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DP Dragonite .
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This is a really minor but reading it made me think that when discussing what base speeds pokes you beat when adjusting the EVs that is was redundant to keep saying unless they are holding a choice scarf themselves. It seems kind of obvious and unnecessary to repeat and even mention that something faster than you with a scarf is going to outrun you. Just a thought.
Two things only. I highly recommend Tbolt on the last moveslot over anything else since Gyarados is far more common than the stuff you will be Ice Beaming without Dragon Claw and Outrage doing more to them.
Dragon Claw as an alternative over Flamethrower too in cases you want to kill that Gengar yet you don't want your cleaner stuck with Outrage.
Dragon Claw as an alternative over Flamethrower too in cases you want to kill that Gengar yet you don't want your cleaner stuck with Outrage.
The T-Bolt issue was already addressed. Dragon Claw is a good option (much like it is on the Scarf Chomp set), but since Draco Meteor is such a powerful move, I honestly think that you don't need it in the end.
Good set. Not much to add since everything has already been addressed. Maybe it is time that Salamence got his own Scarf set as well
Focus Punch might deserve an honourable mention, as it severely dents Blissey without leaving yourself trapped in.
what don't take out ice beam that's stupid. while wayff may have found ice beam useless i found it to be the 2nd most useful move on the set (behind outrage of course).
not to mention it's really the only thing that separates scarfnite from scarfchomp besides the surprise factor. scarfchomp has trouble dealing with things like gliscor and hippowdon while scarfnite with ice beam does not (i'd have to do calcs but i don't really think draco really cuts it since after the sp. attack drop i don't think you'd be 2hkoing. also the ohko on gliscor has been a godsend so many times).
not to mention it's really the only thing that separates scarfnite from scarfchomp besides the surprise factor. scarfchomp has trouble dealing with things like gliscor and hippowdon while scarfnite with ice beam does not (i'd have to do calcs but i don't really think draco really cuts it since after the sp. attack drop i don't think you'd be 2hkoing. also the ohko on gliscor has been a godsend so many times).
Not to mention Ice Beam is also keeping this from being outclassed by Salamence. I know...Outrage...but a faster, stronger Draco Meteor is more useful than an Outrage imo.
Ice Beam has also been much more useful than Draco Meteor ever has been for me in my experience with the set. It also keeps things like Zapdos and Celebi from getting free switchins after the SpAtk drop.
If people are really that persistant about Draco Meteor, then it should be a slash next to Ice Beam. Ice Beam is the main option here and it would be a horrible tragedy to not have it on this set.
Ice Beam has also been much more useful than Draco Meteor ever has been for me in my experience with the set. It also keeps things like Zapdos and Celebi from getting free switchins after the SpAtk drop.
If people are really that persistant about Draco Meteor, then it should be a slash next to Ice Beam. Ice Beam is the main option here and it would be a horrible tragedy to not have it on this set.
Just popping in to say that Draco Meteor should definately be the main option over Ice Beam.
Super effective Ice Beam does 190 base power, while normally effective Draco Meteor hits at 210. Thats over 10% harder of a hit. Draco Meteor also hits those 4x Ice weak dragons much harder, especially Garchomp, who almost always packs a Yache Berry.
The one pokemon that would get harmed more by Ice Beam than Draco Meteor is Gliscor, and Draco Meteor smacks him around anyways. I see Ice Beam is a fairly redundant option. Draco Meteor also allows you to lay down a powerful dragon attack without getting trapped by Outrage. It's coming off of a decent 254 special attack so it'll dent stuff. In fact, Outrage is only 27% stronger than Draco Meteor, so i think it's definately worth it.
Super effective Ice Beam does 190 base power, while normally effective Draco Meteor hits at 210. Thats over 10% harder of a hit. Draco Meteor also hits those 4x Ice weak dragons much harder, especially Garchomp, who almost always packs a Yache Berry.
The one pokemon that would get harmed more by Ice Beam than Draco Meteor is Gliscor, and Draco Meteor smacks him around anyways. I see Ice Beam is a fairly redundant option. Draco Meteor also allows you to lay down a powerful dragon attack without getting trapped by Outrage. It's coming off of a decent 254 special attack so it'll dent stuff. In fact, Outrage is only 27% stronger than Draco Meteor, so i think it's definately worth it.
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It's a scarfer. A hit and run set. You are going to switch out after using your attack, because your opponent won't be an idiot and send in something weak to it. You use Dragonite to surprise the opponent at first, get a kill, and then you revenge kill with it. Late game, you attempt an outrage sweep.
Super effective Ice Beam does less than Draco Meteor. 210 > 190.
And Gliscor takes 62% average from the first Meteor, 32% average from the second. With SR on the field it's a guarenteed kill. Draco Meteor hits everything else that Ice Beam would a full 10% harder.
It's a scarfer. A hit and run set. You are going to switch out after using your attack, because your opponent won't be an idiot and send in something weak to it. You use Dragonite to surprise the opponent at first, get a kill, and then you revenge kill with it. Late game, you attempt an outrage sweep.
Super effective Ice Beam does less than Draco Meteor. 210 > 190.
And Gliscor takes 62% average from the first Meteor, 32% average from the second. With SR on the field it's a guarenteed kill. Draco Meteor hits everything else that Ice Beam would a full 10% harder.
I didn't really read any of the comments on this thread so dunno if this has been said, but Garchomp could arguably do this better. Same moveset with STAB EQ and better defenses and SR resistance. With 252 attack, 248 spatk, and 8 speed, it gets 9 less attack and 4 more special attack than dragonite. I think the only thing that would make dragonite unique is his more varied movepool, Ice beam thunderbolt etc.
Draco Meteor will never 2HKO a full strength Hippowdon, whereas Ice Beam has a very good chance at the 2HKO. Gliscor can even survive two hits (although a 2HKO is possible), but it is clearly destroyed by Ice Beam. If you want an easier time with bulky Grounds (that aren't Swampert), use Ice Beam. If you would rather revenge kill Yache Berry Garchomp without getting locked into Outrage, use Draco Meteor. Ice Beam still does an average of 50% to Yache Chomp, and averages a OHKO on the non-Yache sets. Personally, I got more out of Ice Beam than Draco Meteor.
Thank you, Phuquoph, for clearing that up!
Mr_Goodbar, you answered that well enough by yourself. Ice Beam is a big difference between them, with Thunderbolt for a secondary option as well.
Inner focus too. Pokemon with flinching attacks isn't going to stop Dragonite.
I missed Light's comments somehow, but does anyone else think Focus Punch deserves a mention in the set or in set comments?
EDIT: Locking this as it has been added into the SCMS.
Mr_Goodbar, you answered that well enough by yourself. Ice Beam is a big difference between them, with Thunderbolt for a secondary option as well.
Inner focus too. Pokemon with flinching attacks isn't going to stop Dragonite.
I missed Light's comments somehow, but does anyone else think Focus Punch deserves a mention in the set or in set comments?
EDIT: Locking this as it has been added into the SCMS.
i might as well bump this thread since nobody gave jr an answer. i say yes, put focus punch in as an honorable mention. with this nite, things are gonna be switching around quite a bit after they realized it's scarfed. a strong attack like focus punch eases prediction.