No, the gaining STAB twice part.
y'all don't read and it shows.I've been wanting to say this for a while, but Double STAB moves aren't really a thing. Flying Press is the closest and only example of 'Double STAB', but in reality it's just a Fighting-type move with Flying-type effectiveness as well.
Quoting from Bulbapedia, "Despite being a Fighting-type move, the damage dealt is actually a combination of Fighting and Flying types, and thus its effectiveness against a given Pokémon differs from other Fighting-type moves. However, for all other purposes, it is a Fighting-type move: only Fighting-type Pokémon can receive the same-type attack bonus on Flying Press, it is unaffected by items like the Sky Plate and Flying Gem, and it will not activate the target's Coba Berry."
There really isn't a thing as Double STAB moves, but I wouldn't mind a move which has two type effectivenesses but only gets STAB from a single type. Double STAB as a concept is hard to balance since theoretically it gives a 2.25x bonus to an otherwise weak move, which shouldn't be the case.
you obviously never been insulted by a mime. part with these hands.parting shot is when the mon insults the opponent as they leave. mr mime is a mime. this does not make sense.
i didnt say it was overpowered i said it was overcomplicated and unnecessary, you talk about keeping the code easy for scoopapa here's an example. you could easily just make it a 100 bp fairy move that drains 50% hp but naw it's gotta be flashy or something.
this is irrelevant - if its resisted it wont do that much damage in the first place. plus it's basically a grass type move that hits five typings se thats pretty dumb
parting shot is when the mon insults the opponent as they leave. mr mime is a mime. this does not make sense.
edit: its defined as a remark, so no hands here
By acknowledging the base power of ~150 as part of the “super dumb” concept, listed alongside the base 150 SpA, and bulk you are saying it’s any or all of those which are overpowered, as either the individual base power or the draining effect, or the combination of both make it too strong.didnt realize they didnt win my b
still, elj’s subs didnt need a buff, 165 refrige espeed is super dumb and so is 140/90/160 bulk with 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move (i really dont like double stab shit in general its just overcomplicated and unnecessary)
youre the leader you can enforce any rule you wantIt wasn’t my Pokemon to nominate, therefore it’s not my place to force out a new ability or move concept. He didn’t break any rules so I didn’t have to force it to be removed.
oh yeah lets just forget about 180 spa and primordial sea hereAs for the dual-type move, it is not irrelevant, as being single resisted doesn’t mean it won’t hit hard (think of Water Spout P-Kyogre),
i suggested mono fairy that hits seAlso, Dragon is the most prominent type Fairy is used to hit, as it is a common type in Ubers, but losing that as a Dual STAB is a huge loss, new Pokemon with Sap Sipper is another roadblock.
i meant in that context that you were downplaying double stab and either way do we really need more typings hitting 5 types seYour narrative highlights how it is “super dumb” when referring to hitting 5 types super effective, which by your context means “too strong/too good”, which you said you didn’t mean.
where the hell did this come from, i never mentioned effects (none) or the base power, i just said you could just have a 100 bp draining fairy move instead of GRASS FAIRY 70 BP MOVE AND ABILITY THAT DRAINS like whats the point of all this. if you want to hit water/ground/rock types you use grass move, if you want to hit dark/dragon/bug you use fairy move, don’t introduce some unnecessary dual stab move cause its “quirky” or somethingSo it’s not that it’s just a dual-type, it’s the number of Pokemon it hits, the effects, and the base power, which all contribute to how good/strong it is. So you can deny you didn’t mean it’s too power powered, but the rest of your points suggest that is exactly what you mean.
okay i noticed it now, am i not allowed to notice thingsAlso, in regards to Mr. Mime, the only new move was the Wall-up Wallop, which I included at the top of my post, and therefore Parting Shot was apart of the original winning submission. Since you chose not to notice that, your point on Parting Shot is moot.
you conveniently ignored the animation of parting shot where silvally appears to swear at the opponentEven if you needed to understand, the official Pokedex entry says:
With a parting threat, the user lowers the target's Attack and Sp. Atk stats. Then it switches with a party Pokémon
Mr. Mime: Mr. Mime is a master of pantomime. Its gestures and motions convince watchers that something unseeable actually exists. Once the watchers are convinced, the unseeable thing exists as if it were real.
