Pokémon Magnezone

[RoyalBlue]

Haven't been a thread on this guy yet so I guess I'll start it!

Although Magnezone hasn't exactly gained any new tricks up its sleeve (or magnet) with the release of X&Y, I feel Zone will have a really great time this generation with the introduction of Fairies and the Defog buff.

Magnezones steel typing is really strong and partners well against opposing Faries. Flash Cannons can really hurt Sylveon, Florges etc while its electric STAB can hit Togekiss and Azumarill (who are hyped to be OU this Gen). Also, with the popularity of Fairies, other Steel types will be used in order to counter them such as Ferrothorn and Scizor. This can allow Magnezone to work well as a Fairy check but also as a and fairy supporter.

As many of us know, Defog received a buff this gen which allows it to get rid of hazards on BOTH sides. With the introduction of Sticky Web, Defog might become super popular to counter both SW and SR. People have been discussing possible strong Defoggers and Scizor, Skarmory and Scizor have been mentioned quite a bit. Luckily for Zone, they're all Steel types. This might mean that Zone can be used as a pseudo-spinblocker on Stall teams or even balanced teams too. With the introduction of Fairies too, people now have even more reason to run the mentioned Defoggers.

The one thing I think people underestimate about Zone is its stats. It has a very solid 70/115/90 bulk and an incredible (at least last gen) 130 base Special Attack. Sure it slow, but why does it matter when the Pokemon you're trapping is even slower or can't even touch you?

So what do you guys think? Is this enough for Zone to be prominent this gen? Or are there drawbacks to Zone that will make it less popular/drop to UU?

 

[Celever]

Hidden power is only 60 power now:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 320-380 (90.9 - 107.95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 276-326 (84.4 - 99.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This means that it count do as well as a steel trapper as before, but it still destroys Scizor so that's good right??
I feel like Magnezone will be used in OU and just stay there adapting a sort of Metagross status of right now. "Should be UU but isn't".

 

[Hemp Man]

Hidden power is only 60 power now:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 320-380 (90.9 - 107.95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 224 HP / 32 SpD Skarmory: 276-326 (84.4 - 99.69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This means that it count do as well as a steel trapper as before, but it still destroys Scizor so that's good right??
I feel like Magnezone will be used in OU and just stay there adapting a sort of Metagross status of right now. "Should be UU but isn't".

Skarmory is weak to Thunderbolt, why would you use HP Fire?

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

Skarmory is weak to Thunderbolt, why would you use HP Fire?

To beat the Steels which aren't weak to Thunderbolt. Mainly Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor.

 

[>>><<<]

To beat the Steels which aren't weak to Thunderbolt. Mainly Ferrothorn, Forretress, and Scizor.

I think he means why use HP Fire in the calcs against Skarmory when you have Thunderbolt for that?

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

I think he means why use HP Fire in the calcs against Skarmory when you have Thunderbolt for that?

In giving him a benefit of a doubt, it was given probably to show the power of HP with the power drop. You're right though.

 

[dende5416]

Haven't been a thread on this guy yet so I guess I'll start it!

Old Pokemon without new typing or mega evolutions are only allowed in the oldmons thread and are not supposed to have their own thread.

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/old-mon-general-discussion.3490455/

:D

 

[McGrrr]

Hidden power is only 60 power now:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 320-380 (90.9 - 107.95%) -- 50% chance to OHKO

The vast majority of Ferrothorn are investing in maximum defense now:

252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 384-452 (109 - 128.4%)

I'd probably run 209 speed to get the jump on zero investment Rotom.

 

[alexwolf]

Magnezone is significant enough in OU to have its own thread. RoyalBlue add some possible sets and explanations about them in the OP, otherwise the thread will get locked.

 

[VCrowe]

This is the set I use on PS, and it works wonders.

Magnezone @ Choice scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

This set is basically the same set thats posted in the BW article for Magnezone, but it deserves special mention becuase it can trap the common Ferrothorn lead and OHKO all physical variants while 2HKOing all special variants. The speed investment allows him to outspeed a surprising buch and KO with the appropriate move. Togekiss, Azumarill, Scizor, Ferrothorn, Forretress and even Klefki (without Swagger, because confusion hax) will fall to this set easily.

