Garchomp [QC: 0/3]

[Weiki]

I thought poison jab is a viable move for Garchomp. I think a fairy killer set should be implemented :) :

Fairy Killer
########
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Dragon Claw/Outrage
ability: Rough Skin
item: Lifeorb / Lum Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Move-set is pretty self explanatory. Earthquake is to counter mawile/mega mawile and klefki. Posion Jab is for the rest of the common OU fairies (Azumarill, Gardevior, togekiss etc). And Dragon Claw is a non-locking stabbed attack.

 

[CyclicCompound]

I thought poison jab is a viable move for Garchomp. I think a fairy killer set should be implemented :) :

Fairy Killer
########
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Poison Jab
move 4: Dragon Claw/Outrage
ability: Rough Skin
item: Lifeorb / Lum Berry
nature: Jolly
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Move-set is pretty self explanatory. Earthquake is to counter mawile/mega mawile and klefki. Posion Jab is for the rest of the common OU fairies (Azumarill, Gardevior, togekiss etc). And Dragon Claw is a non-locking stabbed attack.

Although it looks nice on paper, Poison Jab is actually quite redundant when you look at the raw numbers.

Super effective Poison Jab: 160 BP
STAB Earthquake: 150 BP

You're only getting 10 more base power to basically hit one type out of the seventeen others, so Poison Jab is largely unnecessary. Factoring in the only relevant Fairy-type immune to Earthquake, Togekiss:

Super effective Poison Jab: 160 BP
Super effective Stone Edge: 200 BP

You're better off running Stone Edge for power and coverage reasons.

 

[Weiki]

Although it looks nice on paper, Poison Jab is actually quite redundant when you look at the raw numbers.

Super effective Poison Jab: 160 BP
STAB Earthquake: 150 BP

You're only getting 10 more base power to basically hit one type out of the eighteen others, so Poison Jab is largely unnecessary. Factoring in the only relevant Fairy-type immune to Earthquake, Togekiss:

Super effective Poison Jab: 160 BP
Super effective Stone Edge: 200 BP

You're better off running Stone Edge for power and coverage reasons.

I dun think stone edge is able to OHKO azumarill though. Not to mention that stone edge has a 80% accuracy. Posion Jab is SE against azumarill and has an accuracy of 100% :).

 

[CyclicCompound]

I dun think stone edge is able to OHKO azumarill though. Posion Jab is SE against azumarill

You wouldn't use Stone Edge, you'd use Earthquake for the STAB.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 511-602 (126.4 - 149%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[Weiki]

You wouldn't use Stone Edge, you'd use Earthquake for the STAB.

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

unable to use the calculator now (am replying via my handphone) but i am pretty sure a +2 poison jab is a guaranteed OHKO not only to azumarill and how about unaware clefable?

 

[CyclicCompound]

Yes, Poison Jab OHKOs Azumarill, but it does not OHKO unaware Clefable (not even specially defensive variants). Also, I edited my reply above (I forgot to account for Life Orb in my calculations), so Earthquake is a guaranteed OHKO on Azu as well.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Unaware Clefable: 294-348 (74.6 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Unaware Clefable: 274-325 (69.5 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Keep in mind, Earthquake still does almost the same amount of damage. I don't think it's even worth mentioning Poison Jab.

 

[alexwolf]

Obviously, Poison Jab should get no mention anywhere.

 

[Weiki]

Yea, i saw the edit, that is a clean OHKO. So how would u counter togekiss? Is stonedge the only option? I really dislike the 80% accuracy and that is the only reason why i use poison jab.

 

[sidakarya]

Yea, i saw the edit, that is a clean OHKO. So how would u counter togekiss? Is stonedge the only option? I really dislike the 80% accuracy and that is the only reason why i use poison jab.

Pretty much. Stone Edge still hits things like Talonflame and Pinsir hard, so it does have use outside of hitting Togekiss.

Keep in mind, a lot of things rely on Stone Edge for coverage. It sucks, when it misses, but if you're not called Breloom there's nothing similar with comparable power. Poison Jab also means Steel-types screw you over more than ever, too.

 

[Weiki]

Pretty much. Stone Edge still hits things like Talonflame and Pinsir hard, so it does have use outside of hitting Togekiss.

