Kyurem [QC Approved 2/3] [QC Rejected 2/3]

CyclicCompound

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Kyurem
|BW2 Analysis||Serebii|
QC: [Jukain][][]
GP: [][]


Overview
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• Very bulky compared to other attackers, can set up 101 HP Substitutes
• Can differentiate itself from Kyurem-B with a higher base 130 Special Attack stat
• Possesses the strongest Ice Beam in the tier
• Pressure can come in handy against low-PP moves such as Stone Edge and Gyro Ball
• Usable (but not great) base 95 Speed
• Typing is a double-edged sword: great STABs and handy resistances, but has weaknesses to commonly seen Fighting-, Steel-, Rock-, Dragon-, and Fairy-type movess
• Faces extreme competition from Kyurem-B, who is much more flexible and versatile, gains much better coverage, and has better all-around stats.
• Requires hazard removal to function well
• Very bland movepool, can't do much more than SubRoost.


SubRoost
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name: SubRoost
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Roost
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Earth Power
ability: Pressure
item: Leftovers
nature: Modest
evs: 56 HP / 200 SpA / 252 Spe

Moves
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• Substitute protects from status and greatly eases prediction between Ice Beam and Earth Power.
• Roost allows Kyurem to stay healthy, continue making substitutes, and even wall some defensive Pokemon
• STAB Ice Beam provides a powerful attack and good super effective coverage
• Earth Power is basically mandatory as it gets a heavy hit on Ice resists like Heatran and provides extremely great coverage together with Ice Beam.

Set Details
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• 56 HP EVs to lessen Stealth Rock damage and create 101 HP substitutes.
• Max speed to tie with neutral-natured Kyurem-B.
• A Modest nature adds further to Kyurem's power.
• Leftovers is necessary to slowly replenish Kyurem's health after making a substitute and lessen the need to use Roost.

Usage Tips
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• Kyurem should be sent out against Pokemon that cannot hurt it much, such as Rotom-W, or Pokemon that are severely threatened by Kyurem's attacks, such as Gliscor.
• Kyurem should set up a substitute whenever possible, as it limits the number of ways the opponent can deal with Kyurem.
• However, keep in mind Kyurem cannot muscle past its hard counters such as Calm Mind Suicune, making Substitute a bad choice if they are likely to switch in.
• If an attacker with a low-PP move such as Stone Edge or Close Combat switches in, it may be a good idea to stay in and use Substitute a few times depending on the situation.
• Kyurem's health should not be squandered for PP stalling unless Kyurem or a teammate will truly be in a better position because of it.

Team Options
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• Strong physical attackers like Mega Pinsir and Garchomp to take care of special walls.
• Defog/Rapid Spin users are mandatory, Kyurem has particularly good synergy with Skarmory and Mandibuzz.
• Because Kyurem is powerful but slow compared to other offensive Pokemon, Sticky Web support is helpful but not necessary.
• Kyurem has a bad matchup towards faster offensive teams, so teammates that do not struggle against them are mandatory.
• Kyurem is particularly good against stall teams, so teammates that struggle against stall will appreciate Kyurem.
• Toxic Spikes support is actually very helpful as the majority of Kyurem's switch-ins are grounded.


Other Options
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• Dragon Pulse is an option, but it is redundant with Kyurem's other attacks. The only notable target it hits, Rotom-W, is easily stalled out.
• Glaciate is cool for lowering speed, but most of the time Kyurem would rather have the raw power of Ice Beam.
• Blizzard is a great option if Hail support is provided, as Kyurem is arguably the best Hail attacker.
• Focus Blast to hit Tyranitar and Scizor harder, although it leaves Kyurem completely open to Aegislash.
• Choice Specs is an option, especially in hail, but requires heavy support from teammates due to the amount of switching involved.
• Just about every other possible set (Choice Scarf/Band, mixed, etc.) is done better by Kyurem-B.


