National Dex Got unto ladder with this team but still need changes (reposted from National Dex)

Before I show the team I just wanted to express how happy I am that I finally got onto AG top 500. I started playing in gen7 and then stopped for a few months and just recently got into it.
(Here is proof if you need it):

This is a pretty defensive team. Its main purpose is to make the opponent switch out and then punish them or force them to set up a strong pokemon in order to break through and then sweep them with ditto (sounds stupid but it works).

Ho-Oh:


Ho-Oh is the team's defogger as well as a defensive check to annoying mons like ferrothorn. Originally Ho-Oh intended to be a check to Zacian but since most Zacians run Wild-Charge it wasn't really an option. I like to use Ho-Oh to tank hits from spa attackers as its really tanky. Now for the moves: Defog - pretty self-explanatory. Sacred Fire- This is Ho-Oh's main attacking move. Earthquake - used to pressure Groudon (unless it has stone edge). Recover -
self-explanatory (you can also use roost).
Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake
- Defog
- Recover

Kyogre:

Choice Scarf Kyogre is the MVP of the team. He probably won me 70% of my games. He can one-shot a lot of squishy mons like Zacian-Crowned, Xerneas and Yveltal and 2HKO pretty much everything else. Dynamaxing Kyogre allows it to survive for even longer and allows it to do a lot more damage. Now as for the moves Water Sprout - This is the move you use almost 80% of the time as it 1HKO a lot of mons unless you have taken heavy damage. Ice Beam - is used to take out Zygarde and 2HKO Mega Rayquaza. Thunder is used primarily against other Kyogres, other water types and flying types. Origin Pulse - only used if you are at low HP.
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse

Chancey:

Chansey is in a weird spot for me as it doesn't serve a concrete purpose on my team. What I meant by that is that it has a lot of purposes. First, it's used to soak up toxics from annoying mons like Ho-Oh and then set up rocks. If I have a chance I try to get a toxic off as well. Its wish is used to switch into a Kyogre and then deal a ton of damage with a full Water Spout. I haven't had a lot of success with Heal Bell as I barely get a chance to use it that's why wish-protect combo can be used or you can just use Soft-Boiled.
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Heal Bell/Protect/Soft Boiled
- Toxic
- Wish

Primal-Groudon:

Groudon is really good at punishing mons when they switch. Harsh sunlight allows it to soak up any water move. It can also duel Groudon's very well (if its rock polished) and can bait the opponent to switch into ditto so you can switch into Ho-Oh. It 2HKO pretty much everything with its Preciple Blades and the FIre-Blast boosted by the Harsh sunlight does a lot of damage. Now HP-ice is, in my opinion, a very underrated move as it allows Groudon to 2HKO mons like Zygarde and Rayquaza.
Groudon @ Red Orb
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 100 SpD / 156 Spe
Mild Nature
- Rock Polish
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Ditto:

Ditto is pretty self-explanatory, "Ditto see very boosted pokemon, Ditto switch in".
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Transform

Arceus{Steel}:


Now, this is a very unconventional smeargle and is still a work in progress but so far it's amazing. As you probably noticed I am running a choice scarf instead of focus sash and the reason for that is because I have Trick. When your opponent sees a smeargle they are instantly going to play their Taunt pokemon (for example Yveltal). But then you catch them off guard by playing choice scarf. Even though you won't be able to use Stealth Rock or Spore you can nuzzle the next pokemon they switch in to. Worst case scenario they switch into a ground type like Groudon and you won't make it paralyzed. After smeargle serves its initial purpose of crippling a pokemon and (hopefully) paralyzing another he can be used to tank a Z or Dynamax move. Smeargle also counters other smeargles.
Smeargle @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Trick
- Nuzzle
- Spore
- Stealth Rock

Pokypaste Link:
https://pokepast.es/e4bf417c09683c82

Team Weaknesses:
-Excessive Deoxys(focus sash) team, really hard to deal with if rocks aren't set up
-Batton-Pass teams can be very annoying.
-Scarf Heavy teams as my team isn't very fast

Help That I need:
-A pokemon to replace chance or a better set
-Any other tips are welcome
 
Last edited:
:ss/zacian-crowned:
The first thing that immediately came to mind was that you have no switchin to this sword wielding dog. Ho-oh is 2hkoed by behemoth blade into wild charge, so cant switch in, and close combat deals heavy damage to the non defensive groudon.

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 109-129 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 175-206 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I also noticed that choice band or mixed yveltal :yveltal: answers, knock off destroys chansey which would normally be an ok yveltal switchin and rock slide obliterated specially defensive ho-oh.

Substitute dragon dance zygarde is again, a massive threat to this team. The only counterplay you have is hope to trick in a choice scarf before it manages to sub up, which is very unlikely.

Protect allows you to scout the yveltal set and stall out the dynamax turns more easily. Recover isn’t really needed as regenerator will be fine for recovery, so added toxic in its place, to punish common switchins.
:ho-oh:
Ho-oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Defog
- Toxic
- Protect

I decided to make kyogre into a choice specs set, you will find that this has an easier time beating common balance
:kyogre:
Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Goggles haze zygarde will help you with your inability to deal with baton pads and smeargle in general
:zygarde-complete:
Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Glare
- Haze
- Rest

:groudon-primal:
One of the best zacian switchins, being able to take several hits then ohko back with its super effective STABs, also a good stealth rocker.
Groudon-Primal
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Blast
- Rest

The most reliable geoxern check and all round great defensive Pokemon.
:necrozma-dusk-mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ability: Prism Armour
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 96 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Knock Off

Zacian is opted for over ditto for speed control, whilst also providing a mor
:zacian-crowned:
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Substitute

Arceus ground can easily dispose of the primal groudon that kyogre has trouble with, and is able to reliably beat dragon dance zygarde.
:arceus-ground:
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature
- Judgement
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh
 
Last edited:
:ss/zacian-crowned:
The first thing that immediately came to mind was that you have no switchin to this sword wielding dog. Ho-oh is 2hkoed by behemoth blade into wild charge, so cant switch in, and close combat deals heavy damage to the non defensive groudon.