With all due respect, the Fairy Killer set is a set aimed to exterminate fairies, and possibly dent other pokes.
Keep in mind, a lot of things rely on Stone Edge for coverage. It sucks, when it misses, but if you're not called Breloom there's nothing similar with comparable power. Poison Jab also means Steel-types screw you over more than ever, too.

With all due respect, the Fairy Killer set is a set aimed to exterminate fairies, and at least dent other pokes.

Say, if garchomp had boosted dragon claw/outrage, wouldn't it OHKO most non-resist poke or at least dent the "resists" tremendously? In fact, say if u miss the stonedge, talonflame or mega pinsir has full health and can OHKO garchomp or possibly start sweeping or dent one of your team members.

For metal type, boosted and stabbed EQ can take care of most except for Physically Defensive skarmory.

 

[CyclicCompound]

With all due respect, the Fairy Killer set is a set aimed to exterminate fairies, and at least dent other pokes.

Say, if garchomp had boosted dragon claw/outrage, wouldn't it OHKO most non-resist poke or at least dent the "resists" tremendously? In fact, say if u miss the stonedge, talonflame or mega pinsir has full health and can OHKO garchomp or possibly start sweeping or dent one of your team members.

For metal type, boosted and stabbed EQ can take care of most except for Physically Defensive skarmory.

Our point is that having a dedicated "Fairy Killer" set is not needed. Garchomp's other moves are strong enough that having Poison-type coverage is redundant, unnecessary, and a thoroughly a waste of a moveslot, especially on a Pokemon with such strong offensive potential. If having a dedicated Fairy-killer is such a necessity, it should be left up to Garchomp's teammates.

 

[RotomPoison]

With all due respect, the Fairy Killer set is a set aimed to exterminate fairies, and at least dent other pokes.

Say, if garchomp had boosted dragon claw/outrage, wouldn't it OHKO most non-resist poke or at least dent the "resists" tremendously? In fact, say if u miss the stonedge, talonflame or mega pinsir has full health and can OHKO garchomp or possibly start sweeping or dent one of your team members.

For metal type, boosted and stabbed EQ can take care of most except for Physically Defensive skarmory.

STAB EQ: 150
SE Poison Jab: 160

Skarmory can be easily beaten by other Pokemon.

 

[Weiki]

Our point is that having a dedicated "Fairy Killer" set is not needed. Garchomp's other moves are strong enough that having Poison-type coverage is redundant, unnecessary, and a thoroughly a waste of a moveslot, especially on a Pokemon with such strong offensive potential. If having a dedicated Fairy-killer is such a necessity, it should be left up to Garchomp's teammates.

I would say, "Why not let Garchomp take care of his/her own weakness (Fairies)"?. Don't get me wrong, the standard Garchomp set works like a charm. Its just annoying that you might lose a strong physical sweeper just because you miss a stone edge. True, poison type has a redundant coverage but the versatility of dragon -type attack is more than enough to compensate, IMO.

 

[6feetunder]

I would say, "Why not let Garchomp take care of his/her own weakness (Fairies)"?. Don't get me wrong, the standard Garchomp set works like a charm. Its just annoying that you might lose a strong physical sweeper just because you miss a stone edge. True, poison type has a redundant coverage but the versatility of dragon -type attack is more than enough to compensate, IMO.

Unless you desperately need to hit whimsicott (a rare sight in OU) there is no point in running poison jab whatsoever. it accomplishes absolute jack shit that garchomp's other moves don't already.

 

[Weiki]

Unless you desperately need to hit whimsicott (a rare sight in OU) there is no point in running poison jab whatsoever. it accomplishes absolute jack shit that garchomp's other moves don't already.

Then, say in a situation where your garchomp is unable to perform a swordsdance, can any of the moveset (Earthquake, Stoneedge, etc.) OHKO azumarill even with a lifeorb?

 

[trc]

Then, say in a situation where your garchomp is unable to perform a swordsdance, can any of the moveset (Earthquake, Stoneedge, etc.) OHKO azumarill even with a lifeorb?

Poison Jab doesn't OHKO Azumarill with a Life Orb, so I really don't get your point. Earthquake will deal with Azumarill fine after a Swords Dance; without a Swords Dance, don't stay in on Azumarill. Simple.