No mention of verbal communication, it creates things out of nothing, and that parting shot could be what Mr. Mime convinced anything to believe.
you assumed base 150 spa and base power 150 were independent so in fact you did draw a conclusionBy acknowledging the base power of ~150 as part of the “super dumb” concept, listed alongside the base 150 SpA, and bulk you are saying it’s any or all of those overpowered, as either the individual base power or the draining effect, or the combination of both.
I didn’t draw conclusions, I saw your point for what it is - “super dumb” power + stats + effect = overpowering.
didnt realize they didnt win my b
still, elj’s subs didnt need a buff, 165 refrige espeed is super dumb and so is 140/90/160 bulk with 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move (i really dont like double stab shit in general its just overcomplicated and unnecessary)
I know I am the leader, but like I said, he didn’t break any rules... he did nothing wrong.youre the leader you can enforce any rule you want
oh yeah lets just forget about 180 spa and primordial sea here
i suggested mono fairy that hits se
also only gogoat has sap sipper and never will use so who gives a shit about sap sipper
i meant in that context that you were downplaying double stab and either way do we really need more typings hitting 5 types se
where the hell did this come from, i never mentioned effects (none) or the base power, i just said you could just have a 100 bp draining fairy move instead of GRASS FAIRY 70 BP MOVE AND ABILITY THAT DRAINS like whats the point of all this. if you want to hit water/ground/rock types you use grass move, if you want to hit dark/dragon/bug you use fairy move, don’t introduce some unnecessary dual stab move cause its “quirky” or something
okay i noticed it now, am i not allowed to notice things
you conveniently ignored the animation of parting shot where silvally appears to swear at the opponent
also insult is different from “convincing of a threat”
you assumed base 150 spa and base power 150 were independent so in fact you did draw a conclusion
this double stab extends to politoed and poliwrath and others, can we stop subbing mons that rely on gimmicky bullshit and focus more on adding some kind of role compression or filling a niche
if you took the miniscule effort to look at the spreadsheet you would see that only gogoat has sap sipperShiinotic itself has Sap Sipper, and any other submission from any other slates you need to consider that we’re given it...
you know what else i said? "with," which implies that 150 spa and 150 bp go togetherYou literally said 150 BP, which literally means the BP and the SpA are not the same... otherwise you wouldn’t have specified BP for base power. I didn’t draw any conclusion, because you specified it as such. You literally said the 150 spa ~150 BP so that means you think it’s overpowered based on either one or both factors, which I already acknowledged as either being the case.
if you took the miniscule effort to look at the spreadsheet you would see that only gogoat has sap sipper
also who the fuck would use sap sipper shiinotic
you know what else i said? "with," which implies that 150 spa and 150 bp go together
why would i take upcoming subs into account they dont even exist yet and thats assuming they winYou missed my point on how I said “and any other submission from any other slates you need to consider that we’re given it...”
That means any at all. Including any that people decide to buff here before the submission closes.
with is a separator, it implies 140/90/160 bulk and 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move are different things, which also implies 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move is put togetherThe with is in regards to Bulk, there is no with between 150 SpA and ~150 bp.
i've posted both useful submissions and feedback and youre the one that started the fuckin semantics lolYour semantics have derailed the thread, either post useful submissions and set feedbacks or stop posting if you cannot control yourself.
