash is slightly annoying, Gira can take it tho)
• Zekrom (watch for EQ on switchin, Metagross can take a Strike and EQ back)
• Ray (watch out for RS/IPunch on switchin, can V-Create once in)

 

[PISTOLERO]

I know that Metagross is niche, but we've given loads of Pokemon analyses beore due to their ability to cockblock one major threat in the tier. Also, Metagross can provide some utility outside of Xerneas, + it has to be the best allround Xern check, as Aegis loses to defensive or Sub Xern, Scizor loses to HP Fire, Bronzong is such a momentum killer. Metagross can do some things, and i hope that QC lets this supercomputer through - I know it's goten worse this generation, and wasn't great last generation, but it still has a niche :)

p.s. this is also a placeholder to remind me to elaborate more on:

Sylveon

Keys

and other things

 

[Aidin]

This is the best uber analys ever written.

 

[PISTOLERO]

i'd like to know what opinions are on Iron Head. it kills most Xerneas as well as Meteor Mash does, except for full 252/252+ which it can miss out on.

Aidin stop being a pussy and use moves that miss instead of suggesting Iron Head

 

[Muk]

i'd like to know what opinions are on Iron Head. it kills most Xerneas as well as Meteor Mash does, except for full 252/252+ which it can miss out on.

Aidin stop being a pussy and use moves that miss instead of suggesting Iron Head

I would run Iron Head, because let's face it, Geomancy is by far the most popular+threatening variant and you don't want to screw yourself against it 10% of the time if it has the appropriate coverage. Metagross doesn't exactly struggle against 252/252+ Xerneas anyway. Still, it wouldn't hurt to check how well Iron Head does against things like Kyu-W/Rockceus/Fairyceus (or frailer things like Darkrai and MMY) in comparison to Meteor Mash.

 

[Aidin]

You see raph, someone agrees with me. I am not entirely stupid.

No but seriously:
252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Fairy: 254-300 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Fairy: 224-266 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Rock: 254-300 (57.2 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 144 Def Arceus-Rock: 224-266 (50.4 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 222-262 (62.8 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Metagross Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Mewtwo Y: 198-234 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 362-428 (79.7 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Metagross Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-W: 324-384 (71.3 - 84.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


252+ Atk Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 181-214 (64.4 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Metagross Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Darkrai: 162-192 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Because I have no life :P

 

[PISTOLERO]

Fair does, I'll slash Iron Head in then

Edit, done! Iron Head is now first slash as it is safer, Muk is right, I've missed too many Meteor Mashes at the critical moment :/

 

[Nayrz]

Mention Lando-T in checks and counters with Groudon under "Bulky Ground-types" to save cluttering C&C, Earth Plate sets can switch in easily without Metagross having Ice Punch and OHKO the next turn, while defensive sets take hits and 2HKO with Earthquake. In the same vein Gliscor can be added to that as well. It's probably worth mentioning what ability Metagross should be using - Clear Body is usually preferred to stop Lando-T intimidating you while also stopping random stat drops, but Light Metal can avoid you being 2HKOd by Mega Mewtwo X's Low Kick. Its an OO mention if nothing else.

 

[Hack]

QC rejected 1/3

Accepting niche checks to Xerneas in all honor, but this is taking it too far. Metagross has literally no niche over Aegislash, which completely outclasses it in all relevant areas except one, being able to beat SubGeoXern a little bit easier. People have to note that to actually beat an Aegislash with subXern you will need to win 2 or even 3 50-50s depending on if you are using HP Fire or Thunder. In the case of Thunder you also need to HIT all thunders, so the relevance in how Metagross checks Aegislash is hardly that big when compared to the following:

1. Metagross is much more burn prone due to two reasons: it can't Toxic, it can't recover health with Leftovers.
2. Since Metagross can't Toxic, it can't punish bulky switch ins as good, nor can it checks some CM Arceus like Electric (those simply set up on you).
3. Aegislash is a Ghost-type, making it a superior Pursuit-trapper since it can switch out of Gengar in case it needs to.
4. Speaking of Gengar, Aegislash isn't trappable either so it's much more solid stand alone answer to Xerneas.
5. King's shield makes Aegislash longevity higher, and it let's it scout for choiced attacks, such as CB Ho-oh or scarf Zekrom.
6. This also makes Aegislash have another niche in that it can force out choiced physical attackers like the aforementioned Zekrom by threatening with a KS.