+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade (100 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 109-129 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 92.4% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Groudon-Primal: 175-206 (51.3 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


I also noticed that choice band or mixed yveltal :yveltal: answers, knock off destroys chansey which would normally be an ok yveltal switchin and rock slide obliterated specially defensive ho-oh.

Substitute dragon dance zygarde is again, a massive threat to this team. The only counterplay you have is hope to trick in a choice scarf before it manages to sub up, which is very unlikely.

Protect allows you to scout the yveltal set and stall out the dynamax turns more easily. Recover isn’t really needed as regenerator will be fine for recovery, so added toxic in its place, to punish common switchins.
:ho-oh:
Ho-oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Defog
- Toxic
- Protect

I decided to make kyogre into a choice specs set, you will find that this has an easier time beating common balance
:kyogre:
Kyogre @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Thunder

Goggles haze zygarde will help you with your inability to deal with baton pads and smeargle in general
:zygarde-complete:
Zygarde-Complete @ Safety Goggles
Ability: Power Construct
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Glare
- Haze
- Rest

:groudon-primal:
One of the best zacian switchins, being able to take several hits then ohko back with its super effective STABs, also a good stealth rocker.
Groudon-Primal
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Precipice Blades
- Fire Blast
- Rest

The most reliable geoxern check and all round great defensive Pokemon.
:necrozma-dusk-mane:
Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
Ability: Prism Armour
EVs: 248 HP / 144 Def / 96 SpD
Careful Nature
- Sunsteel Strike
- Moonlight
- Toxic
- Knock Off

Zacian is opted for over ditto for speed control, whilst also providing a mor
:zacian-crowned:
Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Close Combat
- Wild Charge
- Substitute

Arceus ground can easily dispose of the primal groudon that kyogre has trouble with, and is able to reliably beat dragon dance zygarde.
:arceus-ground:
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 248 HP / 244 Def / 16 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature
- Judgement
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Refresh
Wow this looks really good! I will definitely give this a try. But what item should I use for Necro Dusk Mane as you didn't include that?
 

Geysers

But my sorrows, they learned to swim
is a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Ok time for me to try a full rate.
The first issues I see are with Ho-oh and steelceus.
Cm Steely really isn’t great this gen, so I think a good replacement would be a defensive groundceus.
:ss/arceus-steel: —> :ss/arceus-ground:
This shores up your zacian weakness, and provides a nice tool to bop zygardes and ndms.
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spa
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Stone Edge / Perish Song if you hate baton pass

This also sticks with the defensive overall theme of the team.
Next up:
:ss/ho-oh: —> mixed defensive
Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Sacred Fire

This spread allows it to effectively check zacian, by living a Wild Charge from full. This also lets you deal with marshadow more easily. Not too much more to say here, just tweaking the evs.

:ss/chansey:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Confide
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

This set helps manage special attackers such as Xerneas and Yveltal more effectively by dropping their Spa to reduce damage from consecutive hits, and providing consistent cleric support.
:ss/kyogre-primal: —> :ss/kyogre:
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse
- Water Spout

This set provides your team with some much needed speed control, enabling it to revenge kill Zacian-C with ease, and effectively chew through support Arceus-formes.
Lastly
:ss/groudon-primal:—> defensive set
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Precipice Blades

This set provides another Zacian answer, and a reliable rocksetter. Chansey is incapable of setting rocks against common pokemon such as Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, which this fixes. It also doubles as a status absorber, able to rest off status. In addition, it benefits from Chansey’s cleric support, which can help to wake it up.
also, get rid of the smeargle.

importable:
:ho-oh: :kyogre: :ditto: :chansey: :groudon: :arceus-ground:
 
Ok time for me to try a full rate.
The first issues I see are with Ho-oh and steelceus.
Cm Steely really isn’t great this gen, so I think a good replacement would be a defensive groundceus.
:ss/arceus-steel: —> :ss/arceus-ground:
This shores up your zacian weakness, and provides a nice tool to bop zygardes and ndms.
Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spa
Bold Nature
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Stone Edge / Perish Song if you hate baton pass

This also sticks with the defensive overall theme of the team.
Next up:
:ss/ho-oh: —> mixed defensive
Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 60 SpD
Impish Nature
- Defog
- Toxic
- Whirlwind
- Sacred Fire

This spread allows it to effectively check zacian, by living a Wild Charge from full. This also lets you deal with marshadow more easily. Not too much more to say here, just tweaking the evs.

:ss/chansey:
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Confide
- Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

This set helps manage special attackers such as Xerneas and Yveltal more effectively by dropping their Spa to reduce damage from consecutive hits, and providing consistent cleric support.
:ss/kyogre-primal: —> :ss/kyogre:
Kyogre @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Thunder
- Origin Pulse
- Water Spout

This set provides your team with some much needed speed control, enabling it to revenge kill Zacian-C with ease, and effectively chew through support Arceus-formes.
Lastly
:ss/groudon-primal:—> defensive set
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge
- Rest
- Precipice Blades

This set provides another Zacian answer, and a reliable rocksetter. Chansey is incapable of setting rocks against common pokemon such as Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, which this fixes. It also doubles as a status absorber, able to rest off status. In addition, it benefits from Chansey’s cleric support, which can help to wake it up.
also, get rid of the smeargle.

importable:
:ho-oh: :kyogre: :ditto: :chansey: :groudon: :arceus-ground:
This looks like exactly what I needed! Thanks a lot!
 

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