camerupt fucks with all of these better, being immune to twave and no sr weak
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EVOlution 1 - Part 2 - Pokémon Poll 3!
- Thread starter darkie
- Start date
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Let's take a look at Farfetch'd's base stats:
52 HP
65 Atk
55 Def
58 SpA
62 SpD
60 Spe
How much would one have to add to the base stats to make it OU? Personally, the only way a Farfetch'd evo could feasibly become OU is if it were the final evo of a three-stage line, not the final evo of a two-stage line. If we were making evos for the UU metagame, then I'd happily support Farfetch'd.
52 HP
65 Atk
55 Def
58 SpA
62 SpD
60 Spe
How much would one have to add to the base stats to make it OU? Personally, the only way a Farfetch'd evo could feasibly become OU is if it were the final evo of a three-stage line, not the final evo of a two-stage line. If we were making evos for the UU metagame, then I'd happily support Farfetch'd.
id like to say the path doesnt matter and the end result (a new ou pokemon that fits a great niche in Pt) is the only thing that matters, but the thing is the more we focus on *creating* the further our goal is and the harder it is to create a pokemon like a camerupt that will kinda obviously fill a niche like the one i described in my thread. (*evolving*)
the problem with pyroak imo is lack of decent offense imo.. fire/ground is a great sstab attacking combo and an even better def typing in this metagame, this could be pyroak without the foolish hope of beating bulky waters like celebi does, but still beating bliss. this is pretty much a "better" heatran in every way (could beat bliss without booming, which it can do, and beats almost all steels minus like cb gross.
fetch'd/houndoom evo problems have been discussed
the problem with pyroak imo is lack of decent offense imo.. fire/ground is a great sstab attacking combo and an even better def typing in this metagame, this could be pyroak without the foolish hope of beating bulky waters like celebi does, but still beating bliss. this is pretty much a "better" heatran in every way (could beat bliss without booming, which it can do, and beats almost all steels minus like cb gross.
fetch'd/houndoom evo problems have been discussed
Voted Houndoom.
Do we really want to see a rags to riches story with Farfetch'd? Right now it has 52/65/55/58/62/60. To make it competitively viable in OU we would need to do something along the lines of a Magikarp-->Gyarados, which in my opinion is not evolving a pokemon but rather creating a whole new one.
We already have CAP for that.
Houndoom is a great pokemon, don't get me wrong. It has a unique typing with excellent dual STAB. It's usefulness in OU is clear, with its Fire STAB to bring down the many Steels and Dark STAB to take out Rotom forms, Cresselia, Dusknoir, etc. It can switch into Dusknoir's Will-O-Wisp and threaten it out, Rotom-H's Overheat or Shadow Ball, Cresselia's Ice Beam or Psychic, Azelf's Flamthrower or Psychic, among so many others. Its types are extremely underrepresented in OU - there are only 2 Fire types (Infernape, Heatran) and 3 Dark types (Weavile, Spiritomb, Tyranitar) in OU, so Houndoom would clearly have a place. It's clear to see that it can work effectively in OU. plus its a kickass Hellhound...I mean come on - a Hellhound!
It has all this great potential, but all it needs is a push in the right direction to make him better suited for the OU metagame. Frail sweepers rely on one of two things to help them sweep - either they have the speed to outrun most opposing threats and therefore not have to take a hit (Alakazam, Gengar, Weavile, etc), or they have a crippling move that can quickly take out one of their counters (Trick, Hypnosis..). Houndoom has neither, with it being outrun by things like Celebi and Jirachi, and its only status move being Will-O-Wisp. It has such great potential, but yet it is relegated to the netherland of BL - being too strong for UU and not quite strong enough for OU - and therefore sees next to no competitive play. Here at EVO, we are in a prime position to realise Houndoom's potential and finally allow the GSC hellhound to see the light of day.
If you want a Fighting/Flying mixed sweeper, fine. Go propose it for CAP 6, because it has absolutely nothing to do with Farfetch'd. Farfetch'd, with its crit abusing Stick, Swords Dance and Agility, could be a perfectly decent NU sweeper when the tier finally gets sorted. Don't utterly ruin the concept behind Farfetch'd and disfigure it into some sort of flying samurai thing, because that will not be Farfetch'd you will be using in OU - it will be completely different. If we decide a pokemon deserves an evolution, it should really retain the basics of its predecessor. Farfetch'd+ will not.
