Lileep** [QC 2/3]

[Al_Alchemist]

I stamped it myself, that's how we did it back in the day, do we still do that.

Overview
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-Has access to Stealth Rock, more important in this generation than ever what with Sturdy + Berry Juice and Murkrow, Fletchling, Larvesta, SR weak Pokemon etc., turning 2HKOs to OHKOs
-Can wall special attackers that don't have a set up move, ie Abra, Chinchou, Misdreavus (if it lacks Nasty Plot/Taunt), Staryu, Gastly, Ponyta
-Walls most if not all the Chlorophyll Sweepers and can at least 2HKO them back with HP Fire
-Can Wall physical attackers that don't set up and lack a super effective move on it, even some that do, ie Carvanha, Ponyta, Murkrow (LO BB does 50% to it though so you can't switch in but you can recover stall), Fletchling, etc.
-Weak to Steel and Fighting-Type moves, so Meditite, Mienfoo, Timburr, Pawniard, Magnemite which of whom are very common :/
-Is set up bait to Misdreavus and other Pokemon
-Sandstorm nerf hurt its passive damage and special defense boost while walling abilities.


Tank
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name: Tank
move 1: Stealth Rock
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Recover
move 4: Hidden Power Fire / Ancient Power / Toxic
ability: Storm Drain
item: Eviolite
evs: 228 HP / 140 Def / 140 SpD
nature: Bold / Calm

Moves
========

-Stealth Rock is an important hazard move and Lileep is one of the few walls with a recovery move that get it
-Giga Drain is STAB and recovers HP, as well as threatening Staryu and Drilbur, 2 of the most common Rapid Spin users, for SE damage
-Recover for longevity
-Hidden Power Fire is a good coverage move and hits Foongus, Ferroseed, Chlorophyll sweepers, and hurts Pawniard and Magnemite
-Ancient Power is STAB with a fun 10% chance as well as hitting most Defog users (Vullaby), Murkrow, Larvesta, and Fletchling for SE damage
-Toxic wears down walls it would be otherwise unable to harm
-Earth Power and Hidden Power Fighting could be cool for Fire- or Steel-Type coverage, namely Magnemite and Pawniard, but offer less coverage on other important Pokemon and often won't OHKO Magnemite or Eviolite Pawniard back

Set Details
========

-EVs grant maximum defense, Bold is if you want Murkrow to do about 50% or less to you, Calm is if you want to take on Special attackers a bit better, the max HP helps you survive certain 2HKOs you otherwise wouldn't be able to at full HP

Usage Tips
========

-Use sparingly, Stealth Rock is Lileep's main purpose, the second is to wall or pivot against Pokemon that other Pokemon usually can't, namely Foongus, Abra, Staryu, Chinchou, Ponyta, Special Attackers, and etc.
-It can often be the weakest link on a team, despite having great niches, sometimes it is better to just use Stealth Rock and then sacrafice it to get in another Pokemon safely

Team Options
========

-Slowpoke and Ponyta/Mienfoo/Timburr make a great pivot core, being able to switch in on most Pokemon in the metagame
-Use it with Pokemon who hate the Pokemon that Lileep walls/pivots into and/or appreciate Stealth Rock
-It likes things that can take on Steel- or Fighting-Types. Mienfoo and Timburr can easily take on Pawniard, Magnemite, and Ferroseed; whilst a Murkrow, Larvesta, or Vullaby can help switch into Fighting-Types and also still take on Pawniard. Lileep has the added bonus of being able to take on powerful Sunny Day boosted Fire-Type attacks from most variants of Ponyta, so it doesn't mind if your Larvesta's or Ponyta's Sunny Day could boost your opponent's Fire-Type attacks.


Other Options
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-Amnesia, Barrier, Stockpile, Curse, Swords Dance are alright, but it really doesn't help you beat most of Lileep's common checks or counters and you end up wasting a turn you could have used Stealth Rock on
-Mirror Coat could be a fun surprise, but is too situational
-Rock Slide and Bullet Seed are alright if you want to use physical-type moves, but Giga Drain's recovery is superior
-Hidden Power Rock is an option as this allows it to not be PP Stalled by SubRoost Murkrow.