 

[Weiki]

Do you have calcultion to prove ur

Poison Jab doesn't OHKO Azumarill with a Life Orb, so I really don't get your point. Earthquake will deal with Azumarill fine after a Swords Dance; without a Swords Dance, don't stay in on Azumarill. Simple.

Do you have calculation to prove your statement : "Poison Jab doesn't OHKO Azumarill with a Life Orb." - Sorry i have never used the damage calculator before. Also switching garchomp out (when facing azumarill) is in fact the best opportunity for azumarill to perform a belly-drum and to proceed a sweep.

 

[Magcargo]

Do you have calcultion to prove ur


Do you have calculation to prove your statement : "Poison Jab doesn't OHKO Azumarill with a Life Orb." - Sorry i have never used the damage calculator before. Also switching garchomp out (when facing azumarill) is in fact the best opportunity for azumarill to perform a belly-drum and to proceed a sweep.

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 276-325 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Weiki]

252 Atk Life Orb Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 276-325 (68.3 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Thanks :). At least now i know that Earthquake can be used to deal with azumarill. So i can only assume the best move to counter togekiss is with a stonedge.

 

[Gary]

Plus

Talked with some guys on IRC and we definitely agree that Scarf Garchomp deserves its own set. While it has to work around the likes of Azumarill, Clefable, Hippo, and being outsped by Deo-S, it's ability to revenge kill massive offensive threats such as Mega Pinsir, both Mega Charizards, Volcarona, Terrakion, Mega Lucario, both Lati twins, and DD Dragonite at +1 is incredible. It's also an amazing late game cleaner because it is able to sweep offensive teams with ease once its checks and counters are taken care of. Definitely a solid set that deserves more than just a mention, because it's almost a staple on a lot of my offensive teams because of the sheer amount of Pokemon it can revenge kill. Other than Talonflame and Choice Scarf Genesect, it's a lot harder to revenge kill Scarf Chomp this generation than last gen, mostly due to the lack of opposing Choice Scarf Pokemon, which is another advantage it has.

Choice Scarf
########
name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Dragon Claw / Fire Blast
ability: Rough Skin
item: Choice Scarf
nature: Jolly / Naive
evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

Stone Edge is a must for Mega Pinsir, who can easily eat up an Outrage and proceed to Return + Quick Attack you. Personally I never use Fire Blast because it's just so fucking weak and I prefer to have a reliable secondary Dragon-type STAB other than just Outrage, but it's still a nice lure to Skarmory and keeps you from losing a ton of momentum. I guess Dual Chop can be considered over Dragon Claw to revenge Sub Kyurem-B at low health, but Dragon Claw is overall the better option because missing is terrible and it happens a lot for some reason.

 

[lordkira]

I agree with Gary as well.
While priority is everywhere, garchomp has gotten relatively faster in gen 6 than in gen 5 due to the lack of keldeo, terrakion, genies trios, and the latis twins (not sure why for most). And let's not forget all the offensive pokemons it poses threat to as listed by Gary above. IMHO, garchomp has gotten back the status of having a ridiculously trollish speed tier (102) in gen 6.

 

[Ash Borer]

fire blast should be primary slash on scarchomp imo, it OHKOs gene which is quite useful!

 

[Jukain]

yeah fire blast > dclaw

rock slide is worth consideration, imo. the sedge miss chance just stinks, espec because it can be the diff between a win and a loss.

 

[alexwolf]

Agreeing with the inclusion of a Scarf set.

 

[Olijolly]

I agree with Gary as well.
While priority is everywhere, garchomp has gotten relatively faster in gen 6 than in gen 5 due to the lack of keldeo, terrakion, genies trios, and the latis twins (not sure why for most). And let's not forget all the offensive pokemons it poses threat to as listed by Gary above. IMHO, garchomp has gotten back the status of having a ridiculously trollish speed tier (102) in gen 6.

While I am with everyone about how tremendously good garchomp is, including the scarf set, I disagree with the notion of garchomp's 102 speed being "ridiculously trollish." While it outruns things like Charizard X/Y, things got even faster overall in generation 6 compared to generation 5. If anything, garchomp go relatively slower.