Furthermore, Metagross will mandate a cleric if you are using it, otherwise every support Arceus will laugh at you, burn and then you are unable to check Xerneas with it. It goes without saying that support Arceus cannot do the same as easily to Aegislash as they fear Toxic a lot. Metagross literally faces all problems Aegislash does, has further disadvantages that I brought up, and does nothing it can do better.

 

[PISTOLERO]

QC rejected 1/3

Accepting niche checks to Xerneas in all honor, but this is taking it too far. Metagross has literally no niche over Aegislash, which completely outclasses it in all relevant areas except one, being able to beat SubGeoXern a little bit easier. People have to note that to actually beat an Aegislash with subXern you will need to win 2 or even 3 50-50s depending on if you are using HP Fire or Thunder. In the case of Thunder you also need to HIT all thunders, so the relevance in how Metagross checks Aegislash is hardly that big when compared to the following:

1. Metagross is much more burn prone due to two reasons: it can't Toxic, it can't recover health with Leftovers.
2. Since Metagross can't Toxic, it can't punish bulky switch ins as good, nor can it checks some CM Arceus like Electric (those simply set up on you).
3. Aegislash is a Ghost-type, making it a superior Pursuit-trapper since it can switch out of Gengar in case it needs to.
4. Speaking of Gengar, Aegislash isn't trappable either so it's much more solid stand alone answer to Xerneas.
5. King's shield makes Aegislash longevity higher, and it let's it scout for choiced attacks, such as CB Ho-oh or scarf Zekrom.
6. This also makes Aegislash have another niche in that it can force out choiced physical attackers like the aforementioned Zekrom by threatening with a KS.

Furthermore, Metagross will mandate a cleric if you are using it, otherwise every support Arceus will laugh at you, burn and then you are unable to check Xerneas with it. It goes without saying that support Arceus cannot do the same as easily to Aegislash as they fear Toxic a lot. Metagross literally faces all problems Aegislash does, has further disadvantages that I brought up, and does nothing it can do better.

Thanks Hack, i agree that Metagross is niche. However, it can take on all Xerneas variants whereas Aegis can't Gyro Ball defensive versions (Gyro Ball is what, like a 4HKO).... and it does have moves to hit certain switchins. Aegis is such a momentum killer on more offensive teams as well. I'm curious as to what other QC members think.

 

[Aidin]

Don't forget that metagross is actually capable of using its priority move. Everytime aegi kills something with shadown sneak, it is forced to kingshield or switch, grantin the opponent a shit ton of momentum.

Also, metagross is capable of pursuit trapping deoxys formes, which have been ranked A rank, if I am not mistaken. Aeiglslash, on the other hand, fails to ko deoxys-n on the switch out, as evidenced by the calc bellow:

4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Deoxys: 158-188 (65.5 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The cleric is often a big problem for teams. Sp def xerneas can for example take on darkrai, as it can make use of the move sleep talk.

 

[Nayrz]

Don't forget that metagross is actually capable of using its priority move. Everytime aegi kills something with shadown sneak, it is forced to kingshield or switch, grantin the opponent a shit ton of momentum.

Also, metagross is capable of pursuit trapping deoxys formes, which have been ranked A rank, if I am not mistaken. Aeiglslash, on the other hand, fails to ko deoxys-n on the switch out, as evidenced by the calc bellow:

4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Deoxys: 158-188 (65.5 - 78%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The cleric is often a big problem for teams. Sp def xerneas can for example take on darkrai, as it can make use of the move sleep talk.

Not being able to KO possibly the worst uber out there isn't really a problem and not worth basing an argument on, just putting that out there.

 

[Fireburn]

I agree with Hack.

QC Rejected 2/3

 

[PISTOLERO]

I agree with Hack.

QC Rejected 2/3

Thanks anyway Fireburn, I figured I'd try and see if Metagross could get through but you awful excuses for human beings just hate the awesome supercomputer too much i mean come on it has 4 awesome arms and a moustache and everything...

 

[Blue Jay]

QC rejected 3/3

That happened more quickly than expected.

 

[Fireburn]

I like Metagross too, it's just not good anymore... :'(