Checks & Counters
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-Meditite, Mienfoo, and Timburr all threaten it with an SE STAB Fighting-Type move and the latter two can use Knock Off if they predict a switch
-Pawniard and Magnemite both resist Giga Drain, Ancient Power, and Toxic, and have a SE STAB Steel-Type move that they can 2HKO Lileep with, but watch out for Hidden Power Fighting and Earth Power respectively
-Misdreavus with Nasty Plot/Taunt can beat it one on one
-Fletchling can set up on it if it lacks Ancient Power and beat it one on one
-Calm Mind Spritzee can set up on it and beat it one on one, but hates Toxic

 

[athleteandy1]

In the overview, you say that it can beat Missy but list it as a counter. Either remove it from the overview or state that lileep wins if Missy lacks Nasty Plot or Taunt (rare, but it happens).
Edit: Actually, just remove Missy from that part of the overview entirely.

In the set, you're treating the mon like trash!

-It can often be the weakest link on a team, despite having great niches, sometimes it is better to just use Stealth Rock and then sacrafice it to get in another Pokemon safely

This is definitely not a suicide poke. With all EVs in defenses and HP, you couldn't really sac this thing even if you wanted to. It's not frail, and it has a wonderful recovery move; it's not something to just be sacrificed.

-Use it with Pokemon who hate the Pokemon that Lileep walls/pivots into and/or appreciate Stealth Rock

I'd go into a little more detail. Which mons specifically counter Lileep's counters? (One of the answers is Pawniard to beat Missy, Fletchling, and Spritzee. Also, Fletchling beats Fighting types. You do the rest.)

 

[Al_Alchemist]

In the overview, you say that it can beat Missy but list it as a counter. Either remove it from the overview or state that lileep wins if Missy lacks Nasty Plot or Taunt (rare, but it happens).
Edit: Actually, just remove Missy from that part of the overview entirely.

Noted, defensive Misdreavus with Will-O-Wisp and/or Substitute or Choice Specs (if you can avoid Trick) isn't uncommon. The reason I mention Misdreavus is because very few things can actually switch into Misdreavus besides the likes of Porygon, Munchlax (still has to worry about WoW), and etc. and if you're using Lileep chances are you aren't using those Fighting-Type weak Pokemon yourself. Therefore, Lileep having its large amount of Special Defense may be your only or safest answer to Misdreavus, even if it has Nasty Plot, so you wear it down with Giga Drain (or pivot to something that can check it), then revenge with a priority move like Meditite's Bullet Punch or with Murkrow. This all sounds somewhat situational as I write it though, I went ahead and made some clarifications, but I would like your response and/or other QC members' responses on the changes.

In the set, you're treating the mon like trash!
This is definitely not a suicide poke. With all EVs in defenses and HP, you couldn't really sac this thing even if you wanted to. It's not frail, and it has a wonderful recovery move; it's not something to just be sacrificed.

Perhaps it was a bit cruel, but i did use the word "sometimes." In my experience with Lileep it is absolutely fantastic switching in on key Pokemon that are unable to 2HKO it in order to set up Stealth Rock, even stuff like Chinchou's Ice Beam fails to 2HKO it (although it'd probably just Volt Switch on a predicted Lileep switch in). Lileep's main priorities I feel, is first to get up Stealth Rock, or if your opponent's team has noticeable difficulty getting around Lileep, has key Pokemon you need Lileep to check/counter/weaken, or just doesn't mind Stealth Rock, then you keep it alive. However, sadly that is sometimes not the case, what with plenty of Magnemites, Pawniards, Mienfoo, Meditite, Timburr, and etc. running around and filling up teams, you can find it is often the weakest link and serves better to tank a hit that may kill it, in order to safely bring another Pokemon in who just so happens to be more qualified against another team.

I'd go into a little more detail. Which mons specifically counter Lileep's counters? (One of the answers is Pawniard to beat Missy, Fletchling, and Spritzee. Also, Fletchling beats Fighting types. You do the rest.)

I agree, I rushed that section a bit because I felt a bit repetitive. I'll edit that in though, thanks for your input!

edit: Made some other changes, thanks Corkscrew and athleteandy1.

 

[macle]

good job 1/3

 

[DTC]

[Overview]

"Grass-Type is immune to Sleep Powder, Spore, and Stun Spore"

• Obvious - remove this

"Can Toxic stall some walls that most Pokemon can't get through, ie Calm Mind Spritzee"

• Too specific for an Overview
• Mention that it checks Carvanha well (where you give examples of physical attackers Lileep walls)

not much else to say here... good job Al, cork, and atheleteandy.

qc 2/3

 

[Goddess Briyella]

Glad to see this already made it from the QC project onto the forums. Awesome.

 

[Goddess Briyella]

This analysis has been reassigned and the new writer has made a new thread for it, so I'll be locking this one.