Therefore I urge you people who haven't voted yet, take all this into mind. Houndoom needs the votes. Don't give in to the fanboyism behind Farfetch'd+, vote Houndoom!
[/rant]
EDIT: Completely out of interest, this week's pokemon of the week on Serebii: Houndoom
We already have CAP for that.
Houndoom is a great pokemon, don't get me wrong. It has a unique typing with excellent dual STAB. It's usefulness in OU is clear, with its Fire STAB to bring down the many Steels and Dark STAB to take out Rotom forms, Cresselia, Dusknoir, etc. It can switch into Dusknoir's Will-O-Wisp and threaten it out, Rotom-H's Overheat or Shadow Ball, Cresselia's Ice Beam or Psychic, Azelf's Flamthrower or Psychic, among so many others. Its types are extremely underrepresented in OU - there are only 2 Fire types (Infernape, Heatran) and 3 Dark types (Weavile, Spiritomb, Tyranitar) in OU, so Houndoom would clearly have a place. It's clear to see that it can work effectively in OU. plus its a kickass Hellhound...I mean come on - a Hellhound!
It has all this great potential, but all it needs is a push in the right direction to make him better suited for the OU metagame. Frail sweepers rely on one of two things to help them sweep - either they have the speed to outrun most opposing threats and therefore not have to take a hit (Alakazam, Gengar, Weavile, etc), or they have a crippling move that can quickly take out one of their counters (Trick, Hypnosis..). Houndoom has neither, with it being outrun by things like Celebi and Jirachi, and its only status move being Will-O-Wisp. It has such great potential, but yet it is relegated to the netherland of BL - being too strong for UU and not quite strong enough for OU - and therefore sees next to no competitive play. Here at EVO, we are in a prime position to realise Houndoom's potential and finally allow the GSC hellhound to see the light of day.
If you want a Fighting/Flying mixed sweeper, fine. Go propose it for CAP 6, because it has absolutely nothing to do with Farfetch'd. Farfetch'd, with its crit abusing Stick, Swords Dance and Agility, could be a perfectly decent NU sweeper when the tier finally gets sorted. Don't utterly ruin the concept behind Farfetch'd and disfigure it into some sort of flying samurai thing, because that will not be Farfetch'd you will be using in OU - it will be completely different. If we decide a pokemon deserves an evolution, it should really retain the basics of its predecessor. Farfetch'd+ will not.
Therefore I urge you people who haven't voted yet, take all this into mind. Houndoom needs the votes. Don't give in to the fanboyism behind Farfetch'd+, vote Houndoom!
[/rant]
EDIT: Completely out of interest, this week's pokemon of the week on Serebii: Houndoom
I voted Houndoom. We need a more competitve fire type in the OU Metagame that isn't named infernape.And it would be nice to see how things played out from there. Obviously it will be hampered by the things that all fire type sweepers tend to struggle with, Stealth Rock, so it would have to be pretty beastly to play that efficiently, perhaps something of the mold of Deoxys A in Ubers?
I'm surprised at the amount of posts labeling the Pokemon's current usefulness as a reason for or against the evolution. As I see it The tiers from NU upwards are like a scale of work needed to springboard our ideas on and as for which area you'd like to work with is up to your own taste. The idea that evolving Farfetch'd will make this CAP6 is laughable. Sure it certainly has more breathing room than Houndoom but no matter which NU we pick it will never require the same amount of work as an actual CAP Poke provided we do this properly and that is still well within the orginal spirit and means of the project. On the other hand that doesn't mean that Houndoom being BL does not deserve an evolution either since it's not ultimately how fun the process is but it's the result that matters and so long as we can make it vaiable there's no problem with the short hop in stats. Both Pokes are good choices it's just what we want to end up with that matters.
PS. Vote Farfy!
PS. Vote Farfy!
I really think that none of the NU pokes should have been considered in the first place. People complaining that doing Houndoom would make it far too short and simple, I believe that that is what the evo project is about. If you want to evolve something rubbish into something amazing just like magic, then by all means vote Farfetch'd.