RoyalBlue, I believe you should put this set in the OP :D

 

[RockStarFish]

This is the set I use on PS, and it works wonders.

Magnezone @ Choice scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power Fire
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon

One small adjustment I would make to this set would be dropping the Speed EVs to 244.

252+ Scarf Magnezone has 360 Speed, which is just barely outsped by 252+ Base 115s (361), such as Starmie, Ambipom and Mega Absol, and they all tend to run max speed investment. Dropping from 360 to 357 only misses out on outspeeding Swoobat and Serperior, neither of which are making it to OU anytime soon (and neither would want to stay in against a Magnezone anyways).

The next crucial Pokémon Magnezone should be outspeeding is 252+ Mega Lucario at 355 Speed, which Magnezone can trap and revenge-kill with HP Fire at < 62.5% HP. It also still lets Magnezone outspeed 252+ Tornadus-I (353), allowing it to OHKO with Thunderbolt, since none of its priority moves threaten Scarf Magnezone.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Its a good thing MGengar got banned, otherwise its role as a steel trapper would largely overshadowed. As it is, the more popular trapping moves (relative to last gen) like infestation will compete in the trapping department. I also worry that more fire types (Talonflame and Charizard) running around as well as EQ being more popular (if that was popular) due to Aegislash will hurt his longevity. BUT, there are also more steel types for it to counter and like mentioned in the OP, flash cannon is a powerful weapon against fairies and a decent STAB move. The ability to eliminate Klefki from play alone (immune to Twave, helped by rain, takes very little damage from foul play) is an amazing ability. I don't think Magnezone will have any trouble having OU usage, the only question is which set should I use?

 

[VCrowe]

One small adjustment I would make to this set would be dropping the Speed EVs to 244.

252+ Scarf Magnezone has 360 Speed, which is just barely outsped by 252+ Base 115s (361), such as Starmie, Ambipom and Mega Absol, and they all tend to run max speed investment. Dropping from 360 to 357 only misses out on outspeeding Swoobat and Serperior, neither of which are making it to OU anytime soon (and neither would want to stay in against a Magnezone anyways).

The next crucial Pokémon Magnezone should be outspeeding is 252+ Mega Lucario at 355 Speed, which Magnezone can trap and revenge-kill with HP Fire at < 62.5% HP. It also still lets Magnezone outspeed 252+ Tornadus-I (353), allowing it to OHKO with Thunderbolt, since none of its priority moves threaten Scarf Magnezone.

Hmm... This is all true. It really makes me wonder why the BW article has the 252 / 4 / 252 spread if theres nothing notable max speed will outspeed. But where would you put those extra EVs? HP or SDef?

 

[NoStatusPlz]

Problem is most steel types carry U turn or some other form of escape (forretress volt turn, skarmory whirlwinds you on the switch in, etc). the only things I can think of that are actually completely helpless is ferrothorn and...yea. so pretty much this thing is just a ferrothorn killer (assuming your opponent is even dumb enough to leave him in)

other popular steels like genesect and heatran can quick dispatch you with a fire move.

I tried using this thing on quite a few teams but it just isn't that useful against good people. amazing against idiots though

 

[ColtCababa]

I highly doubt Magnezone has even a hint of a chance of falling to UU. It's Steel-typing is a greater aspect for it in Gen VI, as it allows it to not only trap opposing Steels, but deal heavy damage to the new Fairy-types, which gives it an even greater boon for partnering with Dragon-types, and to a larger extent, DragMag cores.

 

[VCrowe]

Problem is most steel types carry U turn or some other form of escape (forretress volt turn, skarmory whirlwinds you on the switch in, etc). the only things I can think of that are actually completely helpless is ferrothorn and...yea. so pretty much this thing is just a ferrothorn killer (assuming your opponent is even dumb enough to leave him in)

other popular steels like genesect and heatran can quick dispatch you with a fire move.

I tried using this thing on quite a few teams but it just isn't that useful against good people. amazing against idiots though

Yeah, but Whirlwind has negative priority, so that Skarmory isn't getting rid of Mag without taking heavy damage.