Please discontinue to post in this thread. I have warned you on discord for the feedback you have given, and many people discussed it there and have brought to my attention what you have done to them. Believe it or not, but you have derailed the thread. You argue about “with” and that has no bearing to anything but a petty attempt to distract from the main points.why would i take upcoming subs into account they dont even exist yet and thats assuming they win
with is a separator, it implies 140/90/160 bulk and 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move are different things, which also implies 150 spa ~150 bp 50% draining move is put together
i've posted both useful submissions and feedback and youre the one that started the fuckin semantics lol
you chose to argue your point that i suggested 150 spa 150 bp draining move was overpowered so that sounds like a you problemYou argue about “with” and that has no bearing to anything but a petty attempt to distract from the main points.
okay, you know what also happens? shiinotic hits the other shiinotic with fairy move with drain effect. what does sap sipper do here anymoreIf you also gave advice on removing the draining ability, and using a drain move that means Sap Sipper has a higher likelihood of being used
i put it at b- rank im pretty sureThis got nerfed for absolutely reason, as even in its current state it is a B rank Pokémon at best. After the nerf it couldn't even get ranked.
you might've forgotten that ground types also remove static signal, so that includes pdon and zygod and groundceus and other ground-type subs. or maybe i misread it, it may have been ground types are just immune. don't remember atm.Static Signal is a real pain to deal with if your defogger isn't immune to it (yveltal is not a defogger in my eyes). Rotom-Fan has more offensive presence but Pachi can whack stuff with +2 Tbolts lol.
this sounds pretty inconsistent, id either add prankster for screens or reverse the boosts (which i find unnecessary cause it isnt gonna do much damage anyway) and make it fairy typeWall-Up Wallop - Psychic-type, 80 Base Power, 100% Accuracy, Special, 16 PP, - 1 Priority. Summons Light Screen or Reflect based the user’s lowest Defense (Baddy Bad/Glitzy Glow clone, with Photon Geyser‘s stat determinant for Defense. If equal then summons Reflect).
Stop.you chose to argue your point that i suggested 150 spa 150 bp draining move was overpowered so that sounds like a you problem
okay, you know what also happens? shiinotic hits the other shiinotic with fairy move with drain effect. what does sap sipper do here anymore
alright lets get back on topic
i put it at b- rank im pretty sure
the problem with swalot is that poison typing is kinda bad in ubers with all the psychic and grounds running around (lunala, mewtwo, unecro, zygod, pdon, groundceus, etc.) and that it has a lack of good resistances. so i guess i would support a swalot buff, we would need to see how the big bulk does in the meta
solrock is kinda weird, i like that it does more though it does get walled by big zyg, waterceus/wailord, as well as it losing its niche in checking pdon (since it now gets hit by stone edge). then again that was its only niche so this is an improvement ig
you might've forgotten that ground types also remove static signal, so that includes pdon and zygod and groundceus and other ground-type subs. or maybe i misread it, it may have been ground types are just immune. don't remember atm.
this sounds pretty inconsistent, id either add prankster for screens or reverse the boosts (which i find unnecessary cause it isnt gonna do much damage anyway) and make it fairy type
simipour buff is good
ledian buff is kinda weird, prankster bug/fighting sounds bad and dual screens is pretty outclassed by deo-s. focus on it being a physical wallbreaker imo.
maractus buff is equally weird, idk what im gonna do with a specially defensive grass/ground. maybe make it some speedy attacker? idk
agree on rapidash buff, 135 atk is good
I made Glowing Blast and Pixie Burst a move that only gains STAB once. I hope that’s fine.Now, to discuss submission itself
Sure, if you decide to edit your post to reflect that, you can mention to treat it like Flying Press clone, if you wish.I made Glowing Blast (and it’s other move) a move that only gains STAB once. I hope that’s fine.
Go Jynx! Go Shuckle! For Marowak:New subs are up!