Checks & Counters
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• Faster attackers such as Charizard X/Y with super effective or powerful moves can easily overwhelm Kyurem and prevent it from setting up a sub.
• Scizor, Tyranitar, Azumarill, AV Conk, AV Exca, and other bulky attackers with super effective moves can easily take a hit and hit back hard.
• Special walls stop Kyurem cold.
• Bulky setup sweepers, esp. Water-types (QD Volcarona, CroCune, Manaphy, Mega Gyarados)
• Sylveon/Mega Gardevoir with Pixilate Hyper Voice or Infiltrator Noivern (goes through sub)
• SubDisable Gengar
 
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Kyurem has a bad matchup towards faster offensive teams, so teammates that do not struggle against them are mandatory.
Like?
Kyurem is particularly good against stall teams, so teammates that struggle against stall will appreciate Kyurem.
Same.

Mention Flash Cannon and Dragon Tail in OO and then explain why they're not as good. You can mention Toxic in either Moves or OO, but it's worth a mention.

I trust you to give specifics for those two examples of teammates.

Stamp.gif


QC 2/3
 

Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
This thhing doesnt really do anything that kyube doesnt. It's 5% stronger but has no mold breaker, fusion bolt, 170 atk, and pressure stalls out almost nothing notable.

qc reject 1/3
 
yeah we talked about this on irc. marginal benefits over kyurem-b don't give it much that it can do without being outclassed.

Rejected 3/3 gj on the writing tho CC
 

CyclicCompound

is a bicycle person thing
is a Contributor Alumnus
With the implementation of the new QC stamp/rejection rules, Ash Borer's rejection is considered to be in effect; Spirit and TRC's, however, must wait for the 24-hour cooldown following a rejection or stamp.

Kyurem's main problem, from what I can tell, is that some users believe it's outclassed by Substitute Attacker Kyurem-B. The main arguments for using Substitute Attacker Kyurem-B over Kyurem are as follows:
  • Kyurem-B has Fusion Bolt.
  • Through Fusion Bolt, Kyurem-B can go mixed much more easily.
  • Teravolt Earth Power (however, the most common target is Rotom-W, who Kyurem beats easily anyway).
  • Teravolt Ice Beam to get past Mega Venusaur.
  • Kyurem-B is marginally bulkier on the physical side (note, however, that this point is largely null because Kyurem-B is forced to run a defense-lowering nature. Kyurem is not.)
Reasons to use Kyurem over Substitute Attacker Kyurem-B:
  • Kyurem is marginally stronger (roughly 10%).
  • Pressure and Roost allows Kyurem to stall certain threats out (somewhat situational, but useful against Tyranitar, Megazard Y, etc). Can also discourage Rotom-W and Greninja from spamming Hydro Pump, but this is more debatable.
That's really all I could find between the two. And to be honest, I'm not all that sure what to make of it. Kyurem feels like a more durable and resilient attacker due to Roost, and the slight power boost is also nice, but Fusion Bolt definitely has its uses. Overall, I'm on the fence about its viability, but I'm leaning towards saying it's viable.
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Part of what I would like to be taken into consideration is that Kyube is far less predictable than Kyurem so even as a sub roost 2 attacks pokemon Kyurem-B's marginal power drop isn't as valuable as the threat of a 170 attack fusion bolt or outrage! Plus Teravolt also lets it more efficiently damage damage Mamoswine and Mega Venu.
 
I would really like to know, that what pokes is kyurem capable of stalling out, that kyub cant handle? The only one that comes to mind is ferrothorn and maybe tyranitar
 

CyclicCompound

is a bicycle person thing
is a Contributor Alumnus
Machamp, though rare, is another one. There are quite a few Pokemon that Kyurem handles moderately well thanks to Pressure (e.g. Mega Charizard Y), but there isn't really anything other than Tyranitar, Ferrothorn, and Machamp that Kyurem handles better than Kyurem-B, which is one of the reasons that Kyurem's viability is being thrown into question. Another problem is that PP stalling isn't really ever that necessary when Kyurem has such a nice Special Attack and coverage—most of the time you'd rather be attacking.
 

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