Also, things like U-turn and Volt Switch are the very reason why the Scarf set is so beautiful, because it means you can outspeed and KO them before they switch.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Problem is most steel types carry U turn or some other form of escape (forretress volt turn, skarmory whirlwinds you on the switch in, etc). the only things I can think of that are actually completely helpless is ferrothorn and...yea. so pretty much this thing is just a ferrothorn killer (assuming your opponent is even dumb enough to leave him in)

other popular steels like genesect and heatran can quick dispatch you with a fire move.

I tried using this thing on quite a few teams but it just isn't that useful against good people. amazing against idiots though

If (and that's a big if) you can confirm he's not running sacred sword, Magnezone checks Aegislash, I've already talked about how he's as close to a klefki counter as you can get, eliminating ferrothorn's a big win, Magnezone outspeeds and OHKO's forretress with HP fire, Scarmary will take a lot of damage if it survives long enough to Whirlwind, Scizor's toast, and Metagross and Jirachi (immunity to Twave shuts Jirachi up some) haven't changed any, so they're still killable. So there's Genesect, Heatran, and Lucarion, I think the first list is much more relevant. His job isn't so much to actually kill things anyway, its to make the opponent afraid to use their steel types allowing your dragon easier set up or to extend its sweep.

 

[SansNickel]

I've been using the scarf set as mentioned and it works great. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing something (genesect kills it) just so you can come in and trap it. The reason to use the scarf set over anything else is because you can use it as a better revenge killer but most importantly non-choiced genesect/scizor can't u-turn out before you hp-fire. This guy also helps with a clefable sweep.

 

[RockStarFish]

I've been using the scarf set as mentioned and it works great. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing something (genesect kills it) just so you can come in and trap it. The reason to use the scarf set over anything else is because you can use it as a better revenge killer but most importantly non-choiced genesect/scizor can't u-turn out before you hp-fire. This guy also helps with a clefable sweep.

There's a surprising amount of Steel-types that Scarf Magnezone can dispose of.

Skarmory, Scizor, Forretress and Ferrothorn are all OHKOed (provided Sturdy's broken on Skarm and Tress) by either Thunderbolt or HP Fire.

Mega Mawile that lack Brick Break are 2HKOed by Thunderbolt and can't OHKO Magnezone before that happens. Klefki without Swagger are helpless; they can only set up Light Screen to delay Magnezone. Non-Choice Magnezone are usually 2HKOed by HP Fire.

Lucario (regular and Mega) and Excadrill can both be revenge-killed, from 70% (Thunderbolt) and 50% (HP Fire) respectively. Aegislash have to use King's Shield to avoid being revenge-killed by Thunderbolt (78.7% minimum to 252/0 Blade Forme). Mega Aggron that lack Earthquake (albeit rare) can't do anything to Magnezone and are 2HKOed by Thunderbolt.

Stall-based Steel-type like Registeel, Probopass and annoyer Jirachi are all cleaned up Magnezone thanks to its immunity to Poison and Paralysis.

 

[NoStatusPlz]

Yeah, but Whirlwind has negative priority, so that Skarmory isn't getting rid of Mag without taking heavy damage.

Also, things like U-turn and Volt Switch are the very reason why the Scarf set is so beautiful, because it means you can outspeed and KO them before they switch.

I think you misunderstood my post. Good players know you are bringing in magnezone on their utility steel, meaning you switch in magnezone, and they are volt switching/u-turning/whirlwinding you right out, accomplishing nothing on your part. Then it's all mind games from there so he isn't really a definitive counter to anything.

To the other guy talking about the klefki/etc counter I don't think anybody in their right mind is leaving klefki in or whatever if magnezone is still up. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse so he doesn't do his job particularly well against good players, only bads.

 

[Punchshroom]

I think you misunderstood my post. Good players know you are bringing in magnezone on their utility steel, meaning you switch in magnezone, and they are volt switching/u-turning/whirlwinding you right out, accomplishing nothing on your part. Then it's all mind games from there so he isn't really a definitive counter to anything.

To the other guy talking about the klefki/etc counter I don't think anybody in their right mind is leaving klefki in or whatever if magnezone is still up. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse so he doesn't do his job particularly well against good players, only bads.