Type: Ice/Psychic
Abilities: Neuroforce, Psychic Surge
85/50/95/135/115/120 - 600
New moves: Power Gem, Earth Power, Thunderbolt, Freeze-Dry
Competitive: Jynx can function as a setup sweeper with Nasty Plot, or you can put Specs on it for an all-out attacker set. Power Gem, Earth Power, Focus Blast and Freeze-Dry alone will hit most of the meta super-effectively, with further coverage in Shadow Ball and Thunderbolt, so Neuroforce sets can be very scary to face. Psychic Surge will boost Jynx’s Psychic-type STAB to massive levels, and giving it immunity to priority attacks lets it potentially beat out Pokémon that would otherwise be a problem for it, such as Sucker Punch Yveltal and Triage Parasect. However, faster Pokémon are a big problem for Jynx. Mega Gengar and Marshadow don’t appreciate switching in on anything except Focus Blast, but they can easily outspeed and revenge-kill it. Jynx also faces stiff competition from Ultra Necrozma, who also sports Neuroforce, is much faster, hits much harder, has better physical bulk, has a marginally better defensive typing, can switch into much more (especially if it’s in one of its prior forms), and can run physical, special, or mixed sets. Jynx, however, has better coverage than Ultra Necrozma and a much better offensive typing, plus it gets Nasty Plot, can hold an item, and can have Psychic Surge.
Type: Bug/Rock
Abilities: Oblivious, Poison Heal
75/10/230/10/230/5 - 560
New moves: Defend Order, Heal Order, Whirlwind, Spikes
Competitive: I doubt there’s much to explain here. Same old Shuckle with some more HP, reliable recovery, phazing, another hazard and some useful Abilities. Oblivious prevents it from being taunted, one of Shuckle’s biggest weaknesses, so it doesn’t have to hold a Mental Herb just to get rocks and webs (and spikes) up. Poison Heal is for passive healing and Toxic immunity, which removes another one of Shuckle’s biggest weaknesses. Oblivious is more useful if you’re using Shuckle as a lead, while Poison Heal works best on the more passive stall sets. Shuckle does have some weaknesses, though. It still has a direct-damage output of basically zero, so you can pretty much wall it with anything that has recovery provided it’s immune to Toxic damage. It’s still usually setup bait, though you can use Whirlwind to troll people who try to set up in your face. It struggles against wallbreakers and setup sweepers if they have boosts up. And, of course, Shuckle must choose between losing to Taunt and losing to Toxic.
Type: Ground/Rock
Ability: Huge Power
100/55/150/50/80/90 - 525
New moves: Head Smash, Shadow Bone
Removed moves: Swords Dance, Focus Energy, Laser Focus, Curse, Rage, Ancient Power, Power-Up Punch, Belly Drum, Belly Drum again
Competitive: Looking at base stats and typing alone, one might wonder how exactly this would fit into Ubers. It has an awful defensive typing, lands in an unimpressive Speed tier and has pathetic attacking stats. Then you notice it’s Marowak, and it has Huge Power. Ohhh boy. Let’s put this into numbers: with Huge Power and a Thick Club, Marowak’s Attack is quadrupled. It’s the equivalent of having a Belly Drum boost the moment you send it out. Uninvested, it reaches 584 Attack, which is more than an uninvested base 255 Attack. With full Attack investment, Marowak clocks in at 916 Attack, slightly more than Necrozma-DM at +2. Fortunately for every other Pokémon, every single possible method of boosting Marowak’s Attack or critical-hit rate has been removed (Belly Drum was so broken I had to remove it twice). As mentioned before, Marowak also sits in a lackluster Speed tier and has a terrible defensive typing with little special bulk and no recovery. It serves as an absolutely monstrous wallbreaker with STAB EdgeQuake and decent physical bulk, and it doesn’t really need much else to make an impact.
I’m going to have to disagree with this one. Sand in regular Ubers is already unviable with the Primals running around, and fUtU has added two Delta Stream users to the mix. I think the HP is fine where it is.For Shuckle, can we lower it’s HP to 50-55? I have to also consider Sandstream support as it is a Rock-type. Thanks!
Okay. I just had to consider that compared to Chansey; Mega-Steelix, and Mega-Aggron with high Bulk, they usually have a weaker Def or SpD, but Shuckle can truly be a huge mixed wall. As Mega Steelix and Mega Aggron have equal Def to Shuckle, and ~ the same HP.I’m going to have to disagree with this one. Sand in regular Ubers is already unviable with the Primals running around, and fUtU has added two Delta Stream users to the mix. I think the HP is fine where it is.