There are many people here that obviously wouldn't have wanted any BL Pokes in either that doesn't mean that makes it right. By choosing Farfetch'd we're not turning this into a CAP clone or pushing the project out of its original spirit. With CAP we takes things step by step and tweak our ideas slowly with EVO there's far more focus on the final result from the get go regardless of our choice. So please don't insult people voting for Farfetch'd.
Gormengast, it doesn't work that way.
Farfetch'd, I want a Fighting/Flying sweeping bird...
...but I'd prefer a new poll with camerupt.
...but I'd prefer a new poll with camerupt.
X-Act, you should know better than me that most added evolutions have a +130 BST about - Aipom, Onyx, Lickitung are just some examples. But, even if I voted for the hell hound, i want to throw my 2 cents in favor of the little duck: guys, you dont need to give him a crazy BST boost in order to make him bulky but hard hitting. Just give him Huge power and a Stat layout like the following
90/60/88/78/94/80
This way you have a bulky flying who can also pack quite a punch. Just give him nothing more than Brick Break and Aerial Ace as stabs and you are perfectly fine.
The reason I said that NU pokes shouldn't have been considered is because sensible evos of them would have the stats of a UU pokemon, therefore there would have to be numerous changes to the pokemon's other attributes to make it BL, let alone OU. At least with BL and even UU pokes, you have something to work with. With NU pokes, you have practically nothing to work with.
What about Heatran....Heatran is a very competitive pokemon in the OU metagame....and Pyroak have been used quite alot since the release of Plat Scizor.
I really support an alt check at this point. :/
Houndoom all the way. A Farfetch'd evo would just be turned into a Staraptor clone. If he DOES win the vote (and god help us if he does) we should stay true to his roots and NOT turn him into a Fighting/Flying Staraptor v2.
He should keep his typing and keep his well-rounded stats (Whether that means Base 90 all round, hell if I care). An EVO Pokemon should carve their own niche into the metagame, not outright replace the position of another Pokemon.
He should keep his typing and keep his well-rounded stats (Whether that means Base 90 all round, hell if I care). An EVO Pokemon should carve their own niche into the metagame, not outright replace the position of another Pokemon.
rookies itt
heatran dies siwtching into superpower, also doesnt like stab tb from zapdos, also cant touch bliss without taunt/explode. twave waek hurts it
like the niche waiting for camperupt? (see my thread)
another firetype that resists bullet punch but eventually jut gets twaved by something or other, JUST to stop scizor? im kind of tired of that... although i didnt know about pyroak.
"deserving" is not the main premise of this project.
pyrzi, if Houndoom is a 'perfectly viable Pokémon' then may I ask you why it's currently lower in usage in OU than some UUs?
Also, this is not about what 'needs an evolution' it is about what would bring the most to the metagame. :|
Also, this is not about what 'needs an evolution' it is about what would bring the most to the metagame. :|
Aw, and Houndoom was leading last night.
I call shenanigans on drive-by votes from Farfetch'd fans who have little vested interest in the results or goals of this project and are deciding based on opinions of what is 'fair' or 'cool'. To be fair, the Houndoom camp probably has its share of uninterested voters too. It'd be helpful if more people posted their reasoning for voting the way they did so we could get a feel of what drives the polls to surge one way or another.
I call shenanigans on drive-by votes from Farfetch'd fans who have little vested interest in the results or goals of this project and are deciding based on opinions of what is 'fair' or 'cool'. To be fair, the Houndoom camp probably has its share of uninterested voters too. It'd be helpful if more people posted their reasoning for voting the way they did so we could get a feel of what drives the polls to surge one way or another.
FYI, I have been testing Houndoom and its lack of speed has caused it problems against many other pokemon, most notably Gengar and ScarfHera. Because the only way to outspeed these is with Choice Scarf, Houndoom then has problems with other pokemon that it normally wouldn't, such as Bronzong and Heatran.
Not as bad as it sounds imo. They're plenty of room for it to work with.
352 + 125 = 477
352 + 175 = 527
So....if you plan ahead and use a lot of know-how, you can make a decent OU pokemon out of any Pokemon regardless of a limit. Bulky Knightfetch with 90/90/120 defensive prowess please D:
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