The fact that Magnezone's presence forces these Steels to be on their toes is reason enough for its viability. Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress and Klefki would be more focused on the Magnezone switch-in than just laying down hazards wantonly in every other scenario, while CB Scizor knows that using Bullet Punch / Pursuit to KO its target is a death sentence. The same also applies to any Choiced Genesect not using U-Turn or Flamethrower before Magnezone comes in, while Scarf Magnezone preys upon weakened Heatran, Genesect and even Excadrill. If Magnezone does not dispatch of these Steels, it can at least limit what they can do in a match.

 

[SansNickel]

It's actually just a little bit saddening for me that mega gengar was banned (it was actually way too good though, so i'm not too sad). I used to use the magnezone/tyranitar/mega gengar core to facilitate a clefable sweep. All three had trapping capabilities (magnet pull, pursuit, shadow tag).

Have you guys considered a sub/charge beam set?

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I think you misunderstood my post. Good players know you are bringing in magnezone on their utility steel, meaning you switch in magnezone, and they are volt switching/u-turning/whirlwinding you right out, accomplishing nothing on your part. Then it's all mind games from there so he isn't really a definitive counter to anything.

To the other guy talking about the klefki/etc counter I don't think anybody in their right mind is leaving klefki in or whatever if magnezone is still up. Then it becomes a game of cat and mouse so he doesn't do his job particularly well against good players, only bads.

Read this:

His job isn't so much to actually kill things anyway, its to make the opponent afraid to use their steel types allowing your dragon easier set up or to extend its sweep.

It might just be me, but its these messed up mind games where each player tries to outsmart and out think their opponent that makes the game fun. Just by showing Magnezone in team preview, you've made it impossible for them to use Klefki, one of the most annoying pokemon to ever exist. Since most Skarmories I've seen have been used as a lead, I'd never expect them to use whirlwind because I have a magnezone when that risks me getting off my hazard or weather or whatever my lead wants to do. Yes good players know how to handle magnezone, but I think you're giving them too much credit when you say that they'd predict the switch as easily as you say.

 

[NoStatusPlz]

I just don't see the value in a 1 for trade to be honest.

AT BEST ok you trap their klefki or whatever and kill him great. then all of a sudden the millions of sweepers that can OHKO magnezone easily come in, and you can't risk giving a free turn of setup by switching, so you have to keep magnezone in to just die. you eliminated klefki, they eliminated magnezone. you didn't really gain anything.

AT WORST your opponent does not even have a steel utility type and only has things like excadrill/aegislash or even the ever common genesect/heatran that can easy take it 1v1 and you play a 5v6 game. That is why I do not feel that magnezone deserves a spot on a team after using him quite a bit, he's just dead weight sometimes which you never want.

 

[Pipotchi]

So there are only 3 new steel additions (ignoring honedge): Klefki, Doublade, Aegislash.
However there are also quite a few new steel type mega evolutions: Aggron, Lucario, Mawile, and Scizor.

Magnezone can't be paralyzed by Klefki's priority t-wave (as mentioned before) and will always be able to kill off pure support sets. However with priority screens + spikes klefki should be able to get at least 2 spikes down before dying, which is a bit unfortunate. Magnezone also cant trap Doublade or Aegislash at all due to them being ghost type.

Specs Magnezone struggles to ohko anything from the list of megas without hazards, only mega scizor and lucario fear being killed in one turn. In return, he can be easily ohkod by earthquake from mega aggron, close combat from mega lucario, and is 2hkod by sucker punch from mawile after losing its dark resistance. I feel magnezone really didnt gain anything this gen regarding new steels to trap.. however it still has all of the old steel types it previously could beat, and less rain means a stronger hp fire. Similarly having good matchups vs fairies, steels and dragons (perhaps the 3 most important types this gen?) puts it in a good position.
He definitely feels like he's losing his touch though, with 5 new steels who can deal with him. Plus Klefki still gets spikes and a shield down before dying, and mega scizor can outspeed anything not scarfed and u-turn away. I hope someone can find some way that magnezone has improved because he was one of my favourites :(