It’s hard to break through unboosted, but it’s complete setup fodder if it isn’t a Whirlwind or Defend Order set. It also straight-up loses to Taunt if it runs Poison Heal.Okay. I just had to consider that compared to Chansey; Mega-Steelix, and Mega-Aggron with high Bulk, they usually have a weaker Def or SpD, but Shuckle can truly be a huge mixed wall.
I guess the weakness to Water, and Stealth Rock will help, I am just concerned with PHeal, it will be hard to break through.
In either case, I’ll let it be. But just explaining my reasoning behind it.
I forgot to give my feedback on this. I just want to let you know that I really, really, REALLY love the idea of a physical Gravity user, especially one with High Jump Kick as one of its best moves so you have to weigh your options.Pokemon: Stantler
Type: Ground / Ice
Ability: Levitate / Gravitate (Triggers 5 turns Gravity from Lunatone’s Slate) / Hard Hooves (Tough Claws clone from Rapidash’s slate)
110/135/110/90/110/110 - 665
New moves: High Horsepower, Bulk Up, Horn Leech, High-Jump Kick, Blaze Kick, Arctic Hooves (Leech Life Clone)
New Move - Arctic Hooves - 80 Base Power, Physical, 100% Accuracy, Ice-Type, 16 PP - Drains 50% damage dealt
Competitive: Christmas came a little early this year, and Rudolph plans to bring you the gift of dual-coverage so weather (pun intended!), it’s flying above your chimney to deliver gifts, dropping by a heavy gift with Gravity, or charging at its rivals, Stantler is here to bring joy to those who were nice, and punish those who were naughty!
Levitate - Rudolph leads the pack as the original Reindeer, as it knows how to soar above most entry hazards like Spikes, as well as Ground-attacks, and punish other Ground-types weak to Ice / Ground STAB.
Gravitate - Bc the legend of Rudolph is all about Gravity, I thought it best for us to let Rudolph use Gravity for 5-8 turns, which not only helps it’s Ground-moves, but also helps it’s Accuracy. Still, this comes at the cost of not being able to use High-Jump Kick, Bounce; and other coverage options. Further, Gravity has the double-edged sword of letting the opponent’s team gain the Accuracy boost and prevents my Flying/Levitators from being immune to hazards/Ground moves too.
Hard Hooves - Finally, the exact counterpart to Rapidash is here, being able to charge at the foe with a bit of a power boost, and knock its opponents flying. Thanks to it’s new move, Arctic Antlers, it can heal, as well as dish damage. Horn Drain also gives it access for coverage against Water-types, but lacks STAB.
Overall, it’s a perfect blend of good offense typing at the cost of a bad defense typing, and middling Speed / Defenses. This makes it a balanced Pokemon, through and through. Still, it’s versatility in ability functions allow it to stay defensive with Levitate, use support options (Hypnosis) and a bit of offense (Mega Horn) with Gravitate, or go all out on the Attack with Hard Hooves.
You mess with Santa, and you get the Antlers!
Santa’s Little Helper (Stantler) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Bulk Up
- High Horsepower
- Arctic Hooves
- Bounce / High-Jump Kick
Rudolph (Stantler) @ Density Amplifier
Ability: Gravitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Hypnosis
- High Horsepower
- Arctic Hooves
- Mega Horn
It came to Sleigh! (Stantler) @ Life Orb
Ability: Hard Hooves
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Blaze Kick
- High Horsepower
- Arctic Hooves
- Mega Horn
Thank you!I forgot to give my feedback on this. I just want to let you know that I really, really, REALLY love the idea of a physical Gravity user, especially one with High Jump Kick as one of its best moves so you have to weigh your options.
My only question is this:
Will you be doing a Sawsbuck sub to go along with it?
personally, i don't think ground types should absorb static signal for the same reason that steel types don't absorb tspikes. but if it has been coded that way, then so be it.you might've forgotten that ground types also remove static signal, so that includes pdon and zygod and groundceus and other ground-type subs. or maybe i misread it, it may have been ground types are just immune. don't remember atm.